Re: Inside view of NP circular roof construction
np328
Eric,
I believe the 4900 class is 1929 build by PC&F IIRC. Too late for your modeling. Sorry. Jim
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Re: Inside view of NP circular roof construction
np328
Dave Nelson asked about the roof. Is it well documented? Yes the 6000 series car is very well documented, with numerous paper plans. However I do not have these all scanned. And like much research, come from sources claiming a copyright. (Dubious copyright claim or not, I uniformly honor those claims as I do like researching at the sites. And in my experience with some, yes they can and do track use.)
Of a factory fresh interior shot of the 6000 series cars. None was in the builder’s photo folio. I stated that I know I have a photo around somewhere however it is not at my finger-tips at the moment.
The car number of the interior photo: Please re-read my prior post, forth sentence from the end in the post. I was quite clear on what car number the interior photo was and gave it as 4982. On outside dimensions, the cars are similar in dimensions, with the 6000-30000 series cars having fixed ends.
Yes the 4982 does have an end door as you can see. Could explain the photo in the folio.
The roof design plans are largely the same design regardless of box car series. I say largely, however not identical.
NP stock cars with radial roofs are different.
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Re: Inside view of NP circular roof construction
Eric Hansmann
Hmmm. Yes, you are correct for that image. I think Jim Dick introduced this to the conversation but may not have realized it was not the same as the car in the links with the damaged Cleveland tractors. Were the 6000 series upgraded and renumbered in later years?
BTW, there are no 4000 series cars in the NP 1926 ORER listings.
Eric Hansmann Murfreesboro, TN
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Norm Buckhart
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 3:09 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Inside view of NP circular roof construction
maybe we’re talking about two different cars
here’s the one I am referring to
norm
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Re: Stupid hand brake question
If the load hung over the end of the car, there probably was an "idler" car, and that car's hand brake could be used to anchor the loaded car. More typical would be a load that needed access from the end of the car, so the brake staff would be only be lowered while the car was being loaded and/or unloaded. Tim
The implication here is that ya can't use the brake wheel in a lowered position. Is that true? I don't see how it could be, because what d'ya do if you need to park a flat with a long load? --
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts
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Re: Stupid hand brake question
and just to muddy the waters a bit... :-)
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Hey, it's work to lower the brake staff. The brakes were usually in the up position, unless there was some reason (such as interference with the load). Since the hand brake was otherwise required to be operative for switching and spotting the car, I suspect a lowered hand brake was a defect that the car men were required to remedy when they inspected the train... Anyone know? At any rate, most photos of flatcars in trains show them in the up position. --
*Tim O'Connor* *Sterling, Massachusetts*
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Re: Stupid hand brake question
spsalso
So, kind of paraphrasing what's been said:
If a brake wheel was lowered, it was raised the first time someone needed to use it. And it stayed that way until there was a reason to lower it. The implication here is that ya can't use the brake wheel in a lowered position. Is that true? I don't see how it could be, because what d'ya do if you need to park a flat with a long load? Ed Edward Sutorik
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Re: Stupid hand brake question
Dennis Storzek
Hey, it's work to lower the brake staff. The brakes were usually in the up position, unless there was some reason (such as interference with the load). Since the hand brake was otherwise required to be operative for switching and spotting the car, I suspect a lowered hand brake was a defect that the car men were required to remedy when they inspected the train... Anyone know? At any rate, most photos of flatcars in trains show them in the up position.
Dennis Storzek
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Re: Inside view of NP circular roof construction
Norm Buckhart
maybe we’re talking about two different cars
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
here’s the one I am referring to norm
On Oct 4, 2018, at 1:02 PM, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:
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Re: Inside view of NP circular roof construction
Eric Hansmann
Norm,
Can you provide a link for the image you reference? I had thought the discussion centered on this image of NP 6706.
http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-10-01-18/X5242.jpg
Eric Hansmann Murfreesboro, TN
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Norm Buckhart
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 2:44 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Inside view of NP circular roof construction
if you will see the number stenciled just inside the car and to the left of the top of the door you will note that the car is part of the 4000 series. I believe I see 4035
norm buckhart
On Oct 4, 2018, at 12:17 PM, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:
As per data in the October 1926 ORER, there is little difference between the 5000 (125 cars listed) and 6000 (1000 cars) series Northern Pacific XA boxcars. All dimensions are the same. Neither has a note indicating end doors.
The 7000 series are noted as having end doors, but those are 40-foot cars.
Eric Hansmann Murfreesboro, TN
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On
Behalf OfKemal Mumcu via Groups.Io
I'm curious what serious differences there are between this car and the
5000 series model from Speedwitch. End doors on the 6000 series?
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Stupid hand brake question
Peter Ness
I know I should know the answer to this, but I don't. I am sure the collective group will devise an appropriate punishment for my utter lack of knowledge.
Question: for flat cars equipped with a drop staff hand brakes, would the staff be in the lowered position while the car is in a train? I am asking because I don't see that once a car is in a consist that anyone is going to have to set the hand brake and I am not aware of any requirement for correct function of the brake while in consist, that the hand brake must be in the raised position. OK - punishment can be assigned, but please provide an answer. Thanks, Peter Ness
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Re: Inside view of NP circular roof construction
Norm Buckhart
if you will see the number stenciled just inside the car and to the left of the top of the door you will note that the car is part of the 4000 series. I believe I see 4035
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
norm buckhart
On Oct 4, 2018, at 12:17 PM, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:
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Re: Inside view of NP circular roof construction
Eric Hansmann
As per data in the October 1926 ORER, there is little difference between the 5000 (125 cars listed) and 6000 (1000 cars) series Northern Pacific XA boxcars. All dimensions are the same. Neither has a note indicating end doors.
The 7000 series are noted as having end doors, but those are 40-foot cars.
Eric Hansmann Murfreesboro, TN
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kemal Mumcu via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2018 12:54 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Inside view of NP circular roof construction
I'm curious what serious differences there are between this car and the
5000 series model from Speedwitch. End doors on the 6000 series?
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Re: Inside view of NP circular roof construction
Dennis Storzek
On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 09:31 PM, Dave Nelson wrote:
or is that well documented elsewhere?Find a series built by Pullman, as several of the Soo series were, order up drawings from the Pullman Library at IRM, and, as an added bonus, you'll have accurate drawings of the rest of the car. Dennis Storzek
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Re: Inside view of NP circular roof construction
Dave Nelson
Regarding the roof itself, it looks like those are 2x4’s on either side of the centerline and a 2x6 on the centerline. If that is correct then it might be possible to calculate the curvature of the roof… or is that well documented elsewhere?
Dave Nelson
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Re: Inside view of NP circular roof construction
Kemal Mumcu
I'm curious what serious differences there are between this car and the 5000 series model from Speedwitch. End doors on the 6000 series?
Colin Meikle
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Re: Inside view of NP circular roof construction
Alex Huff
In the series of photos, an overexposed image shows the interior end of the car and the roof. Some roof supports (purlins) show damage from having been struck from below.
My speculation is that due to a severe overspeed coupling, the damaged tractor broke loose, tipped up crushing its cab against the end wall and the radiator hit the roof. Perhaps the tractor in front of the damaged one rolled under the wrecked one, taking out the drive components which are now sitting on the loading dock, along with blocking which matches other interior photos. All speculation of course. Alex Huff, once upon a time a switchman who saw some seriously overspeed couplings.
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Re: Inside view of NP circular roof construction
Eric Hansmann
Cleveland Tractor had a connection to the White Motor Company. From the text details below the image, this is a 1927 photo. It's interesting to see a Northern Pacific automobile car loaded in Cleveland, Ohio, and routed east. Eric Hansmann
On October 2, 2018 at 9:59 PM James SANDIFER <steve.sandifer@...> wrote:
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Re: Coupler lift bars.
Indeed, though I did NOT mean that they were unsuitable for use. It’s rather a toss up ... the Tangent bars resist bending, but will snap off if overstressed, and the DA bars just bend. The DA bars can usually be straightened. Both are fine unless abused.
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I don’t know what metal is used by either manufacturer. Both are non-magnetic. DA’s are shiny silver-colored (stainless steel?), while Tangent’s are a “brassy” color (possibly phosphor-bronze). Dan Mitchell ==========
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Re: Inside view of NP circular roof construction
Eric Hansmann
I've reviewed many of these historic Lackawanna images and they seem to fall into a few categories. First, many images document an accident. The images of the NP boxcar with the Cleveland tractors are typical. Many seem to document a worker injury or a fatality. I can't tell you how many I've seen that illustrate a crossing and the crunched remnants of an auto. Second, many images document new facilities, especially passenger stations. This last point took awhile to figure out. There are quite a few images of homes and pastoral scenes. I think these document property the Lackawanna needed in order to upgrade their right-of-way. At any rate, we are fortunate that this extensive collection survived. I am not familiar with a similar railroad company photo archive. Barriger's images come close but they lack the subject focus of the Lackawanna images. Eric Hansmann
On October 2, 2018 at 8:19 PM Schuyler Larrabee <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:
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