Date   
Tank Car Paint Scheme

thecitrusbelt@...
 

On this photo from the Barriger Library I noticed a GATX tank car, possibly GATX 16775, has a white end:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/15600742871/in/dateposted/

 

Does anyone know who this car was leased to and if the white painted ends were very common?

 

By the way, the string of locomotives in the photo is the Prosperity Special.

 

Thanks.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: Soda Pop Bottling Plants

James Babcock
 

The "C" in C&H is California. They had a large plant in Orange County which refined sugar beets.
Like Oranges, lemons, and grapefruit, not much commercial ag left in the county.
Jim

--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 7/2/17, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [STMFC] Soda Pop Bottling Plants
To: STMFC@...
Date: Sunday, July 2, 2017, 10:15 PM


 









Dave Parker  wrote:















 



Thanks Tony. 
One does learn something new every day.  Was the C&H
sugar locally grown (beet sugar), or did it arrive from
warmer climes by boat
(cane)?
         As the C&H Sugar slogan
for many years was, "Pure Cane Sugar from Hawaii"
(that's the "H" in C&H), it definitely
arrived by boat. Until recently, I know it still did. Ships
arriving at Crockett today seem to be some kind of tanker,
so I surmise that crude sugar liquor from partial processing
is involved, rather than shipping cane stalks as was
formerly done. The C&H website today talks about
"refining" sugar.          I have looked
for some years to find out where the SP tank cars of
"liquid sugar" were going, and still don't
have particular information. But I will add, for those who
don't already know, that the tank cars were modified
with different outlet valves and with removal of heater
coils (if any), so that they were SUITABLE for sugar
service. Many such cars carried all kinds of other cargoes
(of course with intermediate cleaning), so the "S"
on the dome only meant that the car had been so modified,
not that it was necessarily carrying
sugar.







Tony Thompson          
  Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA
94705         www.signaturepress.com(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@... of books on railroad
history
















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Re: New Tangent Tank Cars

Brian LaManna
 

Dave and List,


I try to stay up to date on most of the pertinent transition era blogs and I caught your post on the GATC '17 radial cars when it was first posted.  Between your blog post and the Sunshine Models info sheet on these cars, I have a basic understanding of ownership (that arguably still scratches the surface).  Last night I reread R Hendrickson's stellar article on multi-compartment tank cars in a Model Railroad Hobbyist from '15.  A similar article on the GATC '17 radial and insulated cars would be greatly appreciated -- I simply can't make it to all these great RPMs -- but I realize such an endeavor involves a lot of time and resources.  I figured I'd try and reach out here and see if anyone else had info to add to the dialogue.  While a Warren car would probably serve my purposes (or a GATX one for that matter), I was primarily curious if any regional owner/lessees in the NJ/NY/PA area had a decent fleet of these in the '52-'58 time frame.  I know that David from Tangent did a presentation on these cars at the STL RPM and was hoping to glean some info secondhand from any attendees.  


Again, fine blog article and I appreciate any and all info.  

Brian LaManna


From: STMFC@... on behalf of Dave Parker spottab@... [STMFC]
Sent: July 2, 2017 4:50:36 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: New Tangent Tank Cars
 
 

Brian:

I don't have any idea what David might have up his sleeve with respect to future offerings of the 1917 GATC radial cars.  But, I did comment on what some likely candidates might (should?) be in my review of a couple of the uninsulated cars that were released last fall:



My comments only pertained to the 8000 gals cars; there were also 10,000 cars that would enjoy some different applications.

I have not delved into the insulated cars at all, so I cannot comment on what might be useful (or forthcoming) in that regard.

Hope this helps,

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA







On Sunday, July 2, 2017 12:10 PM, "Brian LaManna brianlamanna@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
List,

I realize that Tangent most likely doesn't want to tip their hand in relation to future runs of this car, but I'm wondering if anyone else might know of other private companies/lessors /lessees that owned these specific cars (besides GATX)?  I appreciated the articles in Railmodel Journal on new model releases (such as the ones authored by R. Hendrickson and E. Hawkins) that had extensive photos  and rosters of the prototypes.  I realize that tank cars are a much more difficult beast to pin down but I'd be grateful for any information on these specific cars.  As well, I'm grateful to Tangent for continuing to offer cars that are applicable for our modelling era(s) and look forward to future offerings including more Type 17 radial course tanks cars.

Cheers,

Brian LaManna/Moncton, NB

From: STMFC@... Sent: July 1, 2017 6:40:06 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: New Tangent Tank Cars
 
 
Thanks Tony.  Yeah, I started out commenting on the customer service practices, especially the prompt shipping (AND getting the order right the first time), but quickly shifted gears into the products themsleves.  I also appreciate that David is a regular and contributing member of this list and that he and his partners are willing to listen to our desires for steam era freight cars and then deliver them!  To me, that falls into the Business Practices end of the spectrum. 

This latest ofering is definitely not your grandfather's tank car model.  :)
  


Re: questions regarding H0 scale W&R tank car, specific offering

Bruce Smith
 

Johannes,

Given that I don’t model MKT, I have no idea ;)  However, if I were to hazard a guess, that looks like early lettering, so probably pre WWII.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Jul 2, 2017, at 6:25 AM, j.markwart@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



Many thanks, Bruce. One more issue: -for how long would the lettering M.K.&T.Ry have been in use? All engines and rolling stock I have seen at pictures of the transition era were lettered just MKT or "The Katy" - but I am by now means an expert on this.
 
Many greetings
 
Johannes
 
Gesendet: Sonntag, 02. Juli 2017 um 03:19 Uhr
Von: "'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
An: "STMFC@..." <STMFC@...>
Betreff: Re: [STMFC] questions regarding H0 scale W&R tank car, specific offering
 

Johannes,

 

That car would really probably only be appropriate for someone modeling MKT.  Railroad owned tanks cars rarely if ever made it off line.  They were typically in some sort of company service, although a small number were used in commercial interchange service.

 

Regards

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of j.markwart@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2017 4:00 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] questions regarding H0 scale W&R tank car, specific offering
 


Hello friends,

I found the following offer of a W&R tank car:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/M-K-T-Katy-High-Walkway-Tank-Car-1-Dome-W-R-Enterprises-AC-F-6-000-GAL/282541463687?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

-which in my eyes looks very nice and just needs weathering.
But as I have even less knowledge about tank cars compared to other cars, I have the following questions:
- is this a prototypical paint job correct for this car?
- does it match my time frame of late 1940s to early 1950s?
- could this car be seen in a(ny) typical freight train, or is it something special (e. g. fuel car mostly sitting in a depot, etc.)?

Many thanks

Johannes
 
 
 



Re: NYC Steel Boxcars was NYC S98656

Bruce Smith
 

Don,

This car has been discussed, including the models, ad nauseam on this list.  I suggest that you do an archive search for “NYC steel USRA” or something similar.  The short of it is that the BLI model is an accurate model of a car with a modernized roof, which started to be applied just prior to WWII.  The BLI car is NOT appropriate to represent the entire fleet of these cars as there were many variants over the years, and almost everyone needs more than one (just like PRR X29s).

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Jul 2, 2017, at 6:51 AM, 'Don Burn' burn@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Anyone have comments on the accuracy / quality of the BLI model?  

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2017 7:49 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NYC Steel Boxcars was NYC S98656



Makes sense as the styrene Broadway Limited release would have killed sales of a resin kit. Maybe it will be available again at some point/

Bill Welch






------------------------------------
Posted by: "Don Burn" <burn@...>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

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Re: Soda Pop Bottling Plants

Dave Parker
 

Garth:

I'm out of my depth here but, if I believe Wiki, brown sugar can be made from either unrefined (or partially refined) cane, or by blending molasses and fully refined white sugar.  Apparently, raw beet sugar doesn't contain molasses that is "fit for human consumption", so it sounds like at least some brown sugar is made by blending molasses from cane and white sugar from beets?

I don't know if this has any implications tank car usage, as all of this processing and blending could in theory have been done in house.

On another note, I checked my pre-war collection of ICC freight statistics.  In that period, the three categories of sugar listed were:

Sugar (beet or cane)
Table syrups and edible molasses
Blackstrap molasses and beet residual

The first category was certainly the largest but, in 1935, the last two ran about 19,000 and 14,000 carloads per year, respectively.  I believe the last category mostly went into animal feeds.  Corn syrup was not separately listed during this period.

Dave Parker
Riverside




On Monday, July 3, 2017 5:23 AM, "santafe@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
I must apologize to all, when I read the original question yesterday I was in an information overload mode and I did realize what era I was responding to .
I model the early 50s and early 70s and I became twisted, so sorry.
best regards,
Gary McMills 



----- Original Message -----
From:
STMFC@...

To:
Cc:

Sent:
Mon, 3 Jul 2017 04:53:16 -0400
Subject:
Re: [STMFC] Soda Pop Bottling Plants


 
Dave,

C&H white sugar was made from Hawaiian cane. C&H had their own ship (or ships) which made round trips between Crockett and wherever they loaded the cane in Hawaii. The plant's operation was tied to the ship's schedule, and (IIRC) the production department worked a ten-day "campaign" processing the sugar, then took four days off.

When I toured their plant in the 1960s, I learned that C&H brown sugar was actually made from beets since cane doesn't make very good brown sugar. I know nothing about the beet sources, but the product was either contracted out or C&H had a beet plant elsewhere. I don't think the Crockett plant produced brown sugar, as it is quite a different process and beet sugar plants usually have huge and obvious piles of waste, which I didn't see at Crockett. Despite this, the brown sugar packages all said, "Pure Cane Sugar from Hawaii."

Incidentally, C&H recycled every drop of liquid collected from leaking pipes (in buckets) and even their mop water back into the sugar process. Sounds gross, but it was boiled and centrifuged, so everything came out clean.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 7/2/17 9:48 PM, Dave Parker spottab@... [STMFC] wrote:
 
Thanks Tony.  One does learn something new every day.  Was the C&H sugar locally grown (beet sugar), or did it arrive from warmer climes by boat (cane)?

As I qualified, "my understanding is...".  I think it would take quite a bit of digging to unravel how much sucrose was transported nationally in syrup vs  granular form, and it might very well be era-dependent.

Fortunately, the chemical side of it is comparatively clear.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


On Sunday, July 2, 2017 6:30 PM, "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Dave Parker wrote:

 

Sucrose (beet or cane sugar) is indeed a combination of glucose and fructose; it's a chemical combination - a disaccharide -- comprised of one molecule of each.  In the food and beverage industry, they don't get separated until the reach your GI tract.  My understanding is that sucrose is not soluble enough to make transporting it as a syrup economical, so it has historically been shipped to soft drink (or other) plants in granular form.

        This last statement would have come as quite a surprise to both Southern Pacific, which modified a couple of hundred tank cars for "liquid sugar" service (meaning concentrated sucrose) and to C & H Sugar, which shipped it that way from Crockett for decades. C&H of course produced cane sugar. Those were the familiar SP tank cars with the diamond "S" on the dome.
         A former employee told me the "liquid sugar" was fairly thick, or as he said, "goopy." I know nothing beyond that as to the state of that product.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history










Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Re: PRR X43B Power Hand Brake Question

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Yes, "power" meant geared. Every motion of the brakewheel applied more motion to tightening the brakes than would be otherwise, with a "simple" brake assembly, where each movement was translated to the rod assemblies 1-for-1.

Take apart a "power" brake housing and you'll see it for yourself.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, June 30, 2017 8:01 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [STMFC] Re: PRR X43B Power Hand Brake Question



Yes, that meant "geared" I think. Tom Birkett, Bartlesville, OK.



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S® 6, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Andy Jackson @lajrmdlr [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
Date: 6/30/17 1:59 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: PRR X43B Power Hand Brake Question



Did freight cars have "power" hand brakes?

Andy Jackson
Santa Fe Springs CA

Re: Soda Pop Bottling Plants

Gary McMills
 

I must apologize to all, when I read the original question yesterday I was in an information overload mode and I did realize what era I was responding to .

I model the early 50s and early 70s and I became twisted, so sorry.

best regards,

Gary McMills 



----- Original Message -----
From:
STMFC@...

To:

Cc:

Sent:
Mon, 3 Jul 2017 04:53:16 -0400
Subject:
Re: [STMFC] Soda Pop Bottling Plants


 

Dave,

C&H white sugar was made from Hawaiian cane. C&H had their own ship (or ships) which made round trips between Crockett and wherever they loaded the cane in Hawaii. The plant's operation was tied to the ship's schedule, and (IIRC) the production department worked a ten-day "campaign" processing the sugar, then took four days off.

When I toured their plant in the 1960s, I learned that C&H brown sugar was actually made from beets since cane doesn't make very good brown sugar. I know nothing about the beet sources, but the product was either contracted out or C&H had a beet plant elsewhere. I don't think the Crockett plant produced brown sugar, as it is quite a different process and beet sugar plants usually have huge and obvious piles of waste, which I didn't see at Crockett. Despite this, the brown sugar packages all said, "Pure Cane Sugar from Hawaii."

Incidentally, C&H recycled every drop of liquid collected from leaking pipes (in buckets) and even their mop water back into the sugar process. Sounds gross, but it was boiled and centrifuged, so everything came out clean.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 7/2/17 9:48 PM, Dave Parker spottab@... [STMFC] wrote:
 
Thanks Tony.  One does learn something new every day.  Was the C&H sugar locally grown (beet sugar), or did it arrive from warmer climes by boat (cane)?

As I qualified, "my understanding is...".  I think it would take quite a bit of digging to unravel how much sucrose was transported nationally in syrup vs  granular form, and it might very well be era-dependent.

Fortunately, the chemical side of it is comparatively clear.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


On Sunday, July 2, 2017 6:30 PM, "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Dave Parker wrote:

 

Sucrose (beet or cane sugar) is indeed a combination of glucose and fructose; it's a chemical combination - a disaccharide -- comprised of one molecule of each.  In the food and beverage industry, they don't get separated until the reach your GI tract.  My understanding is that sucrose is not soluble enough to make transporting it as a syrup economical, so it has historically been shipped to soft drink (or other) plants in granular form.

        This last statement would have come as quite a surprise to both Southern Pacific, which modified a couple of hundred tank cars for "liquid sugar" service (meaning concentrated sucrose) and to C & H Sugar, which shipped it that way from Crockett for decades. C&H of course produced cane sugar. Those were the familiar SP tank cars with the diamond "S" on the dome.
         A former employee told me the "liquid sugar" was fairly thick, or as he said, "goopy." I know nothing beyond that as to the state of that product.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history








More of Frank Hodina's models

Eric Hansmann
 

Frank Hodina shares another round of images on the Resin Car Works blog. These feature more of his HO scale freight cars. Check it out!

http://blog.resincarworks.com/franks-models-pt-2/




Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy

Re: SFRD Reefers in Florida, Loading Tomatoes

Bill Welch
 

I discovered this collection soon after moving to Clearwater in 2009 and did not realize it was online now. Made a couple of trips to scan images. Use terms like "Loading" and "Bananas" to view scenes of transloading from boats to reefers. Neat, neat, neat!

Bill Welch

Re: Soda Pop Bottling Plants

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Dave,

C&H white sugar was made from Hawaiian cane. C&H had their own ship (or ships) which made round trips between Crockett and wherever they loaded the cane in Hawaii. The plant's operation was tied to the ship's schedule, and (IIRC) the production department worked a ten-day "campaign" processing the sugar, then took four days off.

When I toured their plant in the 1960s, I learned that C&H brown sugar was actually made from beets since cane doesn't make very good brown sugar. I know nothing about the beet sources, but the product was either contracted out or C&H had a beet plant elsewhere. I don't think the Crockett plant produced brown sugar, as it is quite a different process and beet sugar plants usually have huge and obvious piles of waste, which I didn't see at Crockett. Despite this, the brown sugar packages all said, "Pure Cane Sugar from Hawaii."

Incidentally, C&H recycled every drop of liquid collected from leaking pipes (in buckets) and even their mop water back into the sugar process. Sounds gross, but it was boiled and centrifuged, so everything came out clean.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 7/2/17 9:48 PM, Dave Parker spottab@... [STMFC] wrote:
 
Thanks Tony.  One does learn something new every day.  Was the C&H sugar locally grown (beet sugar), or did it arrive from warmer climes by boat (cane)?

As I qualified, "my understanding is...".  I think it would take quite a bit of digging to unravel how much sucrose was transported nationally in syrup vs  granular form, and it might very well be era-dependent.

Fortunately, the chemical side of it is comparatively clear.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


On Sunday, July 2, 2017 6:30 PM, "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Dave Parker wrote:

 

Sucrose (beet or cane sugar) is indeed a combination of glucose and fructose; it's a chemical combination - a disaccharide -- comprised of one molecule of each.  In the food and beverage industry, they don't get separated until the reach your GI tract.  My understanding is that sucrose is not soluble enough to make transporting it as a syrup economical, so it has historically been shipped to soft drink (or other) plants in granular form.

        This last statement would have come as quite a surprise to both Southern Pacific, which modified a couple of hundred tank cars for "liquid sugar" service (meaning concentrated sucrose) and to C & H Sugar, which shipped it that way from Crockett for decades. C&H of course produced cane sugar. Those were the familiar SP tank cars with the diamond "S" on the dome.
         A former employee told me the "liquid sugar" was fairly thick, or as he said, "goopy." I know nothing beyond that as to the state of that product.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history








Re: Soda Pop Bottling Plants

D. Scott Chatfield
 

I think most corn syrup shipments pre-1975 (pre-HFCS) went to large bakeries and canneries, not bottling plants.

To put things in perspective, in the early '50s (I forget exactly which year) the railroads handled on average 16 loads of corn syrup per day.  I don't know what the average turn time of a syrup tank was then, but if they made 12 trips a year there were about 480 syrup tanks in service.  Even if there were a thousand it was a tiny fleet compared to today.

Something tank cars might have hauled to bottling plants back then was liquid sugar.  But my guess is granular sugar was most common and probably came in large bags before the advent of the Airslide hopper circa 1955.  And only big bottling plants could justify a pneumatic unloading system in those days.

Coke bottlers had to buy their sugar along with the concentrate (called syrup as well) from Coca Cola.  If they also bottled non-Coke products they could buy their sugar _for those products_ on the open market.  My understanding is the other big soda makers (Pepsi, RC, Dr. Pepper, Canada Dry, etc) did not sell sugar.

Scott Chatfield

C&H Sugar refinery

Andy Carlson
 

Actually, the now closed Hamilton City, California sugar refinery was a Holly sugar beet operation. C&H has always had just a single refinery (the Crocket plant visible from the I-80 tool bridge). In addition, C&H has ALWAYS been cane sugar. Though they no longer advertise "Pure Cane sugar from Hawaii" (as they received their last raw cane from Hawaii last year- now all cane comes from Australia and other South Pacific  locations. Because of the cane sugar content, their sugar was the preferred brand for candy making as the rechristallization problems associated with beet sugar were far less an issue with the cane-derived product.

Th Holly plant had (may still have) a former SP Alco S6 diesel switcher which was built in the STMFC era. in the 1980s I would railfan the SP sugar beet unit trains coming down from Klamath Falls, OR to Hamilton city. The wye had a leg removed from the Wye, so the trains needed to be backed into H.C. Which wasn't a problem, as 2 STMFC era SD9s were on each end. The Holly Alco S6 would push two cars at a time up the unloader. I know now why oldtimers would pine for the old days when I was a youngster, as I too am a piner!
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA



From: "'Gary Ray' gerber1926@... [STMFC]"

 
Until a few years ago, there was a C&H sugar beet plant in Hamilton City (CA).  I’m sure other can tell you about other locations.  When I lived in Bakersfield in the early ‘60’s, sugar beets were loaded north of Bakersfied near Shafter as I recall.
Gary Ray
 









 



 
 

 

 

 
 
 
 







Re: Soda Pop Bottling Plants

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Tim,



At least to a degree, that "additional refining" was mostly putting the
brown sugar (still with the molasses in it) into a centrifuge which when it
spun, turned the sugar pure white, and threw the heavier molasses off into
drainage to be bottled. It was a very surprising phenomenon. I saw this
first-hand, as the A-E firm I was working for in San Francisco had Spreckels
Sugar as a client. The tour I saw this on was in the Woodland CA plant
(then also home to Precision Scale, but I didn't know that then). I also
saw pretty much the same process in their plant in Spreckels, CA, down near
Salinas. IIRC, there was lots of sugar cane being delivered to the plant by
the SP. IOW, in FREIGHT CARS.



Schuyler




Not many cooks on the STMFC list?

Tony is correct about SP. But let us not forget that MOLASSES comes from
sugar cane - it only becomes granular white sugar after additional refining.
I suspect that a fair amount of molasses was shipped in tank cars, as it has
uses just as it is. Molasses is also sometimes a product of factories that
produce wood products. The factory in Duluth that made Masonite (R) had a
spur for loading tank cars with molasses.

Tim O'Connor







Dave Parker wrote:




Sucrose (beet or cane sugar) is indeed a combination of glucose and
fructose; it's a chemical combination - a disaccharide -- comprised of one
molecule of each. In the food and beverage industry, they don't get
separated until the reach your GI tract. My understanding is that sucrose
is not soluble enough to make transporting it as a syrup economical, so it
has historically been shipped to soft drink (or other) plants in granular
form.


This last statement would have come as quite a surprise to both
Southern Pacific, which modified a couple of hundred tank cars for "liquid
sugar" service (meaning concentrated sucrose) and to C & H Sugar, which
shipped it that way from Crockett for decades. C&H of course produced cane
sugar. Those were the familiar SP tank cars with the diamond "S" on the
dome.
A former employee told me the "liquid sugar" was fairly thick, or
as he said, "goopy." I know nothing beyond that as to the state of that
product.

Tony Thompson

Re: Soda Pop Bottling Plants

Gary Ray
 

Until a few years ago, there was a C&H sugar beet plant in Hamilton City (CA).  I’m sure other can tell you about other locations.  When I lived in Bakersfield in the early ‘60’s, sugar beets were loaded north of Bakersfied near Shafter as I recall.

Gary Ray

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 2, 2017 6:48 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Soda Pop Bottling Plants

 




Thanks Tony.  One does learn something new every day.  Was the C&H sugar locally grown (beet sugar), or did it arrive from warmer climes by boat (cane)?



As I qualified, "my understanding is...".  I think it would take quite a bit of digging to unravel how much sucrose was transported nationally in syrup vs  granular form, and it might very well be era-dependent.



Fortunately, the chemical side of it is comparatively clear.



Dave Parker

Riverside, CA

 

On Sunday, July 2, 2017 6:30 PM, "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

 

Dave Parker wrote:



 

 

Sucrose (beet or cane sugar) is indeed a combination of glucose and fructose; it's a chemical combination - a disaccharide -- comprised of one molecule of each.  In the food and beverage industry, they don't get separated until the reach your GI tract.  My understanding is that sucrose is not soluble enough to make transporting it as a syrup economical, so it has historically been shipped to soft drink (or other) plants in granular form.

 

        This last statement would have come as quite a surprise to both Southern Pacific, which modified a couple of hundred tank cars for "liquid sugar" service (meaning concentrated sucrose) and to C & H Sugar, which shipped it that way from Crockett for decades. C&H of course produced cane sugar. Those were the familiar SP tank cars with the diamond "S" on the dome.

         A former employee told me the "liquid sugar" was fairly thick, or as he said, "goopy." I know nothing beyond that as to the state of that product.

 

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com

(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...

Publishers of books on railroad history

 

 

 

 

 






more sugar !

Tim O'Connor
 


Seems like we could all benefit from sugar facts. Found this fine
1959 report on all types of sugars (they call corn syrup dextrose,
by the way) and compare the sources and types of sugars consumed
in the USA in the 1950's as well as lots of other info - probably
much more than Bob ever intended when he asked his question...

http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/usda/nass/SugaMarkSt//1950s/1959/SugaMarkSt-07-00-1959.pdf

In the late 50's corn sugar was about 20% of total US consumption but
production was booming! I'd forgotten about all the world wide quotas
over sugar production and exports!

Tim O'Connor

Re: Soda Pop Bottling Plants

Tim O'Connor
 


Not many cooks on the STMFC list?

Tony is correct about SP. But let us not forget that MOLASSES comes from
sugar cane - it only becomes granular white sugar after additional refining.
I suspect that a fair amount of molasses was shipped in tank cars, as it has
uses just as it is. Molasses is also sometimes a product of factories that
produce wood products. The factory in Duluth that made Masonite (R) had a
spur for loading tank cars with molasses.

Tim O'Connor






Dave Parker wrote:

Sucrose (beet or cane sugar) is indeed a combination of glucose and fructose; it's a chemical combination - a disaccharide -- comprised of one molecule of each.  In the food and beverage industry, they don't get separated until the reach your GI tract.  My understanding is that sucrose is not soluble enough to make transporting it as a syrup economical, so it has historically been shipped to soft drink (or other) plants in granular form.

        This last statement would have come as quite a surprise to both Southern Pacific, which modified a couple of hundred tank cars for "liquid sugar" service (meaning concentrated sucrose) and to C & H Sugar, which shipped it that way from Crockett for decades. C&H of course produced cane sugar. Those were the familiar SP tank cars with the diamond "S" on the dome.
         A former employee told me the "liquid sugar" was fairly thick, or as he said, "goopy." I know nothing beyond that as to the state of that product.

Tony Thompson

Re: Soda Pop Bottling Plants

Tim O'Connor
 

Dave

True, and I have first hand experience - I saw many bottlers/distributors
in Texas and elsewhere as a child, and not one of them had a rail connection.
(Yes, as a small child, I would definitely have noticed that.)

Not only is there far more soda now made, by I think the bottling is far more
concentrated and distribution reaches a much larger area than in the steam era.
In other words, there has been a change of scale.

Also as far as cans and bottles, Coca Cola was always in bottles when I was a
kid, and the bottles were usually returned, washed, and used again.



The original query from Bob Chaparro concerned small soda pop plants in the steam era.  My vote is still "no" on tank cars bringing in the sweetener, but I have not taken the time to delve into the history of the soft drink industry.  Somebody who is contemplating such traffic might wish to do so however.

Dave Parker

Re: Terminology

Tony Thompson
 

Kyle Coble wrote:

“… so as long as the listener or reader understands what the speaker or writer is communicating what on earth does the “proper” term matter?”


     This is kind of like the old saw, if you're going to do something, it's often no more trouble to do it right than to do it wrong. Why not do it right? Applies to freight car models and to terminology, IMO.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Soda Pop Bottling Plants

Tony Thompson
 

Dave Parker  wrote:

 
Thanks Tony.  One does learn something new every day.  Was the C&H sugar locally grown (beet sugar), or did it arrive from warmer climes by boat (cane)?

         As the C&H Sugar slogan for many years was, "Pure Cane Sugar from Hawaii" (that's the "H" in C&H), it definitely arrived by boat. Until recently, I know it still did. Ships arriving at Crockett today seem to be some kind of tanker, so I surmise that crude sugar liquor from partial processing is involved, rather than shipping cane stalks as was formerly done. The C&H website today talks about "refining" sugar.
          I have looked for some years to find out where the SP tank cars of "liquid sugar" were going, and still don't have particular information. But I will add, for those who don't already know, that the tank cars were modified with different outlet valves and with removal of heater coils (if any), so that they were SUITABLE for sugar service. Many such cars carried all kinds of other cargoes (of course with intermediate cleaning), so the "S" on the dome only meant that the car had been so modified, not that it was necessarily carrying sugar.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history