Date   

Re: White material protruding from car doors.

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Hi Dennis,

    As we both know, you aren't that much younger than me so I'm surprised it was your grandmother that kept the printed cotton
flour bags rather than your mother. Perhaps your grandmother had access to them and your mother did not. In any case in the
postwar years into the early 1950's a lot of types of grain were bagged in calico cotton bags. I know that chick feed, pig feed and 
calf feed was but not the coarser dairy and horse feeds. It was more that were made from these bags and it was always interesting
to see a farm wife looking for a particular pattern on a bag of feed because she didn't have enough cloth of that particular pattern for
something she wished to make. My own sister had nice dresses made from this material and so did several of my elementary school
classmates that came from farm families. I wish we had those days back now for dairymen. We are down to only 750 farms left in
Vermont when we used to have more than that in one county. To keep Mike happy I should mention that the vast majority of feed
stocks in those days was delivered to the destination area from the grain mills by rail. The Processed In Transit rates applied to
both the raw grains moving by rail to the feed mills, of which we had many in Vermont in those years, and shipment of the finished
grain to the local dealer as well. In the early 1960's I used to help a close friend deliver two 40 ft. boxcar loads of grain shipped from
the H. K Webster (Blue Seal Feeds) plant that is right tight to the Canadian Border in Richford, VT to the public delivery track in 
Waterbury every other Monday and Tuesday afternoon, once he was done with his milk (in 40 qt. cans) route in the morning. The 
H. K. Webster mill was switched by the CPR but much of the grain was taken only two miles to the interchange with the Central 
Vermont's Missisquoi Valley Branch.

My best, Don Valentine


Re: White material protruding from car doors.

np328
 

Ed,
           thank you for relaying your experiences. 
After seeing what you wrote, I looked back and in the first photo, seen underneath the open door are remnants of bags.
Broken bags appear to be on the floor on the right side of the doorway in the boxcar.                              Jim 


Re: White material protruding from car doors.

np328
 

Beans or Sugar from a flour mill?  Not likely.  
I would offer milling by-products that could be shipped as farm feed.
Google up    flour mill by-products      and find a listing, however as to what is really in the other bags is just a guess.    Jim Dick 


Re: RI 133510 from flour loading topic

Schleigh Mike
 

Nice photo of RI 133510!

Rock Island 133000-133999 are "B-2" cars from Bett. Co. (first 500) and AC&F (second 500).  All had Murphy radial roofs, Dreadnaught ends, and were built in 1927.  The first group had AJAX handrakes and the second Klassing Universal W-2000.  Westerfield referred to them as Fowler "clones" but never got to produce them or the slightly earlier 157500-158699.  Both cars had side designs very similar to the 1915 era cars Al did produce which gives pause to consider these as kit bashing input.

The 133000 cars have been under consideration by at least one other resin kit producer.

Regards from Grove City, Penna.

On Wednesday, April 3, 2019, 12:38:32 PM EDT, mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...> wrote:


Great shot of this Rock Island boxcar from the series on flour loading --

http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsa/8a04000/8a04500/8a04505v.jpg

My question is, what is it, detail-wise?  I'm not home to look up this series, but I can check the Sunshine list online and it's broadly similar to the 140000 series, same door, perhaps same roof, probably same or similar size, can't see the ends.  Only obvious difference is the diagonals point the opposite way.  Yes, one is Howe and one is Pratt but I haven't needed to tell the difference in my professional life since I finished my static analysis class in 1970.

Anyway, is there an easily achievable model of this car in HO?

Ron Merrick


Re: White material protruding from car doors.

Gary Ray
 

My mother grew up in the Texas Panhandle (Wellington) in the 1930’s.  She told me how she would trade flour bags with print patterns with other girls to get enough to make dresses.  She has lots of stories about growing up during the depression on her dad’s farm.  Even wrote a short book about it.  I’m blessed that she is still here at 93 sharing her recollections.

 

Gary Ray

Magalia, CA

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2019 5:57 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] White material protruding from car doors.

 

They were "one and don" except the cloth went on to many secondary uses; a major source of rags and industrial wipes. Used bags made good aprons, any housewife could do it with a bit of sewing. At one time some bags were even printed with a pattern to encourage this. I recall finding a stash of these bags when I cleaned out my grandmother's house.

Dennis Storzek


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: White material protruding from car doors.

Tim O'Connor
 

Not all of the photos appear to show the same bags. Could some be beans, or sugar?

Tim O'

On 4/3/2019 8:19 AM, Edward wrote:
The white material is canvas, which covered the side and end walls of the box car.
This was to keep cloth flour bags clean and protect them from snagging on anything that could rip them.
The floor was similarly covered to protect the flour bags and keep them clean.
Bagged flour weighed 100 lbs. In cloth bags it was tricky to handle or carry.
Picked up the wrong way, a bag could sometimes tear in half.
Oddly, multi-layered paper bags that replaced cloth in the 1950's was more forgiving.

Ed Bommer
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: RI 133510 from flour loading topic

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 4/3/2019 9:38 AM, mopacfirst wrote:
My question is, what is it, detail-wise? 

    I find it interesting that the weight decals are not in alignment.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


RI 133510 from flour loading topic

mopacfirst
 

Great shot of this Rock Island boxcar from the series on flour loading --

http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsa/8a04000/8a04500/8a04505v.jpg

My question is, what is it, detail-wise?  I'm not home to look up this series, but I can check the Sunshine list online and it's broadly similar to the 140000 series, same door, perhaps same roof, probably same or similar size, can't see the ends.  Only obvious difference is the diagonals point the opposite way.  Yes, one is Howe and one is Pratt but I haven't needed to tell the difference in my professional life since I finished my static analysis class in 1970.

Anyway, is there an easily achievable model of this car in HO?

Ron Merrick


Re: Throwback Tuesday: Ulrich GS Gon Ad, Model Railroader, October 1959

Bill Decker
 

Amen Ben!  LOTS of lumber--particularly cants in GS goes.  For me, they are sent up the Cascade "Hill."  i have been looking at a photo shot at Wicopee (middle of the climb up the Cascades) as I study the Wicopee station site for modeling.  The photo in question is shot on a GS got loaded with lumber cants (rough-sawn, about 6x6 or so) loaded above the gon sides with side stakes and cross ties per the AAR loading diagrams for open car loading.  Prime Douglas Fir from the forests of Oregon!

Bil Decker
McMinnville, OR


Re: Photo Study: Lackawanna Gondola 67198

Bob Chaparro
 

You are very welcome, Don.
I probably spend too much time looking at old photos but occasionally I do find gems like these that I know a few modelers may want to run with.
Also, I have a number of PowerPoint presentations I do at train meets and conventions that benefit from good photo examples of cars, car details, infrastructure, etc. so some of these photos fit my needs as well.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: White material protruding from car doors.

Dennis Storzek
 

They were "one and don" except the cloth went on to many secondary uses; a major source of rags and industrial wipes. Used bags made good aprons, any housewife could do it with a bit of sewing. At one time some bags were even printed with a pattern to encourage this. I recall finding a stash of these bags when I cleaned out my grandmother's house.

Dennis Storzek


Re: White material protruding from car doors.

Stic Harris
 

Ed, do you know if they reused the cloth flour bags? Or were they one and done?

Thanks,

Stic Harris

On Wed, Apr 3, 2019 at 8:19 AM Edward <edb8391@...> wrote:
The white material is canvas, which covered the side and end walls of the box car.
This was to keep cloth flour bags clean and protect them from snagging on anything that could rip them.
The floor was similarly covered to protect the flour bags and keep them clean.
Bagged flour weighed 100 lbs. In cloth bags it was tricky to handle or carry.
Picked up the wrong way, a bag could sometimes tear in half.
Oddly, multi-layered paper bags that replaced cloth in the 1950's was more forgiving.

Ed Bommer 



--


- Stic


Re: White material protruding from car doors.

Edward
 

The white material is canvas, which covered the side and end walls of the box car.
This was to keep cloth flour bags clean and protect them from snagging on anything that could rip them.
The floor was similarly covered to protect the flour bags and keep them clean.
Bagged flour weighed 100 lbs. In cloth bags it was tricky to handle or carry.
Picked up the wrong way, a bag could sometimes tear in half.
Oddly, multi-layered paper bags that replaced cloth in the 1950's was more forgiving.

Ed Bommer 


White material protruding from car doors.

np328
 

   A while ago, I recall a string about a closed door boxcar with white material protruding from the doors with the query - what could it be? 
Was that ever resolved?  

    While looking over some photos one prompted an "a-ha" moment.    
For those who care to see, lots to study. Car chalking, switch tags, a RI and M&StL car.  An example to model of a car being loaded. 
First photo and second give evidence of what I think was the white material seen.    
Library of Congress - John Vachon - 1939 - I do not recall these being photos discussed here prior.   

http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsa/8a04000/8a04700/8a04764v.jpg
http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsa/8a04000/8a04700/8a04759v.jpg
http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsa/8a04000/8a04700/8a04765v.jpg
http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsa/8a04000/8a04700/8a04760v.jpg
http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsa/8a04000/8a04500/8a04504v.jpg
http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsa/8a04000/8a04500/8a04505v.jpg
http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsa/8a04000/8a04500/8a04503v.jpg
No Pillsbury doughboy seen anywhere. 
  
First photo - upper left of the door - "New plastic roof"  (?) 
First three photos - that white material seen prior - could this be it? 
Photos five and six - look how TIGHT the side sheathing is. No deep grooves. 
Last photo - all the chalk marks.                                              

       Photos taken at Pillsbury A mill in old St. Anthony Main area of Twin Cities. In the future well beyond the time line of this list, the tracks the cars are on will be torn out, concrete poured,  then rails set in place with concrete poured up to the railhead height to give "historic atmosphere".  The mills will be refurbished into condos where if you have to ask "how much?" well..... yes... that much. 

And in the future beyond this lists time I will walk around here with my wife from time to time on the Mississippi river front over looking where once St. Anthony Falls fell and Jim Hill built his stone arch bridge and we will duck into a nice café overlooking over the river.                                                                      Jim Dick - St. Paul 

As a modeling note, I think I need to add some white material, perhaps thin plastic....around some boxcars shipping flour.  

                 Print this one and post it by the freight house: http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/cph/3g00000/3g07000/3g07900/3g07903v.jpg



Re: reporting marks for the 40ft single sheathed auto box car

Benjamin Hom
 

Andy Carlson wrote:
"But the out-of-the box thinking of turning it into a 40' car, that I like!!! Reminds me of the Mainline Modeler NP GS kit bash of swapping left and right pieces of the sides to correct the truss arrangement. This is what makes this hobby fun."

It's actually one of John Nehrich's ideas.  With an eye towards building a Wabash 40 ft SS automobile car, he turned a MDC 50 ft SS auto boxcar into a flat kit, then removed the side sill reinforcement under the doors and cut out a diagonal on either side of the door to make 40 ft sides.  I don't know if he finished the model, but it was on the way towards being a credible model of the prototype at a time when the Funaro model was no longer available.


Ben Hom 


Re: reporting marks for the 40ft single sheathed auto box car

Benjamin Hom
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
"You're probably right about the Walthers end doors, but some hinges did stick out a bit."

The hinges on the Walthers car are comical, and with the lack of heavy frame around the door, would rip out of the corner post once the door is opened.


Ben Hom


Re: reporting marks for the 40ft single sheathed auto box car

Tim O'Connor
 


You're probably right about the Walthers end doors, but some hinges did stick out a bit.

Tim O'


On 4/2/2019 8:04 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
Ralph Brown asked:
"Do you happen to know the Walthers item number for that car?  The replacement end with end doors has piqued my interest." 

Steve Hile replied:
"try this
https://www.ebay.com/itm/WALTHERS-932-5853-NORTHERN-PACIFIC-50-BOXCAR-4912-KIT-HO-SCALE/382862829884?hash=item592467293c:g:I74AAOSwqoxb9bDb  

Secondary market is your best bet - as far as I know, Walthers hasn't reissued this model yet.  The end door is one of the worst features of this kit - it lacks the heavy frame normally seen on these prototypes and features some unprototypical large protruding hinges. 


Ben Hom


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: reporting marks for the 40ft single sheathed auto box car

Tim O'Connor
 


30 years and 2 days before I was born...


On 4/2/2019 5:22 PM, Eric Lombard wrote:
Gents, That car is from NJI&I 2000-2149 built ACF Lot 9553, 1923. they had an inside height of 10-6. ACF builder photos are available on the Westerfield ACF photos disk.

On Tue, Apr 2, 2019 at 2:12 PM Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:
Claus Schlund asked:
"Any thoughts on the reporting marks for the 40ft single sheathed auto box car shown in the image linked below? The resolution is just not quite good enough..."
https://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Records/Image/IM86520    

Tony Wagner replied"
"NJI&I, a subsidiary of the Wabash, possibly 3500-3599 1 car in my 1-1-50 ORER. I'd guess its a clone of several thousand WAB cars in various 40000 thru 49000 number series  with 11' or 12' doors as both ordinary XM box cars or XAR auto or XME and XAP auto parts cars."

That's what I thought at first, but the Wabash cars all had radial roofs and the car in the photo has a peaked roof.
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/wabssautomain.html 

That got my interest as it appears to be an opportunity to use that fantasy HO scale Walthers 50 ft auto boxcar for something by cutting out a set of diagonals shortens the model to the neighborhood of 40 ft.  The ends will need to be replaced, which isn't too difficult, especially as the kit is engineered with a separate A end to allow swapping a solid end or end door.


Ben Hom


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: reporting marks for the 40ft single sheathed auto box car

Benjamin Hom
 

Ralph Brown asked:
"Do you happen to know the Walthers item number for that car?  The replacement end with end doors has piqued my interest." 

Steve Hile replied:
"try this
https://www.ebay.com/itm/WALTHERS-932-5853-NORTHERN-PACIFIC-50-BOXCAR-4912-KIT-HO-SCALE/382862829884?hash=item592467293c:g:I74AAOSwqoxb9bDb  

Secondary market is your best bet - as far as I know, Walthers hasn't reissued this model yet.  The end door is one of the worst features of this kit - it lacks the heavy frame normally seen on these prototypes and features some unprototypical large protruding hinges. 


Ben Hom


Re: Live Poultry Transportation Company Memohead

Rob M.
 
Edited

Interesting. The Memohead must be post-1901 since it has an "Automatic" telephone number for the Chicago exchange.   Automatic Electric was related to the Illinois Telephone and Telegraph and the Chicago Freight Tunnel company and the phone cable justification for the 40' below tunnel system.  

Interesting early stuff for LPT and the seemingly early emphasis on shrinkage of slaughtered carcass.

Rob Mondichak

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