Date   

Re: SOUTHERN 41'6" flat car questions

O Fenton Wells
 

I'm not sure the exact date but close or sometime in 1958.  Or close to that.
Fenton Wells

On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 11:54 AM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
Bill

Southern (CNO&TP) Pullman Standard 70 ton hoppers 281000 to 281299 were
delivered in oxide red paint and Roman lettering in 1957. Similar ACF hoppers
delivered in 1953 were (I think) painted black. So the change was in the
1950's but I don't know precisely when it happened. I also don't know the
date of the change to sans-serif letters.

Tim O'Connor



I have always thought that open top Southern freight equipment during the period of this list was black.
Bill Welch




--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: SOUTHERN 41'6" flat car questions

Tim O'Connor
 

Bill

Southern (CNO&TP) Pullman Standard 70 ton hoppers 281000 to 281299 were
delivered in oxide red paint and Roman lettering in 1957. Similar ACF hoppers
delivered in 1953 were (I think) painted black. So the change was in the
1950's but I don't know precisely when it happened. I also don't know the
date of the change to sans-serif letters.

Tim O'Connor



I have always thought that open top Southern freight equipment during the period of this list was black.
Bill Welch


Re: Poultry Cars: LPT 1023, PTC 1461 & Others

Jim Allen
 

I have really been enjoying and learning alot from this Poultry thread.  I am a D&RGW fan.  You posted a picture of a car.  I blew it up and was looking closely at it.  So here are some more questions.  What is written on the car door?   Under the door, on the sill it has something and then a date.... looks like 1-31-42?  and under that D&RGW as clear as day.   Was that car assigned to the D&RGW?  Serviced by D&RGW?  Owned by D&RGW?  Obviously has some connection to it and or traveled on D&RGW trackage.  

Just trying to understand the markings etc.  I may just have to model one or two of that car!

Thanks for the help and insight.

Jim Allen



--
Jim Allen
Utah


Re: Poultry Cars: LPT 1023, PTC 1461 & Others

Jim Allen
 

How far west do you think these cars went?


Jim


Sent from my LG Escape2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

--
Jim Allen
Utah


Re: SOUTHERN 41'6" flat car questions

Tim O'Connor
 


They can't both be. In "outside length" they are listed as

  115000 to 116599 were 40ft 11in
  116600 to 116849 were 41ft 4in
  116850 to 117999 were 42ft 4in

Tim O'Connor



Are these two photos from the design being discussed?

Attachments:


Re: SOUTHERN 41'6" flat car questions

O Fenton Wells
 

You might want to check the Red Caboose car.  I have never done this as I purchased enough from Gary Wright.  But that was where I was going if I couldn't find the resin kits.  Some bashing may be in order depending on how close you want to come to the SR car.
Fenton Wells

On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 12:52 AM, Bruce Griffin <bdg1210@...> wrote:
Group,

It was suggested that the kits might be more easily available through DesPlaines Hobbies. They do not have this kit on their inventory. Right now I am in a buy mode for kits as my stash seems small enough to finish in a reasonable time. Any other thoughts on a getting a copy?  As a B&O modeler I am also looking for a copy of the resin “gon” the B&ORRHS sold, maybe an O-24 class, that has a similar look to the Southern flat car with sides. Thanks in advance.

Best Regards,
Bruce D. Griffin
Ashland, MD (not a town with a PO anymore, but a place forever on the PRR NCR)





--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: SOUTHERN 41'6" flat car questions

O Fenton Wells
 

You are correct Bill.
Fenton

On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 3:42 AM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:
I have always thought that open top Southern freight equipment during the period of this list was black.

Bill Welch




--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: SOUTHERN 41'6" flat car questions

Bruce Smith
 

Let me clarify ;)

#117644 is  COMPOSITE GONDOLA based on the same flat car as the series being discussed.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Jul 11, 2018, at 8:25 AM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Bill,

Nope.  

#117644 is a later class that is very similar 41’6” flat
#115848 is an earlier 40’ car. Note that the sill steps are attached to the side and not the bottom of the sill

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith            
Auburn, AL
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Jul 11, 2018, at 2:39 AM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Are these two photos from the design being discussed? <wood side gon 117644 .tif><flat car 115848 .tif>



Re: SOUTHERN 41'6" flat car questions

Bruce Smith
 

Bill,

Nope.  

#117644 is a later class that is very similar 41’6” flat
#115848 is an earlier 40’ car. Note that the sill steps are attached to the side and not the bottom of the sill

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Jul 11, 2018, at 2:39 AM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Are these two photos from the design being discussed? <wood side gon 117644 .tif><flat car 115848 .tif>


Re: SOUTHERN 41'6" flat car questions

Bill Welch
 

I have always thought that open top Southern freight equipment during the period of this list was black.

Bill Welch


Re: SOUTHERN 41'6" flat car questions

Bill Welch
 

Are these two photos from the design being discussed?


Re: Poultry Cars: Guidance on Colors?

Eric Bergh
 

Any thoughts on the colors of these poultry cars? I can only  find one prototype (postcard/baseball card) reference showing a "Live Poultry" car with a Red roof, ends and door and black mesh and bottom rail/running gear.

Models run the game from Ambroid's suggestion of White sides and Dark Green roof/ends with a black lower rail, Northeastern with all white and a black bottom rail, a Mainline kit with Red sides/roof/ends and rail and yellow door, a Brass kit that was ALL yellow, and another brass one that had white sides, a black roof, yellow ends and bottom rail and red trucks! 

Could any of these schemes be real??? Lots of old grey and white photos on the web... but sure hard to figure this out :)
-Eric


Re: SOUTHERN 41'6" flat car questions

Bruce Griffin
 

Group,

It was suggested that the kits might be more easily available through DesPlaines Hobbies. They do not have this kit on their inventory. Right now I am in a buy mode for kits as my stash seems small enough to finish in a reasonable time. Any other thoughts on a getting a copy? As a B&O modeler I am also looking for a copy of the resin “gon” the B&ORRHS sold, maybe an O-24 class, that has a similar look to the Southern flat car with sides. Thanks in advance.

Best Regards,
Bruce D. Griffin
Ashland, MD (not a town with a PO anymore, but a place forever on the PRR NCR)


Re: Universal vertical brake wheel - Gene Green

Gene Green <genegreen1942@...>
 

First, let's clarify some terms.  Vertical wheel, perhaps contrary to logic, refers to a hand brake upon which the hand wheel rotates on a vertical plane.  An example would be the Ajax hand brake on a box car.  Flat cars typically had horizontal wheel hand brakes, that is the hand wheel rotated on a horizontal plane.  I would expect, but do not know, that flat cars in use in 1951 would mostly have horizontal wheel hand brakes.  Which are you seeking?
If you prefer, we can communicate off list at genegreen1942 at yahoo dot com.
Gene Green


Re: Universal vertical brake wheel - Gene Green

Peter Ness
 

HI Chris,

 

Good to hear from you.  Yes, in the earlier topic I found the link to Richards super article, and Richard reached out to me about this, too.  Matter of fact, I searched the STMFC photo albums and found Gene’s awesome gallery of brake wheels also.  Alas, none of these are the Vertical staff type that Gene covered in his 2000 NMRA clinic, which I do not own.  Many thanks for writing.

 

Regards,

Peter

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of bigfourroad
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2018 6:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Universal vertical brake wheel - Gene Green

 

Peter
I don't know whether you have visited yet but my first stop would be Richard Bale's article (in fact his series) on brakes in the Model Railroad Hobbyist November 2013 issue.
http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/magazine/mrh-2013-11-nov/guide-to-hand-brakes
Chris Rooney


Re: SOUTHERN 41'6" flat car questions

Bruce Smith
 

Ike,

So you're saying that these flat cars were black through the late 1950s? The directions indicate that the cars were freight car red, and I just finished applying that paint! Especially important would be the paint for my June 1944 era...

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
________________________________________
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2018 5:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] SOUTHERN 41'6" flat car questions

Bruce:
Your’e welcome…now let’s get some PRR drawings in circulation!

One of the tidbits that disappeared from the Southern stencil diagrams in the twenties was paint colors. At first they referenced paint by storehouse numbers (I have never seen a complete reference), then they would say “painted per specification”…which may or not have actually been in the spec. Drawing SF-3993 replaced SF-3400, 3411 and SF-3390 on 12-17-57 with the same lettering but it makes no mention of paint colors except to say “roping staple to be painted with Sou. Ry spec No. 145 white stencil paint”.

1957-1960 saw both the standard freight car color change from black to “freight car brown” for open top cars and lettering change from Roman to block style. Revenue house cars were only and always painted freight car brown since before the creation of the SR. The color change came first so Roman (serif) lettering is possible on “red” cars but photos of that combination are very rare.

Factoid…..Not painted at all but the first Big Johns were delivered with Roman lettering. They sat in storage until after the Supreme Court rate case. Per D.W. Brosnan, they were re-lettered in the familiar block style before revenue service (“Big John” came slightly later).

SF-30772, drawn 10-25-67 (same cars, but now only shown as “flats”) shows the block lettering style. The Southern was very particular about car lettering, virtually every car series had its own stencil drawing, there was no system wide “standard” paint or stencil drawing or bulletin. A new drawing would usually not be produced unless the series it showed was due a major rebuilding that would include a re-paint. So, drawings such as SF-30772 show block lettering long after that became “standard”. While many series never had updated stencil drawings made, wreck rebuilds or work at contract shops or outlying RIP tracks created oddball schemes on their own. If all they had available were serif style stencils and freight car red paint, that’s what left the shop.


Undecorated InterMountain kits

Bill Welch
 

This company has some Undec. IM kits: https://www.tmrdistributing.com/

I just ordered three.

Bill Welch


Re: SOUTHERN 41'6" flat car questions

George Eichelberger
 

Bruce:
Your’e welcome…now let’s get some PRR drawings in circulation!

One of the tidbits that disappeared from the Southern stencil diagrams in the twenties was paint colors. At first they referenced paint by storehouse numbers (I have never seen a complete reference), then they would say “painted per specification”…which may or not have actually been in the spec. Drawing SF-3993 replaced SF-3400, 3411 and SF-3390 on 12-17-57 with the same lettering but it makes no mention of paint colors except to say “roping staple to be painted with Sou. Ry spec No. 145 white stencil paint”.

1957-1960 saw both the standard freight car color change from black to “freight car brown” for open top cars and lettering change from Roman to block style. Revenue house cars were only and always painted freight car brown since before the creation of the SR. The color change came first so Roman (serif) lettering is possible on “red” cars but photos of that combination are very rare.

Factoid…..Not painted at all but the first Big Johns were delivered with Roman lettering. They sat in storage until after the Supreme Court rate case. Per D.W. Brosnan, they were re-lettered in the familiar block style before revenue service (“Big John” came slightly later).

SF-30772, drawn 10-25-67 (same cars, but now only shown as “flats”) shows the block lettering style. The Southern was very particular about car lettering, virtually every car series had its own stencil drawing, there was no system wide “standard” paint or stencil drawing or bulletin. A new drawing would usually not be produced unless the series it showed was due a major rebuilding that would include a re-paint. So, drawings such as SF-30772 show block lettering long after that became “standard”. While many series never had updated stencil drawings made, wreck rebuilds or work at contract shops or outlying RIP tracks created oddball schemes on their own. If all they had available were serif style stencils and freight car red paint, that’s what left the shop.


Re: Universal vertical brake wheel - Gene Green

bigfourroad
 

Peter
I don't know whether you have visited yet but my first stop would be Richard Bale's article (in fact his series) on brakes in the Model Railroad Hobbyist November 2013 issue.
http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/magazine/mrh-2013-11-nov/guide-to-hand-brakes
Chris Rooney


Looking to Purchase InterMountain Southern LO. . .

Bill Welch
 

Does anyone here have one of IM's Southern covered hoppers to sell—

their
#48630-01 car # 94009
#48630-02 car # 94028
#48630-03 car # 94031
#48630-04 car # 94063
#48630-05 car # 94114
or
#48630-06 car # 94132

If so please contact me offline at fgexbill(at)tampabay.rr.com substituting @ for (at)

Thank you!

Bill Welch

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