Date   
Re: New York Central's "USRA" Steel Boxcar Roofs

Benjamin Hom
 


John Barry asked:
"I see lots of NYC cars, but didn't see any diagonal panels, did I miss something."

It's right under your nose.  First car in the cut on the left in the foreground.


Ben Hom


Re: New York Central's "USRA" Steel Boxcar Roofs

vapeurchapelon
 

John,
 
tha car just in front of #120552 has a diagonal panel roof.
 
Johannes
 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 06. Juli 2017 um 12:07 Uhr
Von: "John Barry northbaylines@... [STMFC]"
An: "STMFC@..."
Betreff: Re: [STMFC] New York Central's "USRA" Steel Boxcar Roofs
 

 

Ben,
 
I see lots of NYC cars, but didn't see any diagonal panels, did I miss something.
 
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA
 
707-490-9696 
 
PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736

 


From: "Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC]"
To: "STMFC@..."
Sent: Wednesday, July 5, 2017 10:24 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] New York Central's "USRA" Steel Boxcar Roofs
 
 
 
Bill Welch asked:
"I know that many of the NYC's USRA cars received a rectangular panel roof to replace the original roof. Were any of these rebuilt with the Diagonal Panel roof?"

I wrote:
"Absolutely.  The Broadway Limited model represents these cars.  Here's proof of both roofs:
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/shot%20of%20mo/shotofmonthmain.html

This time with direct link:


Ben Hom
 

 

 

Re: New York Central's "USRA" Steel Boxcar Roofs

John Barry
 

Ben,

I see lots of NYC cars, but didn't see any diagonal panels, did I miss something.
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC]"
To: "STMFC@..."
Sent: Wednesday, July 5, 2017 10:24 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] New York Central's "USRA" Steel Boxcar Roofs

 
Bill Welch asked:
"I know that many of the NYC's USRA cars received a rectangular panel roof to replace the original roof. Were any of these rebuilt with the Diagonal Panel roof?"

I wrote:
"Absolutely.  The Broadway Limited model represents these cars.  Here's proof of both roofs:
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/shot%20of%20mo/shotofmonthmain.html

This time with direct link:


Ben Hom


Re: New York Central's "USRA" Steel Boxcar Roofs

Benjamin Hom
 

Bill Welch asked:
"I know that many of the NYC's USRA cars received a rectangular panel roof to replace the original roof. Were any of these rebuilt with the Diagonal Panel roof?"

I wrote:
"Absolutely.  The Broadway Limited model represents these cars.  Here's proof of both roofs:
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/shot%20of%20mo/shotofmonthmain.html

This time with direct link:


Ben Hom

Re: New York Central's "USRA" Steel Boxcar Roofs

Benjamin Hom
 

Bill Welch asked:
"I know that many of the NYC's USRA cars received a rectangular panel roof to replace the original roof. Were any of these rebuilt with the Diagonal Panel roof?"

Absolutely.  The Broadway Limited model represents these cars.  Here's proof of both roofs:


Ben Hom

Re: Equalized Trucks in HO

Matt Goodman
 

Hey Jim,

I came across springing knowledge in a different context, but I think it is applicable here.  An unwrapped coil spring is nothing more than a long rod.  The longer the rod, the easier it is to bend due to greater leverage.  When a spring is shortened, you’ve reduced the length of the lever, so it’s rate - the force required to bend it a given amount - increases. 

My guess - since cutting the spring solved the problem - is that the uncut spring was coil-binding. Coil binding occurs when a coil spring is compressed enough that all the coils come in contact with one another - becoming essentially a solid cylinder.  The cut spring would still expand enough to span the distance between the screw and truck bolster, but would have a lot more air between the coils.

Just a guess though!

Matt Goodman
Columbus, Ohio, US


On Jul 4, 2017, at 11:57 AM, jimbetz@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



Matt,

  That's true ... but when the spring is considerably compressed then isn't it
the -distance- in the number of turns that comes in to play more than simply
the number turns?
  I do know this - when I cut the spring in half it created less pressure on the
truck which created less pressure on the bolster which made it a truck that
was more likely to rock/tilt on the bolster.
  Perhaps I just got lucky and hit that magic point where the spring is 
just right and it is only pressing on the truck+bolster joint when it is
significantly rocked ... *G* 
                                                                                                        - Jim B. 



New York Central's "USRA" Steel Boxcar Roofs

Bill Welch
 

I know that many of the NYC's USRA cars received a rectangular panel roof to replace the original roof. Were any of these rebuilt with the Diagonal Panel roof?

Bill Welch


Re: Flood of 1913 photos from Dayton Metro Library

Eric Hansmann
 

Thanks for the catch, Bob! I forgot to check the side sill. 

BTW, I found a B&O M-11 in another image with a neat C&O car, too. That may become a blog post.


Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro. TN




On July 5, 2017 at 2:35 PM "rwitt_2000@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:



Eric,

A nice find. Thank your fellow researchers.

I will add that with fishbelly side sills the B&O box car is most likely a M-13.

Bob Witt


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

Re: Chicagoland RPM Minikit - 2016

william darnaby
 

Thanks, Bob fort the link and to the B&ORHS.  I really could have used this a month or so ago when I finally got around to building mine.  I could not find the alleged handout from the meet and relied on the Resin Car Works blog in addition to making it up as I went along.  I did notice that the diagram  in RPCyc 9 shows truck centers of 32 feet while the provided UF is at 31 feet and corrected that with 6 inches of styrene behind each bolster.  This is noticeable from the side as the truck centers should line up with the end side posts.  I also noticed that the striker distance should be 5 feet and corrected for that too.  YMMV as they say.

Bill Darnaby



From: "chapbob611@... [STMFC]" To: STMFC
Sent: Wednesday, July 5, 2017 7:37 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Chicagoland RPM Minikit - 2016



Registrants of the 2016 Chicagoland RPM were presented with an HO scale minikit of B&O's class M-15K wagontop boxcar. The kit is comprised of a Fox Valley Models class M-53 carbody (to be modified to the M-15k), Accurail fishbelly underframe, various details, and custom decals from Speedwitch Media. Summarized instructions were included, with various steps left to the modeler to figure out.
For modelers with this kit still unbuilt in their stash, the current issue of B&O Modeler (issue #44) includes thorough how-to coverage for building the model. B&O Modeler is available for download at BORHS.org.  
 
Regards,
Bob Chapman




Chicagoland RPM Minikit - 2016

Bob Chapman
 

Registrants of the 2016 Chicagoland RPM were presented with an HO scale minikit of B&O's class M-15K wagontop boxcar. The kit is comprised of a Fox Valley Models class M-53 carbody (to be modified to the M-15k), Accurail fishbelly underframe, various details, and custom decals from Speedwitch Media. Summarized instructions were included, with various steps left to the modeler to figure out.
For modelers with this kit still unbuilt in their stash, the current issue of B&O Modeler (issue #44) includes thorough how-to coverage for building the model. B&O Modeler is available for download at BORHS.org.  
 
Regards,
Bob Chapman

Re: [Non-DoD Source] PRR "Merchandise Service"

Jerry Michels
 

I'm NOT saying that the RRs didn't -try- to provide competition for the 
already growing long haul trucking ... I'm saying that they weren't able 
to make it work and soon after initiating the service (often less than 5 
years) the cars went back to being 'just' rolling billboards and they 
weren't used for any particular captive/priority service. Those special 
services were still being promoted - but you were just as likely to see 
a regular box car in use as one of the ones that were painted up for the 
service ... and the ones so painted used in general interchange. 
I do know that on the GN and the SP those special cars lasted less 
than 5 years - in terms of being used in any particular service. 
The paint jobs, of course, lasted much longer. 

Was this actually true for the PRR Merchandise Service also? 
- Jim B. 

P.S. Who is admittedly very weak on all things Pennsy. 

As far as your general comment, I am not sure about your conclusions.  Was LCL meant to compete with long-haul trucking?  Or was it initiated to provide local and long-haul service?  My father had an appliance store in Washington, MO, in the 1960s, and he regularly received MoPac Eagle Merchandise Service LCL boxcars with appliances to advertise his "Boxcar Sale" once or twice a year.  At that time, the cars were still stenciled to not be used off line. The flashy color scheme really stood out on the team track, so I think there was value in the specially-painted cars.  at least it seemed my dad and the MoPac thought so.

Jerry Michels

Re: ADMIN: Restoration of Berriger Library photos

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Mike, that would be Crystal Lake, Newton MA. I am co-president of the
Crystal Lake Conservancy, and would be pleased to direct Mr Haycock to a
suitable location.



Schuyler

Since my computer's memory is being over whelmed by the fast increasing
number of messages in support of presentations of the Berriger Library
photos, the thread about the photos is now reinstated. Those disliking the
photos are allowed to complain to me although my response might be delayed.

Lessons learned: To ensure that messages are sent OFF GROUP, require that
such messages be sent ON GROUP. To avoid unnecessary delays, please do not
follow the example of Schuyler Larrabee who suggested strongly that those
objecting to the photos "go jump in the lake." Schuyler neglected to say
which lake. I have spent considerable time trying to determine a lake near
Schuyler.

Mike Brock

STMFC complaint desk

Re: ADMIN: Barriger Library thread TERMINATED

Mikebrock
 

Dave Nelson asks:

Mike, perhaps you could refresh my memory... isn't there a STMFC rule that
only Admins can make decisions about what is and is not appropriate to post?
Or rephrased, no member shall attempt to seize the power of the Admins for
himself? I recall something like that....

What is the rule?”

 

Yep. Threads or subjects may be terminated only by myself or my representatives. When threads/subjects are terminated, members are expected to avoid sending messages associated with such threads/subjects.

 

Mike Brock

STMFC Boss

 

ADMIN: Restoration of Berriger Library photos

Mikebrock
 

Since my computer's memory is being over whelmed by the fast increasing
number of messages in support of presentations of the Berriger Library
photos, the thread about the photos is now reinstated. Those disliking the
photos are allowed to complain to me although my response might be delayed.



Lessons learned: To ensure that messages are sent OFF GROUP, require that
such messages be sent ON GROUP. To avoid unnecessary delays, please do not
follow the example of Schuyler Larrabee who suggested strongly that those
objecting to the photos "go jump in the lake." Schuyler neglected to say
which lake. I have spent considerable time trying to determine a lake near
Schuyler.



Mike Brock

STMFC complaint desk

Re: Poultry Car Decals

Richard Brennan
 

Quite do-able; It appears to be straightforward.

A good scan of the Ambroid plans and decal is all that is needed.
A prototype photo source (if known) would be frosting on the cake!

I work in vector art with Adobe Illustrator... so the results can be sized and printed (with varying degrees of success) from Z-scale up to 1:1...

Richard Brennan - TT-west
www.tt-west.com

At 06:07 PM 7/4/2017, nvrr49@... [STMFC] wrote:
I have an Ambroid Poultry Car kit that I picked up at an estate sale, and the decals are missing. Anybody know of any that might be available? I have a standing search on eBay, but nothing coming up. I could piece them together, but I really don't want to do that.

Re: Photos From The Barriger Library: Cease & Desist?

Gary Ray
 

I really appreciate the links and photos that have been shared rather than (at this point in time) looking at the whole collection.  Working on the layout takes precedent.  Please continue to post links when you find something interesting.  Also like the follow-up conversation that has ensued afterwards.  Please keep posting.

Gary Ray

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 5, 2017 9:12 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Photos From The Barriger Library: Cease & Desist?

 




Mr. Haycock does not speak for me.  I appreciate the photos and discussions as I can never learn too much.

Even what I thought I knew can be reaffirmed or corrected.

Chuck Peck

 

On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 8:44 AM, thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

I received the request below from Scott H. Haycock as a spokesperson for this group.

 

I was a bit surprised as many of you have corresponded with me off-list, thanking me for posting Barriger Library and other photos with related questions and comments.

 

And some of you have used the photos to point out additional items of interest and background which has added to the overall body of knowledge.

 

So group, what say you?

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

++++

 

Bob,

 

Cease and desist! We all know about the Barriger Library.

 

Many of the questions you ask have been covered in the past on this list. Do some research within this list's file section. A hint: JPEGS, PDFs, & EXEL files are listed by date, but then by file types.

 

scroll down to each different file type section.

 

Unless you have a specific question about a specific image, you're wasting everyone's time.

 

You can contact me if you need any clarification.

 

Scott Haycock

Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantment.

 






WP Merchandise Service [was PRR "Merchandise Service"]

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Jim,

It is my understanding that the various "merchandise service" schemes were not intended to compete with long-haul trucking, but rather to deliver small lots of retail MERCHANDISE ordered from wholesalers. It probably worked for a while in many places, but it tended to duplicate what REA already did. By the end of our period of interest, railroad freight houses were definitely on the way out, and so were rail shipments of merchandise.

Here's how the merchandise service scheme worked (or didn't) on the Western Pacific, based on official correspondence I obtained from the late Jeff Moreau:

The WP was losing merchant traffic to both legal and illegal trucking firms by the mid-1930s as paved roads and better trucks cut into their revenues. Most of this traffic came from large distributions warehouses in San Francisco and Oakland. The cargo was delivered to retail stores in Sacramento and several smaller Northern California cities. Most of the traffic probably came from general wholesale houses, but a portion may have moved directly from Sears or Wards distribution centers. The WP decided to go head-to-head with the truckers for this traffic.

The WP set aside 15 of their newest steel boxcars and gave them passenger appliances, plus a distinctive green and yellow paint scheme. These were random cars from series 20001-20200, and were given an extra 2 in front of their numbers. Five days a week four of these cars were given priority loading with merchandise at the San Francisco freight house. The cars were put on the first available night car float and hustled across the Bay for more priority loading in Oakland. Loading completed the next morning, they were added to Train 12, the Feather River Express, which had a mid-day departure.

One car was dropped at the WP passenger station in Sacramento and moved to the downtown freight station on the Sacramento Northern. Two cars were dropped in Marysville at the WP passenger station, one for unloading at the SN freight station in adjacent Yuba City. The second went north on the first available SN night freight to Chico. The final car was dropped at the Oroville passenger station, and moved by the SN to their downtown depot. The cars were returned to San Francisco on Train 51, a freight. There should have been one block of cars loading, one being unloaded, and one on the return trip five days a week. The remaining three cars were spares, and probably also saw a lot of use at Christmas time.

This service started 28 March 1941. It probably wasn't much of a success, but with the outbreak of WWII a few months later, the WP was likely stuck with the service for the duration. Gasoline rationing might have curbed some of the truck competition, but with war production hitting consumer goods hard, there probably wasn't as much to ship by any method. I've not been able to determine when the service actually ended (I suspect sometime in 1947), but by July 1949 there was just one car listed in series 220201. Had I access to a complete run of ORERs, WP AFEs or to TRAFFIC WORLD for that period, I might be able find when the service actually ended. Unfortunately, my last trips to California were to settle my father's affairs, and I had no time to play trains.

I have a photo in my collection showing one of these cars on the SN: http://www.wplives.org/sn/1010.html . I have never seen a photo of the cars in Train 12, perhaps not surprising because of the War years.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 7/5/17 1:09 PM, jimbetz jimbetz@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Hi,

I've always guessed that the Pennsy "Merchandise Service" was one of
those things that many of the RRs did in the late 50's where they
promoted something that turned out to not really be any advantage
to the shipper. Other examples of this were the GN Orange and Green
cars, SP Overnight, B&O Sentinel, etc., etc., etc.

I'm NOT saying that the RRs didn't -try- to provide competition for the
already growing long haul trucking ... I'm saying that they weren't able
to make it work and soon after initiating the service (often less than 5
years) the cars went back to being 'just' rolling billboards and they
weren't used for any particular captive/priority service. Those special
services were still being promoted - but you were just as likely to see
a regular box car in use as one of the ones that were painted up for the
service ... and the ones so painted used in general interchange.
I do know that on the GN and the SP those special cars lasted less
than 5 years - in terms of being used in any particular service.
The paint jobs, of course, lasted much longer.

Was this actually true for the PRR Merchandise Service also?
- Jim B.

P.S. Who is admittedly very weak on all things Pennsy.


Re: Poultry Car Decals

Bill McGuire
 

I to have several Poultry kits some with out decals, and one with the original decals, which are too old to be used. I would gladly send them to someone to have new decals made. Any suggestions on how to do this? Bill

Re: Item On PFE Reefer Roof

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Bob, not only is it secured to the side of the car, I think it is also secured to the underside of the roof walk. Also, it’s not coincident with the roof rib, but a bit closer to the hatch and the end of the car. If you download the largest file and then zoom in a lot, this is evident.


Schuyler

Bruce,

The hatch rests do appear to be free standing above the roof "rib" as there is a "L" shaped bracket used to fasten it to the side of the car. From this photo, I am not sure how it is fastened at the running boards.

Bob Witt

Re: Photos From The Barriger Library: Cease & Desist?

Brian Termunde
 

Bob,
While I don't look at even most of the links, I greatly value all of those that I do look at! You have, on occasion, posted them to multiple groups (such as the Citrus Group), and I am not bothered in the least by these 'duplicate' postings as they are ALL relevant to those groups and it makes sense to post on them.

There are a LOT of great photos on that site, and frankly, at this time, I really don't have the time to go through them, so you are doing me a GREAT favor by posting the links (I've looked at two so far today, and have saved others to look at later). And I've learned quite a bit, thank you very much.

Please, keep posting them, I too appreciate it. Mr. Hancock, very respectfully, might I suggest the delete key? I do use it quite a bit myself when the subject matter doesn't appeal to me, even though the topic is on topic.

Take Care,
 
Brian R. Termunde
Midvale, Utah


-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC
To: STMFC
Sent: Wed, Jul 5, 2017 11:53 am
Subject: [STMFC] Digest Number 10991

There are 15 messages in this issue.

_____________________________________________________________________
2d. Re: Photos From The Barriger Library: Cease & Desist?
Posted by: "Charles Peck" lnnrr152@... lnnrr
Date: Wed Jul 5, 2017 9:41 am ((PDT))

Mr. Haycock does not speak for me. I appreciate the photos and discussions
as I can never learn too much.
Even what I thought I knew can be reaffirmed or corrected.
Chuck Peck