Date   

Re: Another slice

al.kresse <water.kresse@...>
 

Mr Weber, are you describing this 91-ton "battleship gon" car?


Al Kresse

On June 18, 2019 at 9:23 AM Bob Webber <rgz17@...> wrote:

Thanks, Mark.   Actually, *most* of the 100 yo stuff is far easier to work with than the 50 yo stuff - the older stuff uses linen - the problem there is that the starch comes out. But it can be ironed.  Then there is the paper used during WW II - very fragile, and used (mostly) by Osgood Bradley (a lot of bus drawings are gone because of it).  Then we come to mylar - where the emulsion flakes off.  Give me linen - even floppy, post-mold linen - any day! 

We don't have issues with brittleness - save for the flat filed Osgood Bradley mentioned. These freight car drawings are now 115 years old - some of them are as clean & crisp as if they were done yesterday - beautiful piece of art. 

When I opened the tube, there were some very high contrast (non-faded) drawings of steel - deep steel - fish belly underframes.  Gorgeous stuff.  Looks like a battleship of the same era.  Lots of big rivets and bolts.

At 07:39 AM 6/18/2019, mark landgraf wrote:
Bob

It's so much fun to work with 100 year old paper.

I've found that high humidity helps temporarily get rid of the brittleness in old paper prints.

Steamtown uses a large steam box that they have. I have used a galvanized steel trash can with a few bricks in the bottom and about an inch of water in the bottom. Loosen up the rolled drawings, set them on the bricks, and place the cover on the can for a few days. Then unroll the damp drawings and place on a tabletop. In couple of hour they are ready for scanning.

At home, I've been known to hang them in the bathroom. After a couple of steamy showers, they are a lot easier to work with.

Mark

Bob Webber


 


 


CRP 89138 65ft steel gon

Andy Carlson
 

Who likes Fireman arriving when your home is on fire? Not me
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Tuesday, June 18, 2019, 5:22:08 PM PDT, Todd Horton via Groups.Io <toddchorton@...> wrote:


Who likes paying taxes ?  Not me
> On Jun 18, 2019, at 4:23 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
>
>
> Richard decorated his car for the CRP, a short lived tax evasion scheme
> (a scheme immortalized in Paul Newman's "Young Philadelphians")
>


Re: CRP 89138 65ft steel gon

Todd Horton
 

Who likes paying taxes ? Not me

On Jun 18, 2019, at 4:23 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net> wrote:


Richard decorated his car for the CRP, a short lived tax evasion scheme
(a scheme immortalized in Paul Newman's "Young Philadelphians")



On 6/18/2019 3:34 PM, mopacfirst wrote:
Twenty plus years after the fact -- I had one of the Precision Scale gons and came up with a photo of it somewhere painted CNJ. There was a Herald King decal set suitable (suitable enough ? I no longer remember) but with all the discussions of 65' gons a few months back I realized I couldn't find whatever it was that prompted me to choose that prototype. Well, here it is, so thank you.

Incidentally, it turns out that the home-built MP 5100-5149 65' gons of 1948 are substantially the same car.

Ron Merrick

--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*



<brass PSC-15474 crp_89065 65ft_gondola 22-rib RichardHendrickson.jpg>


Montour twin hopper M 8014

David
 

According to Gene P. Shaeffer's "The Montour Railroad, M 8000-8099 are ex-C&O cars from C&O 40000-43749, obtained in trade for 111 Montour gondolas in 1937.
For the sake of posterity and search strings, the reference should be to CC&O (Carolina Clinchfield and Ohio), not C&O. The 111 gondolas don't seem to have made it onto the Clinchfield roster.

David Thompson


Re: CRP 89138 65ft steel gon

Tim O'Connor
 

Richard decorated his car for the CRP, a short lived tax evasion scheme
(a scheme immortalized in Paul Newman's "Young Philadelphians")

On 6/18/2019 3:34 PM, mopacfirst wrote:
Twenty plus years after the fact -- I had one of the Precision Scale gons and came up with a photo of it somewhere painted CNJ.  There was a Herald King decal set suitable (suitable enough ?  I no longer remember) but with all the discussions of 65' gons a few months back I realized I couldn't find whatever it was that prompted me to choose that prototype.  Well, here it is, so thank you.

Incidentally, it turns out that the home-built MP 5100-5149 65' gons of 1948 are substantially the same car.

Ron Merrick
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: Rapido USRA 40-ton Boxcar

spsalso
 

Mike,

Thanks for this info.  Fun reading, for certain kinds of people.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: CRP 89138 65ft steel gon

mopacfirst
 

Twenty plus years after the fact -- I had one of the Precision Scale gons and came up with a photo of it somewhere painted CNJ.  There was a Herald King decal set suitable (suitable enough ?  I no longer remember) but with all the discussions of 65' gons a few months back I realized I couldn't find whatever it was that prompted me to choose that prototype.  Well, here it is, so thank you.

Incidentally, it turns out that the home-built MP 5100-5149 65' gons of 1948 are substantially the same car.

Ron Merrick


CRP 89138 65ft steel gon

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
There is a nice view of CRP 89138 65ft steel gon at the link below...
 
 
Click on the image to enlarge it.
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


Re: Another slice

Bob Webber
 

Thanks, Mark.   Actually, *most* of the 100 yo stuff is far easier to work with than the 50 yo stuff - the older stuff uses linen - the problem there is that the starch comes out. But it can be ironed.  Then there is the paper used during WW II - very fragile, and used (mostly) by Osgood Bradley (a lot of bus drawings are gone because of it).  Then we come to mylar - where the emulsion flakes off.  Give me linen - even floppy, post-mold linen - any day! 

We don't have issues with brittleness - save for the flat filed Osgood Bradley mentioned. These freight car drawings are now 115 years old - some of them are as clean & crisp as if they were done yesterday - beautiful piece of art. 

When I opened the tube, there were some very high contrast (non-faded) drawings of steel - deep steel - fish belly underframes.  Gorgeous stuff.  Looks like a battleship of the same era.  Lots of big rivets and bolts.

At 07:39 AM 6/18/2019, mark landgraf wrote:
Bob

It's so much fun to work with 100 year old paper.

I've found that high humidity helps temporarily get rid of the brittleness in old paper prints.

Steamtown uses a large steam box that they have. I have used a galvanized steel trash can with a few bricks in the bottom and about an inch of water in the bottom. Loosen up the rolled drawings, set them on the bricks, and place the cover on the can for a few days. Then unroll the damp drawings and place on a tabletop. In couple of hour they are ready for scanning.

At home, I've been known to hang them in the bathroom. After a couple of steamy showers, they are a lot easier to work with.

Mark

Bob Webber


Re: Another slice

mark_landgraf
 

Bob

It's so much fun to work with 100 year old paper. 

I've found that high humidity helps temporarily get rid of the brittleness in old paper prints. 

Steamtown uses a large steam box that they have. I have used a galvanized steel trash can with a few bricks in the bottom and about an inch of water in the bottom. Loosen up the rolled drawings, set them on the bricks, and place the cover on the can for a few days. Then unroll the damp drawings and place on a tabletop. In couple of hour they are ready for scanning. 

At home, I've been known to hang them in the bathroom. After a couple of steamy showers, they are a lot easier to work with. 

Mark


On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 8:48 PM, Bob Webber
<rgz17@...> wrote:
I scanned a few more tubes - these are a tad earlier - 1904 - 1919 (retracings after 1916).

I bring this up for a number of reasons.

The thread related to cars of 100,000 lbs capacity - of course, isn't germane in the sense that these are steel UF cars, but interesting for all that given the myriad cars of that or greater Cap.
The brake drawings are really interesting, and unlike some later ones, show the out line of cars
A lot of manufacturer & contractor cars
early ish examples of refrigerator & tanks
Several threads of photos & models vonerge in some of these drawings
(Perhaps not surprisingly) several orders for steel UF only

Interesting how "modern" these cars look, even with the very deep sills.  That they are steel (or steel UF) helps but still interesting.

Caveats:
VERY raw, haven't checked for typos
The data is, again, just what's on the drawings' Data Block & Order Info
RR marks are kept as is in most cases
Some of these drawings were kept in tubes in Montreal when a pipe burst, they have the consistency of a 50 yo dollar bill that's been through the wash every day since it was printed
(Will not have time in the next few days to clean up - when I do, it will be added to the web site version of the spread sheet)

Bob Webber


Re: Montour twin hopper M 8014

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Tony, Ben, Garth, David, and List Members,
 
Thanks for the useful and interesting replies.
 
I think I figured out why the car is stencilled DISCO - see link below...
 
 
If the reweigh date really is 1947, then this is indeed a very rare bird, with only enough cars in service that one can count the entire fleet of them on the fingers of both hands!
 
Perhaps these GLa copies were specifically purchased for dedicated service to this one mine for some unknown reason. If the cars were being loaded with coal at the Disco mine, and were also delivering their load of coal to some online destination, then the archbar trucks might not have been an issue since the cars would never leave Montour tracks.
 
Claus Schlund
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Montour twin hopper M 8014

Only 8 cars in this series remained on 1-1-50. I'd also guess that the trucks had been changed by then. Contrast that number of cars to the 1472 USRA cars in the 15000, 16000 and 17000 number series. Tony Wagner

On Monday, June 17, 2019, 7:15:49 PM CDT, Claus Schlund \(HGM\) <claus@...> wrote:


Hi List Members,
 
The Montour twin hopper M 8014 shown closest to the camera in the image linked below has a more-than-slight resemblance to a PRR class GLa hopper - especially the end construction. Does anyone else agree? Was this previously known regarding MONTOUR hoppers?
 
The reweigh date might be 1947, altho it is hard to tell. Note the car is rolling around on archbar trucks - this might be a little uncommon if the reweigh date really is 1947!
 
Is the car stencilled DISCO on the side? If so, does someone know what that indicates?
 
My Dec 1930 ORER does not show this car listed - does anyone know when this hopper was in service?
 
 
Claus Schlund
 
 


Re: Montour twin hopper M 8014

anthony wagner
 

Only 8 cars in this series remained on 1-1-50. I'd also guess that the trucks had been changed by then. Contrast that number of cars to the 1472 USRA cars in the 15000, 16000 and 17000 number series. Tony Wagner

On Monday, June 17, 2019, 7:15:49 PM CDT, Claus Schlund \(HGM\) <claus@...> wrote:


Hi List Members,
 
The Montour twin hopper M 8014 shown closest to the camera in the image linked below has a more-than-slight resemblance to a PRR class GLa hopper - especially the end construction. Does anyone else agree? Was this previously known regarding MONTOUR hoppers?
 
The reweigh date might be 1947, altho it is hard to tell. Note the car is rolling around on archbar trucks - this might be a little uncommon if the reweigh date really is 1947!
 
Is the car stencilled DISCO on the side? If so, does someone know what that indicates?
 
My Dec 1930 ORER does not show this car listed - does anyone know when this hopper was in service?
 
 
Claus Schlund
 
 


Re: Montour twin hopper M 8014

Benjamin Hom
 

Garth Groff wrote:
"The mystery deepens. My October  1958 ORER lists 231 cars in series 8000-8299. Likely the number series was reused for other cars. Maybe. These cars had a 2081 capacity and were rated for 100,000 lbs. Principal dimensions were a 33' inside length, 10' 4" inside width; 34' overall length; 10' 5" height to top of sides; 11' 7" extreme height which could indicate a vertical brake staff or a heap shield.  Does this match dimensions you have?"

No.  M 8000-series dimensions are as David stated, and are characteristic of PRR Class GLA.  According to Gene P. Shaeffer's "The Montour Railroad, M 8000-8099 are ex-C&O cars from C&O 40000-43749, obtained in trade for 111 Montour gondolas in 1937.  (Montour January 1945 ORER entry attached.)

The number series was reused.  M 8000-8299 were rebuilt in 1957 from M 18000-18299, AAR alternate standard offset twins built by Pullman-Standard in 1941.


Ben Hom


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Sunshine B&O M27F

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Nice job, Chuck! That's a great looking model!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chuck Cover
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 7:08 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Sunshine B&O M27F

Mike and Group,



Here are a couple of photos, before dullcote and weathering, of my version of Bob Chapman's B&O M27F kitbash article in RMC. Sorry for no finished photos. It builds into a great model.



Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM


Re: Sunshine B&O M27F

Paul Doggett
 

Tony

Thank you.

Paul Doggett

On 17 Jun 2019, at 20:07, Tony Thompson <tony@signaturepress.com> wrote:

Paul Doggett wrote:

I have just finished a Sunshine B&O M27F it is awaiting light weathering.
Very nice looking car, Paul. Great job.

Tony Thompson
tony@signaturepress.com






Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Sunshine B&O M27F

Paul Doggett
 

Dave Thank you.

Paul Doggett    England


On 17 Jun 2019, at 20:29, Dave Lawler <davelawler@...> wrote:

Paul,
Excellent model of a very unique prototype. Well done!
Dave Lawler
Avon Lake. Ohio


Re: Montour twin hopper M 8014

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Dave and Claus,

The mystery deepens. My October  1958 ORER lists 231 cars in series 8000-8299. Likely the number series was reused for other cars. Maybe. These cars had a 2081 capacity and were rated for 100,000 lbs. Principal dimensions were a 33' inside length, 10' 4" inside width; 34' overall length; 10' 5" height to top of sides; 11' 7" extreme height which could indicate a vertical brake staff or a heap shield.  Does this match dimensions you have?

At that time the Montour operated 1396 cars, all hoppers. There are no interchange restrictions indicated, nor special notes on any of their cars.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 6/17/19 9:30 PM, David via Groups.Io wrote:
The January 1940 ORER shows a series 8000-8099, with a full 100 cars. The inside length is 30'5" and the outside length is 32'3", both characteristic of the Gla design. The 10'2" eaves height and 1732 cf capacity strongly suggest this series is ex-Clinchfield, which dispersed its Gla-type hoppers to a number of secondhand owners around this time. The series was down to 10 cars by 1945.

David Thompson






Re: Sunshine B&O M27F

Paul Doggett
 

Chuck 

That’s really nice.

Paul Doggett 


On 18 Jun 2019, at 00:08, Chuck Cover <chuck.cover@...> wrote:

Mike and Group,

 

Here are a couple of photos, before dullcote and weathering, of my version of Bob Chapman’s B&O M27F kitbash article in RMC.  Sorry for no finished photos.  It builds into a great model.

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM

Attachments:


Montour twin hopper M 8014

David
 

The January 1940 ORER shows a series 8000-8099, with a full 100 cars. The inside length is 30'5" and the outside length is 32'3", both characteristic of the Gla design. The 10'2" eaves height and 1732 cf capacity strongly suggest this series is ex-Clinchfield, which dispersed its Gla-type hoppers to a number of secondhand owners around this time. The series was down to 10 cars by 1945.

David Thompson


Re: Sunshine B&O M27F

Brent Greer
 

I would like to see a copy of that article too !

Brent
________________________________
Dr. J. Brent Greer


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Scott <repairman87@...>
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2019 7:30:59 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Sunshine B&O M27F
 
Does anybody have a copy of the RMC March 2001 article on the kitbash?

Scott McDonald

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