Date   
Re: WP conversion

Fred Jansz
 
Edited

Garth,
You discussed those cars with me (among others).
John's pictures and info is stashed away at the moment, so out of reach.
I also supplied you with copies of the Pullman drawings.

The last original -but renumbered- Pullman cars remaining on the WP roster were the 26001-26125 plaster cars and they stayed -in MW- until the end of WP in 1983.
These were the last remaining cars on the roster, not the 8051-series tool cars.
See the enclosed 1964 diagram.

cheers
Fred Jansz

Re: WP conversion

mel perry
 

hi:
how were the seams or joints sealed?
thanks
mrl perry

On Tue, Dec 10, 2019, 12:31 AM Fred Jansz <fred@...> wrote:
Guys,

I have copies of the Pullman drawings, pictures of the cars in question and I can assure you the roof of these cars consisted of overlapping steel sheets through their lifes from 1916-1983.
Like I wrote before:
- 10 sheets of 3' 5"
- 2 (end) sheets of 3'-3 7/16"
There were NO outside battens, but inside ribs.
Also the caboose roof did not have battens.
The MM drawings are not 100% correct: especially the roof, which has one weird smaller panel  somewhere halfway the roof. See drawing:

And the accurail car is a bad stand-in: roof is wrong, underbody is wrong, it's too tall and ....sigh.

Fred Jansz

Re: WP conversion

Fred Jansz
 

Guys,

I have copies of the Pullman drawings, pictures of the cars in question and I can assure you the roof of these cars consisted of overlapping steel sheets through their lifes from 1916-1983.
Like I wrote before:
- 10 sheets of 3' 5"
- 2 (end) sheets of 3'-3 7/16"
There were NO outside battens, but inside ribs.
Also the caboose roof did not have battens.
The MM drawings are not 100% correct: especially the roof, which has one weird smaller panel  somewhere halfway the roof. See drawing:

And the accurail car is a bad stand-in: roof is wrong, underbody is wrong, it's too tall and ....sigh.

Fred Jansz

Re: HO Scale Utah Coal Route GS Gondola Kits Available

Corey Bonsall
 

Hi Larry,

I'm 3D printing these at home on a Formlabs Form 2 SLA resin printer, it uses a acrylic liquid resin that is UV photo-sensitive.  I do end up with some support blemishes on one side of the car, but those can be manipulated in the printer software to be on easily-sandable locations.  Its a wholly different animal than the cast resins or styrene.

I'm also doing the decals myself, using a Ghost White laser toner cartridge on Microscale paper.

Tim, I'm still learning Inkscape to do the artwork, but my middle age and one bad eye must be getting to me, I cannot see hardly any difference between the model and the photo.  That is one of the very photos I stared at for days to create the artwork too.  I am probably biased though...

These cars did have a lot of similar cousins, I think the CB&Q/C&S had some very close, as well as the 43k series D&RGW.  If we tweak the end side sheets, we get the D&SL cars as well.  The main set of prints I used to draft was a pre-WWI USRA pattern with a few tweaks, so some of the design components/ratios showed up in a lot of cars to follow.

Thanks everyone for the feedback,

Corey Bonsall
 

Re: WP conversion

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

What a relief!  With all the discussion about the roof on these cars I was pleased to find when I got home today that Andy got the roof right in his kit.
The plan in the March 1990 Mainline Modeler also featured the correct roof..

Bill Pardie


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Paul Doggett via Groups.Io" <paul.doggett2472@...>
Date: 12/9/19 12:54 AM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] WP conversion

Cheers Garth 

I am sanding the roof down it will have to do as a stand in as there’s nothing else available as far as I know.
Paul Doggett. England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 9 Dec 2019, at 10:36, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:


Friends,

While I am loath to argue with Tony about this, I find no evidence or mention of roof replacements to the WP 15001-series boxcars. I have copies of several of the general arrangement diagrams for cars in this series, including the 26001-series in plaster service, 8051-8055 (the last in general service circa 1947, see below), the 75001-series stock cars (which had "single-board" roofs, suggesting the original steel claddding was removed), various cars converted to MW service, and numerous photos in my collection and in several WP books. None offer any indication for roof conversions except the stock cars. I can't say it didn't happen, but I will remain unconvinced until somebody finds photographic or documentary evidence.

The 8051-8055 group should be of particular interest to Fred. The general arrangement drawing was reworked 3-28-47 (only the car numbers were changed). These were apparently the last five such cars in general service, if indeed they actually were still in use. I have the WP July 1949 ORER sheets, and these cars are gone from the roster, as are all the 15001-cars. The 8051 series apparently had a very short life with those numbers.

I suggest the Accurail roof should be sanded smooth and Archer seams added. The car is way too tall to be even a good stand-in (they had just an 8-foot IH, and were 12' 10" and change at the roof peak), which was why I disposed of my examples long ago. 

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff 🦆


On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 9:17 PM Rich C via Groups.Io <rhcdmc=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
It will look great when you give it The Doggett Weathering magic

On Saturday, December 7, 2019, 07:48:23 AM CST, Paul Doggett via Groups.Io <paul.doggett2472=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:


Hi guys

The Accurail conversion is ready for painting and decals for WP I have left the original roof as Tony Thompson reckons some got steel roofs at some stage. The kit bashing is not perfect as I reckon it’s slightly to high but will be a reasonable stand in.


Paul Doggett.  England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿


Re: Building GN and CB&Q Truss Rod 40-Foot Boxcars

Jim Betz
 

Bill,
  Great work - thanks for posting the photos.  I have to admit I cringed
when I saw the slotted screws - perhaps they are just place holders
for what you will use for the final assembly.
                                                                                 - Jim B.

Re: HO Scale Utah Coal Route GS Gondola Kits Available

lrkdbn
 

These cars look extremely well done. Two questions- who does your printing, and what is the resin or plastic that is used?
Sincerely,
Larry King ,<lrkdbn@...>

Re: Another "What do I do with this" quiz

Joseph
 

Clark, I have the articles copied and ready to mail to you)my scanner is not playing with the laptop today)
Joe Binish

On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 6:21 PM Clark Propst <cepropst@q.com> wrote:
Thanks to all!  Yes, Colin is close and Dennis is correct (he should know) The car has 7/8 ends. 
The article Eric provided the link to was for wood ended cars. There is another article on making CV 1 1/2 door cars. 
It's not the same as the F&C car.
All's I need now is the number series and I can have two Canadian lumber cars. I will check the Accurail website for a number series.
CW Propst

Re: WP conversion

Tony Thompson
 

Garth Groff awrote:

While I am loath to argue with Tony about this, I find no evidence or mention of roof replacements to the WP 15001-series boxcars. 

Some years ago I was discussing these cars with someone I believe is knowledgeable about WP modeling (might have been John Ryczkowski) and he mentioned steel outside roofs being applied. Might that have been the caboose conversions, if not the box cars? But that was my basis. I don't have photos.

I suggest the Accurail roof should be sanded smooth and Archer seams added. The car is way too tall to be even a good stand-in (they had just an 8-foot IH, and were 12' 10" and change at the roof peak), which was why I disposed of my examples long ago. 

        Sanding off the ribs would certainly make it look better.

Tony Thompson



Re: Another "What do I do with this" quiz

Clark Propst
 

Thanks to all!  Yes, Colin is close and Dennis is correct (he should know) The car has 7/8 ends. 
The article Eric provided the link to was for wood ended cars. There is another article on making CV 1 1/2 door cars. 
It's not the same as the F&C car.
All's I need now is the number series and I can have two Canadian lumber cars. I will check the Accurail website for a number series.
CW Propst

Re: Another "What do I do with this" quiz

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 03:30 PM, Kemal Mumcu wrote:
Clark's model has dreadnought ends?
Clark's model has 7/8 corrugated ends. While it's true that all this style boxcar built for CNR had single sheathed ends, they did receive an order of door and a half automobile cars that were 9'-0" IH and had corrugated ends. 9'-0" quickly proved to be too small for an auto car, and these were subsequently rebuilt as single door boxcars with steel doors, keeping their original steel ends. That's the prototype for the Accurail 4400 and 4500 series carbody. I unfortunately don't have number series info at my finger tips.

I thought Rail Model Journal did a later article on prototypes for the nine panel Z bar cars with steel ends.

Dennis Storzek

Re: State of Maine 1932 ARA

Gene Deimling
 

Thank you Tim.   The earlier reweigh date I have was 1952.  

Gene Deimling

Re: Another "What do I do with this" quiz

Kemal Mumcu
 

I think we're talking about 2 separate Accurail models if I'm not mistaken. Clark's model has dreadnought ends? The Accurail article refers to a similar single sheathed car with re-enforced ends. I'm not sure which prototype Clark's car represents but it's not CN.

Colin Meikle

Re: Private-Plugging IM bodies

Bill Welch
 

I keep a supply of .010, 015. .020, .025, .030, .035 Plastruct rod to make up for my hole making mistakes or for filling manufacturers holes I do want to use.

Bill Welch

Re: Made a start (WP SS boxcar)

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Thanks Fred!
 
Claus Schlund
 
 

From: Fred Jansz
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2019 1:51 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Made a start (WP SS boxcar)
 
Claus,

PLASTER CAR
WHEN EMPTY
RETURN TO GERLACH

COLLAPSIBLE BULK HEADS

best regards,
Fred Jansz

Re: Building GN and CB&Q Truss Rod 40-Foot Boxcars

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Nice and inspirational Bill.  Thanks for sharing.

Bill



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Bill Welch <fgexbill@...>
Date: 12/9/19 2:59 AM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Building GN and CB&Q Truss Rod 40-Foot Boxcars

Years ago when Al Westerfield was beginning the process of selling his business he let his customers know it might be a good idea to place an order just in case. I ordered several kits just in case. Currently I am building two models from this order, both 40-foot truss boxcars, a GN with Murphy ends and CB&Q with early Dreadnaught ends. There are similarities like the XLA roofs and 5-foot wide door openings plus both utilized underframes with eight truss rods although the spacing between the truss rods was different. I thought I would share a few photos of each so modelers could see and compare the two.

One variation from the CB&Q kit instructions is how I built the ends ladders. One of the right side ladder stiles was missing from the kit so I substituted strip styrene using the cast-on left side stile to sort out the grab iron spacing and before mounting them on the car ends I drilled #79 holes. Then once I attached these parts using the holes already drilled in the styrene, I drilled through the resin ends to create rigid and easy assembly for the wire parts.

With the brake lines and rods in place I will proceed to assemble the truss rods beginning with the two pair of inside rods and working towards the sides. Building a model with so many truss rods is akin to building a sailing ship with all of its rigging. The AB brake parts need to fit between the Queen Posts so their height will not interfere with the truss rods meaning some dry fitting of various parts is important before anything is glued in place. Patience is important here.

Bill Welch

Re: State of Maine 1932 ARA

Tim O'Connor
 

Gene

I think the repainting began in 1952. The cars began to be renumbered in 1950, I think,
but the numbers were just "patched" at that time.




On 12/8/2019 5:39 PM, Gene Deimling wrote:
When did the Bangor and Aroostook start applying the three color State of Maine scheme to their 1932 ARA boxcars?


Thanks
Gene Deimling 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Another "What do I do with this" quiz

Dave Parker
 

There is lots of good info on the Accurail model, and how it relates to specific CN cars in the Hendrickson article that Eric provided the link for in message 168561.  IMO, the model needs some minor bashing to to be accurate, and there are opportunities for some upgrades as well.  Richard's article is a "must read" if you want to make a prototypically correct car out of the Accurail (again, IMO).
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA

Re: Another "What do I do with this" quiz

Clark Propst
 

Rob Kirkham wrote: "The Accurail car is excellent for a CNR car."
I've got a F&C CN SS car waiting for Black Cat decals. Would the Accurail model be the same car? If not what series would the model be in?

Thanks Rod and all,
CW Propst

Building GN and CB&Q Truss Rod 40-Foot Boxcars

Bill Welch
 

Years ago when Al Westerfield was beginning the process of selling his business he let his customers know it might be a good idea to place an order just in case. I ordered several kits just in case. Currently I am building two models from this order, both 40-foot truss boxcars, a GN with Murphy ends and CB&Q with early Dreadnaught ends. There are similarities like the XLA roofs and 5-foot wide door openings plus both utilized underframes with eight truss rods although the spacing between the truss rods was different. I thought I would share a few photos of each so modelers could see and compare the two.

One variation from the CB&Q kit instructions is how I built the ends ladders. One of the right side ladder stiles was missing from the kit so I substituted strip styrene using the cast-on left side stile to sort out the grab iron spacing and before mounting them on the car ends I drilled #79 holes. Then once I attached these parts using the holes already drilled in the styrene, I drilled through the resin ends to create rigid and easy assembly for the wire parts.

With the brake lines and rods in place I will proceed to assemble the truss rods beginning with the two pair of inside rods and working towards the sides. Building a model with so many truss rods is akin to building a sailing ship with all of its rigging. The AB brake parts need to fit between the Queen Posts so their height will not interfere with the truss rods meaning some dry fitting of various parts is important before anything is glued in place. Patience is important here.

Bill Welch