Date   

(No subject)

Staffan Ehnbom
 

I have seen mention of Iron Range ore going South to Colorado perhaps in GN cars earlier and I shot a BN ore train going South near Genoa Wisconsin on the former Q line along the Mississippi in 1988 with all BN cars.

Staffan

On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 7:14 PM, Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Staffan,
 
I never heard the term either. And in my limitless ignorance I never knew that GN ore cars ever went off the GN. I assumed they shuttled between the mines and the ore docks and that was it. I keep learning.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Staffan Ehnbom staffan.ehnbom@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wed, May 10, 2017 1:57 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC]

 
Richard,

It would be reasonable to believe that standard GN steel ore cars like the 1929 built car no. 86251 in the Perry collection would be used for a move like this. I have a hunch there was a 35 miles per hour speed limit on GN ore trains on the Iron Range as well. I guess that would apply to trains forwarding these cars on the foreign road too. Just never heard the moniker "dump car" for a GN ore car. Learning something every day!

Staffan Ehnbom

On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 8:37 PM, Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 
Staffan,
 
Thanks for your detailed reply. I have a lot of information on C&S freight cars, but it includes no information that the C&S bought any GN ore cars. I believe these were GN revenue service cars bringing iron ore to the Colorado Fuel and Iron furnaces in Pueblo. I suspect they came via the GN to Sioux City, Iowa, then to Denver via the CB&Q, and finally to Pueblo via the C&S. Alternatively there may have been some other routing via the UP to Denver, or even - maximizing the haul on the GN - to Billings, then via CB&Q to the C&S in Wyoming. I just found at the Denver Public Library site an Otto Perry photo of GN ore car 86251 taken at Derby, Colorado (Denver area) in 1936. It must have been very late in 1936 since the car has a reweigh date of 11-36. I I think this is the kind of car the bulletin is referring to.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Staffan Ehnbom staffan.ehnbom@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wed, May 10, 2017 2:44 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC]

 
Richard,

Would you have any indication that these might be former GN (ore) cars bought by the C&S for use on line? There was an article inthe March/April 1981 Gazette on GN ore cars sold to several lines. Or would they be GN revenue service cars bringing ore from GN territory? In the latter case these are the GN cars that could dump a load: Aside from the steel ore cars mentioned there were still wood ore cars and the 180000 series wood 36' drop bottom coal & ore cars built 1900, the 72000 series looking like gons but with longitudinal bay hoppers (too large cars for iron ore?) and several series of 40' GS (perhaps less likely for ore sevice?), 73000 and 73200 series twin hoppers or 78000 series Hart convertible (ballast) cars. Some of the ubiquitous 40' truss rod box cars had hopper bottoms, but calling them "dump cars" might be pushing it a bit.

Staffan Ehnbom

On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 6:29 PM, Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 
I have at hand a selection of "bulletins" from the Colorado & Southern from the 1930s through the 1950s. They generally are one or two sentences and refer to things like a new siding being in place, specific operating instructions, and the like. One I am interested in following up on is from November 11, 1936, and says, "Trains handling Great Northern dump cars loaded with iron ore must not exceed a speed of 35 miles per hour." My question is, what would a "Great Northern dump car" have been in 1936?  
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 




Re: Essential Freight Cars

ed_mines
 

I'd buy that book.


Ed Mines


Gondola ends

Clark Propst
 

Last night I received an old Walthers orange box composite gondola kit. Long story on how I got it, but I was expecting something else. The model appears to have USRA design sides with steel Murphy style ends and wood ends with two diagonal hat section braces forming a V on either side of a straight vertical brace in the center of the end.
My question is: Is this wood end protoypical? If so, what railroads would have had composite gons with those ends?
Thanks!!
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Shipments: "Military Kraut"

thecitrusbelt@...
 

The freight car load data from Terry Link's Canada Southern Railway website (see message post #150111) had four loads recorded as "Military Kraut" among many listing for various military loads. All four "Military Kraut" loads were loaded on Santa Fe cars (one boxcar and three reefers).

 

I assume whatever this equipment was it had been captured from the German Army and was being transported to some location(s) for analysis and perhaps reverse engineering.

 

Does anyone know more about the specifics of such loads?

 

Thanks.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


(No subject)

Richard Townsend
 

Staffan,
 
I never heard the term either. And in my limitless ignorance I never knew that GN ore cars ever went off the GN. I assumed they shuttled between the mines and the ore docks and that was it. I keep learning.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Staffan Ehnbom staffan.ehnbom@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Wed, May 10, 2017 1:57 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC]

 
Richard,

It would be reasonable to believe that standard GN steel ore cars like the 1929 built car no. 86251 in the Perry collection would be used for a move like this. I have a hunch there was a 35 miles per hour speed limit on GN ore trains on the Iron Range as well. I guess that would apply to trains forwarding these cars on the foreign road too. Just never heard the moniker "dump car" for a GN ore car. Learning something every day!

Staffan Ehnbom

On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 8:37 PM, Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 
Staffan,
 
Thanks for your detailed reply. I have a lot of information on C&S freight cars, but it includes no information that the C&S bought any GN ore cars. I believe these were GN revenue service cars bringing iron ore to the Colorado Fuel and Iron furnaces in Pueblo. I suspect they came via the GN to Sioux City, Iowa, then to Denver via the CB&Q, and finally to Pueblo via the C&S. Alternatively there may have been some other routing via the UP to Denver, or even - maximizing the haul on the GN - to Billings, then via CB&Q to the C&S in Wyoming. I just found at the Denver Public Library site an Otto Perry photo of GN ore car 86251 taken at Derby, Colorado (Denver area) in 1936. It must have been very late in 1936 since the car has a reweigh date of 11-36. I I think this is the kind of car the bulletin is referring to.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Staffan Ehnbom staffan.ehnbom@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wed, May 10, 2017 2:44 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC]

 
Richard,

Would you have any indication that these might be former GN (ore) cars bought by the C&S for use on line? There was an article inthe March/April 1981 Gazette on GN ore cars sold to several lines. Or would they be GN revenue service cars bringing ore from GN territory? In the latter case these are the GN cars that could dump a load: Aside from the steel ore cars mentioned there were still wood ore cars and the 180000 series wood 36' drop bottom coal & ore cars built 1900, the 72000 series looking like gons but with longitudinal bay hoppers (too large cars for iron ore?) and several series of 40' GS (perhaps less likely for ore sevice?), 73000 and 73200 series twin hoppers or 78000 series Hart convertible (ballast) cars. Some of the ubiquitous 40' truss rod box cars had hopper bottoms, but calling them "dump cars" might be pushing it a bit.

Staffan Ehnbom

On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 6:29 PM, Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 
I have at hand a selection of "bulletins" from the Colorado & Southern from the 1930s through the 1950s. They generally are one or two sentences and refer to things like a new siding being in place, specific operating instructions, and the like. One I am interested in following up on is from November 11, 1936, and says, "Trains handling Great Northern dump cars loaded with iron ore must not exceed a speed of 35 miles per hour." My question is, what would a "Great Northern dump car" have been in 1936?  
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 



Re: Can I modify a Type 21 underframe into Type 11?

Kemal Mumcu
 

Very helpful indeed Ian. As I model the late '40s this car had a different number and reporting marks than what is currently on the car. Any guess or opinion as to whether the car would have been sporting it's "aluminium" paint job by the '40s?


Re: PFE/WP Reefers: Color of Feather (Orange or Silver)?

Tim O'Connor
 


Garth, I think it's an optical illusion. In my 1941 photo (52626) the feather appears to be other than B&W, but
a COLOR photo in 1957 (55589) also gives this appearance. I think the reason is that the feather is so finely done
with thin black lines that it simply appears to be painted another color.

Tim O'Connor




There are two color photos of these cars in Jim Eager's WESTERN PACIFIC COLOR GUIDE TO FREIGHT AND PASSENGER EQUIPMENT. A car preserved at the Feather River Railroad Museum shows the herald as black and what was probably white details. Actually, the light colored parts are yellow-orange, as most of the white has weathered away. This car was last reconditioned in 1943. The second is an in-service shot of a reconditioned car from the 1950s. The herald is clearly black and white.

It is possible that the herald originally had a red-orange feather when the cars were new, but this probably didn't last. Certainly by the first rebuilding around 1938-1943, the herald was black and white.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


Re: SFRD reefer classes

Clark Propst
 

Thanks to all the assistance I decided to build the model with the kit parts. I really enjoyed assembling this model, especially the underside. Well thought out. I did replace the steps with A-Line of course.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: Essential Freight Cars

rwitt_2000
 

I always thought Ted would collect them all into a book. I recall the copyright notice was different for those articles and I always assumed that Ted retained future rights for publication.

Regards,

Bob Witt


Re: Essential Freight Cars

Jon Miller
 

On 5/23/2017 2:11 AM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] wrote:


I have long urged Ted to collect them all in book form.

    That would be a book I would like.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Can I modify a Type 21 underframe into Type 11?

Ian Cranstone
 

On 2017-05-23, at 7:29 AM, kemal_mumcu@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Thanks for adding to this discussion all. Ian, you provided information on this car previously unknown to me. The 1800 series listing seems to have died in 1929 according to your site. Was this car renumbered after 1929? And if so to what series?

This is from an unpublished manuscript that I've been working on -- unfortunately my website page on Imperial Oil Ltd/Transit Company Ltd. is in need of a serious update, as I've uncovered a lot of info on these fleets in the last couple of years and have not yet updated the website.  It looks like BMMX 1800-1813 were renumbered mostly from former TCLX 800-899 series cars in mid-1927, and were renumbered back to the 800 series, but apparently now with SUPX reporting marks (another Transit Co. Ltd. reporting mark), by late 1943.  Beginning about 1950, SUPX reporting marks began to be replaced by TCLX reporting marks, which was still in progress when the Imperial Oil/Transit Co. Ltd. fleets were sold to the Products Tank Line of Canada in late 1952 (a UTLX subsidiary, which later became Procor).  By 1960, all former IOX/TCLX cars had been relettered to UTLX reporting marks and numbers, and the Canadian subsidiary's cars were distinguishable from the American parent's cars only through the stencilling of capacities on the end of the car in Imperial gallons.  Procor lettering would only begin to appear circa 1962.

This particular car was first lettered TCLX 866, was listed as BMMX 1804 in the 1936 Tank Car Capacities Tariff, as TCLX 866 in the 1955 Tank Car Capacities Tariff, UTLX 26354 in the 1960 Tank Car Capacities Tariff, and was no longer listed in the 1970 Tank Car Capacities Tariff.  As mentioned above, based on the ORER listings, it seems likely that the car was SUPX 866 by 1943 through to the early 1950s.

Knowing this car is from the 800 series is helpful as I have a photo of 893 from the Vancouver area that shows detail.

It should be identical, pending any in-service modifications.

Ian Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada


Re: Essential Freight Cars

Benjamin Hom
 

Barry Kenner asked:
"I am very impressed with the detail and information in Ted Culotta's series of articles 'Essential Freight Cars'. I was wondering if all of them were available. I have some of the latter ones. None of my searches have worked. I thought I would ask the group."

For a complete list of the articles in the series, go to
and do a CTRL+F search for "EssentialFreightCars46.pdf"

This will give you the latest version of the list compiled by Rich Brennan in February 2013.  There are two older versions that probably should be deleted.

RMC back issues published by Carstens are not available from WRP, but are common on the secondary market.  I've always had good luck getting my back issues from Railpub.


Ben Hom


Re: Bracket Grabs

frograbbit602
 

Kadee. And, Yarmouth Models has a nice jig for drilling holes if one needs one.
Lester Breuer


Re: Essential Freight Cars

O Fenton Wells
 

Yes the Essential Freight Car articles should be re released as a book. 
Fenton 


On May 23, 2017, at 5:11 AM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

I have long urged Ted to collect them all in book form. If you agree, let him know.
Tony Thompson 


On May 23, 2017, at 10:44 AM, Barry Kenner hoboborr@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Hello Group,
I am very impressed with the detail and information in Ted Culotta's series of articles"Essential Freight Cars". I was wondering if all of them were available. I have some of the latter ones. None of my searches have worked. I thought I would ask the group. Thanks,Barry


Re: Can I modify a Type 21 underframe into Type 11?

Kemal Mumcu
 

Thanks for adding to this discussion all. Ian, you provided information on this car previously unknown to me. The 1800 series listing seems to have died in 1929 according to your site. Was this car renumbered after 1929? And if so to what series?

Knowing this car is from the 800 series is helpful as I have a photo of 893 from the Vancouver area that shows detail.

So basically as I see it, I need to modify the side and end sills and rebuild the walk way supports to make this a earlier type underframe?

Colin


Re: Bracket Grabs

Fred Jansz
 

Kadee, with Yarmouth drill template.
Fred Jansz


Re: Essential Freight Cars

Tony Thompson
 

I have long urged Ted to collect them all in book form. If you agree, let him know.
Tony Thompson 


On May 23, 2017, at 10:44 AM, Barry Kenner hoboborr@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Hello Group,
I am very impressed with the detail and information in Ted Culotta's series of articles"Essential Freight Cars". I was wondering if all of them were available. I have some of the latter ones. None of my searches have worked. I thought I would ask the group. Thanks,Barry


Re: PFE/WP Reefers: Color of Feather (Orange or Silver)?

Tony Thompson
 

I know of no documentation of WP reefers in PFE service with other than B&W emblems. Dick Harley may know more.
Tony Thompson 


On May 23, 2017, at 8:15 AM, Garth Groff sarahsan@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Bill,

There are two color photos of these cars in Jim Eager's WESTERN PACIFIC COLOR GUIDE TO FREIGHT AND PASSENGER EQUIPMENT. A car preserved at the Feather River Railroad Museum shows the herald as black and what was probably white details. Actually, the light colored parts are yellow-orange, as most of the white has weathered away. This car was last reconditioned in 1943. The second is an in-service shot of a reconditioned car from the 1950s. The herald is clearly black and white.

It is possible that the herald originally had a red-orange feather when the cars were new, but this probably didn't last. Certainly by the first rebuilding around 1938-1943, the herald was black and white.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 5/22/17 3:23 PM, bill_stanton60@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

I have a red caboose kit r-30-12 pfe/wp reefer with feather in WP logo as orange but I've seen a red caboose RTR with the feather as silver.


Can anyone explain which is correct?


(I'm modeling 1947-48)


thanks



Re: PFE/WP Reefers: Color of Feather (Orange or Silver)?

Fred Jansz
 

Bill,
Herald was B&W. However, if y're modeling a WP car in 1948 from this RC car, please note:

- car side says 'completely reconditioned in 1939', which it is not, because:
- the RC car still has the short 'as built' body (R-30-12, pre 1939, should be R-30-9 after 1939-1941)
- trucks in the kit are T-section, should be AAR in 1948
- the underbody is Bettendorf, but the majority had built up frames.
- the sides and ends are missing the reinforcement strip detail bolted to the bottom of the side boards and on the ends (all wooden RC/IM cars miss this detail, Tichy and Sunshine has it).
- by 1950 only 114 WP reefers were left unreconditioned and probably in terrible shape, if not set aside.

If you're not a rivet counter, it's a nice stand in for one of the remaining -obviously well weathered- 114 WP cars. I have one and covered the orange shield with a decal. Added lots of decal softener and scribed the planking with a sharp knife. The orange feather doesn't show.

cheers, Fred Jansz


Re: Bracket Grabs

Tim O'Connor
 

Kadee

What's the best HO scale bracket grab aftermarket part these days (scale-size brackets and rungs, flash free, glue-able, etc.)?
Thanks,
Bob Chapman