Date   

Re: a stronger solution

Jerry Michels
 

Jim, I always thought it was acetic acid too.  All of the decal solvents smell like vinegar to me.  When I was in graduate school, I had access to high quality acetic acid, mixed it about 50/50 with distilled water and tested it.  Melted the decals, tried 10/90 and it worked kind of OK, but was really not the correct solution (so to speak).


Re: Bx-12 grab iron question

Steve SANDIFER
 

Photo in the society book shows 2 straights on the right side of the end and one straight mounted on a drop bracker on the left side. 7 rung ladder on the left side.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 10:26 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Bx-12 grab iron question

 

 

I am building a BX-12 raised roof. Which grab irons would be used on the sides and ends for a car in 1950? Some model cars I have seen have dropped and others straight.

Thank you
Scott McDonald


Bx-12 grab iron question

Scott
 

I am building a BX-12 raised roof. Which grab irons would be used on the sides and ends for a car in 1950? Some model cars I have seen have dropped and others straight.

Thank you
Scott McDonald


Re: a sad modeling milestone

Tim O'Connor
 


There are probably a number of fluids that work with (1) some decals and
(2) some paint finishes. Since there are so many different kinds of decals
and paints now, there's probably not a solution that applies in every case.

For example I am decaling a car now that I painted with Accupaint and I'm
using Microscale decals, and when I used a combination of MicroSet, MicroSol
and Solvaset, I got some 'water spots' on the paint finish - I'm guessing it
went after the paint. For the other side of the car I didn't use any of the
MicroSet, and ... no spots!

Tim O'Connor


somebody gave me three bottles of Testors Decal Setting solution and I did use it once
and it seemed to work fine.
Rick Jesionowski


Re: "DF" Labeled Boxcars

Tim O'Connor
 


 >> I know many on this list know what "DF" means. - Bob

Damage Free - a system of horizontal "belt rails" built into the walls of the car which held
transverse locking bars to restrain the load. Others include DFB (Damage Free - Bulkheads),
Preco Load Dividers (LD), Transco Stage Loading (SL) which later became "Spartan Loader" [with
variants SEL, STB]. These were all 1950's innovations to reduce the need for expensive dunnage
and to reduce damage claims... along with "long travel" cushioned underframes such as the SP's
HydraCushion system.

Tim O'


Re: a stronger solution

Scott
 

I had pretty good luck with Tamiya Mark Fit. Its melted pretty much everything so fat.

Scott McDonald


Re: "DF" Labeled Boxcars

MDelvec952
 



The DF was "Damage Free," a symbol of the Evans Products Company "DF" series of interior equipment on railroad-owned boxcars. This was usually a shelf-like arrangement for securing boxes or large quantities of stuff, often auto parts.

Much is written about them in the 1940s and '50s and google can take you there                      ....Mike Del Vecchio



-----Original Message-----
From: Hubert Mask maskisland@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Fri, Feb 23, 2018 9:52 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] "DF" Labeled Boxcars

 
 Damage free is what I was aware of    Never heard of sin age free.  However.  

Hubert Mask 


On Feb 23, 2018, at 9:20 PM, thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 
I've seen two opinions as to what "DF" stands for. One stated "Damage Free" as in a car with a cushion underframe. The other stated "Dunnage Free", that is, a car that has load dividers and other interior hardware that makes dunnage unnecessary.
 
I know many on this list know what "DF" means. I'm just not one of them so please enlighten me.
 
Thanks.
 
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: "DF" Labeled Boxcars

hubert mask
 

 Damage free is what I was aware of    Never heard of sin age free.  However.  

Hubert Mask 


On Feb 23, 2018, at 9:20 PM, thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

I've seen two opinions as to what "DF" stands for. One stated "Damage Free" as in a car with a cushion underframe. The other stated "Dunnage Free", that is, a car that has load dividers and other interior hardware that makes dunnage unnecessary.

 

I know many on this list know what "DF" means. I'm just not one of them so please enlighten me.

 

Thanks.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


"DF" Labeled Boxcars

thecitrusbelt@...
 

I've seen two opinions as to what "DF" stands for. One stated "Damage Free" as in a car with a cushion underframe. The other stated "Dunnage Free", that is, a car that has load dividers and other interior hardware that makes dunnage unnecessary.

 

I know many on this list know what "DF" means. I'm just not one of them so please enlighten me.

 

Thanks.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Lettering requirements

Tony Thompson
 

     A longtime inhabitant of this list reminded me that once upon a time, I supplied on my blog, an extremely brief commentary on typography as it might relate to model railroading. That's quite true. If you're interested, that blog post is at this link:


Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Lettering requirements

Tony Thompson
 

Charlie Vlk wrote:

What I am looking for is the ARA Standard Railroad Roman type lettering that apparently the CB&Q used as the basis for their hand lettered and stenciled lettering on freight cars as no reference to a CB&Q drawing has turned up so far.

       Way back when, the Master Car Builders designed a sample typeface of "standard Roman letters" which was reproduced for years thereafter in sample form in Cycs and in the ARA and AAR Manuals of the day. But this was never required (indeed, quite a few railroads used sans-serif letters instead of Roman). There was never any such thing in railroad usage as "Railroad Roman," by that name, only in the imagination of sellers of decals. I have by no means examined the lettering of every railroad, but have scrutinized a fair number, and so far have never yet found a single case where the MCB lettering was used without revision. I suppose any roomful of draftsmen could not resist the opportunity to tinker .
        Should it turn out that CB&Q did use the MCB lettering characters, I would be surprised, and as I said, it would the first one I know of.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Lettering requirements

Earl Tuson
 

Being a resin builder, getting decals right is an issue.
The MCB/ARA/AAR Standards and Recommended Practices by themselves do little to assist with accurate freight car
lettering; interchange <requirements> are something different. However, I am finding they are crucial to gaining a better
understanding of the prototype's (the B&M's, in my study,) changes over time. Photos are the still the guide we should
most rely on.

Earl Tuson


Re: Lettering requirements

John Hagen <sprinthag@...>
 

Charlie,

Good luck on that one. So far I have two different commercial RR Roman fonts plus two more fonts that I drew up in order to be able match various different prototype fonts.

So now I can just type in whichever font I need and I still often end up modifying certain letters to match the prototype.

If you have prototype photos showing the font you want, I’ll develop a font to match can be installed on your computer.

John Hagen

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 5:44 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Lettering requirements

 

 

Eric-

I am looking for the actual set of lettering alphabet / punctuation / numbers not placement on cars.  Normally they are dimensioned differently for small to large lettering.

I’ve got sets for UP, ATSF, SP and other roads and a long time ago using Budd drawings made up the “Zephyr Font” that was the basis for Micro-Scale and other renditions of that style lettering.  

What I am looking for is the ARA Standard Railroad Roman type lettering that apparently the CB&Q used as the basis for their hand lettered and stenciled lettering on freight cars as no reference to a CB&Q drawing has turned up so far.

Charlie Vlk

 

 

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 8:41 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Lettering requirements

 






Speaking of lettering, does anyone have ARA standard lettering drawings?   

Some CB&Q L&P drawings reference them instead of CB&Q alpha and numeric drawings.

Thanks

Charlie Vlk

 


Re: Lettering requirements

Charlie Vlk
 

Eric-

I am looking for the actual set of lettering alphabet / punctuation / numbers not placement on cars.  Normally they are dimensioned differently for small to large lettering.

I’ve got sets for UP, ATSF, SP and other roads and a long time ago using Budd drawings made up the “Zephyr Font” that was the basis for Micro-Scale and other renditions of that style lettering.  

What I am looking for is the ARA Standard Railroad Roman type lettering that apparently the CB&Q used as the basis for their hand lettered and stenciled lettering on freight cars as no reference to a CB&Q drawing has turned up so far.

Charlie Vlk

 

 

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 8:41 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Lettering requirements

 





Speaking of lettering, does anyone have ARA standard lettering drawings?   

Some CB&Q L&P drawings reference them instead of CB&Q alpha and numeric drawings.

Thanks

Charlie Vlk

 


Re: Pantone Numbers for Railroad Paints

Charlie Vlk
 

Colors are commonly specified by CMYK (percentages 0 to 100 of Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and Black) or RGB ( 0 to 255 value of Red, Green, Blue with the intensity varying from none (0) to full (255).
All colors can be expressed using either system.   There are other ways of defining colors but they are beyond common Model Railroad use.   I think some people call a CMYK or RGB specified color “Pantone” but while Pantone colors can be defined in CMYK or RGB they are specific value colors that Pantone publishes.

 

….Pantone is a system of standard colors which are primarily used in the printing industry for inks.  They issue families of color books for matching and specifying graphic colors. 

It is not the only such system….in fact, the Far East and Europe each have proprietary systems which have different color selections.

In my experience all of them are seriously deficient for specifying railroad colors.  The most reliable way to convey color to a factory is to provide painted color card samples or models that have the desired color.

 

One really can’t use historical actual railroad color drift cards because color has scale and lighting conditions have a tremendous impact on the appearance of color.  For example, a drift card for DuPont “Imitation Aluminum”, a color common to the CB&Q, CRI&P, B&M, MEC, and other railroads, is on the prototype an off-white color with no hint of a metallic value.  In the barrel it is a gray, almost Cadet Gray, and the DuPont drift card is also very dark.  Models have been painted matching the “official” DuPont color and they look horrible in full sunlight much less on the model railroad in a relatively poorly lit basement.

 

Charlie Vlk

 

 

.



Re: a stronger solution

John Sykes III
 

Go to a high end camera store (one that sells darkroom supplies) and they will have it.  You can also probably buy it on line from B&H Photo in NY.  That is exactly what I use.  Only need very little.  A cap full in a tray of deionized water will handle a whole day's of enlarging work.

Colonial Camera in Orlando is probably a good choice.  You can buy the photography supplies on one side of the store and Model Railroad supplies on the other side.

-- John 


Re: NS 28XXX Boxcar Questions

Tim O'Connor
 


The rebuilds had Nailable Steel Floors - although I don't know whether that was a change.

Also, all of my photos (I have 6 for these cars) appear to show Morton running boards - no good
views of the hand brake step however.

The Viking roofs were not immediately replaced, but a later photo (1970) shows a replacement
diagonal panel roof.

Tim O'Connor


In 1958, the Norfolk Southern rebuilt 100 of its 1942 Magor-built 25500-25752 series boxcars (XM3). These became series 28000-28236, and reclassed them as XM6. The rebuilt cars jumped from 80000 to 100000 pounds capacity. Other than heavier trucks, what were the other changes? The original cars had wood running boards, and I'm wondering if the rebuilt cars received steel running boards and brake steps. Although I have several photos of the XM6 class, I have none that clearly show the roofs or ends.

Yours Aye,
Garth Groff


NS 28XXX Boxcar Questions

Garth Groff or Sally Sanford <sarahsan@...>
 

Friends,

In 1958, the Norfolk Southern rebuilt 100 of its 1942 Magor-built 25500-25752 series boxcars (XM3). These became series 28000-28236, and reclassed them as XM6. The rebuilt cars jumped from 80000 to 100000 pounds capacity. Other than heavier trucks, what were the other changes? The original cars had wood running boards, and I'm wondering if the rebuilt cars received steel running boards and brake steps. Although I have several photos of the XM6 class, I have none that clearly show the roofs or ends.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿


Detailed coupler boxes from Smoky Mtn Model Works (reminder)

Jim King
 

SMMW’s recently-released coupler boxes have been well-received so I thought a quick reminder is appropriate to reach those who may not know about ‘em.  Visit my web page for more info, then contact me off-list to place an order.  All coupler styles and colors are in-stock.  I do not have a “shopping cart” option … just send a short email with the part numbers you want, I’ll reply with an invoice and you send payment.  Pretty simple.

 

http://www.smokymountainmodelworks.com/HO_draft_gear+cplrs.html

 

Jim King

www.smokymountainmodelworks.com

 


Re: Lettering requirements

Steve SANDIFER
 

I’d really like a copy of that material. Being a resin builder, getting decals right is an issue.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 7:30 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Lettering requirements

 

 

Stephen Sandifer asked:

> When did the lettering requirements on the sides of cars change? In the
> 1880s the primary info seemed to be the ID and car #. Later other dimensions
> and weight were added and at different locations or in different
> configurations. I assume this was a federal requirement. Enlighten me
> please.

The Master Car Builder's Association, a voluntary trade group, issued Recommended Practices and Standards for various
aspects of lettering, marking, and stenciling beginning as early as 1893. Early on, new practices were added and
revisions made in a near continuous fashion: 1896, 1901, 1902, 1906, 1908, 1909, 1911, 1913... but more significant
changes were introduced in 1920 and 1926.

I have been working up a detailed account of these changes, which I anticipate adding as an appendix to complement a
similarly detailed account of B&M lettering practices during the 1900-1930 period.

Earl Tuson

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