Date   
Re: Terminology

Alexander Schneider Jr
 

Niagara.

Alex Schneider 



Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "davidcofga@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
Date: 7/2/17 11:04 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Terminology

 
 
In a message dated 7/2/2017 12:20:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:
For example, is a 4-8-4 steam locomotive a "Northern";? Or is it an "FEF" or perhaps simply a "2900" or perhaps a "GS-4"?
 
Or "K Class" ... or "Big Apple" ...
 
DPayne
 

Re: Soda Pop Bottling Plants (Corn Syrup)

Dave Parker
 

Tim:

No, Bob is 95% correct here.

The sugar in your grandmother's corn syrup was glucose, which is trivially easy to derive from corn starch (there is no sugar to speak of in grain corn).

What was challenging was to convert to glucose into fructose, which eventually led to today's universal commercial sweetener, high-fructose corn syrup.  From Wiki:

"High-fructose corn syrup (HFCS) (also called glucose-fructose, isoglucose and glucose-fructose syrup[1][2]) is a sweetener made from corn starch that has been processed by glucose isomerase to convert some of its glucose into fructose. HFCS was first marketed in the early 1970s by the Clinton Corn Processing Company, together with the Japanese Agency of Industrial Science and Technology where the enzyme was discovered in 1965."

The rationale for HFCS is that glucose tastes less sweet than sucrose (cane or beet sugar), while fructose tastes sweeter.  The mixture tastes MOL like sucrose at the same total sugar concentration.  Also, I believe that the HFCS is considered easier to handle in the bottling plant than was granular sucrose.

How much KARO might have been transported in the time-frame of this list I cannot say, but I'll take a guess that it was minuscule compared to the HFCS being moved today.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA




On Sunday, July 2, 2017 11:02 AM, "Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Bob

??? You never heard of KARO corn syrup? My Mom always had some in the kitchen. It's
been available to consumers for a hundred years... Corn syrup is CHEAPER than cane sugar
and that is why it is so widely used in consumer "food" products. Yes production really ramped
up with the massive switch to factory prepared food-like substances.

Tim O'Connor





1. Although corn syrup was invented in 1812 in Russia, developmental work in the United States was carried out in the 1950s and 1960s, with shipments of the first commercial product to the food industry occurring in the late 1960s.
Bob Chaparro


Re: Soda Pop Bottling Plants (Corn Syrup)

Tim O'Connor
 

Bob

??? You never heard of KARO corn syrup? My Mom always had some in the kitchen. It's
been available to consumers for a hundred years... Corn syrup is CHEAPER than cane sugar
and that is why it is so widely used in consumer "food" products. Yes production really ramped
up with the massive switch to factory prepared food-like substances.

Tim O'Connor





1. Although corn syrup was invented in 1812 in Russia, developmental work in the United States was carried out in the 1950s and 1960s, with shipments of the first commercial product to the food industry occurring in the late 1960s.
Bob Chaparro

Re: Tank Cars On The SP

Tony Thompson
 

What cars did the SP use to ship the oil into San Luis Obispo for Loco fuel for steam engines?


      They mostly bought locomotive fuel oil from Standard of Calif., so you could expect UTLX tank cars to show up on occasion, but the company's own cars were the primary carriers. For my own layout, set a little south of SLO, I bring in fuel exclusively in SP tank cars.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Placards [Was: New Tangent Tank Cars]

Tony Thompson
 

Jon Miller wrote:

 
   OK so my new Tangent tank (GATX "Globe Soap Cincinnati") is filled with soap (maybe no soap).  As it comes from Tangent the placard has nothing on it.  As the car is "N.R." (I looked at the 12 pages) does that mean there should be no placard as as soap is harmless?

    Beautiful car by the way.


    As our British cousins say, Jon, you got it in one.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: NYC S98656

Tim O'Connor
 


I have a 1988 photo of PC 41536 in Williamsport PA, a never-rebuilt car,
no longer in revenue service but still on its trucks on rails.

Tim O'




Hi Schuyler,

These cars lasted into the 1950s in active revenue service, although not in this paint scheme which is the original scheme.  The NYC and affiliated roads had lots of them: the NYC itself had over 17,000 of them in January 1952, according to my ORER.  Westerfield makes kits for several varieties of this car (listed as the "steel USRA" car), and they come with all the decals you will need for all eras.  Some of these cars were used in MoW and company material storage at various yards in the 1950s-1970s.  I remember seeing several at Selkirk Yard near Albany in the 1970s.

Todd Sullivan

Re: Silicone for attaching . . . NOT

Tim O'Connor
 


I don't know what it is made of, but I've used it for 30 years and have
NEVER had a problem with it - "Dap Kwik Seal" - requires 24 hours to cure
hard. I always use plenty - definitely not for "exterior use" on models.

https://goo.gl/hr14MZ

Tim O'Connor



You likely got the idea from me.
I've used it, successfully, for years now. A generous bead of silicone on clean dry surfaces, and it adheres very well. It won't dry out over time like contact cements and it'll take some shock without the weight coming loose.
And there's no risk of chemical reactions

Pierre Oliver

Messaged received everyone, I will NOT buy or use Silicone. I wonder where I got the idea to use it? Maybe a dream. I was using something in a mostly Black tube with yellow and white print. I was clear. Called "Goop" I think, very effective as long as given 24 hours to cure.

Bill Welch

Re: Is this one of the UTLX type V or type X cars?

John
 

This is not a V-car.  The giveaway is the bands over each end of the tank.  On a V-car the tank was riveted to the two saddle/bolster/coupler pocket assemblies so bands weren't needed.  On an X-car the tank was riveted to an anchor at the center of the frame.  The bands help secure the tank at the ends while also allowing for relative movement between the frame and tank, in cases of differing thermal expansion.  On a frameless V-car this wasn't an issue.


John Bopp

Re: Soda Pop Bottling Plants

Eric Hansmann
 

The soda sweetener might be era dependent. Corn syrup after a certain point and cane sugar beforehand. 

Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Jul 2, 2017, at 11:24 AM, santafe@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Corn syrup tank cars,

Gary McMills- Baton Rouge La. 



----- Original Message -----
From:
STMFC@...

To:
<STMFC@...>
Cc:

Sent:
01 Jul 2017 20:45:40 +0000
Subject:
[STMFC] Soda Pop Bottling Plants


 

I came across this photo of the G. Ferlita & Sons Bottling Plant in Tampa, Florida:

 

http://digitalcollections.hcplc.org/digital/collection/p15391coll1/id/10323

 

It reminded me that during the era of this group, especially in the earlier years, the country was dotted with bottling plants and many were initially served by rail with their own spurs.

 

Here is another example:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12594501174/in/dateposted/?ytcheck=1

 

That got me to thinking about what was delivered to these plants by rail. I could think of several things:

 

Carbon dioxide gas

Cleaning and sterilization chemicals (for equipment and reused bottles)

Cork seals

New bottles

Packaging supplies

Soda concentrate

Water treatment chemicals

 

I assume no sugar was required as that already was in the concentrate for cola drinks, although sugar might be required for citrus-based drinks.

 

And I assume all of this would arrive by boxcar with maybe a reefer used for the concentrate.

 

Does anyone have insight into what actually was received by bottling plants and what kinds of freight cars were used?

 

This information would be useful for an operating session on a layout that had such a bottling plant with its own spur.

 

Thanks.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: Soda Pop Bottling Plants (Corn Syrup)

Schuyler Larrabee
 

The use of corn syrup in soda was a direct result of losing the access to Cuban sugar.



Schuyler



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2017 12:34 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Soda Pop Bottling Plants (Corn Syrup)





Probably not, for two reasons.



1. Although corn syrup was invented in 1812 in Russia, developmental work in the United States was carried out in the 1950s and 1960s, with shipments of the first commercial product to the food industry occurring in the late 1960s.



2. These early bottling plants received soda concentrate that already had the beet or cane sugar mixed in.



Today, of course, centralized, large soda production plants receive a lot of corn syrup and the small local bottling plants largely have disappeared.



Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Terminology

Jason Kliewer
 

Here are the track specs.  Notice they are for UP and BNSF.


The section of track is called a turnout.  The switch is the movable part of the turnout.  It's even labeled right in the drawings.

Why this is so hard to grasp, baffles the mind.

Jason Kliewer
Colorado Springs, CO

Re: Soda Pop Bottling Plants (Corn Syrup)

Gary McMills
 

I was speaking of today or post 1960.

Gary McMills 



----- Original Message -----
From:
STMFC@...

To:

Cc:

Sent:
02 Jul 2017 16:33:44 +0000
Subject:
Re: [STMFC] Soda Pop Bottling Plants (Corn Syrup)


 

Probably not, for two reasons.

 

1. Although corn syrup was invented in 1812 in Russia, developmental work in the United States was carried out in the 1950s and 1960s, with shipments of the first commercial product to the food industry occurring in the late 1960s.

 

2. These early bottling plants received soda concentrate that already had the beet or cane sugar mixed in.


Today, of course, centralized, large soda production plants receive a lot of corn syrup and the small local bottling plants largely have disappeared.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: Soda Pop Bottling Plants (Corn Syrup)

thecitrusbelt@...
 

Probably not, for two reasons.

 

1. Although corn syrup was invented in 1812 in Russia, developmental work in the United States was carried out in the 1950s and 1960s, with shipments of the first commercial product to the food industry occurring in the late 1960s.

 

2. These early bottling plants received soda concentrate that already had the beet or cane sugar mixed in.


Today, of course, centralized, large soda production plants receive a lot of corn syrup and the small local bottling plants largely have disappeared.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: Silicone for attaching . . . NOT

Gary McMills
 

Depends,

Do you need to hold together forever ? ,use J-B Weld.

I've use Elmer's ,it holds if  you don't plan to slam the car around.

Gary McMills -Baton Rouge,La. 



----- Original Message -----
From:
STMFC@...

To:

Cc:

Sent:
Sat, 1 Jul 2017 15:21:00 -0700
Subject:
Re: [STMFC] Re: Silicone for attaching . . . NOT


 

Pierre Oliver wrote:

 
I've used it, successfully, for years now. A generous bead of silicone on clean dry surfaces, and it adheres very well. It won't dry out over time like contact cements and it'll take some shock without the weight coming loose.

       Probably we can be divided into two groups: those who have experienced an adhesive failure with silicone, and those who haven't (or haven't yet). As for contact cement "drying out," I have some models built with Goo, applied in contact mode, over 40 years ago. Good luck separating those joints. I have tried, and needed heroic measures to get them apart.
        In short, to my surprise, I find myself in total disagreement with Mr. Oliver on this topic!

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press,! Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Arch bar trucks / was Re: Another Steamtown NHS Image - DL&W 38555

Charles Peck
 

Perhaps I have this wrong but I did not see the archbar ban as being an absolute.  My understanding
is that having archbars ruled out unlimited interchange.  Individual railroads could choose to accept
archbar equipped cars on a case by case basis.  For instance a shipper owned car that went from 
a mill on the L&N to a plant on the Southern could pass through interchange IF both railroads chose
to allow it.  The ban meant they were not obliged to accept those cars in interchange.
A number of railroad museums have persuaded railroads to move equipment that for some number of
reasons were not suitable for open interchange.  
That pickle car that made 6 trips a year from the farms on the GM&O to the pickle plant on the IC might
be voluntarily accepted by both roads who wanted to keep the business and did not own pickle cars
to use instead. 
So am I wrong on this?  Were the railroads not allowed to accept such archbar equipped cars?
Chuck Peck 

On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 8:57 AM, Ray Breyer rtbsvrr69@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

A few years ago, Richard Hendrickson sent me a wedge shot of ATSF 241461, a BX-15 class boxcar, in Pensacola Florida, in 1945. The car had archbar trucks.

I'm sure if we all scour the LoC and Barriger image collections, we can come up with a few more random images of free-roaming archbar trucks after the ban. It did happen, although the overall numbers of cars would probably be a rounding error more than a statistically important number.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL



From: "John Barry northbaylines@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: "STMFC@..." <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2017 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: Arch bar trucks / was Re: [STMFC] Another Steamtown NHS Image - DL&W 38555



Jim,

Yes,I agree that there may have been arch trucks in use during my era, including on the boat flats at Point Richmond.  I can and will use the great Tahoe trucks for that application, as well as some of the company flats at the Kaiser shipyard.  But I had my tongue firmly planted in my cheek to claim conformance with this detail that may have gone out of the practice with simplification of car lettering as it evolved through the 20s, hence the disclaimer for legally interchanged cars.  

John
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA


PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "jcdworkingonthenp@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2017 3:51 PM
Subject: Arch bar trucks / was Re: [STMFC] Another Steamtown NHS Image - DL&W 38555

 
    
John Barry wrote:  
I faithfully reproduce that detail on ALL of the arch bar trucks legally used in interchange on my December 1944 layout!  Oh, rats, they were outlawed before the war;
 
     John, I think most all of us could have / justify at least one or two arch bar trucked cars on our layouts, with-in researched reasoning.
     On my most researched railroad, the Northern Pacific, I have letters of some wood sided, steel underframed cabooses were retired in the mid 1960's with arch bar trucks intact. (well beyond this lists time frame) Some of these cabooses were of “normal” crew configuration, others were side door cabooses used in local LCL service to the railroad. Since none went off line, they were all legal.
   If you have a working interchange with another railroad, you might have the other railroad's caboose have arch bar trucks.
    Tank cars used in company service could also apply, if these were water cars for work trains and of course work train cars could have some arch bar trucks. One does not need a full string of work cars, one car parked next to the roundhouse could be enough. Cinder gons, etc.
    Limited application examples, yes - perhaps however with research as stated above, one or two cars would be enough to add flavor and still be entirely prototypical.   
                                                                                                   Jim Dick - Roseville, MN     








A Few More Tank Cars - Barriger Library

thecitrusbelt@...
 

Here are a few more tank cars:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12645046613/in/dateposted/

 

Can anyone HAZARD a guess as to what spilled from the dome of the one tank car?

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: Soda Pop Bottling Plants

Gary McMills
 

Corn syrup tank cars,

Gary McMills- Baton Rouge La. 



----- Original Message -----
From:
STMFC@...

To:

Cc:

Sent:
01 Jul 2017 20:45:40 +0000
Subject:
[STMFC] Soda Pop Bottling Plants


 

I came across this photo of the G. Ferlita & Sons Bottling Plant in Tampa, Florida:

 

http://digitalcollections.hcplc.org/digital/collection/p15391coll1/id/10323

 

It reminded me that during the era of this group, especially in the earlier years, the country was dotted with bottling plants and many were initially served by rail with their own spurs.

 

Here is another example:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12594501174/in/dateposted/?ytcheck=1

 

That got me to thinking about what was delivered to these plants by rail. I could think of several things:

 

Carbon dioxide gas

Cleaning and sterilization chemicals (for equipment and reused bottles)

Cork seals

New bottles

Packaging supplies

Soda concentrate

Water treatment chemicals

 

I assume no sugar was required as that already was in the concentrate for cola drinks, although sugar might be required for citrus-based drinks.

 

And I assume all of this would arrive by boxcar with maybe a reefer used for the concentrate.

 

Does anyone have insight into what actually was received by bottling plants and what kinds of freight cars were used?

 

This information would be useful for an operating session on a layout that had such a bottling plant with its own spur.

 

Thanks.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: Placards [Was: New Tangent Tank Cars]

Jon Miller
 

On 7/1/2017 7:03 PM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] wrote:
12-page table from General American's Tank Car Handbook,

    OK so my new Tangent tank (GATX "Globe Soap Cincinnati") is filled with soap (maybe no soap).  As it comes from Tangent the placard has nothing on it.  As the car is "N.R." (I looked at the 12 pages) does that mean there should be no placard as as soap is harmless?

    Beautiful car by the way.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, 
SPROG, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Re: Terminology

David Payne
 

 
 
In a message dated 7/2/2017 12:20:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:
For example, is a 4-8-4 steam locomotive a "Northern";? Or is it an "FEF" or perhaps simply a "2900" or perhaps a "GS-4"?
 
Or "K Class" ... or "Big Apple" ...
 
DPayne
 

More Boxcars From The Barriger Library

thecitrusbelt@...
 

Here are three more links with better than "average Barriger quality" photos of boxcars:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12645403714/in/dateposted/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12644924805/in/photostream/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12682503304/in/dateposted/

 

I know less than many folks on this list about freight cars, so gentlemen, I await your comments. I always benefit from the knowledge you share.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA