Date   

Re: Poultry Car Tarps

rwitt_2000
 

The tarps are an interesting find. Don't birds go to sleep when the sun sets or when they are covered to keep the light out.

Bob Witt


Poultry Car Tarps

Bob Chaparro
 

In the background to the left in this photo is a poultry car with a tarp pulled up over the car roof:

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-09-14-18/X5144.jpg

I assume the tarp was used to protect the birds from bad weather.

My questions are:

Who would have been responsible for deploying the tarp, the shipper's rider (if there was one) or the railroad?

Was their a tariff for using the tarp?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Chicago RPM operating session

skibbs4
 

October 21 :-)

A good time to remind everyone that RPM Chicagoland will be October 18-20, less than a month away!  See you there. 

Mike Skibbe

On Sep 25, 2018, at 11:48 AM, Ted Schnepf <railsunl@...> wrote:

Hello List,

Brian is correct.  Oct.20.

Ted



From: BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2018 6:15 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Chicago RPM operating session

You mean October 20?


Thanks!
--
Brian Ehni

On 9/24/18, 6:03 PM, "Ted Schnepf" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io on behalf of railsunl@...> wrote:

    Hello,

    As in past years, I will host a Sunday morning operating session
    following the Chicago RPM meet.  The Op session is Sunday, Sept 20,
    from 9 AM to 1 PM.  No experience is necessary.  Sign ups off line.

    Looking forward to seeing many of you in a little over three weeks.

    Ted

    Rails Unlimited
    Ted Schnepf
    railsunl@...
    847-697-5353
    126 Will Scarlet
    Elgin, Ill. 60120
    http://RailsUnlimited.ribbonrail.com/

    Model Railroad Sales and Service with
    a personal touch.
    Books new and used.  HO and O scales.
    DCC supplies. O scale urethane cars.
    Photos and darkroom services.
    Checks, cash (0%) or credit (secure server at web site 5% added).


Re: Chicago RPM operating session

 

Can’t make it this year, but I retire Dec 21, so I’ll be hitting a lot of RPMs next year.

 

 

Thanks!
--
Brian Ehni

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Ted Schnepf <railsunl@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Tuesday, September 25, 2018 at 11:48 AM
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Chicago RPM operating session

 

Hello List,

 

Brian is correct.  Oct.20.

 

Ted

 


From: BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2018 6:15 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Chicago RPM operating session

 

You mean October 20?


Thanks!
--
Brian Ehni

On 9/24/18, 6:03 PM, "Ted Schnepf" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io on behalf of railsunl@...> wrote:

    Hello,

    As in past years, I will host a Sunday morning operating session
    following the Chicago RPM meet.  The Op session is Sunday, Sept 20,
    from 9 AM to 1 PM.  No experience is necessary.  Sign ups off line.

    Looking forward to seeing many of you in a little over three weeks.

    Ted

    Rails Unlimited
    Ted Schnepf
    railsunl@...
    847-697-5353
    126 Will Scarlet
    Elgin, Ill. 60120
    http://RailsUnlimited.ribbonrail.com/

    Model Railroad Sales and Service with
    a personal touch.
    Books new and used.  HO and O scales.
    DCC supplies. O scale urethane cars.
    Photos and darkroom services.
    Checks, cash (0%) or credit (secure server at web site 5% added).


Re: Chicago RPM operating session

Ted Schnepf
 

Hello List,

Brian is correct.  Oct.20.

Ted



From: BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2018 6:15 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Chicago RPM operating session

You mean October 20?


Thanks!
--
Brian Ehni

On 9/24/18, 6:03 PM, "Ted Schnepf" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io on behalf of railsunl@...> wrote:

    Hello,

    As in past years, I will host a Sunday morning operating session
    following the Chicago RPM meet.  The Op session is Sunday, Sept 20,
    from 9 AM to 1 PM.  No experience is necessary.  Sign ups off line.

    Looking forward to seeing many of you in a little over three weeks.

    Ted

    Rails Unlimited
    Ted Schnepf
    railsunl@...
    847-697-5353
    126 Will Scarlet
    Elgin, Ill. 60120
    http://RailsUnlimited.ribbonrail.com/

    Model Railroad Sales and Service with
    a personal touch.
    Books new and used.  HO and O scales.
    DCC supplies. O scale urethane cars.
    Photos and darkroom services.
    Checks, cash (0%) or credit (secure server at web site 5% added).


Re: SP A-50-16 automobile cars

Tony Thompson
 

Bruce Smith wrote:

As built in the X31 series, the X31 was an automobile car equipped with loaders, while X31A cars were general merchandise. a subset of X31A were double door cars, identical in all respects to X31 class cars, except the loaders. Similarly, the class X31B and X31C were identical in all respects except that the X31C had loaders . . .

      Ah, well, SUB-classes . . . I used to give a clinic called "Pennsy Modeling Without Brain Damage," and I concocted some fun in that talk about PRR sub-classes. I may have to dust that one off and bring it back to a new generation of modelers who are encountering PRR freight cars . . .

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Turnout design / was "wheels"

Todd Sullivan
 

Schuyler privately asked a question about the turnout throw bars in the photos I posted a couple of days ago.  I thought the answer would interest others, so I'm posting it here.
 
All the turnouts in the photos are from Proto87 Stores 'Fast and Easy' kits.  The kits use CVT switch blocks for the ties and Proto87 Stores' own design for the throw bars and planed points which work together.  The kits also come with 'code 88 safe' frogs, although I like Details West frogs for their more visible details.  Proto87 Stores has all of the parts available on their website - http://www.proto87.com/ .  I did a presentation on building the turnout kits based on PRR track at RPM East in 2010.  I still have the PowerPoint, but it's huge due to the large number of photos.
 
For my newest layout, I'm using ME No. 6 prefab turnouts in many spots because I want to get to operating the layout sooner (I'm 77 and have not sure how many years left), and I use the P87 turnouts for any other size.  I really prefer the P87 turnouts for their appearance, but I have to make and install a mechanism for manual throw turnouts to throw the points and power the frog OR install a switch motor and controls for the power turnouts.  I designed my own cheap solution for the manual throws, but either approach adds a couple of hours to each turnout build.
 
Todd Sullivan.


Southern Steel Frame Hopper Data

George Eichelberger
 

This is a cross-post from the new SouthernRailway@groups.io. As it is a steam era topic, I'll repeat it here.... (It would be interesting to see
similar examples from any railroad.)

Here are links to two files that provide an example of a Southern Railway freight car Specification (F-17), an F-Card drawing list (F-5) 
and the General Arrangement drawing (SF-1011) of the steel frame hopper cars in the Spec. and Card List.

No explanation has ever been found that explains WHY the Southern decided specifications and drawing lists should use the same "F-"
labels on two different documents. Confusing the F- numbers on Specs and Drawing Lists is easy to do. The two IDs might be the same F numbers
but that is not the case after the first few Specs were published. Some specifications include Truck (FT-) Specifications. FT numbers may be the same as the car spec but because trucks specs were used multiple times, the F- and FT- labels are probably different.

Specifications would be the first document produced when the Southern decided to purchase rolling stock. They could be written by the Southern or 
submitted to the railroad by a carbuilder. Not every Spec resulted in an order for cars. Some were issued to solicit ideas from carbuilders for a similar car, other were simply to learn what carbuilders could offer. The railroad could provide drawings with the Specs to provide more details on the cars they wanted to buy. If they decided to purchase cars from a particular carbuilder, the builder could either submit their own design drawings, negotiate to build the Southern's drawing or create a new drawing that would be acceptable to the railroad that they could provide.

The Southern did not accept many variations from their specification. In some cases, that eliminated the carbuilder from negotiations. One particular problem was the railroad defined many of the wood components in early cars as standard "parts" they kept in stock for car repairs. If a carbuilder did not want, or could not, provide 8"x10" white oak side sills (the Southern's standard for that "part"), for example their design could be rejected.

Because car designs could vary between the original spec and what was delivered, details in the specifications may not be accurate for what was built and delivered.
As a result, there are drawings in the SRHA archives that were never used.

The third link is the draft of an index with car numbers, Spec. and F-Cards. It is not complete for various reasons; Southern subsidiaries may have used the same specification or F-Cards and the Southern may have re-ordered additional groups of cars without showing the new car series on the spec or Card List.

The SRHA archives contain Card Lists F-1 to F-213, New Car Programs (NCP) NCP-2 to NCP-59 and Specifications F-1 to F-200 and (early) F-A to F-H.
Comparing data in the various documents, correspondence and drawings for every car series is a major project that certainly needs to be done!

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/13rJH7PkpmyBWGESxX2Vj6kMz6Rb3-79_?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OOmoBKYxJda7yp7h6CEbfxgPzCjNBmyu/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/14PrYaKCNPcMPGOZC0HHZliiivyaLQmnE/view?usp=sharing



Re: Chicago RPM operating session

 

You mean October 20?


Thanks!
--
Brian Ehni

On 9/24/18, 6:03 PM, "Ted Schnepf" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io on behalf of railsunl@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Hello,

As in past years, I will host a Sunday morning operating session
following the Chicago RPM meet. The Op session is Sunday, Sept 20,
from 9 AM to 1 PM. No experience is necessary. Sign ups off line.

Looking forward to seeing many of you in a little over three weeks.

Ted

Rails Unlimited
Ted Schnepf
railsunl@sbcglobal.net
847-697-5353
126 Will Scarlet
Elgin, Ill. 60120
http://RailsUnlimited.ribbonrail.com/

Model Railroad Sales and Service with
a personal touch.
Books new and used. HO and O scales.
DCC supplies. O scale urethane cars.
Photos and darkroom services.
Checks, cash (0%) or credit (secure server at web site 5% added).


Re: A tantalizer for Chicagoland RPM

Bill Welch
 

Bob, did you click on the image on Pierre's link?

Bill Welch


Re: SP A-50-16 automobile cars

Rupert Gamlen
 

But not always, exactly! The CB&Q had 28 barrel cars in service when the two letter AAR code system was agreed upon in 1910. There was no letter group for barrel box cars so the Burlington designated them as "XB". In 1923, the Burlington changed the designation of the 20 remaining cars to XF - furniture cars - while continuing to list them as "barrel cars" in the ORER's.

I've never seen a photo of one of these but, in the diagram books, they appear to be identical to standard box cars (the first three were converted from horse cars) as opposed to flat cars with a superstructure, for which the FB code would apply. And just to confuse things, they were numbered at the flat car number group instead of being in the box car number groups.

Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of David via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, 25 September 2018 2:50 p.m.
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] SP A-50-16 automobile cars

"Those are AAR classes, not railroad car classes"

They are railroad car classes, though obviously derived from the AAR type designations. Burlington and NC&StL, for two other examples, used the same alphanumeric classification scheme.

David Thompson


SP A-50-16 automobile cars

David
 

"Those are AAR classes, not railroad car classes"

They are railroad car classes, though obviously derived from the AAR type designations. Burlington and NC&StL, for two other examples, used the same alphanumeric classification scheme.

David Thompson


Chicago RPM operating session

Ted Schnepf
 

Hello,

As in past years, I will host a Sunday morning operating session following the Chicago RPM meet. The Op session is Sunday, Sept 20, from 9 AM to 1 PM. No experience is necessary. Sign ups off line.

Looking forward to seeing many of you in a little over three weeks.

Ted

Rails Unlimited
Ted Schnepf
railsunl@sbcglobal.net
847-697-5353
126 Will Scarlet
Elgin, Ill. 60120
http://RailsUnlimited.ribbonrail.com/

Model Railroad Sales and Service with
a personal touch.
Books new and used. HO and O scales.
DCC supplies. O scale urethane cars.
Photos and darkroom services.
Checks, cash (0%) or credit (secure server at web site 5% added).


Re: A tantalizer for Chicagoland RPM

rwitt_2000
 

Pierre,

Have I missed this detail from previous models, but I am not seeing simulated bulges in the side sheathing common to welded construction? Nice.

Bob Witt


Re: SP A-50-16 automobile cars

Bruce Smith
 
Edited

Tony,

 

Well... the PRR did and didn't.  For example:

 

As built in the X31 series, the X31 was an automobile car equipped with loaders, while X31A cars were general merchandise. a subset of X31A were double door cars, identical in all respects to X31 class cars, except the loaders. Similarly, the class X31B and X31C were identical in all respects except that the X31C had loaders.

 

When 100 X31 class automobile cars (double door, automobile loaders) were had their automobile loaders removed, they were reclassified as X31A.

 

OTOH, when X31C class automobile cars (double door, automobile loaders) were had their automobile loaders removed, they remained as class X31C (even though class X31B were identical cars without loaders)

 

Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 

 


Did other railroads change CLASS when special equipment was installed?

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
 


Re: wheels

Jim Betz
 

  Proto is as proto does

  Most people - when they talk about "Proto" actually use "semi-scale" ...

  ... if you run your equipment on a 'less than perfect' layout (track) -or- the
track is 'commercial track' (any brand) -or- you aren't in control of all of the
equipment being used (standards) ... you -will- have operational difficulties
running "proto" anything (couplers, wheels, etc.).
  Yes - the old wheels and couplers we all know don't -look- as good as 
the proto stuff ... but they do operate better (less likely to derail, have
coupling problems, etc.). 

  If you are in total control of all of the equipment and the layout then you
can get them to operate well - or at least well enough to be willing to live
with them.
  If you are building for contests/display models only ... then you can do
what ever you want.
  Am I lobbying for pizza cutter wheels and code 100 track?  Of course
not.  I'm just saying that they operate more reliably.  Is 'semi-scale'
better looking than the older/larger?  Yes.

  My personal experience is that the proto stuff only operates with the
proto stuff (doesn't 'interchange' well with non-proto) ... and even then
it doesn't operate as well (i.e. with as few problems) as the non-proto.

  It's a Choice ... or maybe an obsession/religion?  ;-)
                                                                                                     - Jim

P.S. Oh yes, I forgot to mention that scale couplers are harder to see
       and therefor more difficult to uncouple.  Add in a bit of tremor and
       you see the 'need' for Proto differently.


HO Semi-scale wheels and NMRA switch dimensions

Andy Carlson
 

Years ago, Jack Parker, whose magnificent HO NP railroad he built with his own track system (go to Central Valley Model works web site) ran semi-scale wheel sets, often called code 88, without derailments. The only derailments I have ever seen on his layout were from vistors' guest equipment having faulty wheel gauge. Jack told me that he simply used the flange way dimensions from the NMRA to the tight end of the the gauge's tolerences. It was fun to watch 50 car trains backing through facing point yard leads with S curves and transitions of code 81 to code 40 rails without any derailments, even with a mix of code 110 and 88 wheels. It was around that time that I noticed that code 110 wheels shared very similar, if not exactly the same, flange widths with the semi-scale wheels. On my own jig built Fast Track code 40 switches, I use a 0.020" PC tie for the point spacer during construction, wrapped with about 0.004" paper to prevent soldering the point to the tie. This leaves about a 0.024" gap. Closer still would work well.

If one is to read some of the many railroad switch articles by Joe Fugate they will find that commercial switches are almost always off in NMRA dimensions and should be tweeked to assure much better operations.

As Todd mentioned, having the rail points  closer to the stock rails offers better trackage, plus looks much better.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA



From: Todd Sullivan via Groups.Io <sullivant41@...>
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2018 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] wheels

I've tried all the wheel types mentioned - 0.110", 0.088", PROTO:HO and Proto:87, and built limited amounts of track and turnouts on which to run the Proto styles.  Actually, correctly gauged track (straight and curved) supports all 4 types of wheels.  Turnouts, crossings, etc. are a different story due to the back-to-back dimensions of the Proto wheel sets and the necessary narrower flangeway and point dimensions to accommodate them. 

The best compromise that I settled on uses the 0.088" wheel sets and points that are set slightly wider than NMRA standards (resulting in a smaller gap between the point and stock rail).  Everything else about the turnouts are very carefully gauged to the NMRA gauges.  Photos attached - first photo is my point positioning and the second photo is P87 Stores' stock positioning.

Todd Sullivan.



Re: SP A-50-16 automobile cars

Tony Thompson
 

David Thompson wrote:

"Did other railroads change CLASS when special equipment was installed?"

Not quite the same thing, but Norfolk Southern reclassed their 40-ft double-door boxes from XAR1 to XM4 when the auto loaders were removed.
Those are AAR classes, not railroad car classes, and I would assume it was REQUIRED for the AAR class listed in the Register to be accurate. Car clerks relied on the register for this information. I would be surprised if any railroad did NOT change the AAR class to reflect equipment added or subtracted.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: wheels

Dennis Storzek
 

I recall that when Raul Martin of NWSL started producing RP25 Code 64 wheels for the P:87 crowd he also mounted some to the NMRA standard (not the P:87 standard) back to back in case someone was foolish enough to want to run them on NMRA standard track. They looked nice but ran poorly, dropping in frogs and derailing. Since these wheelsets were not to P:87 spec he needed another name and called them PROTO:HO. I liked that name and adopted it, with his permission, for our scale size Accumates, since couplers don't really have any dependence on track standards. At any rate the wheels are the same, the only difference was the spacing on the axle.

Saying that Code 64 wheels have RP25 flanges doesn't mean they are the same size as Code 220 wheel flanges, since RP25 has only ONE profile; the number designates the tire width, and all other dimensions are proportional.

Dennis Storzek


Re: wheels

Todd Sullivan
 

I've tried all the wheel types mentioned - 0.110", 0.088", PROTO:HO and Proto:87, and built limited amounts of track and turnouts on which to run the Proto styles.  Actually, correctly gauged track (straight and curved) supports all 4 types of wheels.  Turnouts, crossings, etc. are a different story due to the back-to-back dimensions of the Proto wheel sets and the necessary narrower flangeway and point dimensions to accommodate them. 

The best compromise that I settled on uses the 0.088" wheel sets and points that are set slightly wider than NMRA standards (resulting in a smaller gap between the point and stock rail).  Everything else about the turnouts are very carefully gauged to the NMRA gauges.  Photos attached - first photo is my point positioning and the second photo is P87 Stores' stock positioning.

Todd Sullivan.

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