Date   

Freight Car Guru

WILLIAM PARDIE
 


Has anyone stepped up to be the Union Pacific Freight Car Guru since Terry Metcalf left us?  It has been quite a while but he certainly bought a lot of knowledge and passion to the table.

Biil Pardie


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


Re: this nice shot of the GM&O freight house

John Barry
 

Claus,

Think FedEx's Memphis or UPS's Louisville sorting hubs, neither of which has much in local delivery compared to the overall volume. Kansas City was a major rail hub with significant interchange between RRs. LCL cars from all over the GM&O terminated there an their contents were resorted into interchange cars destined to points on connecting lines. A package from Mobile to Albuquerque would have moved through this house to the Santa Fe house at Argentine before entering the Santa Fe LCL system. Only in a minority of markets was there enough traffic to warrent a through car such as the NY car from San Francisco via the Santa Fe and Erie. Through cars to connecting lines were a bit more common skipping the destination sort on the originating line. But most of the transfer LCL got sorted by the delivery road then again by the receiving road. Think trap cars instead of trucks for the cross town moves.

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA


707-490-9696 


PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736

--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 4/29/19, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@hellgatemodels.com> wrote:

Subject: [RealSTMFC] this nice shot of the GM&O freight house
To: "STMFC" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Monday, April 29, 2019, 7:34 PM








Hi List
Members,
 
Consider for a moment this
nice shot of the
GM&O freight house surrounded by steam era freight
cars...
 
https://digital.library.cornell.edu/catalog/ss:20988173
 
I have a question about how
this all works
regarding delivery of goods to the customer. Freight cars
get parked here, they
are unloaded into the freight house by fork lift or hand
truck or elbow grease,
right? Then what? How does the customer get their goods?
Presumably they show up
wuth their comapny truck (or in earlier days, with their
horse-drawn cart). But
I don't see any good street access to the building. Is
it on the side of the
building we cannot see? I'm thinking maybe not, since
there are probably tracks
there.
 
This is not the first time
I've seen freight houses
with what appears to be inadequate or non-existant street
access. How was this
handled? Presumably every inbound carload of items that goes
INTO the freight
house has to leave as well, and it's not leaving in a
freight car,
right?
 
Thoughts?
 
Overall, if you omit the
large yard in the
background, and included only the three tracks in the
foreground with the
building, a scene like this is very model-genic, and could
serve as the focal
point of a very nice switching layout or a fun area of
activity within a larger
layout.
 
Claus Schlund


Re: this nice shot of the GM&O freight house

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 4/29/2019 4:34 PM, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) wrote:
Then what? How does the customer get their goods? Presumably they show up wuth their comapny truck (or in earlier days, with their horse-drawn cart)

    At the left of the warehouse is a road on the back.  You can see a truck there.  I believe the curve of the track there is a allusion you can't see well and the road and loading area is there.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


this nice shot of the GM&O freight house

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
Consider for a moment this nice shot of the GM&O freight house surrounded by steam era freight cars...
 
 
I have a question about how this all works regarding delivery of goods to the customer. Freight cars get parked here, they are unloaded into the freight house by fork lift or hand truck or elbow grease, right? Then what? How does the customer get their goods? Presumably they show up wuth their comapny truck (or in earlier days, with their horse-drawn cart). But I don't see any good street access to the building. Is it on the side of the building we cannot see? I'm thinking maybe not, since there are probably tracks there.
 
This is not the first time I've seen freight houses with what appears to be inadequate or non-existant street access. How was this handled? Presumably every inbound carload of items that goes INTO the freight house has to leave as well, and it's not leaving in a freight car, right?
 
Thoughts?
 
Overall, if you omit the large yard in the background, and included only the three tracks in the foreground with the building, a scene like this is very model-genic, and could serve as the focal point of a very nice switching layout or a fun area of activity within a larger layout.
 
Claus Schlund
 
 


Re: Cornel University collection

Eric Hansmann
 

This avoids setting the points in the street crossing. I’ll have to remember this for a future application.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of James SANDIFER
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2019 5:17 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Cornel University collection

 

Interesting piece of trackwork.

https://digital.library.cornell.edu/catalog/ss:20864642

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave Nelson
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2019 2:56 PM
To: STMFC <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Cornel University collection

 

1655 photographs from the US Presidents railroad commission, all in 1960 (I’m assume 1960 inclusive is out cutoff date). All subjects, incl. freight cars.

 

https://digital.library.cornell.edu/?f%5Bcollection_tesim%5D%5B%5D=U.S.+President%27s+Railroad+Commission+Photographs

 

Enjoy.

 

Dave Nelson

 


Re: NJI&I Boxcar

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Peter,

I don't know the answer to your question, but it would be quite a while. Each of the two cars chained to the floor would have to be unchained, then worked out with a swiveling jack. Then the two cars in the diagonal racks would be lowered, unchained, and likewise worked out the door with the jack. How long might depend on how many men there were to do tasks simultaneously, but I would expect at least an hour or more per boxcar.

The car in question is a apparently in a parts pool, so the above does not apply. If "GM-1" is correct as was suggested, then it probably means "General Motors pool #1". Likely it had racks for some sort of sub-assemblies, say frames, motors, transmissions, body stampings, etc. The ends on this car mark it as 10' IH. This number does not show in my 1958 ORER, and likely post-dates our period, at least as an NJI&I-lettered car.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 4/29/19 5:03 PM, Peter Hall wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how long would it take to load or unload autos into or out of an automobile box car equipped with auto racks, in the 1945-1950 era?

Thanks
Pete

On Apr 29, 2019, at 12:48 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Either an appliance or automobile parts pool assignment. Usually a good indicator that the
car has special equipment or loading devices - could be as simple as pallets that stayed with
the car. In the auto industry the pool assignment stencils were frequently changed.

Tim O'Connor


On 4/29/2019 4:23 AM, Garth Groff wrote:
Friends,

While skimming through the Ed Wilkommen photos, I noted this view which included an NJI&I boxcar: https://www.lakestatesarchive.org/Ed-Wilkommen-Collection/Freight-Cars/i-r5ZmB9k/A . Besides being a rather rare roadname in its own right, I was struck by the initials above the reporting marks. They look like "GN-I" or GH-I". Any comments about what they mean?

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts



Re: grab iron ladders

Bill Welch
 

Although it is a bit oversize I use .010 x .030 styrene strip. Because it can be wiggly I tape in down on cardboard and use a .05 ink pen to mark where the holes should be drilled. I use a Flex-I-File scriber to dimple the styrene gently where I will drill then drill w/.79 bit. After it attached to the end I may apply some sort of attachment like a NBW or harvested rivet. If it is an NBW I will cut that part from the attachment rod and blue directly onto the stile to avoid drilling more holes

Bill Welch


Re: Manufacturers Railway Mather box

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 11:47 AM, Denny Anspach wrote:
Would  this be  the Manufacturer’s Railway reportedly out of St. Louis or the similarly named railroad that switched the Western Electric Hawthorne works in Cicero, IL?  (the latter owned by AT&T?).
Denny, the switching lne in Cicero, IL was the Manufacturers Junction Ry.

Dennis Storzek
 


Re: Cornel University collection

Steve SANDIFER
 

Interesting piece of trackwork.

https://digital.library.cornell.edu/catalog/ss:20864642

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave Nelson
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2019 2:56 PM
To: STMFC <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Cornel University collection

 

1655 photographs from the US Presidents railroad commission, all in 1960 (I’m assume 1960 inclusive is out cutoff date). All subjects, incl. freight cars.

 

https://digital.library.cornell.edu/?f%5Bcollection_tesim%5D%5B%5D=U.S.+President%27s+Railroad+Commission+Photographs

 

Enjoy.

 

Dave Nelson

 


Re: grab iron ladders

Paul Woods <paul@...>
 

Very true; in the full-size world, bits for drilling sheet metal are made as a series of shallow steps gradually getting larger and larger, effectively giving a long, sharply pointed bit.  Unfortunately we don't have drill bits of that type available to us in sizes small enough for our purposes, but there are a couple of ways it can be done.  Clamping the brass strip between two pieces of hardwood will prevent the metal from 'picking up' and distorting, although this is only practical when it is set up as a proper jig with guides to keep everything lined up because it is impossible to see what's going on between the blocks.  It is preferable to have at least a drill press for this, and a mill is ideal.  The other method is to use a rotary burr such as a ball-end, conical or flame-style.  These do not bite into the metal like a spiral drill-bit will, and the neat thing with the tapered styles of burr is you can adjust the diameter of the hole by how far you push them in - the fact that the burr is cutting a tapered hole really doesn't matter when the metal is so thin.  I have used this to get me out of the cactus a few times when I have already glued fine brass strapping detail to a wood-bodied model, only to discover that I had forgotten several holes.  It pays to use a piece of hardwood under the metal for this method if you can, otherwise you can still distort it when pushing on the burr to get it started.  Also, once it is beginning to cut through, back the pressure right off otherwise the sides of the strip where the metal is thinnest will bulge out sideways....sounds like experience talking, dunnit?  Dremel sells a wide range of suitable small burrs, and there are lots of other brands around.  My favourite is Dremel #9909 tungsten carbide cutter, nasty little beast if you accidentally stick it in your finger but by golly it cuts through brass and nickel-silver well.

Regards
Paul Woods
Whangarei, NZ
NYCSHS #7172

>0.005 in. brass would be hard to drill without distortion...."
>
>Nelson Moyer


Re: Manufacturers Railway Mather box

Tony Thompson
 

Denny Anspach wrote:

Would  this be  the Manufacturer’s Railway reportedly out of St. Louis or the similarly named railroad that switched the Western Electric Hawthorne works in Cicero, IL?  (the latter owned by AT&T?).

       The St. Louis one, owned by Anheuser-Busch. I have one of the MRS Mather box cars on my layout, and it delivers animal feed (spent malt) to a local farmer. I know the car is accurate because Richard Henrickson went to a lot of trouble over all the Mather cars.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Cornel University collection

Tim O'Connor
 

Dave

I just assumed everyone knew about this photo collection - many of them are stunning, wonderful, and rare.

They were (mostly?) taken by railroad workers - union members - to document their craft and working conditions.
At the time railroads were trying very hard to downsize crews and eliminate yard jobs.

Tim O'Connor



On 4/29/2019 3:56 PM, Dave Nelson wrote:

1655 photographs from the US Presidents railroad commission, all in 1960 (I’m assume 1960 inclusive is out cutoff date). All subjects, incl. freight cars.

 

https://digital.library.cornell.edu/?f%5Bcollection_tesim%5D%5B%5D=U.S.+President%27s+Railroad+Commission+Photographs

 

Enjoy.

 

Dave Nelson



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: grab iron ladders

gtws00
 

Clark,
On one car I used Pierre's Brass Stiles and bent the outer end as the usual 90 degree L in a Photo Etch Tool. On the inside one I clamped the hole side into a PETool and bent the side without the hole a few times to shear it off. Clean up with a file if needed and you have nice flat piece of brass stock with holes to match the other side.

George Toman


Re: grab iron ladders

Clark Propst
 

This raises the question, how much can you cheat on material dimensions where scale dimensions are too fragile in modeling  practice? There must be a happy medium between Athearn blue box sill steps and scale fidelity.

 Nelson Moyer

Yes, that's my dilemma. I'm not going to use any styrene strip as thin as .010 or 1 scale inch.But, .020" seems too thick to me. I'm thinking .015x.040? I don't have that size, but will be hitting a HS that does in a couple weeks.


Re: NJI&I Boxcar

Peter Hall
 

Just out of curiosity, how long would it take to load or unload autos into or out of an automobile box car equipped with auto racks, in the 1945-1950 era?

Thanks
Pete

On Apr 29, 2019, at 12:48 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Either an appliance or automobile parts pool assignment. Usually a good indicator that the
car has special equipment or loading devices - could be as simple as pallets that stayed with
the car. In the auto industry the pool assignment stencils were frequently changed.

Tim O'Connor


On 4/29/2019 4:23 AM, Garth Groff wrote:
Friends,

While skimming through the Ed Wilkommen photos, I noted this view which included an NJI&I boxcar: https://www.lakestatesarchive.org/Ed-Wilkommen-Collection/Freight-Cars/i-r5ZmB9k/A . Besides being a rather rare roadname in its own right, I was struck by the initials above the reporting marks. They look like "GN-I" or GH-I". Any comments about what they mean?

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: grab iron ladders

O Fenton Wells
 

Yes, yes, yes. It works great and put the grab in and pre drill .020 by .020 and ACC it in place as the left hand style. Then pre drill the .010 by .020 and put one grab in at the top , and straighten the grab with the .010 by .020 and ACC then put the bottom grab in and ACC. The rest of the grand should fall into place. Gluing the grabs in on the .010 by .020 side will glue the right side to the car end.
Fenton

On Apr 29, 2019, at 4:31 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

In Response to Gary Ray’s question the bolt heads wee embossed with a NWSL riveter.

Bill Pardie
On Apr 29, 2019, at 8:22 AM, frograbbit602 via Groups.Io <frograbbit602=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Clark I would use 2x2, I use .020x.020” Evergreen strip styrene, for the stile near the corner and a 1x2 for the other stile, the side toward the center of the car over the corrugation.
Lester Breuer





Re: grab iron ladders

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

In Response to Gary Ray’s question the bolt heads wee embossed with a NWSL riveter.

Bill Pardie

On Apr 29, 2019, at 8:22 AM, frograbbit602 via Groups.Io <frograbbit602=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Clark I would use 2x2, I use .020x.020” Evergreen strip styrene, for the stile near the corner and a 1x2 for the other stile, the side toward the center of the car over the corrugation.
Lester Breuer



Re: Cornel University collection

mopacfirst
 

I looked at Denver, and realized I have photos taken from some of the exact same spots.  Many of the Denver shots were taken from the bridges over the Union Station and yards areas.

The really sobering thought is that the photos I shot in early 70s are now closer in time to when these photos were taken than to the present day, and while there would be some slight differences between what I saw and what these photographers saw, the difference between then and now is so incredibly greater.

Ron Merrick


Re: NJI&I Boxcar

Peter Weiglin
 

Here's the first part of the Wikipedia entry on the New Jersey, Indiana and Illinois Railroad.  It'll be a conversation piee, all right.

Peter Weiglin
= = =

The NJI&I was originally created by the Singer Sewing Machine Company in order to transport their products from South Bend, IN, to a connection with the Wabash Railroad in Pine, Indiana. The line began service in 1905 and officially operated on only 11.4 miles of track. The line ran between South Bend and Pine, Indiana, where it met the Wabash Railroad.

Up until and through World War I the line offered two passenger trains round trip daily to Detroit. In the 1930s passenger service was discontinued. The Wabash had purchased the line in 1926 but continued to operate it as a separate railroad.

The major customers included Singer Manufacturing and The Studebaker Company. The NJI&I continued in service until 1982 when the Norfork Southern absorbed the line. Despite both manufacturers going out of business in the early 1960s and early 1970s, the line continued to operate for several other smaller customers.

The name is derived from the three states Singer had plants in at the time of charter. The railroad was eventually taken over by the Wabash and operated through the Norfolk and Western takeover. The line continued to service several customers until the NS-Conrail takeover allowed NS to access their customers via the former New York Central Chicago line. The line was abandoned and removed in the late 1990s.


Re: grab iron ladders

O Fenton Wells
 

Sorry Nelson, Yes I’m outside smoking dinner (chicken) on my new smoker. 
On my phone my fingers give out. I’ll email you after dinner from my keyboard regarding how I handled end grab ladders
Fenton 


On Apr 29, 2019, at 4:10 PM, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:

Fenton, I think you hit send prematurely. There’s no message from you.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of O Fenton Wells
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2019 3:08 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] grab iron ladders

 

 


On Apr 29, 2019, at 3:31 PM, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:

0.005 in. brass would be hard to drill without distortion, it would be hard to mount grab irons without bending the stiles, and the stiles probably wouldn’t probably hold their shape on the car. Any car handling could completely destroy the ladder. Stainless steel would be a better material for stiles that thin.

 

I had to replace the partial stile castings on several Sunshine SS boxcar kits with HO scale 1 x2 styrene strip material. Stiles for the end ladders had to be drilled for 2, 3, or 4 grab irons depending on car class. Drilling the holes and installing the grab irons was tedious to say the least.

 

This raises the question, how much can you cheat on material dimensions where scale dimensions are too fragile in modeling  practice? There must be a happy medium between Athearn blue box sill steps and scale fidelity.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2019 12:27 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] grab iron ladders

 

The outer stile is 2" x 2" angle, which is pretty common for ladder stiles on freight cars. The inner stile is problematic, as it is 1/4" x 2" flat stock, so should really only be .003" thick in HO scale. .005" thick brass shim stock is likely the best bet.

Dennis Storzek

 

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