Date   

Re: NYRB Ventilated cars mysteries

Peter Ness
 

Thanks for the additional information, Hugh.

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Hugh Guillaume via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2018 10:48 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] NYRB Ventilated cars mysteries

 

Seth probably has the same data I have in my NYC freight car directories.  The ERDX and the NYRX/NYRB cars were converted from box cars in Lot 734-B(NYC 159000-159999) in 1958 by Despatch Shops, Inc., on DSI Lot 936.  Cars had 5/5 ends, 8' sliding plug doors and 3323 cu.ft.  They were all designated "RB".  The oldest cars in the Spec. 936 series were IHB 10600-10999(NYC Lot 730-B).  The other cars, all NYC: 735-B 161000-161999; 743-B 162000-163999; 759-B 164000-164999; 763-B 165000-165999; 764-B 166000-166999.  Beginning with Lot 743-B 4//4 early improved Dreadnaught ends were applied.  Cars had 10-panel sides, Gypsum running boards, Murphy panel roofs, sides and ends painted red, roof painted black.


Re: NYRB Ventilated cars mysteries

Peter Ness
 

Tim,

Thanks for the photo. Came across this on photobucket
http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/dti406/media/bWVkaWFJZDo3ODIyMzk2Nw==/?r
ef= and described on the Atlas Forum as a Branchline 40' Kit with 8' Door,
substituted an 8' Front Range Door from the scrap box. Painted with
Scalecoat II Reefer Yellow and Boxcar Red, and lettered with Greg Komar
Decals

Read more:
http://atlasrescueforum.proboards.com/thread/1644/sunday-photo-september-201
3-fall#ixzz5RKNdDuLY (scroll down)

Peter Ness

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf
Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2018 8:44 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] NYRB Ventilated cars mysteries


I forgot to include this photo of a 734-B. It has been repainted, and with
door gussets, but otherwise as built.

Tim

--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


NSS gondolas.

Brian Carlson
 

A few years ago, I Purchased one of Richard Hendrickson’s Newburgh & South Shore 40 ft gondolas. I plan to leave the car mostly as is to honor my friend. The Kadee #5s have been replaced by scale couplers, and since I don’t use magnetic uncoupling I cut the pin off. I’d like to add a hi-tech details air hose to finish the car off, which I don’t think existed when Richard built the car.

In order to know how to mount the hose I’m in need of a photograph of an NSS gon in the 1200 series. The car number on the model is 1245. Any help is appreciated.




Brian J. Carlson


Re: NYRB Ventilated cars mysteries

Peter Ness
 

Tim,

 

Fat fingering is contagious!  Correct, that would be NYC 159000 L

 

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2018 8:36 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] NYRB Ventilated cars mysteries

 


??

Peter, I don't know what that web site says, but NYC 179000 was an 832-B not a 734-B.

Did you mean to type 159000? That was the original series for lot 734-B.

The "snippet" you included shows that NYRX is the more recent change to the ORER. I'm
guessing those NYRB reporting marks didn't last long - I have never seen a photo of a
car with NYRB reporting marks, while I have a dozen photos of NYRX cars.

In any case the NYRX rebuilds of 734-B cars retained the RP flush roofs and 5/5 ends,
while receiving wider 8 foot door openings (actual plug door width wider, maybe 8'3")
and a reinforced side sill. These rebuilds lasted into the 1970's.

Tim O'Connor

============================


Thanks very much for the information. My source on info for the NYRX and EDRX rebuilds from Lot 734B is the database on the Canadian Southern website.
 
Looking at the photo of NYC 179000 on the website in comparison with NYRX 2528, I guess I’m thinking that since the side sills are different and the 8’W sliding plug door was slapped on the side, I guess I can think the ends, and perhaps running boards were changes, too, maybe?  After all, if these were insulated cars, they had to take something apart to make the construction insulated?
 
Nothing like a good mystery!
 
Attached is a snippet from the January 1959 ORER showing both NYRB and NYRX cars and the drawing from the Canadian Southern website for both ERDX 110000-series and NYRX2500-series.
 
Peter Ness


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Actual Burlington SM-18 cars

Nelson Moyer
 

Ted,

 

Are you sure you’re not thinking about the SM-19, SM-19A, SM-19B, SM-19C, etc.? those were longer, higher, and had many variations, but SM-16 and SM-18/118A, not so much. They didn’t get steel ends like the SM-19B, etc. Roofs remained wood to the end.

 

Nelson Moyer

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ted Schnepf
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2018 9:30 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Actual Burlington SM-18 cars

 

Hi Nelson and list,



The two Q stock cars listed below have different wheel bases.  Look at diagrams in the Q bulletin.  Also ends have many variations in both classes.

 

Between the two classes, about a dozen models with different details can be built.

 

Ted

 


From: Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...>
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2018 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Actual Burlington SM-18 cars

 

The main difference between the SM-16 and SM-18/18A was that the former series had lumber doors on the A end and the latter cars did not. Otherwise, they were essentially identical. At least two color photos of SM-18 cars exist (CB&Q 58587D and CB&Q 58118), but I don’t remember the source I scanned them from. There are two color photos of a long string of SM-16 and SM-18 stock cars in one of the color books. The photos were high level shots taken in Minneapolis, but again, I don’t remember which book. The notable feature of those two photos is the way the board roofs weathered. I have scans of these photos, but I don’t have permission to post them. As Steve says, Burlington Bulletin No. 25 is THE reference on CB&Q stock cars. There have been many photo of SM-18 models built by several people, and the Sunshine kit is a very good representation of these cars. If you’ve seen the model, you’ve seen the car.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of James SANDIFER
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 7:43 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Actual Burlington SM-18 cars

 

The Burlington Bulletin No. 25, was dedicated to Stock Cars and Livestock Traffic of the Burlington. Pages 69-73  contain photos, Folio info and a scale drawing. “The SM-18 and 18A cars were company built copies of the SM-16s. All 500 SM-18s (56950-57449) were constructed in Aurora in 1926 while the 1,000 SM-18As (55950-56949) were turned out at Galesburg in 1926-27 (750 cars) and 1928 (250 cars). “

 

 

 


Re: NYRB Ventilated cars mysteries

 

Seth probably has the same data I have in my NYC freight car directories.  The ERDX and the NYRX/NYRB cars were converted from box cars in Lot 734-B(NYC 159000-159999) in 1958 by Despatch Shops, Inc., on DSI Lot 936.  Cars had 5/5 ends, 8' sliding plug doors and 3323 cu.ft.  They were all designated "RB".  The oldest cars in the Spec. 936 series were IHB 10600-10999(NYC Lot 730-B).  The other cars, all NYC: 735-B 161000-161999; 743-B 162000-163999; 759-B 164000-164999; 763-B 165000-165999; 764-B 166000-166999.  Beginning with Lot 743-B 4//4 early improved Dreadnaught ends were applied.  Cars had 10-panel sides, Gypsum running boards, Murphy panel roofs, sides and ends painted red, roof painted black.


Re: ARA Diagrams

Richard Brennan
 

In the ongoing 'Which is better for creating decal artwork?' battle ...
between Adobe Illustrator (AI), Corel Draw (CDR), and Inkscape;
There -is- one CLEAR winner:

...the one that YOU take the time to learn to suit your needs.

--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
--------------------
p.s. My vote also for the most often poorly rendered character in commercial railroad artwork: the ampersand "&"

At 07:22 PM 9/16/2018, John Hagen via Groups.Io wrote:
I use Illustrator for my artwork.
I also have CorelDRAW but prefer to do the any actual artwork in ai.
This is almost certainly due my having learned vector artwork in ai. No sense now to re-learn on a different, albeit equally as capable, program.
When I work with other printers, or produce artwork for others, some prefer cdr. Having both gives me a lot of flexibility.
I use High-Logic FontCreator for complete font sets. If it is not something I will be using often, I too prefer to tweak existing fonts.
John Hagen

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Charlie Vlk
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2018 6:18 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ARA Diagrams

Ralph-
I use CorelDraw for my artwork. Most of the output is converted to Illustrator as the factories in China seem to prefer it. Corel does a seamless job of inputting and exporting AI and pdf files and I much prefer the look and feel of the Corel product over AI. I have used Fontastic to make actual typeable font sets but usually don't have to develop an entire set of alpha characters. Many times a close font can be tortured to match photographs...the ampersand is often unique and is the worst to fix/make.
Charlie Vlk


Re: Zinc Pest was Re: Times have changed!

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

The problem’s the same (to us and our purposes) whether it’s “chemical” or “atomic” (diffusion,etc.) … and impurities cause it, perhaps by various mechanisms. It can all be considered "corrosion”. There’s also no known cure once it starts.

Such problems are not unique to pot metal. I have some old plastic kits and parts from the 40’s and 50’s that exhibit various problems … distortion, de-polymerization, etc. Some turn white, some crumble, and some get all gooey.

Wood dries out, gets brittle, or rots … unless mold or termites get to it first.

Nothing lasts forever.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Sep 16, 2018, at 10:20 PM, Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@tir.com> wrote:

Craig:

That’s completely consistent with what I’ve understood about this problem. It’s due to impurities in the metal mix. Since nothing is likely to ever be 100%, such impurities will always be present to varying degrees. Thus most all “pot metal” (Zamac) will eventually succumb to this degradation. However it may take many years. My experience has been that most early (by model railroading standards) parts exhibit some degree of the problem. There are exceptions, at least for now.

Alloys from the WWII period seem especially “infected”, perhaps because many materials of good quality were hard to find during the war. Still, one finds occasional items that seem remarkably free of such deterioration … as was the case with the OP’s photo.

It may also be true that storage conditions retard or accellerate the process. Generally the higher the temperature the faster most reactions occur.

Anyway, once it appears, it’s "terminal”. The best you can do is get a mold of the part before it’s badly distorted … or perhaps a good hi-res. 3D scan.

Dan Mitchell
==========
On Sep 16, 2018, at 5:46 PM, Craig Zeni <clzeni@gmail.com> wrote:


On Sep 16, 2018, at 5:15 PM, main@RealSTMFC.groups.io wrote:

6b. Re: Times have changed!
From: Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@tir.com>
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2018 17:15:19 EDT

The one you show are in exceptional condition. From my experience, perhaps 75% of of such old castings have turned to dust due to “Metal Rot” (intercrystaline corrosion). It’s due to impurities in the diecast metal, and varied from “pot to pot” in the casting process, even from the same manufacturer.

Such rot is like a bad cancer, there’s really no cure. The corrosion occurs between the metal crystals, forcing them apart. The part will first swell, distort, warp, and become covered in white powder … eventually the powder is all that’s left. If the part is not yet in awful shape you can try to get a mold off it, and thus “save” in for future reproduction.

Dan Mitchell
==========
Dan,

Back in my college days when I was studying metallurgy, one of my professors who happened to be a tinplate train collector and restorer told me his theory was that poison Zamac aka zinc pest isn't an electrolytic problem or a corrosion problem or a temperature problem. It's an atomic problem, a metallurgical problem with impurities - typically lead, antimony and bismuth. Zamac, like almost all metal, has a 'grain' structure. When liquid metal solidifies, the metal doesn't start freezing uniformly - it begins at nucleation points in many places more or less at the same time. A cubic atomic structure of atoms grows out of each of those nucleation points forming a grain. As the grains continue to grow they bump into each other, forming grain boundaries. When the contaminated Zamac alloy is poured and solidifies, the contaminant atoms are trapped inside the grains...but the contaminants don't like being inside the grains. Through a process known as diffusion the impurity atoms move thru the grain structure heading for the boundaries. As the impurities gather at the boundaries they push the grains apart...which is what you see with the 'poisoned Zamac' that we see in old models that are swelling and crumbling. The long time it takes for the failure to happen is consistent with diffusion theory as well. Is my professor right? Beats me...

Trying to save those parts with zinc pest will effectively be rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic...how long it takes your particular ship to sink is the great unknown but it will eventually sink.

Craig Zeni
Cary NC








Re: Actual Burlington SM-18 cars

Ted Schnepf
 

Hi Nelson and list,

The two Q stock cars listed below have different wheel bases.  Look at diagrams in the Q bulletin.  Also ends have many variations in both classes.

Between the two classes, about a dozen models with different details can be built.

Ted



From: Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...>
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2018 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Actual Burlington SM-18 cars

The main difference between the SM-16 and SM-18/18A was that the former series had lumber doors on the A end and the latter cars did not. Otherwise, they were essentially identical. At least two color photos of SM-18 cars exist (CB&Q 58587D and CB&Q 58118), but I don’t remember the source I scanned them from. There are two color photos of a long string of SM-16 and SM-18 stock cars in one of the color books. The photos were high level shots taken in Minneapolis, but again, I don’t remember which book. The notable feature of those two photos is the way the board roofs weathered. I have scans of these photos, but I don’t have permission to post them. As Steve says, Burlington Bulletin No. 25 is THE reference on CB&Q stock cars. There have been many photo of SM-18 models built by several people, and the Sunshine kit is a very good representation of these cars. If you’ve seen the model, you’ve seen the car.
 
Nelson Moyer
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of James SANDIFER
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 7:43 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Actual Burlington SM-18 cars
 
The Burlington Bulletin No. 25, was dedicated to Stock Cars and Livestock Traffic of the Burlington. Pages 69-73  contain photos, Folio info and a scale drawing. “The SM-18 and 18A cars were company built copies of the SM-16s. All 500 SM-18s (56950-57449) were constructed in Aurora in 1926 while the 1,000 SM-18As (55950-56949) were turned out at Galesburg in 1926-27 (750 cars) and 1928 (250 cars). “
 



Re: ARA Diagrams

John Hagen <sprinthag@...>
 

I use Illustrator for my artwork.
I also have CorelDRAW but prefer to do the any actual artwork in ai.
This is almost certainly due my having learned vector artwork in ai. No sense now to re-learn on a different, albeit equally as capable, program.
When I work with other printers, or produce artwork for others, some prefer cdr. Having both gives me a lot of flexibility.
I use High-Logic FontCreator for complete font sets. If it is not something I will be using often, I too prefer to tweak existing fonts.
John Hagen

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Charlie Vlk
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2018 6:18 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ARA Diagrams

Ralph-
I use CorelDraw for my artwork. Most of the output is converted to Illustrator as the factories in China seem to prefer it. Corel does a seamless job of inputting and exporting AI and pdf files and I much prefer the look and feel of the Corel product over AI. I have used Fontastic to make actual typeable font sets but usually don't have to develop an entire set of alpha characters. Many times a close font can be tortured to match photographs...the ampersand is often unique and is the worst to fix/make.
Charlie Vlk
Railroad Model Resources


Re: Zinc Pest was Re: Times have changed!

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Craig:

That’s completely consistent with what I’ve understood about this problem. It’s due to impurities in the metal mix. Since nothing is likely to ever be 100%, such impurities will always be present to varying degrees. Thus most all “pot metal” (Zamac) will eventually succumb to this degradation. However it may take many years. My experience has been that most early (by model railroading standards) parts exhibit some degree of the problem. There are exceptions, at least for now.

Alloys from the WWII period seem especially “infected”, perhaps because many materials of good quality were hard to find during the war. Still, one finds occasional items that seem remarkably free of such deterioration … as was the case with the OP’s photo.

It may also be true that storage conditions retard or accellerate the process. Generally the higher the temperature the faster most reactions occur.

Anyway, once it appears, it’s "terminal”. The best you can do is get a mold of the part before it’s badly distorted … or perhaps a good hi-res. 3D scan.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Sep 16, 2018, at 5:46 PM, Craig Zeni <clzeni@gmail.com> wrote:


On Sep 16, 2018, at 5:15 PM, main@RealSTMFC.groups.io wrote:

6b. Re: Times have changed!
From: Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@tir.com>
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2018 17:15:19 EDT

The one you show are in exceptional condition. From my experience, perhaps 75% of of such old castings have turned to dust due to “Metal Rot” (intercrystaline corrosion). It’s due to impurities in the diecast metal, and varied from “pot to pot” in the casting process, even from the same manufacturer.

Such rot is like a bad cancer, there’s really no cure. The corrosion occurs between the metal crystals, forcing them apart. The part will first swell, distort, warp, and become covered in white powder … eventually the powder is all that’s left. If the part is not yet in awful shape you can try to get a mold off it, and thus “save” in for future reproduction.

Dan Mitchell
==========
Dan,

Back in my college days when I was studying metallurgy, one of my professors who happened to be a tinplate train collector and restorer told me his theory was that poison Zamac aka zinc pest isn't an electrolytic problem or a corrosion problem or a temperature problem. It's an atomic problem, a metallurgical problem with impurities - typically lead, antimony and bismuth. Zamac, like almost all metal, has a 'grain' structure. When liquid metal solidifies, the metal doesn't start freezing uniformly - it begins at nucleation points in many places more or less at the same time. A cubic atomic structure of atoms grows out of each of those nucleation points forming a grain. As the grains continue to grow they bump into each other, forming grain boundaries. When the contaminated Zamac alloy is poured and solidifies, the contaminant atoms are trapped inside the grains...but the contaminants don't like being inside the grains. Through a process known as diffusion the impurity atoms move thru the grain structure heading for the boundaries. As the impurities gather at the boundaries they push the grains apart...which is what you see with the 'poisoned Zamac' that we see in old models that are swelling and crumbling. The long time it takes for the failure to happen is consistent with diffusion theory as well. Is my professor right? Beats me...

Trying to save those parts with zinc pest will effectively be rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic...how long it takes your particular ship to sink is the great unknown but it will eventually sink.

Craig Zeni
Cary NC






Re: ARA Diagrams

Ted Culotta
 

Charlie and anyone else interested,

I have drawn characters for lettering of freight cars for close to 100 different roads, including many from actual drawings of the characters, themselves, and if there is a standard, I have not come across it. I believe that each road exercised some pride or at the very least, identity, in its lettering. If there was a standard, I doubt many roads adopted it.

To answer a different question, I use Adobe Illustrator for my lettering.

Cheers,
Ted

Ted Culotta
Speedwitch Media
P.O. Box 392, Guilford, CT 06437


Re: NYRB Ventilated cars mysteries

Tim O'Connor
 

I forgot to include this photo of a 734-B. It has been repainted, and with door gussets,
but otherwise as built.

Tim

--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: NYRB Ventilated cars mysteries

Tim O'Connor
 


??

Peter, I don't know what that web site says, but NYC 179000 was an 832-B not a 734-B.

Did you mean to type 159000? That was the original series for lot 734-B.

The "snippet" you included shows that NYRX is the more recent change to the ORER. I'm
guessing those NYRB reporting marks didn't last long - I have never seen a photo of a
car with NYRB reporting marks, while I have a dozen photos of NYRX cars.

In any case the NYRX rebuilds of 734-B cars retained the RP flush roofs and 5/5 ends,
while receiving wider 8 foot door openings (actual plug door width wider, maybe 8'3")
and a reinforced side sill. These rebuilds lasted into the 1970's.

Tim O'Connor

============================

Thanks very much for the information. My source on info for the NYRX and EDRX rebuilds from Lot 734B is the database on the Canadian Southern website.
 
Looking at the photo of NYC 179000 on the website in comparison with NYRX 2528, I guess Im thinking that since the side sills are different and the 8W sliding plug door was slapped on the side, I guess I can think the ends, and perhaps running boards were changes, too, maybe?  After all, if these were insulated cars, they had to take something apart to make the construction insulated?
 
Nothing like a good mystery!
 
Attached is a snippet from the January 1959 ORER showing both NYRB and NYRX cars and the drawing from the Canadian Southern website for both ERDX 110000-series and NYRX2500-series.
 
Peter Ness

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: ARA Diagrams

mark_landgraf
 

Charlie

BN donated all of the freight car drawings from the 5 predecessor railroads to DeGolyer Library. To the best of my knowledge, the collection does exist but in an uncatalogged state. Because it is uncatalogged it is not available for research. Surely it contains stenciling drawings for the Q.

How you get the collection opened up will probably take several people volunteering to catalog the collection. You have to have access to the collection in order to catalog it. Where and how you choose to catalog it is a more personal thing.

The CB&Q steam loco drawing collection is also there in the same uncatalogged state.

Here in New York, and also in Maine, I have had good results by contacting the state agency that over sees museums. Making a request to the state and asking for assistance in gaining access to these obscure collections. In my experience, a museum becomes a whole lot more welcoming after receiving an inquiry from their state oversight agency. Once this door is opened, you better be prepared to travel and spend a bunch of time with the collection.

Be prepared to copy the info you'll need without removing anything from the site. I've set up the back of the SUV with a PC and a scanner for these kinds of trips. Backed up to their loading dock and an extension cord into the building, got me the images I needed scanned.

I would have a conversation with their archivist about their rules and what they will allow before getting in the car.

Mark Landgraf
Albany NY


--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 9/16/18, Charlie Vlk <cvlk@comcast.net> wrote:

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ARA Diagrams
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Date: Sunday, September 16, 2018, 1:06 PM

All
I regularly
use photos to prepare L&P artwork and will do so for
CB&Q as there are so many variations between different
cars.
I am just trying to understand the
source for the lettering since everything was referenced so
thoroughly “back in the day”. 
It
seems curious that no Q drawings or numbers have been found
for lettering.....just the ARA reference.
Charlie Vlk


Re: ARA Diagrams

mark_landgraf
 

Charlie

BN donated all of the freight car drawings from the 5 predecessor railroads to DeGolyer Library. To the best of my knowledge, the collection does exist but in an uncatalogged state. Because it is uncatalogged it is not available for research. Surely it contains stenciling drawings for the Q.

How you get the collection opened up will probably take several people volunteering to catalog the collection. You have to have access to the collection in order to catalog it. Where and how you choose to catalog it is a more personal thing.

The CB&Q steam loco drawing collection is also there in the same uncatalogged state.

Here in New York, and also in Maine, I have had good results by contacting the state agency that over sees museums. Making a request to the state and asking for assistance in gaining access to these obscure collections. In my experience, a museum becomes a whole lot more welcoming after receiving an inquiry from their state oversight agency. Once this door is opened, you better be prepared to travel and spend a bunch of time with the collection.

Be prepared to copy the info you'll need without removing anything from the site. I've set up the back of the SUV with a PC and a scanner for these kinds of trips. Backed up to their loading dock and an extension cord into the building, got me the images I needed scanned.

I would have a conversation with their archivist about their rules and what they will allow before getting in the car.

Mark Landgraf
Albany NY


--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 9/16/18, Charlie Vlk <cvlk@comcast.net> wrote:

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ARA Diagrams
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Date: Sunday, September 16, 2018, 1:06 PM

All
I regularly
use photos to prepare L&P artwork and will do so for
CB&Q as there are so many variations between different
cars.
I am just trying to understand the
source for the lettering since everything was referenced so
thoroughly “back in the day”. 
It
seems curious that no Q drawings or numbers have been found
for lettering.....just the ARA reference.
Charlie Vlk


Re: ARA Diagrams

mark_landgraf
 

Charlie

BN donated all of the freight car drawings from the 5 predecessor railroads to DeGolyer Library. To the best of my knowledge, the collection does exist but in an uncatalogged state. Because it is uncatalogged it is not available for research. Surely it contains stenciling drawings for the Q.

How you get the collection opened up will probably take several people volunteering to catalog the collection. You have to have access to the collection in order to catalog it. Where and how you choose to catalog it is a more personal thing.

The CB&Q steam loco drawing collection is also there in the same uncatalogged state.

Here in New York, and also in Maine, I have had good results by contacting the state agency that over sees museums. Making a request to the state and asking for assistance in gaining access to these obscure collections. In my experience, a museum becomes a whole lot more welcoming after receiving an inquiry from their state oversight agency. Once this door is opened, you better be prepared to travel and spend a bunch of time with the collection.

Be prepared to copy the info you'll need without removing anything from the site. I've set up the back of the SUV with a PC and a scanner for these kinds of trips. Backed up to their loading dock and an extension cord into the building, got me the images I needed scanned.

I would have a conversation with their archivist about their rules and what they will allow before getting in the car.

Mark Landgraf
Albany NY


--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 9/16/18, Charlie Vlk <cvlk@comcast.net> wrote:

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ARA Diagrams
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Date: Sunday, September 16, 2018, 1:06 PM

All
I regularly
use photos to prepare L&P artwork and will do so for
CB&Q as there are so many variations between different
cars.
I am just trying to understand the
source for the lettering since everything was referenced so
thoroughly “back in the day”. 
It
seems curious that no Q drawings or numbers have been found
for lettering.....just the ARA reference.
Charlie Vlk


Re: NYRB Ventilated cars mysteries

Peter Ness
 

Tim, Seth,

 

Thanks very much for the information. My source on info for the NYRX and EDRX rebuilds from Lot 734B is the database on the Canadian Southern website.

 

Looking at the photo of NYC 179000 on the website in comparison with NYRX 2528, I guess I’m thinking that since the side sills are different and the 8’W sliding plug door was slapped on the side, I guess I can think the ends, and perhaps running boards were changes, too, maybe?  After all, if these were insulated cars, they had to take something apart to make the construction insulated?

 

Nothing like a good mystery!

 

Attached is a snippet from the January 1959 ORER showing both NYRB and NYRX cars and the drawing from the Canadian Southern website for both ERDX 110000-series and NYRX2500-series.

 

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2018 6:58 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] NYRB Ventilated cars mysteries

 


 > I have not seen any photos of the NYRX cars, but in 1958 I'm assuming they were
 > mechanical refrigerators without hatches
 > Peter Ness


   Seth Lakin replied -
     NYRB 2500-2599 are the same cars as the NYRX 2500-2599 cars. Both the ERDX 11000-11049
     and NYRB 2500-2599 were converted from NYC lot 743-B boxcars. Under MDT-NRL specification 244.
     These were converted by DSI under construction lot 936 (different from NYC Lot 936).

-----------------

If Seth is correct that NYRX 2528 was from lot 743-B (DSI 1945) then they must have replaced
the ENDS too, because this car (photo attached) has 5-5 Dreadnaught ends, while the 743-B box cars
all had postwar dreadnaught ends with a 4/4 rib pattern. I've always assumed these NYRX "Early
Bird" box cars were rebuilt from 1940 AAR design box cars - 734-B or 735-B.

These NYRX 2500-2599 cars were the only other NYC freight cars to receive the Early Bird logo.
Champ produced decal sets for these cars (HR-57 and later SHS-257) but Greg Komar produced a much
improved set, KOMAR #83.

Tim O'Connor


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: NYRB Ventilated cars mysteries

Seth Lakin
 

My mistake Tim, I guess it was fat fingers on a small iPhone keypad. The ERDX11000-11049 and NRRB/NYRX 2500-2599 cars were rebuilt from lot 734-B boxes not the 743-B that I had posted earlier.

Seth Lakin
Michigan City IN 


Re: 1942 Airplane load in boxcar

Bruce Smith
 

​Andy,


Great photos!  As I posted back in 2008 ;) the car is an L&N car.  There is video of this operation as well as stills.  Note too the added propellor in some photos to disguise that this is a jet.


Regards

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Andy Laurent via Groups.Io <andy.laurent@...>
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2018 3:58 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] 1942 Airplane load in boxcar
 
Gents,
Attached picture was posted by Edwards Air Force Base on their Instagram account today. It shows the prototype XP-59 jet being unloaded from an auto boxcar in September 1942. 

Andy
Iowa

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