Date   

Re: ORERs (40 YEar Old Cars)

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <thecitrusbelt@...> wrote :

I have a note (unfortunately without a reference) that says in 1974 a rule was enacted that prohibited cars in interchange with underframes over 40 years old if built before July 1, 1974.

 

Was there an earlier rule prohibiting cars (I assume based on the age of their underframes) over forty years old in interchange?

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

====================


No, not that I'm aware of. The Soo Line still had one of their 1920 built boxcars listed in the ORER in 1971; 51 years of age.


Dennis Storzek


Re: ORERs (40 YEar Old Cars)

thecitrusbelt@...
 

I have a note (unfortunately without a reference) that says in 1974 a rule was enacted that prohibited cars in interchange with underframes over 40 years old if built before July 1, 1974.

 

Was there an earlier rule prohibiting cars (I assume based on the age of their underframes) over forty years old in interchange?

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: ORERs

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:

>And in the case in point, these were USRA cars built 1919-1920, so as 1960 approached, they were beginning to reach the age (40 years) when they  would be prohibited in interchange service.  


I think I've pointed this out before on this list, but let me repeat.  The 40-Year Law was not enacted until 1974 and started at 50 years and ratcheted down one year each year until reaching 40 years in 1983.  So such age limits were far into the future as far as this august list is concerned.  Please commit this to memory. Thank you.  Back to your regularly scheduled programming....

Scott Chatfield


Re: ORERs

SUVCWORR@...
 

To add to what Tony said,  the PRR added new groups as soon as they knew they were coming.  In place of a specific number they entered "NEW" in that column.   If you check you will see numerous groups of cars showing 1, 2 or 3 remaining. The effort to be accurate was made.  Keep in mind that the PRR dated their submission 90 days before the issue date because of the enormous size of the fleet and the accounting necessary to provide accurate data.

Rich Orr



Re: ORERs

Tony Thompson
 

george eichelberger wrote:

 

My comments come directly from company files but the logic would seem to apply to any railroad. WHY would anyone spend the time and effort to “count down” car quantities as I describe?


    My friend Steve Peery, who was part of the submission of SP entries to the ORER for several years, told me that they did their best to be accurate about the number of cars in service in EVERY number group. Of course it couldn't be exactly accurate, even at the date of submission, but they certainly did, as you say, "spend the time and effort." The same effort went into accurate dimensional data, so far as possible. The ORER has the character of a tariff and it is "required" that data be accurate, obviously within reasonable effort.

Do you agree that the data for cars not yet delivered needed to be in the RER before they could be offered for interchange? Would that be an accurate number of cars in service for that date?


      Steve told me that they would submit the number group and earliest delivery group size as soon as they knew it. Sometimes they got caught by the timing, and cars would go into service before the corrected ORER issue would be distributed. But they tried to have an advance indication.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: SP&S 14411 Box Car Roof View

Douglas Harding
 

Tim is correct there is a photo of SP&S 14476 taken by Jim Sands that clearly shows the “yellow” reporting marks and car number on the side. The rest of the lettering is white. The end markings are also white.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: REA Express Reefer In Freight Train

Ted Schnepf
 

Hi Bob,

Being a right handed railroader for my working career, I over looked that point on the CNW. Camera is looking west, so probably a eastbound loaded train.

Ted 11:37 AM 4/7/2017, you wrote:


Ted,

Did you account for left-hand running on the CNW?

Bob Witt
Rails Unlimited
Ted Schnepf
railsunl@...
847-697-5353
126 Will Scarlet
Elgin, Ill. 60120
http://RailsUnlimited.ribbonrail.com/

Model Railroad Sales and Service with
a personal touch.
Books new and used. HO and O scales.
DCC supplies. O scale urethane cars.
Photos and darkroom services.
Checks, cash (0%) or credit (secure server at web site 5% added).


Re: ORERs

George Eichelberger
 

Mmmm…… Can you provide some specific examples, from company data, that says I am only describing a Southern Railway practice? I assume you can because of your “not shared by other roads” comment. (NO other roads?)

My comments come directly from company files but the logic would seem to apply to any railroad. WHY would anyone spend the time and effort to “count down” car quantities as I describe?

I hazard a guess that RER entires were seldom exact. If a car was wrecked or condemned after the next entry for the RER had been sent off (I can provide some examples), would that matter to anyone?

Do you agree that the data for cars not yet delivered needed to be in the RER before they could be offered for interchange? Would that be an accurate number of cars in service for that date?

Ike


Re: HO scale caboose steps

Ray Breyer
 

Alternatively, if you only need one or two out of four, why not cast them yourself? Looking at the one that's in my hand now, a platform step would be pretty simple to do using the old & trusty JB Weld cast technique.
 
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL



From: "Allan Smith smithal9@... [STMFC]"
To: "STMFC@..."
Sent: Saturday, April 8, 2017 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] HO scale caboose steps



I have one caboose step in the zamac metal from an Ambroid caboose. Comparing it to the caboose step on the Athearn Santa Fe Caboose, it is an almost perfect match. Why don't you find an old Athearn caboose and cut the steps off..

Al Smith
Sonora Ca


On Monday, April 3, 2017 5:20 PM, "Ray Breyer rtbsvrr69@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Why not scratch 'em? See the Fall 2011 issue of the NKPHTS Modeler's Notebook for a quick, easy & effective way to do so.

nkphts.org/modelersnotebook/2011/11-15-11mn.pdf

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL



From: "ed_mines@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, April 3, 2017 3:15 PM
Subject: [STMFC] HO scale caboose steps

!
Does anyone offer these besides Silver Streak and Selley?
Anyone who has half built Ambroid/Q'craft cabooses that you want to get rid of please contact me off list.
Ed Mines








Re: SP&S 14411 Box Car Roof View

Tim O'Connor
 

Ed

There is a Jim Sands photo that clearly shows it's not an optical illusion
and Scotchlite letters makes sense. And another photo about 10 years after
they were built (1957 at GN St Cloud) shows the reporting mark repainted in
bright white.

Tim O'


Hi Ed,

I seem to recall that the reporting marks on that series of SP&S boxcars were applied in Scotchlite reflective material, which is why they accumulated dirt and dust and/or lost their white look more quickly than the painted lettering.

Todd Sullivan


http://www.ebay.com/itm/352014499614


Re: HO scale caboose steps

Allan Smith
 

I have one caboose step in the zamac metal from an Ambroid caboose. Comparing it to the caboose step on the Athearn Santa Fe Caboose, it is an almost perfect match. Why don't you find an old Athearn caboose and cut the steps off..

Al Smith
Sonora Ca


On Monday, April 3, 2017 5:20 PM, "Ray Breyer rtbsvrr69@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Why not scratch 'em? See the Fall 2011 issue of the NKPHTS Modeler's Notebook for a quick, easy & effective way to do so.

nkphts.org/modelersnotebook/2011/11-15-11mn.pdf

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL



From: "ed_mines@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, April 3, 2017 3:15 PM
Subject: [STMFC] HO scale caboose steps

!
Does anyone offer these besides Silver Streak and Selley?
Anyone who has half built Ambroid/Q'craft cabooses that you want to get rid of please contact me off list.
Ed Mines




Re: SP&S 14411 Box Car Roof View

Tony Thompson
 

Schuyler Larrabee] wrote:

I also noted that there is, as far as I can see, ONE car with a peeling
roof, and not terribly badly at that. I think modelers get carried away
with that.

   Full agreement. I have only done a few freight cars that way, and none of them severely peeled.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: ORERs - those missing "More recent results."

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Declining population of DL&W 11300 - 11599 series box cars



Apr-50

294



Oct-51

292



Jan-52

292



Jan-53

199



Jan-55

198



Apr-57

189



Jan-59

98



Jul-59

23



Oct-59

16



Oct-60

6



Jan-61

3







From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2017 1:33 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: ORERs





OK, sure, but you’ve noted a Southern practice not shared by other roads. And in the case in point, these were USRA cars built 1919-1920, so as 1960 approached, they were beginning to reach the age (40 years) when they would be prohibited in interchange service. I was curious about whether these would be common in the era I am attempting to constrain my modeling to (without a whole lot of notable success, though it does affect my model and kit buying), circa 1950 and a little later. What I was able to find is that they lasted through most of the decade in respectable numbers and that they were converted to AB brakes. So I am good to go with more than one ancient version.

More recent results:

Schuyler

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2017 9:41 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: ORERs

Re car quantities in RER

Can I suggest using RERs to determine the quantity of any railroad equipment at a particular time is subject to a lot of error?

If a series of cars is due to be taken off the roster due to age or rebuilding, there is no need for a railroad to “count down” the number of cars in a series with any accuracy. For example, if car in a series was scrapped, it could never appear in interchange. No clerk would look in an RER and care there were XX number of cars still in service, they would only be looking for the data on the specific car number they were concerned about. All they would be looking for is the car series that single car comes from to determine the Capy, etc. they needed to know.

The Southern’s practice seemed to be to modify car quantities for cars in service but stop making RER changes if they decided to take that series out of service. Rather than try to keep changing continually declining numbers, they would wait until none were left and delete the entire series.

The reverse was also true, cars could be in the RER that were not yet on the roster. They would never be seen in interchange so there would be no problem. Because cars had to be in the RER before they could be interchanged, the entry needed to be in place before they were delivered or in service.

In at least one Southern Rwy case, a series of cars was in the RER that never existed. The plan was for a group of 40 foot box cars to be given 70-ton trucks and renumbered. That group of cars existed twice in the RER, once under their original number series and also with their new 70-ton capacity numbers. For whatever reason, the 70-ton trucks were not purchased. Some repainted/renumbered cars had to be changed back to their 50-ton road numbers.

RERs are a good, widely available resource but we need to be careful using them to answer questions they were never intended to deal with.

Ike

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: ORERs

Schuyler Larrabee
 

OK, sure, but you’ve noted a Southern practice not shared by other roads. And in the case in point, these were USRA cars built 1919-1920, so as 1960 approached, they were beginning to reach the age (40 years) when they would be prohibited in interchange service. I was curious about whether these would be common in the era I am attempting to constrain my modeling to (without a whole lot of notable success, though it does affect my model and kit buying), circa 1950 and a little later. What I was able to find is that they lasted through most of the decade in respectable numbers and that they were converted to AB brakes. So I am good to go with more than one ancient version.



More recent results:





Schuyler



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2017 9:41 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: ORERs





Re car quantities in RER

Can I suggest using RERs to determine the quantity of any railroad equipment at a particular time is subject to a lot of error?

If a series of cars is due to be taken off the roster due to age or rebuilding, there is no need for a railroad to “count down” the number of cars in a series with any accuracy. For example, if car in a series was scrapped, it could never appear in interchange. No clerk would look in an RER and care there were XX number of cars still in service, they would only be looking for the data on the specific car number they were concerned about. All they would be looking for is the car series that single car comes from to determine the Capy, etc. they needed to know.

The Southern’s practice seemed to be to modify car quantities for cars in service but stop making RER changes if they decided to take that series out of service. Rather than try to keep changing continually declining numbers, they would wait until none were left and delete the entire series.

The reverse was also true, cars could be in the RER that were not yet on the roster. They would never be seen in interchange so there would be no problem. Because cars had to be in the RER before they could be interchanged, the entry needed to be in place before they were delivered or in service.

In at least one Southern Rwy case, a series of cars was in the RER that never existed. The plan was for a group of 40 foot box cars to be given 70-ton trucks and renumbered. That group of cars existed twice in the RER, once under their original number series and also with their new 70-ton capacity numbers. For whatever reason, the 70-ton trucks were not purchased. Some repainted/renumbered cars had to be changed back to their 50-ton road numbers.

RERs are a good, widely available resource but we need to be careful using them to answer questions they were never intended to deal with.

Ike





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: ORERs

John Barry
 

Ike,

Case in point, the ATSF Bx-41 & 42. Listed in the Jan 45 ORER as series X to Y, 0 cars, so I thought I wouldn't need any for my Dec 44 layout.  Turns out when you look at the live lists, several dozen were actually converted by that date and they are valid for my time frame.  Gross numbers seem relatively close though if you are looking for relative fleet sizes.  With the data for the planned conversions listed, they were immediately available for interchange service.
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "george eichelberger geichelberger@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, April 8, 2017 9:41 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: ORERs

 
Re car quantities in RER

Can I suggest using RERs to determine the quantity of any railroad equipment at a particular time is subject to a lot of error?

If a series of cars is due to be taken off the roster due to age or rebuilding, there is no need for a railroad to “count down” the number of cars in a series with any accuracy. For example, if car in a series was scrapped, it could never appear in interchange. No clerk would look in an RER and care there were XX number of cars still in service, they would only be looking for the data on the specific car number they were concerned about. All they would be looking for is the car series that single car comes from to determine the Capy, etc. they needed to know.

The Southern’s practice seemed to be to modify car quantities for cars in service but stop making RER changes if they decided to take that series out of service. Rather than try to keep changing continually declining numbers, they would wait until none were left and delete the entire series.

The reverse was also true, cars could be in the RER that were not yet on the roster. They would never be seen in interchange so there would be no problem. Because cars had to be in the RER before they could be interchanged, the entry needed to be in place before they were delivered or in service.

In at least one Southern Rwy case, a series of cars was in the RER that never existed. The plan was for a group of 40 foot box cars to be given 70-ton trucks and renumbered. That group of cars existed twice in the RER, once under their original number series and also with their new 70-ton capacity numbers. For whatever reason, the 70-ton trucks were not purchased. Some repainted/renumbered cars had to be changed back to their 50-ton road numbers.

RERs are a good, widely available resource but we need to be careful using them to answer questions they were never intended to deal with.

Ike




Re: ORERs

George Eichelberger
 

Re car quantities in RER

Can I suggest using RERs to determine the quantity of any railroad equipment at a particular time is subject to a lot of error?

If a series of cars is due to be taken off the roster due to age or rebuilding, there is no need for a railroad to “count down” the number of cars in a series with any accuracy. For example, if car in a series was scrapped, it could never appear in interchange. No clerk would look in an RER and care there were XX number of cars still in service, they would only be looking for the data on the specific car number they were concerned about. All they would be looking for is the car series that single car comes from to determine the Capy, etc. they needed to know.

The Southern’s practice seemed to be to modify car quantities for cars in service but stop making RER changes if they decided to take that series out of service. Rather than try to keep changing continually declining numbers, they would wait until none were left and delete the entire series.

The reverse was also true, cars could be in the RER that were not yet on the roster. They would never be seen in interchange so there would be no problem. Because cars had to be in the RER before they could be interchanged, the entry needed to be in place before they were delivered or in service.

In at least one Southern Rwy case, a series of cars was in the RER that never existed. The plan was for a group of 40 foot box cars to be given 70-ton trucks and renumbered. That group of cars existed twice in the RER, once under their original number series and also with their new 70-ton capacity numbers. For whatever reason, the 70-ton trucks were not purchased. Some repainted/renumbered cars had to be changed back to their 50-ton road numbers.

RERs are a good, widely available resource but we need to be careful using them to answer questions they were never intended to deal with.

Ike


Re: SP&S 14411 Box Car Roof View

Robert Heninger
 

The GN used Scotchlite for it's reporting marks too, and the GN marks have this off-white color in photographs as well. They weather much differently than the road name and small data. Look closely at the reporting marks and the delineators along the side sill. They are the same color. By the way, this series of SP&S boxcars was built by the GN at its St. Cloud shops, in 1957, IIRC.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND


Re: SP&S 14411 Box Car Roof View

rwitt_2000
 

Ed and Todd,

That's what it looks like to my eyes. The seller does "color correct" some of his listings, but that wouldn't change the color of just one group of stencils. They all should appear the same.

Bob Witt


Re: SP&S 14411 Box Car Roof View

Todd Sullivan
 

Hi Ed,

I seem to recall that the reporting marks on that series of SP&S boxcars were applied in Scotchlite reflective material, which is why they accumulated dirt and dust and/or lost their white look more quickly than the painted lettering.

Todd Sullivan


Re: SP&S 14411 Box Car Roof View

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I noticed that and wondered why . . .



I also noted that there is, as far as I can see, ONE car with a peeling
roof, and not terribly badly at that. I think modelers get carried away
with that.



Schuyler



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, April 07, 2017 10:11 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] SP&S 14411 Box Car Roof View







On Apr 7, 2017, at 7:32 PM, rwitt_2000@... [STMFC]
<STMFC@...> wrote:





A yard scene illustrating many different finishing and weathering of box car
roofs.



Bob,

The SP&S 14411 car appears to have yellow reporting marks & car number while
other stencils are white. Is this true, or are my eyes playing tricks?




<http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Slide-Freight-SP-S-Spokane-Portland-Seattl
e-Box-Car-14411-in-1960-/352014499614?hash=item51f5b2ff1e:g:4sYAAOSwB-1Y1w~V
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Slide-Freight-SP-S-Spokane-Portland-Seattle
-Box-Car-14411-in-1960-/352014499614?hash=item51f5b2ff1e:g:4sYAAOSwB-1Y1w~V

or

<http://tinyurl.com/m54tkeh> http://tinyurl.com/m54tkeh

Regards,

Ed Hawkins