main@RealSTMFC.groups.io

Hello please allow me to introduce myself, I am . . .

Bill Welch

#159189

. . .the Pilot model for a new resin kit. Like so many early 50-foot wood sheathed box and auto cars I am from the West (as is my designer/pattern maker coincidentally). But I am not just another pretty face with an interesting curve and detailed nooks and crannies; I mean how many 50-ft. Double Sheathed cars do you know of that were in revenue service into the 1960’s?! I will be at the Chicagoland RPM in Lisle, IL later this week if you want to get to know me better but please do not bug me about when I will be available.

Chou Baby

Re: B&O 5470

James E Kubanick

#159188

Bob,

Thanks for that info. Based on this, I will letter my car without a class designation and place "HM" in that spot as shown in the F&C instruction photo.

Jim Kubanick

Show quoted text

On Monday, October 15, 2018, 9:12:09 PM EDT, rwitt_2000 via Groups.Io <rwitt_2000@...> wrote:

From various notes;

B&O leased CNJ hoppers on two occasions postwar, 1947-1955 and 1955-1962.
The second lease (1955-1962), B&O did lease CNJ fishbelly hoppers, and they were painted B&O.
The leased hoppers were numbered in the B&O 3000-4199 series, the fishbellies were mixed in with other types at random.

S of E Date	Class	Built	Numbers	Capacity	Inside Length	Tare Wt.	Number of Cars
1-53 Lease 1	CNJ	1920	5000-5459	55T	30’6”		440
			5460-6534		32’6”		1049
1-54	CNJ	1920	5000-5459	55T	30’6”		251
			5460-6534		32’0”		1047
1-55	CNJ	1920	5000-5459	55T	30’6”	19T	59
			5460-6534		32’6”	19T	238
1-56 Lease 2	CNJ	1909-41	3000-4599	50T	32’0”		1186
		1920	5529-6355	55T	32’6”		2
1-57	CNJ	1909-41	3000-4599	50T	32’0”		1527
		1920	6355	55T	32’0”		1
1-58	CNJ	1909-41	3000-4559	50T	32’0”		1481
		1920	6355		32’0”		1
1-60	CNJ	1909-41	3000-4559	50T	32’0”		1124

Probably more information than anyone wanted ...

Regards,

Bob Witt

Around the web

Eric Hansmann

#159187

The latest Resin Car Works blog post rounds up resources on a few blogs and sites that feature ideas and details to help you make progress on your models.

http://blog.resincarworks.com/web-resources/

Eric Hansmann

RCW web guy

Re: B&O 5470

Tim O'Connor

#159186

Recently someone was griping about my use of spaces vs tabs and I responded that
formats vary from screen to screen... Just thought you might be interested to see
what Bob's note looks like on my screen! :-D

Tim O'

Bob Witt wrote

Show quoted text

From various notes;
B&O leased CNJ hoppers on two occasions postwar, 1947-1955 and 1955-1962. The second lease (1955-1962),
B&O did lease CNJ fishbelly hoppers, and they were painted B&O. The leased hoppers were numbered in the
B&O 3000-4199 series, the fishbellies were mixed in with other types at random.

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: B&O 5470

rwitt_2000

#159185

From various notes;

B&O leased CNJ hoppers on two occasions postwar, 1947-1955 and 1955-1962.
The second lease (1955-1962), B&O did lease CNJ fishbelly hoppers, and they were painted B&O.
The leased hoppers were numbered in the B&O 3000-4199 series, the fishbellies were mixed in with other types at random.

S of E Date	Class	Built	Numbers	Capacity	Inside Length	Tare Wt.	Number of Cars
1-53 Lease 1	CNJ	1920	5000-5459	55T	30’6”		440
			5460-6534		32’6”		1049
1-54	CNJ	1920	5000-5459	55T	30’6”		251
			5460-6534		32’0”		1047
1-55	CNJ	1920	5000-5459	55T	30’6”	19T	59
			5460-6534		32’6”	19T	238
1-56 Lease 2	CNJ	1909-41	3000-4599	50T	32’0”		1186
		1920	5529-6355	55T	32’6”		2
1-57	CNJ	1909-41	3000-4599	50T	32’0”		1527
		1920	6355	55T	32’0”		1
1-58	CNJ	1909-41	3000-4559	50T	32’0”		1481
		1920	6355		32’0”		1
1-60	CNJ	1909-41	3000-4559	50T	32’0”		1124

Probably more information than anyone wanted ...

Regards,

Bob Witt

Westerfield kits for sale

Hugh Guillaume

#159184

I have twenty-nine Westerfield kits left to sell. Send an e-mail for the list. mguill1224@... Hugh T Guillaume

Re: Gondola Modeling

Charlie Vlk

#159183

Agreed, a very good presentation worth filing for future reference!

Also, cut the link before Freight Car and you’ll get a menu of additional clinics that are also worthwhile!

Charlie Vlk

Show quoted text

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2018 1:26 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Gondola Modeling

Outstanding!! Thanks to Charlie Tapper for sharing that!

Tim O'Connor

Here is a link to an on-line presentation by Charlie Tapper on Freight Car Modeling: With Special Emphasis on Transition Era Gondolas. This was presented at the Indian Nation’s Division/NMRA meet on September 22, 2012.
http://www.tulsanmra.org/resources/Freight_Car_Modeling.pdf
This presentation, at 134 pages, is loaded with photos and illustrations. The focus is on:
Creating a Plausible FleetOne That Mirrors the Prototype in Distribution of Cars
Identifying Correct Cars for the Industries On Your Layout
Creating a Detailed Fleet, With Cars Being Correctly Detailed to Era, Type, Paint Scheme, Lettering, Weathering, and Appliances
Bob Chaparro

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: prototype for this covered hopper model?

Andy Jackson

#159182

You're right Tom. Enlarged the image & can see it's just a shadow.

Andy Jackson
Santa Fe Springs CA

B&O N-10 hopper cars

Tim O'Connor

#159181

Here is a series of archived conversations from the original FREIGHTCARS list.

============ 10-14-2002

B&O 124000-126999 were class N-10 and N-10a, 24000-24999 and 127000-130019
were N-10b, 233800-234199 were ex-Jamison 1300-1699 N-10d, and 325000-
325999 were N-10e. What happened to N-10c?

And why did B&O reorder the old N-10 design in 1921? B&O's preferred
hopper in the Teens was the side-dump N-13, then they backtracked to the
N-12 by the thousands in the early and mid-1920s.

David Thompson email

============ 10-15-2002

   > B&O 124000-126999 were class N-10 and N-10a, 24000-24999 and 127000-130019 were N-10b,
   > 233800-234199 were ex-Jamison 1300-1699 N-10d, and 325000-325999 were N-10e. What happened
   > to N-10c? And why did B&O reorder the old N-10 design in 1921? B&O's preferred hopper in
   > the Teens was the side-dump N-13, then they backtracked to the N-12 by the thousands in
   > the early and mid-1920s. David Thompson

And Eric Neubauer replied

   > Two possible reasons. Certain shippers or customers may have required that size, or the size
   > was restricted because of reused components from earlier cars.

Then Bob Witt writes

The reasons the B&O ordered more Class N-10 in the 1920s is not known. Chris Barkan and I have
speculated, but that is all we have. Eric reasons are valid. Another possibility is that earlier
some N-10s were built for private coal companies, and may be this group of cars originally were
ordered by a coal company to the old design. The date of delivery (~1921) could be one of those
times the advantages for owning coal cars by private coal companies was removed by the ICC
(per Al Westerfield's article), and the B&O took delivery after the coal company no longer wanted them.

I am just beginning to research the ownership of B&O design coal cars by private coal companies.
Hopefully I will have more information in another year.

I have reasonably complete set of clearance diagrams for B&O hopper cars. I will check on the
N-10c this evening.

Bob Witt email

============ 10-15-2002

In looking over the B&O equipment summaries, they ordered 1000 of each in 1921 for 1922 delivery:
N-10e 325000-325999 and N-12f 326000-326999. The N-10e was split evenly between PSC and SSC, the
N-12f between BC&F and Cambria, and both were "rebodies" of the ca.1900 N-8 and N-9 PSC fishbelly
hoppers, reusing the old Vogt trucks. Perhaps B&O wanted to see if one design or the other offered
an advantage for "rebodying" work?

David Thompson email

==========================

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

More eBay listings

Clark Propst

#159180

If interested

https://www.ebay.com/itm/113311281475?ul_noapp=true

https://www.ebay.com/itm/113311285690?ul_noapp=true

Thanks!
Clark Propst

Lehigh Model Products kits

Eric Mumper

#159179

Group,

Three old Lehigh Model Products kits came into my possession and I would like to find a good home for them at the Chicago RPM if anyone is interested. The first is labeled "Merchants Despatch" on the end. The second is a 40ft. AAR type box car lettered Seaboard and includes two bottles of paint. The third just says Lackawanna, but is a similar box car. These kits appear to be complete and would like to find a loving home for cars from "the good old days."

Eric Mumper

IRC 70T Barber trucks

Eric Mumper

#159178

Group,

As progress moves forward on detailing Intermountain 1958cuft covered hoppers, I have 10 pair of the 70T Barber S-2 spring plank trucks available for a worthy home. Find me at the Chicago RPM and they can be yours for cheap.

Eric Mumper

Re: prototype for this covered hopper model?

Tom Madden

#159177

Looks like a shadow from the roof overhang. You can see the same thing on the CNJ car to the right.

Tom Madden

Re: B&O 5470

rwitt_2000

#159176

I didn't sign my last post - Bob Witt

Re: prototype for this covered hopper model?

Andy Jackson

#159175

Note the curve in the top of the sidewall & ribs of the Erie one but not the model. "Close but no cigar"?

Andy Jackson
Santa Fe Springs CA

Re: B&O 5470

rwitt_2000

#159174

Jim and all,

A quick comment these hoppers were leased from CNJ. B&O typically did not assign a class to leased equipment. The Summary of Equipment listed them as "CNJ" . It would not be a class N-10.

I will have to check my notes, but there were at lease two different leases. Chris Barkan wrote an article for the B&O Sentinel based upon memos describing the various leases and what hoppers were included and the number series. The later leases included some fishbelly side sill hoppers.

Re: prototype for this covered hopper model?

George Eichelberger

#159173

Appears to be Pecos River Brass by John Smith from 70s. Box says “rebuilt”. From PRB I suspect a Santa Fe prototype?

Ike

Re: B&O 5470

James E Kubanick

#159172

Thank you, Paul.

Jim

Show quoted text

On Monday, October 15, 2018, 11:10:44 AM EDT, James E Kubanick <jekuban@...> wrote:

Peter,

The stirrups were those supplied in the kit. To me, the look like Tichy or Detail Associates. They are made of Delrin.

Jim

On Monday, October 15, 2018, 10:58:06 AM EDT, Paul Doggett via Groups.Io <paul.doggett2472@...> wrote:

Stunning modelling Jim the weathering is absolutely great.

Paul Doggett England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

On 15 Oct 2018, at 15:49, Peter Ness <prness@...> wrote:

Very nice build, Jim. I like what you’ve done with the interior! May I ask what you used for stirrup steps?

Peter Ness

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of James E Kubanick
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2018 10:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] B&O 5470

I have just completed a build of F&C kit # 6761, B&O 9 Panel Hopper. This kit has a one piece body casting, so it was not a particularly difficult build, for a hopper. I followed the kit instructions in building the car and fitted it with TMW Andrews trucks and Kadee code 88 wheelsets. Paint is Scalecoat Engine Black and Testor's Dullcoat. Weathering is a thinned coat of Scalecoat Flat Grime #1 followed with various Pan Pastel colors. Decals are the original F&C - Not entirely satisfactory.

The F&C data sheet says these cars were built for the CNJ and were a stretched version of the 1905 standard hopper design.CNJ ordered 2000 of these cars in 1920, followed by orders for additional cars. Beginning in 1940, AB brakes replaced the original K brakes and 978 of the upgraded cars were leased to the B&O at that time. B&O numbered them into their 5460 - 5534 series. I could not find a B&O class number for these cars and the instruction sheet photos only shows the designation *HM". The decal sheet has N-10 printed on it but this is incorrect, I believe. These cars had a long life as the B&O rebuilt, and renumbered, them in the mid-1950's.

This is an interesting version of a rib side hopper due to the extra side panel which results in the apex of the center slope sheets being placed in the center of the center panel rather than the normal placement at the center rib.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV

Re: B&O 5470

James E Kubanick

#159171

Peter,

The stirrups were those supplied in the kit. To me, the look like Tichy or Detail Associates. They are made of Delrin.

Jim

Show quoted text

On Monday, October 15, 2018, 10:58:06 AM EDT, Paul Doggett via Groups.Io <paul.doggett2472@...> wrote:

Stunning modelling Jim the weathering is absolutely great.

Paul Doggett England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

On 15 Oct 2018, at 15:49, Peter Ness <prness@...> wrote:

Very nice build, Jim. I like what you’ve done with the interior! May I ask what you used for stirrup steps?

Peter Ness

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of James E Kubanick
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2018 10:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] B&O 5470

I have just completed a build of F&C kit # 6761, B&O 9 Panel Hopper. This kit has a one piece body casting, so it was not a particularly difficult build, for a hopper. I followed the kit instructions in building the car and fitted it with TMW Andrews trucks and Kadee code 88 wheelsets. Paint is Scalecoat Engine Black and Testor's Dullcoat. Weathering is a thinned coat of Scalecoat Flat Grime #1 followed with various Pan Pastel colors. Decals are the original F&C - Not entirely satisfactory.

The F&C data sheet says these cars were built for the CNJ and were a stretched version of the 1905 standard hopper design.CNJ ordered 2000 of these cars in 1920, followed by orders for additional cars. Beginning in 1940, AB brakes replaced the original K brakes and 978 of the upgraded cars were leased to the B&O at that time. B&O numbered them into their 5460 - 5534 series. I could not find a B&O class number for these cars and the instruction sheet photos only shows the designation *HM". The decal sheet has N-10 printed on it but this is incorrect, I believe. These cars had a long life as the B&O rebuilt, and renumbered, them in the mid-1950's.

This is an interesting version of a rib side hopper due to the extra side panel which results in the apex of the center slope sheets being placed in the center of the center panel rather than the normal placement at the center rib.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV

Re: B&O 5470

Paul Doggett

#159170

Stunning modelling Jim the weathering is absolutely great.

Paul Doggett England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

Show quoted text

On 15 Oct 2018, at 15:49, Peter Ness <prness@...> wrote:

Very nice build, Jim. I like what you’ve done with the interior! May I ask what you used for stirrup steps?

Peter Ness

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of James E Kubanick
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2018 10:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] B&O 5470

I have just completed a build of F&C kit # 6761, B&O 9 Panel Hopper. This kit has a one piece body casting, so it was not a particularly difficult build, for a hopper. I followed the kit instructions in building the car and fitted it with TMW Andrews trucks and Kadee code 88 wheelsets. Paint is Scalecoat Engine Black and Testor's Dullcoat. Weathering is a thinned coat of Scalecoat Flat Grime #1 followed with various Pan Pastel colors. Decals are the original F&C - Not entirely satisfactory.

The F&C data sheet says these cars were built for the CNJ and were a stretched version of the 1905 standard hopper design.CNJ ordered 2000 of these cars in 1920, followed by orders for additional cars. Beginning in 1940, AB brakes replaced the original K brakes and 978 of the upgraded cars were leased to the B&O at that time. B&O numbered them into their 5460 - 5534 series. I could not find a B&O class number for these cars and the instruction sheet photos only shows the designation *HM". The decal sheet has N-10 printed on it but this is incorrect, I believe. These cars had a long life as the B&O rebuilt, and renumbered, them in the mid-1950's.

This is an interesting version of a rib side hopper due to the extra side panel which results in the apex of the center slope sheets being placed in the center of the center panel rather than the normal placement at the center rib.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV