Date   

Re: PE Boxcar 2417

Dave Parker
 

Bob:

Did you attache the wrong photo to this message?  I am seeing PE 10067 (not 2417), and it's pretty clearly a 1940s pic (not 1918).  ????
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

Bruce Griffin
 

Friends,

The B&O converted older boxcars into coke gons by removing the roofs and tying the sides together with steel rods (that was the method in photos I have seen). This was done over several decades and the boxcars reclassified as various subclasses of O-39.This happened from the late 20s into the early 50s with different boxcar classes including some M-8, M-13, M-15, M-24, and M-26 boxcars. Confirming Elden's scenario, I saved a post from the B&O Yahoo Group from 2006 and it tells a similar story by first hand account and added it below.
 

Bruce D. Griffin
Ashland, MD
https://bomodeling.com/blog/

Re: Coke Car

Posted by: "Scott Trostel" blwloco@...   blwloco

Sat Jul 8, 2006 1:21 pm (PST)

I well recall the coke cars in the early 1960s, probably the M-15 series.. The few I saw came to a local foundry. It lacked a between-rails receiving pit, thus the need for a car that could be unloaded similar to a conventional box car. Those cars I saw all had steel underframes and were very much showing their age with badly faded paint, wear, some rust and dents from probably loading.. When loaded, the doors had been cross boarded on the inside with planks. The foudrymen would climb onto the top of the car with flat shovels and start shoveling into an adjacent bin. When they reached a level even with the first board, the door was slid open and the plank removed. The men shoveled directly through the door into the bin. This was repeated until all the planks were removed and the car was finally empty. The planks were returned to the car loose, and the door then closed. They might put four to six men on the car and it would be easily unloaded in a day. I recall
seeing a number of those cars, along with the wagon-top cars sitting on a scrap line outside of a steel mill in Portsmouth, Ohio, just a year or so later. The foundry went over to trucks with the end of the coke cars and is still operating today even though the railroad tracks are gone.
One thing that caught my eye about the few cars I saw in service, they had the "Linking thirteen great states with the nation" logo, which was becoming rare in western Ohio by this time. The same foundry got coal in standard twin B & O hoppers, probably a 50 ton capacity, and they dumped it right onto the track and shoveled it off. All of those cars had a standard "B & O" painted on them. Those twin hoppers, all seemed to disappear about the same time, replaced by a 70 ton triple hopper. The B & O served a stone quarry at Piqua and every day they brought from 50 to 75 empty hoppers. The newer cars were too tall to fit under the tipple, so the quarry lowered the tracks, then a bunch of them lacked what the car knocker called a "stone gussett," which apparently was a corner reenforcement to handle the weight of the more dense stone. If it lacked it, the car was rejected by the railroad agent himself, and many were.

Scott Trostel


Re: Photo: Pacific Electric Boxcar 2082 At El Monte Depot (Undated)

Tony Thompson
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:

Photo: Pacific Electric Boxcar 2082 At El Monte Depot (Undated)
Photo from the Los Angeles Public Library:
Use the slider to enlarge the photo.
I checked Thompson's SP boxcar book and there is no PE series for this car so it doesn't fall into PE cars from SP's Huntington Common Standard or Harriman Period groups.

      The rather miscellaneous fleet of cars acquired by the "new PE" from the "old PE" and elsewhere are quite a complex story, well covered in several PE books, notably _Interurbans Special 37_ which forms Volume III of the complete _Cars of the Pacific Electric_ history. As those early freight cars were not directly SP heritage cars, I chose not to cover them in my SP car volumes. I did offer citations to the Interurbans Special.

Tony Thompson




Re: PE Boxcar 2417

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Bob and Friends,

Old PE boxcars 2072-2124 are listed in CARS OF PACIFIC ELECTRIC V. 3 as being renumbered to New PE 2382-2434, no doubt in conjunction with the 1911 merger which consolidated all the various SP-owned Southern California traction properties into the PE we know and love. There are no photos, diagrams or information about the disposal of these cars.

I found no survivors listed among the MoW cars covered in the above book.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆 



On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 12:24 PM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

PE Boxcar 2417

A friend sent me this photo from the Brea (CA) Museum.

Seen is Pacific Electric boxcar 2417 in Brea in 1918.

I checked Thompson's SP boxcar book and there is no PE series for this car so it doesn't fall into PE cars from SP's Huntington Common Standard or Harriman Period groups.

Michael Starkey commented that this was a forty-ton, forty-foot car built by Mt. Vernon in 1910. It was acquired from the Old Pacific Electric, where it was in the series 2072-2124. 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: Rio Grande Flatcar 23018 (1956)

Jeffrey White
 

I'm patiently waiting.......

Jeff White

Alma, IL

On 10/20/2020 4:46 PM, Chad Boas via groups.io wrote:
Look at the IC hopper in the background. One of these days, I will get around to redoing my kit for that car.
Chad Boas


PE Boxcar 2417

Bob Chaparro
 

PE Boxcar 2417

A friend sent me this photo from the Brea (CA) Museum.

Seen is Pacific Electric boxcar 2417 in Brea in 1918.

I checked Thompson's SP boxcar book and there is no PE series for this car so it doesn't fall into PE cars from SP's Huntington Common Standard or Harriman Period groups.

Michael Starkey commented that this was a forty-ton, forty-foot car built by Mt. Vernon in 1910. It was acquired from the Old Pacific Electric, where it was in the series 2072-2124. 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Pacific Electric Boxcar 2082 At El Monte Depot (Undated)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Pacific Electric Boxcar 2082 At El Monte Depot (Undated)

Photo from the Los Angeles Public Library:

https://tessa.lapl.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/photos/id/85349/rec/180

Use the slider to enlarge the photo.

From Michael Starkey's comments about PE 2417 it appears that 2082 is from

the Old Pacific Electric in the series 2072-2124.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: racks in a stock car 1940

ed_mines
 

Maybe they're racks for tomatoes?


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Matt;

 

I looked into that, also, and don’t think these cars were up to it.  They were old, old, and of early, not very rugged, design and construction.

 

I also cannot find any evidence that there were rotary dumpers used for coke back then.  They were very expensive, and seem to have been used exclusively for high-volume coal and/or ore/pellet dumping at large plants processing hundreds of loads a day.  Not true today.

 

PRR’s experience with rotary dumpers was painful.  Their “standard” hoppers got damaged, particularly in ore service.  Their solution, finally, was to try to segregate coal and coal hoppers, from ore and ore hoppers, in which the ore jennies could not be dumped except by a rotary dumper.  They had large “push pads” instead of end sills, to take the beating rotary dumpers and donkey engines, dished out.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Thomas Evans via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2020 11:20 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

 

I was wondering about that unloading question, too.
Could they have been rotary-dumped?

Tom E.


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Matt;

 

Thanks for confirming that.  I think I have seen a NKP box in that service.

 

As improbable as it sounds, I think they nailed them in place, climbed the ladder to get out, then filled the car, then once at destination, started knocking out boards starting at the top, and moving down.  Finally, shoveling the car out to clear the rest.

 

The attached shows a filling pic that, as crude as it appears, was used for large pieces of flaked coke, so didn’t require the boards be flush with one another.  But the coke is clearly in contact with the boards.

 

The boards at least keep the coke away from the doors, so they can be opened easily to get to the boards to punch them out.

 

Sheesh.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Matt Smith
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2020 11:05 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

 

The Nickel Plate did this with several old Fowlers and later War Emergency SS box cars. For the doors they simply nailed up boards similar to grain boards. 
--
Matt Smith
Bloomington, IL


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

Thomas Evans
 

I was wondering about that unloading question, too.
Could they have been rotary-dumped?

Tom E.


Re: PRR and other coke cars

Matt Smith
 

The Nickel Plate did this with several old Fowlers and later War Emergency SS box cars. For the doors they simply nailed up boards similar to grain boards. 
--
Matt Smith
Bloomington, IL


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Ray;

 

I am, too.  They are not plugs, but added to the back of the doorway.  I cannot find anything on how that was supposed to work, but assume it seals the doorway from escape of coke, although I do not have the paperwork that says what their thinking was.

 

PRR came up with some strange cars, but this beats me.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ray Hutchison
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2020 7:55 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

 

I'm a little bit curious about the doors on the inside of the car?

rh


Re: PRR and other coke cars

Ray Hutchison
 

I'm a little bit curious about the doors on the inside of the car?

rh


Re: Photo: Rio Grande Flatcar 23018 (1956)

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

D&RGW series 23000-23099 were 53' 6", 50-ton cars built by AC&F in 1956. They were nearly identical to series 22000-22199 built in 1944 by Mt. Vernon, and 22200-22249 which were built by the D&RGW itself in 1951. All are close matches for the PK2000 flat car.

Credit Jim Eager for this information. It's from his RIO GRANDE COLOR GUIDE TO FREIGHT AND PASSENGER EQUIPMENT (Morning Sun, 1996).

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 2:43 PM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: Rio Grande Flatcar 23018 (1956)

Photo from the State Historical Society Of Missouri:

https://cdm17228.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/imc/id/12757/rec/9

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: SLRX 4539 (Circa 1947)

Barry Bennett
 

I have a photo of 4815 which is near identical with these ends built in 1937.

Barry Bennett, UK

On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 at 00:01, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:
Friends,

This car was a great find, but it is not quite unique. It is from series 4500-4599 and is an RB, or bunkerless refrigerator. 

What I find most interesting is that we've seen these ends before. A picture posted here sometime ago (I think) shows similar car 4216, part of 4200-4224 which has a similar end. Interesting that this car has an overhanging roof. This car has a 1940 build date, so I would not surprised if it is actually a rebuild, but who knows.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 2:42 PM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: SLRX 4539 (Circa 1947)

Photo from the State Historical Society Of Missouri:

https://cdm17228.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/imc/id/12368/rec/1

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

George;

 

You are certainly right.  Yet the PRR also owned scores of purpose-built coke hoppers (H22).  Plenty for everything the PRR did with coke.  And who the heck wanted to unload a box car full of coke?  I get the “cheap labor” picture, but sheesh.

 

Elden Gatwood.

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of George Courtney via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 6:21 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR and other coke cars

 

I don't know, but it would be cheaper to rebuild old boxcars than assign coal cars to coke service.  I do know by mid-1950's the Interstate had hoppers for use in coke service.  

George Courtney


Re: Is this "DowelLoc" flooring in this box car?

earlyrail
 

Don't know about the brand name,
but it is some type of nailable steel floor

Howard Garner


Re: Photo: FGEX 35754 With Potato Load (1943)

Bill Welch
 

Also note FGEX 35754 has retrofitted Hutchins, (note typical hatch rest with the metal roof) while the WFEX truss rod car has the original double board roof. Some of these old roofs survived into the late 1940's. BREX truss rod cars survived with these wood roofs until they were scrapped.


Re: Photo: FGEX 35754 With Potato Load (1943)

Bill Welch
 

FGEX 35754 is an example of the FGE 1921 style underframe retrofitted w/4-inch steel channel lower sill, also built for WFEX after July 1923. Second car is a WFE Truss Rod reefer. Most FGE/WFE and I THINK most BRE potato traffic originated from Hastings, FLA. (FGE territory) and from WFE territory. In the winter, heaters were used for cars heading east in the winter. The change  from Ice to heaters was labor intensive often requiring some method to melt the ice (propane torches being one method). Pears, onions, potatoes, and apples were among the veggies that did well in cold storage and thus were good candidates for storage and then to be shipped as market prices went up.

2861 - 2880 of 181172