Date   

B&O N-10 hopper cars

Tim O'Connor
 


Here is a series of archived conversations from the original FREIGHTCARS list.

============ 10-14-2002

B&O 124000-126999 were class N-10 and N-10a, 24000-24999 and 127000-130019
were N-10b, 233800-234199 were ex-Jamison 1300-1699 N-10d, and 325000-
325999 were N-10e. What happened to N-10c?

And why did B&O reorder the old N-10 design in 1921? B&O's preferred
hopper in the Teens was the side-dump N-13, then they backtracked to the
N-12 by the thousands in the early and mid-1920s.

David Thompson email

============ 10-15-2002

   > B&O 124000-126999 were class N-10 and N-10a, 24000-24999 and 127000-130019 were N-10b,
   > 233800-234199 were ex-Jamison 1300-1699 N-10d, and 325000-325999 were N-10e. What happened
   > to N-10c? And why did B&O reorder the old N-10 design in 1921? B&O's preferred hopper in
   > the Teens was the side-dump N-13, then they backtracked to the N-12 by the thousands in
   > the early and mid-1920s. David Thompson

And Eric Neubauer replied

   > Two possible reasons. Certain shippers or customers may have required that size, or the size
   > was restricted because of reused components from earlier cars.

Then Bob Witt writes

The reasons the B&O ordered more Class N-10 in the 1920s is not known.  Chris Barkan and I have
speculated, but that is all we have.  Eric reasons are valid.  Another possibility is that earlier
some N-10s were built for private coal companies, and may be this group of cars originally were
ordered by a coal company to the old design.  The date of delivery (~1921) could be one of those
times the advantages for owning coal cars by private coal companies was removed by the ICC
(per Al Westerfield's article), and the B&O took delivery after the coal company no longer wanted them.

I am just beginning to research the ownership of B&O design coal cars by private coal companies.
Hopefully I will have more information in another year.

I have reasonably complete set of clearance diagrams for B&O hopper cars.  I will check on the
N-10c this evening.

Bob Witt email

============ 10-15-2002

In looking over the B&O equipment summaries, they ordered 1000 of each in 1921 for 1922 delivery:
N-10e 325000-325999 and N-12f 326000-326999. The N-10e was split evenly between PSC and SSC, the
N-12f between BC&F and Cambria, and both were "rebodies" of the ca.1900 N-8 and N-9 PSC fishbelly
hoppers, reusing the old Vogt trucks. Perhaps B&O wanted to see if one design or the other offered
an advantage for "rebodying" work?

David Thompson email

==========================

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


More eBay listings

Clark Propst
 


Lehigh Model Products kits

Eric Mumper
 

Group,

Three old Lehigh Model Products kits came into my possession and I would like to find a good home for them at the Chicago RPM if anyone is interested.  The first is labeled "Merchants Despatch" on the end.  The second is a 40ft. AAR type box car lettered Seaboard and includes two bottles of paint.  The third just says Lackawanna, but is a similar box car.  These kits appear to be complete and would like to find a loving home for cars from "the good old days."

Eric Mumper


IRC 70T Barber trucks

Eric Mumper
 

Group,

As progress moves forward on detailing Intermountain 1958cuft covered hoppers, I have 10 pair of the 70T Barber S-2 spring plank trucks available for a worthy home.  Find me at the Chicago RPM and they can be yours for cheap.

Eric Mumper


Re: prototype for this covered hopper model?

Tom Madden
 

Looks like a shadow from the roof overhang. You can see the same thing on the CNJ car to the right.

Tom Madden


Re: B&O 5470

rwitt_2000
 

I didn't sign my last post - Bob Witt


Re: prototype for this covered hopper model?

 

Note the curve in the top of the sidewall & ribs of the Erie one but not the model. "Close but no cigar"?
Andy Jackson
Santa Fe Springs CA



Re: B&O 5470

rwitt_2000
 

Jim  and all,

A quick comment these hoppers were leased from CNJ. B&O typically did not assign a class to leased equipment. The Summary of Equipment listed them as "CNJ" . It would not be a class N-10.

I will have to check my notes, but there were at lease two different leases. Chris Barkan wrote an article for the B&O Sentinel based upon memos describing the various leases and what hoppers were included and the number series. The later leases included some fishbelly side sill hoppers.


Re: prototype for this covered hopper model?

George Eichelberger
 

Appears to be Pecos River Brass by John Smith from 70s. Box says “rebuilt”. From PRB I suspect a Santa Fe prototype?

Ike


Re: B&O 5470

James E Kubanick
 

Thank you, Paul.

Jim

On Monday, October 15, 2018, 11:10:44 AM EDT, James E Kubanick <jekuban@...> wrote:


Peter,

The stirrups were those supplied in the kit. To me, the look like Tichy or Detail Associates. They are made of Delrin.

Jim

On Monday, October 15, 2018, 10:58:06 AM EDT, Paul Doggett via Groups.Io <paul.doggett2472@...> wrote:


Stunning modelling Jim the weathering is absolutely great.

Paul Doggett England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 15 Oct 2018, at 15:49, Peter Ness <prness@...> wrote:

Very nice build, Jim.  I like what you’ve done with the interior! May I ask what you used for stirrup steps?

 

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of James E Kubanick
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2018 10:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] B&O 5470

 

I have just completed a build of F&C kit # 6761, B&O 9 Panel Hopper. This kit has a one piece body casting, so it was not a particularly difficult build, for a hopper. I followed the kit instructions in building the car and fitted it with TMW Andrews trucks and Kadee code 88 wheelsets. Paint is Scalecoat Engine Black and Testor's Dullcoat. Weathering is a thinned coat of Scalecoat  Flat Grime #1 followed with various Pan Pastel colors. Decals are the original F&C - Not entirely satisfactory.

The F&C data sheet says these cars were built for the CNJ and were a stretched version of the 1905 standard hopper design.CNJ ordered 2000 of these cars in 1920, followed by orders for additional cars. Beginning in 1940, AB brakes replaced the original K brakes and 978 of the upgraded cars were leased to the B&O at that time. B&O numbered them into their 5460 - 5534 series. I could not find a B&O class number for these cars and the instruction sheet photos only shows the designation *HM". The decal sheet has N-10 printed on it but this is incorrect, I believe. These cars had a long life as the B&O rebuilt, and renumbered, them in the mid-1950's.

This is an interesting version of a rib side hopper due to the extra side panel which results in the apex of the center slope sheets being placed in the center of the center panel rather than the normal placement at the center rib.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV


Re: B&O 5470

James E Kubanick
 

Peter,

The stirrups were those supplied in the kit. To me, the look like Tichy or Detail Associates. They are made of Delrin.

Jim

On Monday, October 15, 2018, 10:58:06 AM EDT, Paul Doggett via Groups.Io <paul.doggett2472@...> wrote:


Stunning modelling Jim the weathering is absolutely great.

Paul Doggett England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 15 Oct 2018, at 15:49, Peter Ness <prness@...> wrote:

Very nice build, Jim.  I like what you’ve done with the interior! May I ask what you used for stirrup steps?

 

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of James E Kubanick
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2018 10:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] B&O 5470

 

I have just completed a build of F&C kit # 6761, B&O 9 Panel Hopper. This kit has a one piece body casting, so it was not a particularly difficult build, for a hopper. I followed the kit instructions in building the car and fitted it with TMW Andrews trucks and Kadee code 88 wheelsets. Paint is Scalecoat Engine Black and Testor's Dullcoat. Weathering is a thinned coat of Scalecoat  Flat Grime #1 followed with various Pan Pastel colors. Decals are the original F&C - Not entirely satisfactory.

The F&C data sheet says these cars were built for the CNJ and were a stretched version of the 1905 standard hopper design.CNJ ordered 2000 of these cars in 1920, followed by orders for additional cars. Beginning in 1940, AB brakes replaced the original K brakes and 978 of the upgraded cars were leased to the B&O at that time. B&O numbered them into their 5460 - 5534 series. I could not find a B&O class number for these cars and the instruction sheet photos only shows the designation *HM". The decal sheet has N-10 printed on it but this is incorrect, I believe. These cars had a long life as the B&O rebuilt, and renumbered, them in the mid-1950's.

This is an interesting version of a rib side hopper due to the extra side panel which results in the apex of the center slope sheets being placed in the center of the center panel rather than the normal placement at the center rib.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV


Re: B&O 5470

Paul Doggett
 

Stunning modelling Jim the weathering is absolutely great.

Paul Doggett England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 15 Oct 2018, at 15:49, Peter Ness <prness@...> wrote:

Very nice build, Jim.  I like what you’ve done with the interior! May I ask what you used for stirrup steps?

 

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of James E Kubanick
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2018 10:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] B&O 5470

 

I have just completed a build of F&C kit # 6761, B&O 9 Panel Hopper. This kit has a one piece body casting, so it was not a particularly difficult build, for a hopper. I followed the kit instructions in building the car and fitted it with TMW Andrews trucks and Kadee code 88 wheelsets. Paint is Scalecoat Engine Black and Testor's Dullcoat. Weathering is a thinned coat of Scalecoat  Flat Grime #1 followed with various Pan Pastel colors. Decals are the original F&C - Not entirely satisfactory.

The F&C data sheet says these cars were built for the CNJ and were a stretched version of the 1905 standard hopper design.CNJ ordered 2000 of these cars in 1920, followed by orders for additional cars. Beginning in 1940, AB brakes replaced the original K brakes and 978 of the upgraded cars were leased to the B&O at that time. B&O numbered them into their 5460 - 5534 series. I could not find a B&O class number for these cars and the instruction sheet photos only shows the designation *HM". The decal sheet has N-10 printed on it but this is incorrect, I believe. These cars had a long life as the B&O rebuilt, and renumbered, them in the mid-1950's.

This is an interesting version of a rib side hopper due to the extra side panel which results in the apex of the center slope sheets being placed in the center of the center panel rather than the normal placement at the center rib.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV


Re: prototype for this covered hopper model?

Ted Culotta
 

I have decals for the Erie cars:

Resin Car Works has Owens Duraglas decals.

Cheers


Re: B&O 5470

Peter Ness
 

Very nice build, Jim.  I like what you’ve done with the interior! May I ask what you used for stirrup steps?

 

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of James E Kubanick
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2018 10:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] B&O 5470

 

I have just completed a build of F&C kit # 6761, B&O 9 Panel Hopper. This kit has a one piece body casting, so it was not a particularly difficult build, for a hopper. I followed the kit instructions in building the car and fitted it with TMW Andrews trucks and Kadee code 88 wheelsets. Paint is Scalecoat Engine Black and Testor's Dullcoat. Weathering is a thinned coat of Scalecoat  Flat Grime #1 followed with various Pan Pastel colors. Decals are the original F&C - Not entirely satisfactory.

The F&C data sheet says these cars were built for the CNJ and were a stretched version of the 1905 standard hopper design.CNJ ordered 2000 of these cars in 1920, followed by orders for additional cars. Beginning in 1940, AB brakes replaced the original K brakes and 978 of the upgraded cars were leased to the B&O at that time. B&O numbered them into their 5460 - 5534 series. I could not find a B&O class number for these cars and the instruction sheet photos only shows the designation *HM". The decal sheet has N-10 printed on it but this is incorrect, I believe. These cars had a long life as the B&O rebuilt, and renumbered, them in the mid-1950's.

This is an interesting version of a rib side hopper due to the extra side panel which results in the apex of the center slope sheets being placed in the center of the center panel rather than the normal placement at the center rib.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV


Re: B&O 5470

James E Kubanick
 

Thanks, guys. Yes, I did have to ream out the truck journals for good running characteristics, but I often have to do this.

And, Tim, these cars were later renumbered into the 3000 - 3999 series, so I still believe they were not classed as any of the N-10  series. Since photographing this car, I have blanked out the N-10 until I find the correct class designation, if one was ever assigned.

Jim

On Monday, October 15, 2018, 9:02:35 AM EDT, vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@...> wrote:


Beautyful model, no doubt.
 
>> TMW Andrews trucks and Kadee code 88 wheelsets. <<
 
Did you ream out the TMW trucks to accept Kadee wheelsets, or did it fit sufficiently (which I would be surprised of)?
 
Thanks and greetings
 
Johannes
 
Gesendet: Montag, 15. Oktober 2018 um 03:59 Uhr
Von: "James E Kubanick" <jekuban@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: [RealSTMFC] B&O 5470
I have just completed a build of F&C kit # 6761, B&O 9 Panel Hopper. This kit has a one piece body casting, so it was not a particularly difficult build, for a hopper. I followed the kit instructions in building the car and fitted it with TMW Andrews trucks and Kadee code 88 wheelsets. Paint is Scalecoat Engine Black and Testor's Dullcoat. Weathering is a thinned coat of Scalecoat  Flat Grime #1 followed with various Pan Pastel colors. Decals are the original F&C - Not entirely satisfactory.

The F&C data sheet says these cars were built for the CNJ and were a stretched version of the 1905 standard hopper design.CNJ ordered 2000 of these cars in 1920, followed by orders for additional cars. Beginning in 1940, AB brakes replaced the original K brakes and 978 of the upgraded cars were leased to the B&O at that time. B&O numbered them into their 5460 - 5534 series. I could not find a B&O class number for these cars and the instruction sheet photos only shows the designation *HM". The decal sheet has N-10 printed on it but this is incorrect, I believe. These cars had a long life as the B&O rebuilt, and renumbered, them in the mid-1950's.

This is an interesting version of a rib side hopper due to the extra side panel which results in the apex of the center slope sheets being placed in the center of the center panel rather than the normal placement at the center rib.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV


Re: B&O 5470

vapeurchapelon
 

Beautyful model, no doubt.
 
>> TMW Andrews trucks and Kadee code 88 wheelsets. <<
 
Did you ream out the TMW trucks to accept Kadee wheelsets, or did it fit sufficiently (which I would be surprised of)?
 
Thanks and greetings
 
Johannes
 
Gesendet: Montag, 15. Oktober 2018 um 03:59 Uhr
Von: "James E Kubanick" <jekuban@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: [RealSTMFC] B&O 5470
I have just completed a build of F&C kit # 6761, B&O 9 Panel Hopper. This kit has a one piece body casting, so it was not a particularly difficult build, for a hopper. I followed the kit instructions in building the car and fitted it with TMW Andrews trucks and Kadee code 88 wheelsets. Paint is Scalecoat Engine Black and Testor's Dullcoat. Weathering is a thinned coat of Scalecoat  Flat Grime #1 followed with various Pan Pastel colors. Decals are the original F&C - Not entirely satisfactory.

The F&C data sheet says these cars were built for the CNJ and were a stretched version of the 1905 standard hopper design.CNJ ordered 2000 of these cars in 1920, followed by orders for additional cars. Beginning in 1940, AB brakes replaced the original K brakes and 978 of the upgraded cars were leased to the B&O at that time. B&O numbered them into their 5460 - 5534 series. I could not find a B&O class number for these cars and the instruction sheet photos only shows the designation *HM". The decal sheet has N-10 printed on it but this is incorrect, I believe. These cars had a long life as the B&O rebuilt, and renumbered, them in the mid-1950's.

This is an interesting version of a rib side hopper due to the extra side panel which results in the apex of the center slope sheets being placed in the center of the center panel rather than the normal placement at the center rib.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV


Re: B&O 5470

O Fenton Wells
 

Well done James and a great finish applied too!!!
Fenton Wells

On Sun, Oct 14, 2018 at 9:59 PM James E Kubanick <jekuban@...> wrote:
I have just completed a build of F&C kit # 6761, B&O 9 Panel Hopper. This kit has a one piece body casting, so it was not a particularly difficult build, for a hopper. I followed the kit instructions in building the car and fitted it with TMW Andrews trucks and Kadee code 88 wheelsets. Paint is Scalecoat Engine Black and Testor's Dullcoat. Weathering is a thinned coat of Scalecoat  Flat Grime #1 followed with various Pan Pastel colors. Decals are the original F&C - Not entirely satisfactory.

The F&C data sheet says these cars were built for the CNJ and were a stretched version of the 1905 standard hopper design.CNJ ordered 2000 of these cars in 1920, followed by orders for additional cars. Beginning in 1940, AB brakes replaced the original K brakes and 978 of the upgraded cars were leased to the B&O at that time. B&O numbered them into their 5460 - 5534 series. I could not find a B&O class number for these cars and the instruction sheet photos only shows the designation *HM". The decal sheet has N-10 printed on it but this is incorrect, I believe. These cars had a long life as the B&O rebuilt, and renumbered, them in the mid-1950's.

This is an interesting version of a rib side hopper due to the extra side panel which results in the apex of the center slope sheets being placed in the center of the center panel rather than the normal placement at the center rib.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: B&O 5470

gtws00
 

Great looking model Jim. The weathering is very nice.
George Toman


Re: prototype for this covered hopper model?

Tim O'Connor
 


BINGO, Bob!! I think it matches the Erie car the best - the Owens-Illinois
is very slightly different. Thanks!

Tim O'

(image scan from Ted Culotta's Ebay auction - thank you Ted!)


Tim,

I think that's one of the Erie 50 ton covered hoppers from the early 1930s, IIRC a Greenville 1321 cu. ft. design. I know Owens Corning (the red "Duraglas" lettering) also had some, and a Royce Chemicals company from NJ. I think RI got some second hand for locomotive sand service as well.

F&C makes a HO resin kit, but the brass model was imported by PSC.

Bob Heninger
Minot, ND

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Steel Plate Loads

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Hi Bob:

I have an excellent hand out (how to) 
from a seminar some years back.  I am leaving for Naperville early tomorrow and will be gone for about two weeks.  If you still need one then I will get a co lol y to you.  It is quite comprehensive.

Bill



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Bob Chaparro <chiefbobbb@...>
Date: 10/13/18 2:41 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Steel Plate Loads

Can anyone direct me to a 1950s era loading diagram or prototype photo for steel plate on a flat car?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

21781 - 21800 of 180946