Date   

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Bulk Clay Shipments In Boxcars

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Mike;

Was that tannery on the WAG?

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2018 2:33 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [STMFC] Bulk Clay Shipments In Boxcars



Hello Bob Chaparro and the Group!

I do not know what "typical" means in this regard but I can relate that boxcar loads of clay routinely arrived in Potter County, Pennsylvania on their way to a tannery in 1956. Source of the shipments was Sandersville, Georgia. The half-dozen or so cars were all XM from a number of RRs.

Regards from Grove City, Penna.----Mike Schleigh

On Friday, February 16, 2018, 1:54:42 PM EST, thecitrusbelt@yahoo.com [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:




A few questions:



Were bulk clay shipments in boxcars typically short- or long-haul?

Which railroads did a significant business in bulk clay shipments?



Thanks.



Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Bulk Clay Shipments In Boxcars (Type LO)

Benjamin Hom
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:
"I should have noted that by the term "bulk" I was thinking of converted boxcars which were reclassified to Type LO as defined by AAR Mechanical Designations:
"LO" -- A self-clearing permanently enclosed car, having roof, sides and ends, fitted with openings in roof for loading and having weather-tight covers, also opening in bottom for unloading, having tight fitting covers or doors to prevent leakage (3/27-3/29).
"LO" -- A self-clearing permanently enclosed car, with or without insulation, having fixed roof, sides, ends, and provided with openings for loading through roof or sides. Loading openings fitted with weather-tight covers or doors. Car also provided with bottom openings for unloading, with tight fitting covers or doors to prevent leakage of such commodities as sand, etc. (7/32-7/43).
"LO" -- A self-clearing permanently enclosed car, with or without insulation, having fixed roof, sides, ends, and provided with openings for loading through roof or sides. Loading openings fitted with weather-tight covers or doors. Car may also be provided with bottom openings for unloading, with tight fitting covers, doors or valves or may be provided with facilities for discharge of lading through openings in roof or sides. Cars may have one or more compartments (1/49-1/61)."

Are you sure?  The cars you're looking for are more commonly classed Type LC: "Box car with side doors and roof hatches. May be equipped with end doors. Roof hatches may vary in number and location."


Ben Hom


Re: M&StL Brake System Arrangement Question/Help

Bill Welch
 

YES

Thank you Bill

I will see what is on the parts sheet, I am building this kit w/o instructions.

Bill Welch


Re: Bulk Clay Shipments In Boxcars

Schleigh Mike
 

Hello Bob Chaparro and the Group!

I do not know what "typical" means in this regard but I can relate that boxcar loads of clay routinely arrived in Potter County, Pennsylvania on their way to a tannery in 1956.  Source of the shipments was Sandersville, Georgia.  The half-dozen or so cars were all XM from a number of RRs.

Regards from Grove City, Penna.----Mike Schleigh

On Friday, February 16, 2018, 1:54:42 PM EST, thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC] wrote:


 

A few questions:

 

Were bulk clay shipments in boxcars typically short- or long-haul?

Which railroads did a significant business in bulk clay shipments?

 

Thanks.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: M&StL Brake System Arrangement Question/Help

Joseph
 

Bill,
The Louie 24k series car has this funny brake lever set at about a 30 degree angle.  I think I have a photo somewhere.  I will look tomorrow afternoon after my op session on the Central of MN. Gotta go fry fish now for the KofC....
Joe Binish


On Feb 16, 2018, at 11:03 AM, brianleppert@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Bill, the 18th volume of Railway Prototype Cyclopedia, page 10 has a drawing I think you're looking for.

Brian Leppert
Carson
city, NV


Re: M&StL Brake System Arrangement Question/Help

Bill Welch
 

On page 18 Figure 42 of Gene's "Freight Car Underbody Detail" there is a drawing of a three-lever arrangement, but it is not the same arrangement used on the M&StL cars. I am using the photos in Ted Culotta's L&N Boxcar Profile #1 as a guide. I was wrong to describe the bracket where the third lever attaches as triangular as it is more of a trapezoid. Thanks Brian for the reminder on that volume.

Bill Welch


Bulk Clay Shipments In Boxcars

thecitrusbelt@...
 

A few questions:

 

Were bulk clay shipments in boxcars typically short- or long-haul?

Which railroads did a significant business in bulk clay shipments?

 

Thanks.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: M&StL Brake System Arrangement Question/Help

william darnaby
 

Bill,



I have built one of these cars. There is an extra lever attached to the handbrake and then attached to the live lever with a chain. It appears to be a force multiplier for the handbrake. Sunshine provided a bracket for the pivot point of this lever which causes it to angle upwards the floor. Is this what you are referring to?



Bill Darnaby



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:56 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] M&StL Brake System Arrangement Question/Help








I am building a Sunshine kit of the M&StL's 24000 series kit, a Pratt trussed SS car w/XLA roof and composite ends built in 1930, originally w/KC brake. These particular cars had what I will call a "triangular bracket" (attached to the center sill I think) to which was apparently mounted the brake lever at about a 30 degree angle. I am basing this description on photos, I could have this all wrong. I don't necessarily want to get this arrangement 100% correct in terms of connections, rodding, etc. but would like it to look correct when viewed from the side. I am curious if anyone has any authoritative wisdom or resources I can use to reasonably recreate what I am seeing. If so you can email at fgexbill(at)tampabay.rr.com



I am certain this system was not unique to the M&StL.



Here is a link with six photos showing the triangular looking bracket and the seemingly angled lever forward of the brake cylinder: https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/XZTh4QnUhve5bcCPqwaB1xQlxPB8sv8aTbPT1Ax82qh



Thank you,

Bill Welch










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: M&StL Brake System Arrangement Question/Help

brianleppert@att.net
 

Bill, the 18th volume of Railway Prototype Cyclopedia, page 10 has a drawing I think you're looking for.

Brian Leppert
Carson
city, NV


Re: M&StL Brake System Arrangement Question/Help

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <fgexbill@...> wrote :

So there are no drawings of the "ARA standard arrangement for foundation brake gear."
==================

Huh? I think every Car Builder's Cyclopedia published in the twentieth century has a plate titled "MCB/ARA/AAR brake arrangement for boxcar."

Even closer at hand is Gene Green's freight car brake clinic handout, in this group's files section:





Sorry, I have no idea what the Zebra reference refers to, were these arrangement on stock cars or something.

Bill Welch
======================
My point was you are starting with very minimal information, those poor images you posted, and are jumping to the conclusion that you see something unusual. Wouldn't it be more prudent, considering the minimal evidence, to assume the car has the normal brake arrangement for the era, and we simply can't see it well in the photos?

Dennis Storzek


 

Bill Welch


Re: M&StL Brake System Arrangement Question/Help

Bill Welch
 

So there are no drawings of the "ARA standard arrangement for foundation brake gear."

Sorry, I have no idea what the Zebra reference refers to, were these arrangement on stock cars or something.

Bill Welch


Re: M&StL Brake System Arrangement Question/Help

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <fgexbill@...> wrote :

You are probably not missing anything Dennis except my ignorance about the three lever "ARA standard arrangement for foundation brake gear." I am unaware of this and the triangular bracket for the third lever associated with it. Can you possibly point me towards a drawing for the "ARA standard arrangement for foundation brake gear" please?

Bill Welch
=====================

Bill,

I'm not seeing any "triangular bracket for the third lever associated with it". In fact, I'm not seeing much of anything in the images you present. In two of them I can see the brake cylinder clevis, and in one the chain between that and the hand brake rod. The brake levers have to be supported by lever guides, and the lever guides can have different shaped end attachments (they don't have to look like grab irons), but nothing shows clearly enough to indicate there is anything different from the standard arrangement.

You know the old saying... when you hear hoof beats outside the window, DON'T ASSUME A ZEBRA.

Dennis Storzek
 


Re: M&StL Brake System Arrangement Question/Help

Bill Welch
 

You are probably not missing anything Dennis except my ignorance about the three lever "ARA standard arrangement for foundation brake gear." I am unaware of this and the triangular bracket for the third lever associated with it. Can you possibly point me towards a drawing for the "ARA standard arrangement for foundation brake gear" please?

Bill Welch


Re: M&StL Brake System Arrangement Question/Help

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <fgexbill@...> wrote :


Here is a link with six photos showing the triangular looking bracket and the seemingly angled lever forward of the brake cylinder: https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/XZTh4QnUhve5bcCPqwaB1xQlxPB8sv8aTbPT1Ax82qh

 

Thank you,

Bill Welch

=======================


Bill,


I'm not seeing anything other than the ARA standard arrangement for foundation brake gear. What am I missing?


Dennis Storzek


Re: US Navy 36 Foot Box Cars-Late 1940's

Garth Groff or Sally Sanford <sarahsan@...>
 

Ken,

I am dubious that these cars were used beyond Navy property. I believe their sole purpose was to move ammunition from the Concord Naval Weapons Station magazines to the loading docks at Port Chicago.

There were many more boxcars for this service besides the D&RGW cars. The Western Railway Museum also owns M&STL single-sheathed boxcar 28214, which has a huge door that was probably added by the Navy. You might check with the WRM to see if they have photos of the cars upon donation. Given the tight security the base had when it was in operation, I doubt that there are many, if any, photos of the cars during their Navy service unless they are in the National Archives.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 2/15/18 2:39 PM, smadanek@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

After the horrendous disastrous Port Chicago explosion in the SF Bay Area in 1944, I understand the US Navy acquired some ex DRGW 36 foot box cars to replace those for use in moving munitions and other military supplies around the sprawling complex of docks and warehouses. I have an undecorated Accurail 1400 series boxcar which matches the DRGW box cars and am thinking it would be interesting to paint it off-white and letter it for the US Navy cars. 


The only USN decals I have been able to find are for silver helium cars and appear to be 1950's versions of the Navy lettering scheme. I don't have a good side view of these cars in their late 1940's USN guise. There are survivors of this set of cars and at least one of them is at the Western Railroad museum in Rio Vista, California but repainted as a DRGW car. 


I would welcome any pointer to a source for existing decals.  Pictures of the cars from the 1940's would also be welcome. There is a presentation on home made and printed simple decals at the next NMRA PCR Coast Division meeting on March 4, and I would like to gain from that with a ready sample.  Last resort is to visit the Western Railroad Museum (it's only about 25 miles away) and see if I can look access their vast photo archive for a picture.  Unfortunately last time I asked they wanted $40 a print.


Any assistance is greatly appreciated.


Ken Adams

Up Walnut Creek




Re: US Navy 36 Foot Box Cars-Late 1940's

Benjamin Hom
 

Ken Adams asked:
"After the horrendous disastrous Port Chicago explosion in the SF Bay Area in 1944, I understand the US Navy acquired some ex DRGW 36 foot box cars to replace those for use in moving munitions and other military supplies around the sprawling complex of docks and warehouses. I have an undecorated Accurail 1400 series boxcar which matches the DRGW box cars and am thinking it would be interesting to paint it off-white and letter it for the US Navy cars. 
<>
I would welcome any pointer to a source for existing decals."

Not decals, but dry transfers.  Clover House Set 9365-01:


Ben Hom


Re: M&StL Brake System Arrangement Question/Help

Bill Welch
 

Brain

Yes, obviously I had forgotten, thank you friend for the reminder.

Bill Welch


Re: M&StL Brake System Arrangement Question/Help

brianleppert@att.net
 

Isn't this feature what Ted Culotta modeled in his first Prototype Railroad Profiles covering L&N ARA SS boxcars?

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


US Navy 36 Foot Box Cars-Late 1940's

smadanek@...
 

After the horrendous disastrous Port Chicago explosion in the SF Bay Area in 1944, I understand the US Navy acquired some ex DRGW 36 foot box cars to replace those for use in moving munitions and other military supplies around the sprawling complex of docks and warehouses. I have an undecorated Accurail 1400 series boxcar which matches the DRGW box cars and am thinking it would be interesting to paint it off-white and letter it for the US Navy cars. 


The only USN decals I have been able to find are for silver helium cars and appear to be 1950's versions of the Navy lettering scheme. I don't have a good side view of these cars in their late 1940's USN guise. There are survivors of this set of cars and at least one of them is at the Western Railroad museum in Rio Vista, California but repainted as a DRGW car. 


I would welcome any pointer to a source for existing decals.  Pictures of the cars from the 1940's would also be welcome. There is a presentation on home made and printed simple decals at the next NMRA PCR Coast Division meeting on March 4, and I would like to gain from that with a ready sample.  Last resort is to visit the Western Railroad Museum (it's only about 25 miles away) and see if I can look access their vast photo archive for a picture.  Unfortunately last time I asked they wanted $40 a print.


Any assistance is greatly appreciated.


Ken Adams

Up Walnut Creek



Re: M&StL Brake System Arrangement Question/Help

Tim O'Connor
 

Bill

I've seen many modern freight cars with levers set at an angle relative to
the ground, but it's cool you found a much older car with the arrangement. I
have not noticed it on any other steam era cars.

Tim O'Connor


I am building a Sunshine kit of the M&StL's 24000 series kit, a Pratt trussed SS car w/XLA roof and composite ends built in 1930, originally w/KC brake. These particular cars had what I will call a "triangular bracket" (attached to the center sill I think) to which was apparently mounted the brake lever at about a 30 degree angle. I am basing this description on photos, I could have this all wrong. I don't necessarily want to get this arrangement 100% correct in terms of connections, rodding, etc. but would like it to look correct when viewed from the side. I am curious if anyone has any authoritative wisdom or resources I can use to reasonably recreate what I am seeing. If so you can email at fgexbill(at)tampabay.rr.com

I am certain this system was not unique to the M&StL.

Here is a link with six photos showing the triangular looking bracket and the seemingly angled lever forward of the brake cylinder: https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/XZTh4QnUhve5bcCPqwaB1xQlxPB8sv8aTbPT1Ax82qh

Thank you,
Bill Welch

29721 - 29740 of 185164