Date   

Re: Combing Resin & Styrene

Dave Parker
 

On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 03:50 PM, Jack Burgess wrote:
Assuming that they are Shapeways castings
Er, no.  As Bill said, these are cast resin copies of a 3D (Shapeways) print.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


Re: Combing Resin & Styrene

Jack Burgess
 

Bill…

 

Assuming that they are Shapeways castings, you will need to clean them before using them. Here is what I’ve been using:

 

1. Clean the parts with Simple Green

2. Followed by a quick rinse in warm clean water

3. Then dip them in 95% isopropyl alcohol

4. Air dry

 

Previously I was just using my ultra-sonic cleaner but maybe 25% of my models later developed teeny white spots through the paint. I haven’t seen that problem after I started this protocol but I haven’t used it on very many parts either. I’ve been told that you should paint the parts within two weeks of cleaning but I haven’t done that either but it sounds like a good idea.

 

Jack Burgess

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 2:32 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Combing Resin & Styrene

 

Dr, Dave Campbell sent me a pair of Vulcan ends. These are resin copies of a 3D print and viewing under a good light w/my Optivisor I see no evidence these were printed. They will be combined with a Hutchins roof ripped from a Accurail body, Accurail underframe w/fishbelly centersill, Evergreen car siding and modified Tichy Youngstown door to model Piedmont & Northern #1101.

Bill Welch


Re: Very Nice Model on eBay

Tim O'Connor
 

indeed. do you recognize who made the trucks on the flat car?

On 6/11/2019 12:02 PM, Bill Welch wrote:
Here is a link to what appears to be well done model: https://www.ebay.com/itm/BUILT-HO-F-C-FUNARO-C-NW-200-TON-FLATCAR-3-D-PRINTED-LOAD-RTR-SUNSHINE-MODELS/283507523073?hash=item42025d7e01:g:gZEAAOSw-Rlc-BV7

Bill Welch
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Combing Resin & Styrene

Bill Welch
 

Dr, Dave Campbell sent me a pair of Vulcan ends. These are resin copies of a 3D print and viewing under a good light w/my Optivisor I see no evidence these were printed. They will be combined with a Hutchins roof ripped from a Accurail body, Accurail underframe w/fishbelly centersill, Evergreen car siding and modified Tichy Youngstown door to model Piedmont & Northern #1101.

Bill Welch


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Very Nice Model on eBay

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Very, very nice! I think I have seen a photo of that casting before, but I can't remember where....

Flats or gons with loads; what could be better?

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 12:02 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Very Nice Model on eBay

Here is a link to what appears to be well done model: Blockedhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/BUILT-HO-F-C-FUNARO-C-NW-200-TON-FLATCAR-3-D-PRINTED-LOAD-RTR-SUNSHINE-MODELS/283507523073?hash=item42025d7e01:g:gZEAAOSw-Rlc-BV7

Bill Welch


Re: "Machinist Tools For Modeling, Part 1 - Hand Tools" Clinic ar rent NERPM

Dennis Storzek
 

On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 07:58 AM, vapeurchapelon wrote:
I just don't trust those digital things. I have had two failures with them, both showing real crap at the display after some time of usage. (Don't know the make anymore.) I realized this as the display value was WAAAYYYY off the real value - several mm! But what with errors in the decimal digits?
Now that the list traffic has slowed a bit, might be a good time to comment on this. If industry felt the same as above we'd all be in big trouble, since the same digital technology has been in use for digital machine read-outs and the closed loop feedback on CNC machines for about the last forty years.

I suspect what the display was showing was some form of error code; these things are sophisticated enough to react when they are missing counts and give a display that won't be mistaken for a measurement. In interpretation of the code could likely be found in the documentation that came with the caliper, if there was any. There are two main reasons these displays will throw an error code; the scale is dirty or contaminated with oil or coolant, or the reader was pushed along the scale too fast and the circuitry couldn't keep up with the count. I have that problem with the digital read-out on my optical comparator; the read-out is capable of full four place accuracy, and the stage can be uncoupled from the lead screw for quick positioning, but it needs to be done at moderate speed to keep accurate count. The older way to keep a check on this was the use of index marks at intervals along the scale; if the counter reached the next index mark without counting the proper number of steps, the control would fault to an error code on the assumption that it was missing steps.

Did a little more reading on the Mitutoyo Absolute Digimatics... they claim FOUR scales of different pitches, so placed that any point in its range has a unique address. This eliminates the need to re-zero on power-up, and makes them very resistant to over speed errors. Just a bit more sophistication than the Harbor Freight imports.

Dennis Storzek


Very Nice Model on eBay

Bill Welch
 


waybill resources

Eric Hansmann
 

The Resin Car Works blog takes a look at resources in the latest post. Freight waybills are the focus plus a sneak peek at an upcoming kit.

http://blog.resincarworks.com/resources/



Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy


Re: Carrying Automobiles In Boxcars

Larry Buell
 

Logistics Park – Chicago loads six auto racks at once unless they are articulated, then they load five articulated racks.  This is the equivalent of about ten separated racks connected by bridge plates; all articulated cars I’ve been involved with are tri auto racks.  The yard switcher had to make sure that all automobiles in a group of racks are turned the same direction for unloading.  When I retired in 2018, we had increased paved capacity over 12 years to over 8,000 automobiles to be unloaded and or, in the last couple of years, loaded.

Larry Buell


Re: Occurence of D&RGW boxes - NP Boxcars

Tim O'Connor
 


I'm not sure what the point of all that was, but if the NP was anything like the GN (e.g. box cars for
lumber and forest products, and grain and mill products, and lcl - mostly) then they suffered from the
same box car shortages the GN complains about in every annual report in the 1950's - with numbers.
In effect, the GN was perpetually "lending" about 20% of all of its box cars to foreign railroads.

In other words, if a railroad like NP or GN owns 23,000 box cars, then the number of box cars (of ALL
owners) on its rails - on average - is about 4,600 cars less than 23,000. NP and GN originated longer
distance cargos than average, and when a car goes off line it may cross two or three AAR service
boundaries. And the further away it goes, the longer it takes to come home. Sometimes not for many
months. The per diem net receipts listed in annual reports tells the story.

Tim O'Connor




On 6/10/2019 8:26 PM, np328 wrote:

Regarding NP boxcars, and why Mike can state “and an NP boxcar in every photo”.
    From my own research digging through the NP Corporate files at the Minnesota Historical Society, specifically the files the NP Mechanical files or other files addressing boxcar shortages.   

I'll address the comment on hauling lumber last and give the fleet numbers up front.

First: NP home fleet numbers, about 40K overall in 1940, a number I believe the AAR strongly recommended (carrot and stick) for each railroad based on a number of factors. Something about the term: To protect home car loading requirements, sounds familiar. I know there was a formula for car ownership, per railroad, just don’t know what it was. Perhaps someone within the industry can shed some light.

      Those numbers dropped slightly over time. In 1930 it had been 47K, not including ore cars.

      In 1940, about 23K of the NP fleet were boxcars. Many single and doubled sheathed wood. Wood sheathed boxcars kept in service later than many other railroads.

Given that the industry as a whole was transitioning from thirty six footers to forty footers to fifty foot boxcars, and fifty ton gons to seventy ton gons, makes sense to me that boxcar numbers might drop over the years. 

   

Then almost 7K gons or hoppers, with an overwhelming amount being gons until 1955, then hopper predominated.

Next almost 2600 refrigerator cars. (This does not include the part ownership of MDT and other leasing.)   Perhaps a bit more than you wanted to know. 

    However as I have provided via links and photo postings prior that the NP wooden sheathed cars were kept in very good condition right up to the end, which for the retirement dates of many of those wooden cars, was after the date of this list

Back to boxcars.

       On December 31, 1952, there were 19,191 boxcars. Slightly over 14K were all steel. 4280 were wood sheathed on steel underframe and steel sheathing. 960 were essentially wood cars with only a steel center sill, however wood underframe and rather old.  

       The NP boxcar fleet other than that one quarter was younger (on the average 25 percent younger) than the national fleet. This number comes up again and again in the files researched.
     After decades of research (like many others here) I think that 25 percent younger car life has a lot to do with seeing NP cars all over.

       Of the wooden sheathed older cars and as I have mentioned here before, the NP shops and corporate were very proud of the good maintenance and condition of the Northern Pacific cars.  That I think, was the primary reason these cars went off line and stayed off line for so long. A clean, tight, well maintained boxcar. Isn't that what a shipper wants? And that accounts for the wooden cars being seen again and again in photos. 

Of the above, I do not mean to dismiss the numbers or reasons others have posted.

 I would like to talk more about this here however I think that a presentation for the 2019 Naperville/Lisle RPM and CCB meets is in order and I want to keep some of my powder dry.

     I will present on NP boxcars and some of the rest of the NP fleet cars, also on the major shippers of the NP, and the revenues that these brought home based on early 1950s numbers. Also car loading numbers per industries like lumber, grain, etc. 

Why those?
                 Many of you seem to have purchased recent NP car offerings and the least I can do is to give you avenues to properly model and waybill them.
(And I have nothing to gain financially, perhaps though the interest of mfgrs on further NP offerings.) 

And after CCB I will get the data on-line. 

      Now, of hauling lumber. I'll say a very good guess.

However SP, GN, and MILW all hauled lumber as did the UP.        So why doesn't Mike say " And a GN, MILW, NP, SP, and UP boxcar in every photo" ? 

     I will have the extended trips of five NP boxcars as part of the presentation, many of these lasting over a year off-line. Several of these had no lumber shipping involved, at the start or otherwise.
 
       And routing with all respect to Car Service Rule 2, from studying those five cars - does not seem to apply.   Rule 1 perhaps? 

 The only conclusion I can draw, is the interior and exterior condition of the cars, being kept to high standards made these cars more likely to be diverted. As I had stated in a thread earlier, dealt with the irrational desire in us all to covet good things. And in that, to more likely have a car clerk keep a car local and send it out locally, to please a nearby shipper.  

         The Northern Pacific route was a longer route, West Coast to Midwest, than the later built GN or MILW. They could not state they were the shortest route. They could compete with service though. Keeping the cars in good condition I think (and yes I will admit to a bias) was I believe how they did it.

                                                                            And why Mike could state his corollary about NP boxcars. 

                                                                                                                                                                          James Dick - Roseville, MN



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Occurence of D&RGW boxes - NP Boxcars

np328
 


Regarding NP boxcars, and why Mike can state “and an NP boxcar in every photo”.
    From my own research digging through the NP Corporate files at the Minnesota Historical Society, specifically the files the NP Mechanical files or other files addressing boxcar shortages.   

I'll address the comment on hauling lumber last and give the fleet numbers up front.

First: NP home fleet numbers, about 40K overall in 1940, a number I believe the AAR strongly recommended (carrot and stick) for each railroad based on a number of factors. Something about the term: To protect home car loading requirements, sounds familiar. I know there was a formula for car ownership, per railroad, just don’t know what it was. Perhaps someone within the industry can shed some light.

      Those numbers dropped slightly over time. In 1930 it had been 47K, not including ore cars.

      In 1940, about 23K of the NP fleet were boxcars. Many single and doubled sheathed wood. Wood sheathed boxcars kept in service later than many other railroads.

Given that the industry as a whole was transitioning from thirty six footers to forty footers to fifty foot boxcars, and fifty ton gons to seventy ton gons, makes sense to me that boxcar numbers might drop over the years. 

   

Then almost 7K gons or hoppers, with an overwhelming amount being gons until 1955, then hopper predominated.

Next almost 2600 refrigerator cars. (This does not include the part ownership of MDT and other leasing.)   Perhaps a bit more than you wanted to know. 

    However as I have provided via links and photo postings prior that the NP wooden sheathed cars were kept in very good condition right up to the end, which for the retirement dates of many of those wooden cars, was after the date of this list

Back to boxcars.

       On December 31, 1952, there were 19,191 boxcars. Slightly over 14K were all steel. 4280 were wood sheathed on steel underframe and steel sheathing. 960 were essentially wood cars with only a steel center sill, however wood underframe and rather old.  

       The NP boxcar fleet other than that one quarter was younger (on the average 25 percent younger) than the national fleet. This number comes up again and again in the files researched.
     After decades of research (like many others here) I think that 25 percent younger car life has a lot to do with seeing NP cars all over.

       Of the wooden sheathed older cars and as I have mentioned here before, the NP shops and corporate were very proud of the good maintenance and condition of the Northern Pacific cars.  That I think, was the primary reason these cars went off line and stayed off line for so long. A clean, tight, well maintained boxcar. Isn't that what a shipper wants? And that accounts for the wooden cars being seen again and again in photos. 

Of the above, I do not mean to dismiss the numbers or reasons others have posted.

 I would like to talk more about this here however I think that a presentation for the 2019 Naperville/Lisle RPM and CCB meets is in order and I want to keep some of my powder dry.

     I will present on NP boxcars and some of the rest of the NP fleet cars, also on the major shippers of the NP, and the revenues that these brought home based on early 1950s numbers. Also car loading numbers per industries like lumber, grain, etc. 

Why those?
                 Many of you seem to have purchased recent NP car offerings and the least I can do is to give you avenues to properly model and waybill them.
(And I have nothing to gain financially, perhaps though the interest of mfgrs on further NP offerings.) 

And after CCB I will get the data on-line. 

      Now, of hauling lumber. I'll say a very good guess.

However SP, GN, and MILW all hauled lumber as did the UP.        So why doesn't Mike say " And a GN, MILW, NP, SP, and UP boxcar in every photo" ? 

     I will have the extended trips of five NP boxcars as part of the presentation, many of these lasting over a year off-line. Several of these had no lumber shipping involved, at the start or otherwise.
 
       And routing with all respect to Car Service Rule 2, from studying those five cars - does not seem to apply.   Rule 1 perhaps? 

 The only conclusion I can draw, is the interior and exterior condition of the cars, being kept to high standards made these cars more likely to be diverted. As I had stated in a thread earlier, dealt with the irrational desire in us all to covet good things. And in that, to more likely have a car clerk keep a car local and send it out locally, to please a nearby shipper.  

         The Northern Pacific route was a longer route, West Coast to Midwest, than the later built GN or MILW. They could not state they were the shortest route. They could compete with service though. Keeping the cars in good condition I think (and yes I will admit to a bias) was I believe how they did it.

                                                                            And why Mike could state his corollary about NP boxcars. 

                                                                                                                                                                          James Dick - Roseville, MN 


Re: Occuremce of D&RGW boxes

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Brent and Friends,

According to Jim Eager's COLOR GUIDE, these were originally series 65100-65199, automobile boxcars built in 1939 by Pressed Steel with unusual 6 and 9-foot doors. They initially didn't have auto loaders, but cars did received Evans auto loaders later. Others received Spartan load restrainers for appliances and were numbered into the 60200-60300. 60200-60209 were broken out and modified with Evans DF loaders, and are the nine XML cars identified in my earlier post.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

So what then was the intended purpose of the D&RGW boxcars with the 15' door openings (giving the impression of 3 doors on each side)?

Thanks,
Brent
________________________________
Dr. J. Brent Greer




Re: Sunshine NYC/P&E Steel Hopper Mini-Kit

lrkdbn
 

Andy
Can you contact me at lrkdbn@... re this kit? I am definitely interested!
Larry King


Re: Occuremce of D&RGW boxes

Brent Greer
 

So what then was the intended purpose of the D&RGW boxcars with the 15' door openings (giving the impression of 3 doors on each side)?

Thanks,
Brent
________________________________
Dr. J. Brent Greer


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Mark Hemphill via Groups.Io <markwmhemphill@...>
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 11:47:12 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Occuremce of D&RGW boxes
 
D&RGW origin traffic wasn't favorable to its boxcars traveling broadly:

  • Very little manufacturing in its territory, and practically no manufactured goods that were suitable for boxcars. Its major manufacturers were CF&I, which was mostly a rail and wire mill, and USS Geneva, which was a hot-rolled coil, slab, welded pipe, and structural shape mill. CF&I couldn't compete effectively east of the Rocky Mountain rate territory because it was pushing into the market basins of midwestern mills, so its product was almost entirely consumed in the Rocky Mountain states. Other manufacturing largely consisted of canned goods -- also mostly consumed locally, and mining machinery, also mostly consumed locally.
  • Relatively small lumber originations, compared to railroads serving the west coast. Colorado and Utah are too high, too cold, and too dry for there to have been large commercial timber stands on the scale of California, Oregon, Washington, Idaho, and Montana.
  • Wool was a commodity favorable for boxcars. But not huge volumes.
  • Mineral concentrates and ores. These commonly shipped in boxcars until the 1960s. Most of the smelters and refineries receiving these ores were in Oklahoma, Illinois, and Texas.
  • Coal was VERY commonly shipped in boxcars from D&RGW mines until the 1960s. It's unusual to see a photograph of a coal mine with only open-top cars present. Typically the high-value lump grades for domestic heating were shipped in boxcars, and the slack and mine-run grades consumed as locomotive fuel, for coking, or for industrial fuel shipped in open-top cars. But again, the domestic heating market was regional. D&RGW coal competed effectively about as far east as Salina, Kansas, then started pushing into the market basin of the mines in southeastern Kansas and eastern Oklahoma. Similarly, about as far east as Grand Island, Nebraska, then pushing into the market basin of Iowa and Missouri mines. New Mexico markets were served by Raton Field mines, Wyoming by Hanna and Rock Springs field mines, and so forth.
I've put a lot of effort into trying to reverse-engineer train lists on D&RGW trains in the 1950s and 1960s (actual train lists are almost non-existent) and there aren't even very many home-road boxcars in their own trains outside of MofW service. Not until the early to mid-1960s, when D&RGW could start earning money from car-hire on RBLs and XMLs in assigned services, was there incentive to start purchasing boxcars. And most of those cars didn't see home rails very often.

Mark Hemphill


Re: Carrying Automobiles In Boxcars

Brian Termunde
 

Thanks Bob! Yet another one of your gems. Thanks, as always, for sharing.

Take Care,
 
Brian R. Termunde
Midvale, Utah

Carrying Automobiles In Boxcars 
From: Bob Chaparro
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2019 11:04:54 PDT 
Many vintage (and more modern) photos from the Industrial History Blog:
Bob Chaparro
HemetCA


Re: Occuremce of D&RGW boxes

Tony Thompson
 

Steve Hoxie wrote:

Missing from this thread is mention of the doctrine I have read on this list for many years: unless in assigned service, i.e., Cookie Boxes, all railroad boxcars should be treated as a national fleet. Any railroad's boxcar can be routed from anywhere to anywhere then reloaded again without any requirement to back haul to the home road.

    Broadly true, Steve, but there did exist Car Service Rules, which surveys found in the early 1950s to be obeyed about two-thirds of the time. So although a box car COULD be routed anywhere, usually it was routed in accord with Car Service Rules. Still a free-running car, but not equally likely to go just ANYWHERE.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Standard Steel Freight Cars - Experiment (co

mark_landgraf
 

Dan

I can sympathize with your efforts. I'm currently dealing with 75000 line spreadsheet dealing with Alco Photos. Additionally I'm dealing with 38,000 freight car images. Organization is important. Please continue this effort. 

As some of the others have said, please add columns for:
Reporting Marks (w/o spaces)
Car type - Box, Hopper, Flat, Gondola, etc
Year Delivered
Quantity of cars in order
Length in feet
Order Number - if that mfr used them
Tons of Load / Lbs of Load
Scanned or on Linen or Paper

When you have the ability to filter by some of the above fields, finding things gets a lot easier, for you and for us. However you do need to fill in those fields. 

I would recommend that you save to an uncompressed tiff file. As others have said, compression methods come and go. Best not to use any. Hard drive space is cheap. Many of my images are 250 megs. Scanning to bitmap is horrible. It does not allow you to brighten up those dark corners.  

I don't recall seeing if you are scanning to grey scale or what dpi you are using. Please advise. 

Mark Landgraf


On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 11:04 PM, Jeff Eggert
<ophoto@...> wrote:
Thanks for sharing this.  A possible solution for those with trouble with XLSX files is to look into LibreOffice. https://www.libreoffice.org/  This programs opens seemingly everything, even some old Microsoft files the current Office suite won't open.  Its free and my go to program when Excel doesn't like the file.  Besides some features a data file like this will never use, the XLSX file version is usually about 1/3 the size as an XLS file.  Makes a big difference for larger files.

The following may get a bit detailed for this list, but I think the larger audience may find interest.

In some discussions with the BRHS, and while going though our photo spreadsheet at the CNWHS Archives, I ran into similar standardization concerns.  While we had a standardized set of fields, the data within those fields was clearly entered by many individuals over the years.  Exactly how you described ATSF variants, I saw everything from town and name spellings for common places which didn't even match.  Someday a mass sorting will need to fix and align all these similar to what you may be thinking.

Reporting marks with non-letter characters have always caused problems in the digital world.  Maybe not when we use our eyes to look at a digitized photo from 100 years ago, but the computer doesn't "gloss over" that & or a period when entered as data.  As Dan suggested the & has purpose certainly for the era.  From a pure sortation standpoint, any non-letter character or space will cause things to sort how people entered them (and why I try to ban them from my personal files as data).  You could create a validated table similar to what is done on RailCarPhotos for their various search functions.  https://www.railcarphotos.com/CountReportingMarks.php  Things get fun when trying to decide on a sterilized list of builders since some changed their name over the years.

Lastly circling back to the photo spreadsheet - instead of manually renaming 25,000 photo filenames to let them sort in a researcher friendly fashion, I let the computer rename them using the spreadsheet data.  During that process I found all sorts of unacceptable characters entered in odd places such as the & which don't play nice in filenames.  The lesson to me was that the data cleanliness really shows up when you go to use it.

Jeff Eggert


Re: Best way to cut Plano metal roof walks

 

Chuck, i did find the link to the item I mentioned to you in yesterday's message:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0184VNMZ6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

They do an excellent job, and according to Keith at Plano, the same  pair has lasted him for many years.

Dave Strahlendorf
Erlanger, Ky


Re: Brake Housings

Bill Hoss <wlhoss@...>
 

Has anyone been able to contact the new owners?  Multiple emails and phone messages and no response.

Bill Hoss




On Monday, June 10, 2019 Bill Welch <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> wrote:

Maybe the new owners of Grandt Line will be willing to repair the tooling on their AB brake set. For my money it is the best detailed around.

Bill Welch


Re: Brake Housings

Bill Welch
 

Maybe the new owners of Grandt Line will be willing to repair the tooling on their AB brake set. For my money it is the best detailed around.

Bill Welch

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