Date   

Re: Flat Car Load Pictures of International Bulldozers

Tony Thompson
 

Garth Groff wrote:

 
I don't have any sources for International crawlers, but I have the book CATERPILLAR PHOTO GALLERY edited by P.A. Letourneau (Iconographics, 1997). It includes many photos of crawlers used in farming. In fact, Holt tractors, Caterpillar's original manufacturer, were developed for farming in California's central valley.

     Garth, the Holt machines were certainly first developed to serve as "link-belt tractors" for harvesters, but were extensively used from the beginning for western logging and road building.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Flat Car Load Pictures of International Bulldozers

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Bill,

I don't have any sources for International crawlers, but I have the book CATERPILLAR PHOTO GALLERY edited by P.A. Letourneau (Iconographics, 1997). It includes many photos of crawlers used in farming. In fact, Holt tractors, Caterpillar's original manufacturer, were developed for farming in California's central valley.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 3/30/17 1:04 PM, fgexbill@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Doug, were these strictly for construction or did some farmers use these? Is thier an approximate model year for either crawler. Gorgeous restoration.


Bill Welch


Re: Using "The Tool" (truck ream)?

Jeff Shultz <jeff@...>
 



On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 8:46 AM, Spen Kellogg spninetynine@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

On 3/29/2017 8:23 PM, 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC] wrote:
 


Some have wondered what the benefit of replacing wheelsets for a better fit and rolling characteristics. The real benefit is that the pulling power of your locomotives will appear to be very much enhanced, because you can pull a longer train of cars with properly adjusted trucks.

The disadvantage is that you'll soon find out which of your sidings aren't level.

Spen Kellogg

I saw a recent post from a member of a historical society/museum  that indicated this happens in the prototype world as well - when they got their first car, a passenger car, equipped with roller bearings they learned a lot of their apparently level trackage wasn't. 

--
Jeff Shultz
Error: Pithy Saying Generator not installed


Flat Car Load Pictures of International Bulldozers (Farm Use)

Andy Carlson
 

Unlike the spark-ignition IH crawler tractor referenced before, a small orchard-fendered diesel Cat crawler tractor was used for decades by a near-by orange grove here in Ojai. I first saw this tractor in operation pulling an orchard sprayer in the late 1950s. Later it sat unused until the orchard was sold 10 years ago which at that time it disappeared. I tried to get a local car collector interested in acquiring it before it disappeared.

Unlike stone fruit trees, citrus trees suffer if the foliage doesn't extend to nearly ground level. Citrus bark is sensitive to sun damage if left exposed. This is why early plantings have white painted trunks, as do severely pruned rejuvenated adult trees. The fenders minimized damage to the low foliage. A few orchard-fendered tractors remain in my area today, and to my memory, none of them crawlers.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA



From: "thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 10:16 AM
Subject: [STMFC] RE: Flat Car Load Pictures of International Bulldozers (Farm Use)

 
I have seen photos of small bulldozer-like tractors being used in the citrus groves of Southern California. More common, however, were conventional tractors with wheel shields to protect the branches of the trees.

Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA



Re: Flat Car Load Pictures of International Bulldozers (Farm Use)

thecitrusbelt@...
 


Re: Flat Car Load Pictures of International Bulldozers

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <fgexbill@...> wrote :

Doug, were these strictly for construction or did some farmers use these? Is thier an approximate model year for either crawler. Gorgeous restoration.

Bill Welch
=================

Both Holt, which became Caterpillar, and McCormick Deering, Which became IH, initially sold these to farmers, for field work. The idea was the tracks would let them get out in the field earlier, allowing one man to work more land. If you'll remember the classic film version of Grapes of Wrath, the Joad's house in Oklahoma was demolished by a field hand plowing with a crawler tractor, although I don't remember what brand.

By WWII construction outfits realized the utility of these machines equipped with a push blade (the classic bulldozer.) There are lots of photos of bulldozers building the Alcan Hwy.

The double jointed excavator bucket seems to be a post war development, but they were in use by the fifties.

The photo of the TD-18 seems to match the machines in the loading photos, which date to 1947.

The color photo of the TD-4 has newer styling, but likely dates to the mid fifties.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Flat Car Load Pictures of International Bulldozers (Farm Use)

thecitrusbelt@...
 

I have seen photos of small bulldozer-like tractors being used in the citrus groves of Southern California. More common, however, were conventional tractors with wheel shields to protect the branches of the trees.


Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Flat Car Load Pictures of International Bulldozers

Bill Welch
 

Doug, were these strictly for construction or did some farmers use these? Is thier an approximate model year for either crawler. Gorgeous restoration.

Bill Welch


Re: Flat Car Load Pictures of International Bulldozers

Douglas Harding
 

Here’s a color photo of an early IH T-4 crawler, restored.  https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/70/26/a4/7026a4fa8fc8c47133b1e3cfa81d842d.jpg

Here’s what may be a photo of a TD-18, which was the model of crawler being loaded on flatcars in a previous post http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/tractors/images/b/bf/International_TD18_Crawler_tractor_at_Newark_VTH_08_-_IMG_3441.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090425095757

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 9:54 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Flat Car Load Pictures of International Bulldozers

 

 

 



---In STMFC@..., <shile@...> wrote :

IH had two plants in Chicago on either side of Western Avenue at 31 St and Blue Island Avenues.  They were older plants from the early days of International Harvester and known as the McCormick Works and Tractor Works
==================

Thanks Steve, I subsequently read the article and see they specify the load originated at 31st. & Western; was accepted by Santa Fe subsidiary Illinois Northern, then interchanged to the Q.

We also ought to mention, since this is a modeling forum, the the IH tractors were painted red.

Dennis Storzek


Re: USRA Composite Gons Cut Levers

Nelson Moyer
 

Be sure to download the Carmer drawings from the YMW site. They will be helpful during the bending process. There is also a prototype usage sheet to download that gives the various combinations of operating handles and lift levers. There are no instructions on bending or attaching. I used nbw castings by drilling a hole at the mounting location and inserting the nbw stud through the lever and into the hole.

Nelson Moyer

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 9:49 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] USRA Composite Gons Cut Levers



There are an amazing number of operating handles and lifting levers associated with Carmer hardware installations. I'm not near my data, but I think there were 21 operating handles and 22 lifting levers. From PRR applications I was able to determine the handle/lever combination that was used by the USRA composite gondolas, which were PRR class G24. IIRC, these cars used a combination that was not the same as the other USRA cars.

I would recommend the HO scale Yarmouth Model Works etched metal sets as a robust detail part for your work. I have soldered these parts to an 0.020-inch brass or phosphor bronze wire to install on an end sill. There are some bends to make so the parts could operate without hitting an end sill grab or the brake hardware. I can't recall prototype photo locations at the moment.

I hope this helps.



Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX




On March 29, 2017 at 6:04 PM "chris_hillman@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:



I'm building some Intermountain USRA Composite Drop Bottom Gons. Nice kits, but there are no uncoupling cut levers in the kit or reference to them. I've searched for photos of the prototypes but found none showing them.

Anybody know about them?



Thanks, Paul Hillman


Re: Using "The Tool" (truck ream)?

Spen Kellogg <spninetynine@...>
 

On 3/29/2017 8:23 PM, 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC] wrote:
 


Some have wondered what the benefit of replacing wheelsets for a better fit and rolling characteristics. The real benefit is that the pulling power of your locomotives will appear to be very much enhanced, because you can pull a longer train of cars with properly adjusted trucks.

The disadvantage is that you'll soon find out which of your sidings aren't level.

Spen Kellogg


Re: USRA Composite Gons Cut Levers

naptownprr
 

Eric,

Thanks for posting the pictures from the RPM East meeting.  There were some fine models exhibited.

Jim Hunter


From: STMFC@... on behalf of Eric Hansmann eric@... [STMFC]
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 10:49 AM
To: STMFC@....
Subject: Re: [STMFC] USRA Composite Gons Cut Levers
 
 

There are an amazing number of operating handles and lifting levers associated with Carmer hardware installations. I'm not near my data, but I think there were 21 operating handles and 22 lifting levers. From PRR applications I was able to determine the handle/lever combination that was used by the USRA composite gondolas, which were PRR class G24. IIRC, these cars used a combination that was not the same as the other USRA cars.

I would recommend the HO scale Yarmouth Model Works etched metal sets as a robust detail part for your work. I have soldered these parts to an 0.020-inch brass or phosphor bronze wire to install on an end sill. There are some bends to make so the parts could operate without hitting an end sill grab or the brake hardware. I can't recall prototype photo locations at the moment.

I hope this helps.


Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX



On March 29, 2017 at 6:04 PM "ch! ris_hillman@... [STMFC]" wrote:



I'm building some Intermountain USRA Composite Drop Bottom Gons. Nice kits, but there are no uncoupling cut levers in the kit or reference to them. I've searched for photos of the prototypes but found none showing them.

Anybody know about them?


Thanks, Paul Hillman

 




Re: Flat Car Load Pictures of International Bulldozers

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <jimbetz@...> wrote :


It was also interesting to me to see so many really basic spelling
errors. Check the use of "clew" in the link. Notice how all thru the
paper "freight" is spelled "frate". Ya gotta laugh at that stuff ...
- Jim B.
==================

I noticed that too, but suspect they were in the midst of one of the simplified spelling fads that went around periodically, back when people actually cared about such things.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Flat Car Load Pictures of International Bulldozers

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <shile@...> wrote :

IH had two plants in Chicago on either side of Western Avenue at 31 St and Blue Island Avenues.  They were older plants from the early days of International Harvester and known as the McCormick Works and Tractor Works
==================

Thanks Steve, I subsequently read the article and see they specify the load originated at 31st. & Western; was accepted by Santa Fe subsidiary Illinois Northern, then interchanged to the Q.

We also ought to mention, since this is a modeling forum, the the IH tractors were painted red.

Dennis Storzek


Re: USRA Composite Gons Cut Levers

Eric Hansmann
 

There are an amazing number of operating handles and lifting levers associated with Carmer hardware installations. I'm not near my data, but I think there were 21 operating handles and 22 lifting levers. From PRR applications I was able to determine the handle/lever combination that was used by the USRA composite gondolas, which were PRR class G24. IIRC, these cars used a combination that was not the same as the other USRA cars.

I would recommend the HO scale Yarmouth Model Works etched metal sets as a robust detail part for your work. I have soldered these parts to an 0.020-inch brass or phosphor bronze wire to install on an end sill. There are some bends to make so the parts could operate without hitting an end sill grab or the brake hardware. I can't recall prototype photo locations at the moment.

I hope this helps.


Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX



On March 29, 2017 at 6:04 PM "chris_hillman@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:



I'm building some Intermountain USRA Composite Drop Bottom Gons. Nice kits, but there are no uncoupling cut levers in the kit or reference to them. I've searched for photos of the prototypes but found none showing them.

Anybody know about them?


Thanks, Paul Hillman

 




Re: Flat Car Load Pictures of International Bulldozers

Jim Betz
 

Dennis Storzek,

Thanks for that post with the link!

All,

If you didn't take the time to scan and read some of that GREAT Chicago
Tribune you missed some "good stuff". A very interesting "slice of history"
in that day's paper from 1947.
And there are other pages that covered the wreck later on in the same
paper including pictures and text about the ongoing investigation of the
cause of the wreck.
I found even the cartoons and ads interesting ... for instance check out
the page(s) covering "what's playing at the movies" that week. And the
classifieds. And ... well you get my drift.

http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1947/04/05/page/1/article/photos-bare-clew-to-cause-of-zephyr-wreck


It was also interesting to me to see so many really basic spelling
errors. Check the use of "clew" in the link. Notice how all thru the
paper "freight" is spelled "frate". Ya gotta laugh at that stuff ...
- Jim B.

________________________________________________________________________
2d. Re: Flat Car Load Pictures of International Bulldozers
Posted by: destorzek@... soolinehistory
Date: Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:24 am ((PDT))

Oh, wow, did that picture strike a chord: http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Content.aspx?dsNav=Ny:True,Ro:200,N:4294963828-4294955414&dsNavOnly=N:4294963828-4294955414&dsRecordDetails=R:IM69184 http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Content.aspx?dsNav=Ny:True,Ro:200,N:4294963828-4294955414&dsNavOnly=N:4294963828-4294955414&dsRecordDetails=R:IM69184






The year of the photo is 1947. While the location is given as Chicago, I believe the IH plant was in west suburban Broadview, switched by the CB&Q.




On April 3, 1947, while traveling through Downers Grove, IL, maybe ten miles west of Broadview, one of those crawler tractors fell off the side of a flatcar, right in front of the Twin Zephyr, which derailed at track speed and tore the front wall off the brick Downers Grove depot. Luckily, the station agent had just stepped across the street for a cup of coffee when the derailed train demolished his operator's bay. Subsequent investigation showed that some of the blocking was never nailed to the deck, allowing the crawler to shift and slide off the side of the car. For all we know, we are looking at the load in question.




Here is a link to a newspaper article from the time:




http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1947/04/05/page/1/article/photos-bare-clew-to-cause-of-zephyr-wreck http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1947/04/05/page/1/article/photos-bare-clew-to-cause-of-zephyr-wreck






Overall history of the wreck:




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downers_Grove_train_wreck https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downers_Grove_train_wreck






Dennis Storzek


Re: CGW PS-0 car kit

brianleppert@att.net
 

The trucks you want for this car are Tahoe Model Works' TMW-108/208, Coil-Elliptic 50-ton Trucks.  See
resincarworks.com/tahoe.htm

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV


Re: CGW PS-0 car kit

Clark Propst
 

Please contact me off list and I’ll provide the needed data.
 
 
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: Flat Car Load Pictures of International Bulldozers

Steve and Barb Hile
 

IH had two plants in Chicago on either side of Western Avenue at 31 St and Blue Island Avenues.  They were older plants from the early days of International Harvester and known as the McCormick Works and Tractor Works.  See

http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Content.aspx?dsNav=N:4294963828-4294955414&dsRecordDetails=R:IM27931

for a little bit of Tractor Works.  An old aerial view is available at

http://www.idaillinois.org/cdm/ref/collection/lakecou02z/id/1399

shows both plants.  They were both closed by the time I started with IH in 1979, but I recall Broadview as being a large parts depot, but not a plant.

Construction Equipment crawlers and engines were built at a plant in Melrose Park.  IH was once a major employer in the Chicago area (and other places, too.)

Just a bit of extra information.

Regards,
Steve Hile

-----Original Message-----
From: "destorzek@... [STMFC]"
Sent: Mar 30, 2017 7:24 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Flat Car Load Pictures of International Bulldozers

 

Oh, wow, did that picture strike a chord:


The year of the photo is 1947. While the location is given as Chicago, I believe the IH plant was in west suburban Broadview, switched by the CB&Q.

On April 3, 1947, while traveling through Downers Grove, IL, maybe ten miles west of Broadview, one of those crawler tractors fell off the side of a flatcar, right in front of the Twin Zephyr, which derailed at track speed and tore the front wall off the brick Downers Grove depot. Luckily, the station agent had just stepped across the street for a cup of coffee when the derailed train demolished his operator's bay. Subsequent investigation showed that some of the blocking was never nailed to the deck, allowing the crawler to shift and slide off the side of the car. For all we know, we are looking at the load in question.

Here is a link to a newspaper article from the time:


Overall history of the wreck:


Dennis Storzek


Re: CGW PS-0 car kit

Don Burn
 

There is a picture of CGW 90036 in "Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual Volume One: Box and Automobile Cars" from Speedwich. Unfortunately is a 3/4 showing the A end.

Don Burn

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 2:40 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] CGW PS-0 car kit



Hi all,
I'm building F&C kit 6351, the welded 'PS-0' car w. 6 panel Superior door and 9 rib end panels, either UP or CGW. I chose for the Chicago Great Western lettering, since I own a few UP cars already. In 'my year' 1950 there were 49 of these CGW cars, numbered 90000-90049.
Searched the web, but can't find any prototype info. The kit's instructions mention box car red paint. I wonder if that is for body only, trucks and underframe being black?
Also: which type of end brake gear and trucks were used for this class?


Your help is appreciated.


best regards, Fred Jansz