Date   

Re: fabulous freight cars

Charles Happel
 

These cars were in captive service between several shippers and terminals in Chicago and the huge LCL freight house in Proviso yard

Chuck Happel
C&NW fan.

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
George Carlin

--------------------------------------------

On Wed, 8/29/18, vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@gmx.net> wrote:

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] fabulous freight cars
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Date: Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 4:18 PM


Really interesting photos!

Anyone seen a box car end as on the car just behind the
track gang before?:

 

http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/271ef23120a8a912_large

 

Greetings

 

Johannes

 

Gesendet: Mittwoch,
29. August 2018 um 21:43 Uhr

Von: "Jack Mullen"
<jack.f.mullen@gmail.com>

An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io

Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] fabulous freight cars

Cool, another photographer at Proviso Yard during WW2
!

Thanks, Eldon.



The big X marks trap cars in dedicated service between
C&NW freighthouses.



Jack Mullen


Re: fabulous freight cars

vapeurchapelon
 

Really interesting photos!
Anyone seen a box car end as on the car just behind the track gang before?:
 
http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/271ef23120a8a912_large
 
Greetings
 
Johannes
 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 29. August 2018 um 21:43 Uhr
Von: "Jack Mullen" <jack.f.mullen@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] fabulous freight cars
Cool, another photographer at Proviso Yard during WW2 !
Thanks, Eldon.

The big X marks trap cars in dedicated service between C&NW freighthouses.

Jack Mullen


Re: Reefers: Heaters

gnryfan
 

Nelson:
   I DO model heaters and heater service on my layout, thanks to some 3D printed (HO) Kerosene Preco heaters available through Shapeways. https://www.shapeways.com/product/ZJ3PRG64F/kerosene-heaters-for-reefers-ho-scale-x50?optionId=42258423.  They also have the charcoal heaters, too. https://www.shapeways.com/product/37P7EDL64/charcoal-heaters-for-reefers-ho-scale-x30?optionId=40283583.  The Preco's especially, are cheap detail parts for your icing platforms!
When you're modelling icing, you need to ice the car, re-ice it, etc. various ways. Heating is more complex. You need to install and remove the heaters, re-fuel the heater, AND, you cannot enter a heated car until 30 minutes after the heater has been shut off and the doors opened, to dissipate carbon monoxide...so it adds a little twist to unloading oeprations.  I handle all of these with extra tags that go in the waybill slot on my car cards.  It adds another dimension to the movement of fruit and perishables.

Joe Berger
Great Northern Railway (HO)
Cascade Division


Re: fabulous freight cars

Dennis Storzek
 

Scrolling through the collection, here is a good photo of the narrow gauge material tramway at the Proviso RIP track, used to repair steam era freightcars.
Tramway

Dennis Storzek


Re: Reefers: Heaters

gnryfan
 

Nelson:


Re: fabulous freight cars

Jack Mullen
 

Cool, another photographer at Proviso Yard during WW2 !
Thanks, Eldon.

The big X marks trap cars in dedicated service between C&NW freighthouses.

Jack Mullen


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] fabulous freight cars

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Thanks, Dennis!

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 3:27 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] fabulous freight cars

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 12:08 PM, John Barry wrote:


They were trap cars in LCL service if memory serves.

IIRC they were cars that were restricted to shuttling between freight houses in the Chicago terminal. I imagine the big X was pretty effective at keeping them from escaping.

Dennis Storzek


Re: fabulous freight cars

Dennis Storzek
 

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 12:08 PM, John Barry wrote:
They were trap cars in LCL service if memory serves.
IIRC they were cars that were restricted to shuttling between freight houses in the Chicago terminal. I imagine the big X was pretty effective at keeping them from escaping.

Dennis Storzek


Re: fabulous freight cars

John Barry
 

Explosives. NOT!

They were trap cars in LCL service if memory serves.

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA


707-490-9696 


PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736

--------------------------------------------

On Wed, 8/29/18, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil> wrote:

Subject: [RealSTMFC] fabulous freight cars
To: "RealSTMFC@groups.io" <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Date: Wednesday, August 29, 2018, 11:53 AM

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/0117dc643514cf78.html

...and I know I have been told, but
what did the big "X" mean, again?

Elden Gatwood


fabulous freight cars

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/0117dc643514cf78.html

...and I know I have been told, but what did the big "X" mean, again?

Elden Gatwood


Re: Icing in general

Tony Thompson
 

Time intervals could be specified under the tariff. I don't know the relative proportion of the various options in actual use.
Tony Thompson 


On Aug 29, 2018, at 10:14 AM, Aley, Jeff A <Jeff.A.Aley@...> wrote:

To add a little bit of detail to Tony’s comment (that the Shipper got to choose), a UP Freight Conductor’s book noted the following different icing instructions for cars in the train (Roseville Fruit, departing Rawlins, WY on 10/13/1938):

 

Standard Ventilation = no ice, hatches open/closed based upon ambient temperatures.

 

Vents Closed to Destination = no ice, hatches closed.

 

Do Not Re-ice = iced initially, but no ice added enroute.

 

Re-Ice at _____ = re-iced only at specific location(s).

 

Standard Refrigeration = re-iced at all regular icing stations.

 

Std. Refrig with 12% salt = re-iced with 12% salt at all regular icing stations

 

One car was noted as having Std. Ventilation to Laramie, then Std. Refrigeration.

 

I notice that quantity of ice is not specified, which is consistent with Tony’s comment that they filled the bunkers.

I also notice that durations (time) are not specified; only locations (regular icing stations or specific icing stations).  Perhaps the duration info was translated into location for the benefit of the conductor.

 

The above data is from a presentation given by Mark Amfahr at the UPHS convention in 2013.

 

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 10:00 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Icing in general

 

    This was decided by the shipper. Normally 24 hours would be selected, but in cool weather a shipper could choose a longer interval (or could specify the icing stations used). In hot weather, they could specify shorter times. They could even choose to let the railroad make sure ice was "sufficient," but railroads hated that because they were then easily the victims of damage claims. I'm sure local agents worked hard to talk shippers out of that option.

 

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com

(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...

Publishers of books on railroad history

 

 



 


Re: Icing in general

Aley, Jeff A
 

To add a little bit of detail to Tony’s comment (that the Shipper got to choose), a UP Freight Conductor’s book noted the following different icing instructions for cars in the train (Roseville Fruit, departing Rawlins, WY on 10/13/1938):

 

Standard Ventilation = no ice, hatches open/closed based upon ambient temperatures.

 

Vents Closed to Destination = no ice, hatches closed.

 

Do Not Re-ice = iced initially, but no ice added enroute.

 

Re-Ice at _____ = re-iced only at specific location(s).

 

Standard Refrigeration = re-iced at all regular icing stations.

 

Std. Refrig with 12% salt = re-iced with 12% salt at all regular icing stations

 

One car was noted as having Std. Ventilation to Laramie, then Std. Refrigeration.

 

I notice that quantity of ice is not specified, which is consistent with Tony’s comment that they filled the bunkers.

I also notice that durations (time) are not specified; only locations (regular icing stations or specific icing stations).  Perhaps the duration info was translated into location for the benefit of the conductor.

 

The above data is from a presentation given by Mark Amfahr at the UPHS convention in 2013.

 

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 10:00 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Icing in general

 

    This was decided by the shipper. Normally 24 hours would be selected, but in cool weather a shipper could choose a longer interval (or could specify the icing stations used). In hot weather, they could specify shorter times. They could even choose to let the railroad make sure ice was "sufficient," but railroads hated that because they were then easily the victims of damage claims. I'm sure local agents worked hard to talk shippers out of that option.

 

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com

(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...

Publishers of books on railroad history

 

 



 


Re: Reefers: Heaters

Nelson Moyer
 

I was just reporting what I read. You didn't mention which railroad(s). Maybe some converted sooner? Weren't ice reefers about phased out by the early 1970. I think I read that the last icing platform was owned by PFE, and it was closed in either 1974 or 1976. Many roads switched to mechanical reefers earlier than that. I guess all the heater discussion is purely academic, since we don't model heaters or heater service.

Nelson Moyer

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Walter
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 10:40 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Reefers: Heaters

Nelson,

I was refueling charcoal heaters into 1970.

Lenny Ohrnell


Preco Mechanical Icing Machine

Bob Chaparro
 

This week I discovered that Preco made mechanical icing machines, as evidenced by the label on the machine in the photo:

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IZsk7Dl1CQ8/V7ksZ2CB1WI/AAAAAAAANKo/aAxekuPw7Jw0MNp4a4DQ9OEf3kmVKFA6gCLcB/s1600/2001.1.20024.jpg

The Link Belt Company also made mechanical icing machines and related systems.  Unfortunately, when I contacted Link Belt, nobody knew that they had once been in that business and no material was available.

Does anyone know if there were other major players in the mechanical icing machine business?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Icing Reefers In Maine

Bob Chaparro
 

Totally agree but the shippers and USDA were still testing methods in that era. I think (but have no documentation) that the shippers were going on the cheap for the first 24 hours of the trip, hoping the blocks would work just well enough while allowing them to avoid carrier icing charges.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: Icing Reefers In Maine

Geodyssey
 

"...The method is to fill the bunkers with block ice corded or laid in such manner as to form practically a solid mass. In this way it is possible to place 15,000 to 16,000 pounds of block ice in bunkers of refrigerator cars which have a rated capacity of 11,000 pounds of chunk ice." (USDA)

I didn't know this. Looks like that's what they were doing in the photo. Thanks.

Robert Simpson


Re: Reefers: Heaters

Bob Chaparro
 

There are Jack Delano photos showing the older, larger charcoal heaters being lowered into cars in 1943. The newer alcohol heaters were smaller and required less work to load. Below are some photos from my collection.
Bob Chaparro
Railroad Citrus Industry Modeling Group
https://groups.io/g/RailroadCitrusIndustryModelingGroup


Re: Shrouded tank cars: floors?

Richard Townsend
 

Thanks so much, Steve. Maybe more than I asked for but just what I wanted to know. I appreciate it.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Aug 29, 2018 5:58 am
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Shrouded tank cars: floors?

The Monsanto car in St. Louis does not have a floor under its hood.  A photo is attached.
 
It is my belief that such cars, in general, did not have floors.  The hood (shroud, etc?) often covered heating coils that were external to the tank due to potential issues relating to the interaction between the tank contents and any escaping steam/water.  UTLX pioneered such a car circa 1914 for carrying paraffin wax.  Later uses included transformer oil.
 
The Monsanto car does not have heater coils, however.  So that it could also be related to trapping noxious gases.
 
More than you asked for, but less that definitive.
 
Steve Hile


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Richard Townsend via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 1:04 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Shrouded tank cars: floors?

There were some tank cars with shrouds (for insulation?) that curved across the top of the car and then went down vertically to the cars' running boards. Examples are on p. 18 of Jim Kinkaid's Tank Car Color Guide volume 1 (Morning Sun) and one, a Monsanto car, is preserved at the transportation museum in St. Louis. Ambroid's old Riverside Oil Company tank car kit is another example. But my question is this: did these cars have full floors, or was the car open frame like any other tank car? Or maybe partial floors?

And no, these are not removable containers like on the butterdish milk cars.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


Bending curved grab irons - Kadee pliers

Jim King
 

I use Kadee’s coupler trip pin pliers to create various round shapes in HO, S and O.  While the various steps don’t equate to an exact radius, it gets me close so that minor adjustment finishes the part.

 

Jim King

www.smokymountainmodelworks.com

 


Re: Reefers: Heaters

Walter
 

Nelson,

I was refueling charcoal heaters into 1970.

Lenny Ohrnell

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