Date   
Re: Photos From The Barriger Library: Cease & Desist?

rwitt_2000
 

Keep it up ...

You found a photo of PFE reefers and asked about hatch rests and others saw the B&O passenger train in the background.

The more eyes looking at the collection the more we will find in this collection so I re-posted this link to the B&O Yahoo Group.

Bob Witt

Re: Item On PFE Reefer Roof

Todd Sullivan
 

Bruce and all, as an additional note ...

The 'roof rib' style hatch rests are included in Red Caboose kits of wood sheathed PFE reefers that come without the full wooden hatch walkways around the hatches.

Todd Sullivan


---In STMFC@..., <smithbf@...> wrote :

Tom,

As Bill has already noted, these are hatch rests.  They kept the hatches from damaging the roof and the roof from damaging the hatch, especially the latching and grab iron hardware on the hatches. Careful examination will show that these are on most refrigerator cars, especially those with steel roofs.  “Our Companies” (FGE, BRE, WEF, National) had a unique design that is quite recognizable if you know it.  These PFE hatch rests appear to be simply extra height ribs.


Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



Re: Photos From The Barriger Library: Cease & Desist?

James L. Jeffery
 

The photos are helpful for a lot of reasons. They are history and help in modeling.
Jim Jeffery
Puyallup, WA


From: "thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, July 5, 2017 8:44:48 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Photos From The Barriger Library: Cease & Desist?





I received the request below from Scott H. Haycock as a spokesperson for this group.


 


I was a bit surprised as many of you have corresponded with me off-list, thanking me for posting Barriger Library and other photos with related questions and comments.


 


And some of you have used the photos to point out additional items of interest and background which has added to the overall body of knowledge.


 


So group, what say you?


 


Bob Chaparro


Hemet, CA


++++


 


Bob,


 


Cease and desist! We all know about the Barriger Library.


 


Many of the questions you ask have been covered in the past on this list. Do some research within this list's file section. A hint: JPEGS, PDFs, & EXEL files are listed by date, but then by file types.


 


scroll down to each different file type section.


 


Unless you have a specific question about a specific image, you're wasting everyone's time.


 


You can contact me if you need any clarification.


 


Scott Haycock


Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantment.




Photos From The Barriger Library: Cease & Desist?

thecitrusbelt@...
 

I received the request below from Scott H. Haycock as a spokesperson for this group.

 

I was a bit surprised as many of you have corresponded with me off-list, thanking me for posting Barriger Library and other photos with related questions and comments.

 

And some of you have used the photos to point out additional items of interest and background which has added to the overall body of knowledge.

 

So group, what say you?

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

++++

 

Bob,

 

Cease and desist! We all know about the Barriger Library.

 

Many of the questions you ask have been covered in the past on this list. Do some research within this list's file section. A hint: JPEGS, PDFs, & EXEL files are listed by date, but then by file types.

 

scroll down to each different file type section.

 

Unless you have a specific question about a specific image, you're wasting everyone's time.

 

You can contact me if you need any clarification.

 

Scott Haycock

Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantment.

Re: Item On PFE Reefer Roof

rwitt_2000
 

Bruce,

The hatch rests do appear to be free standing above the roof "rib" as there is a "L" shaped bracket used to fasten it to the side of the car. From this photo, I am not sure how it is fastened at the running boards.

Bob Witt

Re: Item On PFE Reefer Roof

Bruce Smith
 

Tom,

As Bill has already noted, these are hatch rests.  They kept the hatches from damaging the roof and the roof from damaging the hatch, especially the latching and grab iron hardware on the hatches. Careful examination will show that these are on most refrigerator cars, especially those with steel roofs.  “Our Companies” (FGE, BRE, WEF, National) had a unique design that is quite recognizable if you know it.  These PFE hatch rests appear to be simply extra height ribs.


Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Jul 5, 2017, at 10:02 AM, Tom Cataldo cataldotj@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



Maybe the  p F e book got the answer

     Tom

On Tuesday, July 4, 2017, thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



In this photo from the Barriger Library I noticed items near the end of the roof paralleling the roof ribs:

 



 


The other reefer also has them. Is this some sort of stop for a fully open bunker hatch or does it serve some other purpose?

 


Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA




-- 
Thomas  j Cataldo




Re: PRR 503530

Bruce Smith
 

Todd,

As Ben noted, these cars did not have specialized load handling equipment, so, when needed, they could be used to haul any cargo that needed a boxcar.  That meant that they did travel off-road with some frequency, but it should also be clear that the off-road travel was NOT for LCL.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Jul 5, 2017, at 9:38 AM, Todd Horton toddchorton@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



How common was it for these cars to travel off line?  I have a photo of a C of G freight train at Perry Ga in Oct 1952 with one of the Merchandise Service X29's in it. 
 
Todd Horton

Re: PRR 503530

Benjamin Hom
 

Todd Horton asked:
"How common was it for these cars to travel off line? I have a photo of a C of G freight train at Perry Ga in Oct 1952 with one of the Merchandise Service X29's in it."

As I stated in my previous post, the Class X29 boxcars in MS2 were plain boxcars, so they weren't specifically assigned to LCL and could appear anywhere you'd send a boxcar. Think of these more as a rolling billboard and less of a car specifically assigned to LCL service.

For that matter, far more LCL was handled in plain boxcars than all of the North American railroads' specially painted and equipped cars combined.


Ben Hom

Re: Item On PFE Reefer Roof

tjcataldo
 

Maybe the  p F e book got the answer

     Tom

On Tuesday, July 4, 2017, thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

In this photo from the Barriger Library I noticed items near the end of the roof paralleling the roof ribs:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/15541481269/in/dateposted/

 

The other reefer also has them. Is this some sort of stop for a fully open bunker hatch or does it serve some other purpose?

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA



--
Thomas  j Cataldo

Modeling like a PROtotype Meet

gtws00
 

The NMRA Michiana Division is having a 2 day event "Modeling like a PROtotype" on Sept 22nd and 23rd at Notre Dame in Indiana,'I see that they have Clinics running for both days and two workshops,  Weathering with Dave Schroedle and Tony Sissons will have a workshop as well. 

Here is a link for info


http://michiana-nmra.org/con2017-1.html


I have been told by Dave Schroedle that this has been growing each year and is very much like an RPM meet.


George Toman


Re: PRR 503530

Todd Horton
 

How common was it for these cars to travel off line?  I have a photo of a C of G freight train at Perry Ga in Oct 1952 with one of the Merchandise Service X29's in it. 
 
Todd Horton



From: "'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]"
To: "STMFC@..."
Sent: Wednesday, July 5, 2017 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] PRR 503530

 
Al,

Correct, This was an expedited on-line LCL service that included trucks for pick-up and delivery.  Cars were painted in a special paint scheme.

Phase 1 - Aluminum band, white trim, circle keystone (8/47-1/50)
Phase 2 - white band, circle keystone (1/50-5/54)
Phase 3 - white band, shadow keystone (5/54-11/57)

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith            
Auburn, AL
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Jul 5, 2017, at 8:57 AM, Al Kresse water.kresse@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Merchandise Service +Less than Car Load Service of the 1950's??  Two tone paint job to advertise the service?

Al Kresse



Re: PRR 503530

Benjamin Hom
 

Bob Chaparro asked:
"Another photo from the Barriger Library:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/15604835363/in/dateposted/ 
Is this an X29 in merchandise service? I believe the car number is 503530.

Bruce Smith replied:
"Given that it is lettered “MERCHANDISE SERVICE” and is at a PRR freight house… I’d have to give you a thumbs up on that one ;)  Nice X31A parked behind it as well. Of course, the caveat has to be that Merchandise Service cars were often used for other purposes later in life, but this certainly appears to fit the bill."

The other caveat applying to these specific Class X29 boxcars is they're plain boxcars lacking the special LCL handling equipment for the Class X29B and Class X41 subclass Merchandise Service cars, so these cars may or may not be carrying LCL.


Al Kresse asked:  

"Merchandise Service [=] Less than Car Load Service of the 1950's??  Two tone paint job to advertise the service?"

Correct regarding PRR Merchandise Service as expedited LCL; not quite correct regarding the paint schemes.  Class X29B, X41 subclasses, and possibly (not confirmed by photos) X26C cars equipped with LCL handling equipment got a four-color paint scheme (Freight Car Color body, white stripe and Keystone trimmed with aluminum striping, Toluidine Red Keystone background and "Merchandise Service" lettering shading; MS1 in Brady McGuire's PRR boxcar lettering lexicon).  The plain Class X29 boxcars received a simplified version of this scheme, with white band and Keystone only painted on a Freight Car Color body (MS2).  This would be later updated with a Shadow Keystone (MS3).

One final caveat regarding MS2: cars repainted in the scheme are scattered throughout the various Class X29 number series.  I haven't found any evidence that specific number blocks of cars were repainted, so if you want to absolutely sure that a particular car number was painted in MS2, model from a photo.

Few cars appeared to be painted in MS3 - I've only come across photos of four cars (3 X29 and 1 X41), so that Red Caboose 12-pack in your stash is probably unlikely.


Ben Hom   

Re: PRR 503530

Bruce Smith
 

Al,

Correct, This was an expedited on-line LCL service that included trucks for pick-up and delivery.  Cars were painted in a special paint scheme.

Phase 1 - Aluminum band, white trim, circle keystone (8/47-1/50)
Phase 2 - white band, circle keystone (1/50-5/54)
Phase 3 - white band, shadow keystone (5/54-11/57)

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Jul 5, 2017, at 8:57 AM, Al Kresse water.kresse@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Merchandise Service +Less than Car Load Service of the 1950's??  Two tone paint job to advertise the service?


Al Kresse


Re: PRR 503530

Dennis Storzek
 

Well, it's spotted at a PRR freighthouse, so that would be my conclusion.


---In STMFC@..., <thecitrusbelt@...> wrote :

Another photo from the Barriger Library:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/15604835363/in/dateposted/

 

Is this an X29 in merchandise service? I believe the car number is 503530.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: PRR 503530

Al Kresse <water.kresse@...>
 

Merchandise Service +Less than Car Load Service of the 1950's??  Two tone paint job to advertise the service?


Al Kresse

On July 5, 2017 at 8:59 AM "'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Well Bob,


Given that it is lettered “MERCHANDISE SERVICE” and is at a PRR freight house… I’d have to give you a thumbs up on that one ;)  Nice X31A parked behind it as well. Of course, the caveat has to be that Merchandise Service cars were often used for other purposes later in life, but this certainly appears to fit the bill.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Jul 5, 2017, at 1:48 AM, thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
Another photo from the Barriger Library:
Is this an X29 in merchandise service? I believe the car number is 503530.
Bob Chaparro

 


 

Re: PRR 503530

Bruce Smith
 

Well Bob,

Given that it is lettered “MERCHANDISE SERVICE” and is at a PRR freight house… I’d have to give you a thumbs up on that one ;)  Nice X31A parked behind it as well. Of course, the caveat has to be that Merchandise Service cars were often used for other purposes later in life, but this certainly appears to fit the bill.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Jul 5, 2017, at 1:48 AM, thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
Another photo from the Barriger Library:
Is this an X29 in merchandise service? I believe the car number is 503530.
Bob Chaparro

Re: Item On PFE Reefer Roof

Bill Welch
 

I am pretty sure it is a Hatch Rest meant to protect the roof from being damaged by the hardware on the surface of the hatch.

Bill Welch

PRR 503530

thecitrusbelt@...
 

Another photo from the Barriger Library:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/15604835363/in/dateposted/

 

Is this an X29 in merchandise service? I believe the car number is 503530.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Item On PFE Reefer Roof

thecitrusbelt@...
 

In this photo from the Barriger Library I noticed items near the end of the roof paralleling the roof ribs:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/15541481269/in/dateposted/

 

The other reefer also has them. Is this some sort of stop for a fully open bunker hatch or does it serve some other purpose?

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: Two more Gondolas with coiled end corrugations Plus a Hutchins end Gon

John Barry
 

Dennis, Ray, 

Thank you both!  

Checking the Jan 45 ORER, the post war depletion had yet to occur with the following:

CIL 31000, GB, 292 cars
CIL 32400, GS, 743
CIL 33300, GS, 233

SOO 63801, GB, 496 wood floor, 1 steel floor
SOO 7001, GB, 249 

The inward facing pressings on the 7001 series reduced the inside length and capacity compared to the other cars 40'10 vice 41'6 for the rest with a commensurate reduction in cubic capacity.

For my Christmas 44 layout, it seems reasonable that I could see one of the 1268 Monon or 746 SOO cars.

It could be an interesting model.

John
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "destorzek@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, July 4, 2017 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Two more Gondolas with coiled end corrugations Plus a Hutchins end Gon

 



---In STMFC@..., wrote :

These can be considered THE standard Monon freight car for the steam era; nearly a quarter (1476 of 6184 freight cars) of their entire freight car fleet in 1930 was made up of these cars, which were essentially "Improved USRA" clones.

31000-31299 - built by the CI&L shops, 1922
32400-33299 - built 1923
33300-33599 - built by Pullman, 7/1923

The cars mostly didn't survive WWII, with only 525 of the cars left in 1945. Per the Monon's 1947 diagram book, only a few were left as captive service stone cars in the 4601-4716 series, with none at all showing up in the revenue roster.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL
==============================

I've been away for a couple days, just catching up, had to read thro! ugh to see how the turnout discussion turned out :-)

There were two more groups of gondolas built with these ends:

500 tight bottom cars (GB) built by Haskell & Barker in 1921 as Lot 5209 for the Clarkson Coal Mining Co. These cars went to the Soo Line in 1927 as 63801-64799 (odd numbers only).

250 tight bottom cars (GB) built by Pullman Car & Manufacturing Co. (the former Haskell & Barker Michigan City plant) in 1923 as Lot 5345 for the Soo Line, numbered 7001-7499 (odd numbers only). 

Between the two groups, the end pressings faced inward on the 1921 cars, outward on the 1923 order.

I suspect this was a Haskell & Barker proprietary end. When I was organizing the H&B drawing collection at the Pullman Library, I found more information on these ends than on any others; detailed drawings of the pressings that I seem to recall were marked as being for the pressing dies.

I do not recall any other lots using this end, unless some other road ordered just ends for a home shop car building program, this would see! m to be the total of cars using this end.

Dennis Storzek