Date   

Re: Mystery boxcars - anyone know what these are based off or of any similar cars?

Tony Thompson
 

Todd Sullivan  wrote:

They look like Train Miniature double wood sheathed steel end 40ft boxcars that have no particular prototype, AFAIK.

Definitely Train Miniature. That whole line was supposed to represent various 1920s cars, but they made MANY compromises so they could use one underframe and interchange the molds for ends, sides and roofs. A  number of the permutations that they did produce had no prototype. But the basic cars were SUPPOSED to have prototypes.

Tony Thompson




Re: Mystery boxcars - anyone know what these are based off or of any similar cars?

CapnMatter
 

That's what I was thinking company wise, and I figured they were freelance designs. I would like to kitbash them to 'proper' prototype cars, if we can find cars that match up to the dimensions (or if I have to cut it down, length wise.)

I just realized I did forget to measure the door. I'll get that as soon as possible, as I'm out of the house when writing this. Any other measurements that I should take when I can?

On Sun, Feb 28, 2021, 12:43 PM Todd Sullivan via groups.io <sullivant41=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
They look like Train Miniature double wood sheathed steel end 40ft boxcars that have no particular prototype, AFAIK.

Todd Sullivan


Re: Mystery boxcars - anyone know what these are based off or of any similar cars?

Todd Sullivan
 

They look like Train Miniature double wood sheathed steel end 40ft boxcars that have no particular prototype, AFAIK.

Todd Sullivan


Re: Mystery boxcars - anyone know what these are based off or of any similar cars?

Jim Gates
 


The white one appears to be a Train Miniature stock no 8073, part of the car spotter's series. Later released as stock no 2264. I believe the prototype actually had the doors down at the end of the side.

Jim Gates

On Sunday, February 28, 2021, 12:25:11 PM CST, CapnMatter <capnmatter@...> wrote:


I bought these cars for cheap at a trainshow the other day, I knew when I bought them they'd need work. I'm sure there's cars that line up with these, I just don't know of what. Anyone know?

Dimensions-
141.2mm long, or in HO 40ft
33.3mm wide, or 9ft 6in
35.9mm tall, or about 10ft tall


Freight Terminals & Trains

Bob Chaparro
 

Freight Terminals & Trains

The 1912 book, Freight Terminals & Trains by John A. Droege, has a ton material applicable to the Steam Era.

Here is a link.

Freight Terminals and Trains: Including a Revision of Yards and Terminals - John Albert Droege - Google Books

This material can be download as a PDF or as plain text.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Mystery boxcars - anyone know what these are based off or of any similar cars?

CapnMatter
 

I bought these cars for cheap at a trainshow the other day, I knew when I bought them they'd need work. I'm sure there's cars that line up with these, I just don't know of what. Anyone know?

Dimensions-
141.2mm long, or in HO 40ft
33.3mm wide, or 9ft 6in
35.9mm tall, or about 10ft tall


Re: Monon 1937 AAR boxcar

Eric Hansmann
 

Wow. Very nice work, Dick. It’s like a double A side 45 record. A great looking boxcar on stunning modified trucks. Thanks for sharing your work!

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Scott
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2021 5:28 PM
To: Steam Era Freight Cars <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Monon 1937 AAR boxcar

 

Mont Switzer's 2017 Chicagoland RPM presentation motivated me to model a Monon boxcar.  O-scale CIL 9157 began as an Intermountain kit.  I scratchbuilt a new roof walk for it from styrene strips, and I replaced some of the kit's more fragile styrene parts with brass equivalents.  I painted the car with Polly Scale and MicroLux acrylics, and lettered it with Protocraft decals.

 

The Monon had 450 of these 1937 AAR boxcars, with road numbers 9000-9449.  Pullman-Standard built them in 1941 and 1942, and all rode on National B-1 trucks.  O-scale B-1s are hard to find so I "scratch-bashed" these from 1970s-vintage Atlas Bettendorf trucks.  The Atlas side-frames were molded from high-impact polystyrene so the conversion wasn't difficult.  The attached photos show how I did it.

 

Stay well,

Dick Scott

 


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Burning Box Car

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Thanks for the pic, Mike!

 

I only saw some Monon coke cars when I visited relatives in Indiana.  They looked different from anything else.

 

No, sadly, I never saw them in Pittsburgh, but I haven’t stopped looking!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Michael Aufderheide
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2021 6:28 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Burning Box Car

 

Eldon,

Mont might be in his basement working on sweet freightcar models instead of looking at his computer, so I will send along a Monon coke car photo.  The car in the photo was rebuilt from a low-sided composite gon with a super-structure added  If you look closely you can see where the side stakes bolted to the frame.  Others were rebuilt from boxcars.  As Mont related, these caught fire every so often, so the car series changes over time.  In my late 40s time period there were 4 series numbered 900-1039.

Do you ever see any of these Monon cars in your photos of Pittsburgh?

Best Regards,

Mike Aufderheide 


Re: Emailing: IMG_5838, IMG_5841

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Mont;

Thanks for sharing!

Those are very cool cars.

You must do a LOT of bashing!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mont Switzer
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2021 9:04 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Emailing: IMG_5838, IMG_5841

Mike, Eldon and all,

The info that I have shows the MONON had two designs of composite coke cars. CIL 1019 is a former low side stone gon onto which the composite coke body was lowered and secured. MON 1033 shows a different design like MON 1028 that Mike shared. Same base car, but gon posts have been removed and different coke body lowered into place. I suspect that this later version was actually a composite boxcar body with the roof and doors removed before being lowered onto the former stone gon.

The MONON's Lafayette, IN SHOPS made all kinds of cars from these extremely sturdy 1920's era low side composite gondolas. In addition to the coke cars, there were head end cabooses, general service flat cars, and TOFC flat cars. All sorts of company service cars were constructed including wheel cars, boom cars and even a pile driver.

It is my understanding that the stone gons were constructed by Pullman in on-line Michigan City and hauled without wood components to the Monon's Lafayette Shops where they were completed.

The "do it yourself" nature of the Monon's car shops makes for some interesting modeling projects.

Mont
Your message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:

IMG_5838
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Another eBay listing

Clark Propst
 


Re: Red Owl warehouse

Mont Switzer
 

For what it is worth the Michigan Sugar mill in Caro, MI is supposed to be the oldest standing business of this type in the USA.  It is inland and only served by rail and truck.

 

Mont Switzer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of William Hirt
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2021 10:14 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Red Owl warehouse

 

Great Western Sugar built a sugar terminal facility in Western Springs IL in the late 1950s/early 1960s. This is on the CB&Q triple track mainline in the Chicago suburbs. The sugar shipped from this facility came from Great Western's processing facilities in Colorado and Wyoming. So that would be 1,000 mile one way trip. Now by that time the commodity was being shipped in bulk by Airslide or the early PS-2 3-bay Covered Hoppers (especially to a terminal). These definitely influenced the transportation costs and I wonder if the transportation distance issue changed substantially between 1950 and 1960 for commodities like sugar.

Bill Hirt

On 2/27/2021 8:00 PM, np328 wrote:

Not to throw the Red Owl warehouse topic off or head off in a tangent, however with all due respect to "where the sugar comes from” regarding the Hopkins MN warehouse; 
   Sugar is (1) a bulk commodity, (2) it is publicly traded, and should it be cane or beet (3) it is grown in many areas around the US.


Sugar costs are low, low enough that in that the US sugar industry, price supports exist to maintain US sugar independence.  

And because of all of the above - shipping transport costs quickly assume a great importance to final prices when all other costs tend to be either low or stable across large areas. 
Here we have both.

      I dislike greatly the mixing of data across eras, and am aware of this lists cut-off date of 1960, something I very strongly support. However ask that the map introduced by this link be looked at and ask yourself the question; with all these sugar processing options closer to the Hopkins, MN Red Owl warehouse, just south of the Twin Cities or in the Red River Valley, why would one go into MT?             Billings is closer (550-600 miles) to the population center of Denver, CO and seems a more logical destination.  (Wasn't there a large baking consortium there?)


https://sugaralliance.org/us-sugar/sugars-coast-to-coast-reach

_,_._,_


Re: Monon 1937 AAR boxcar

Mont Switzer
 

Dick,

 

Well done.

 

As a side note, cars 9001-9150 had ASF A-3’s. 

 

CI&L 9157 had the National B-1 trucks which you so nicely crafted. 

 

Are those trucks made from the slick engineering plastic, and if so how did you do so well attaching details?

 

Mont

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Scott
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2021 6:28 PM
To: Steam Era Freight Cars <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Monon 1937 AAR boxcar

 

Mont Switzer's 2017 Chicagoland RPM presentation motivated me to model a Monon boxcar.  O-scale CIL 9157 began as an Intermountain kit.  I scratchbuilt a new roof walk for it from styrene strips, and I replaced some of the kit's more fragile styrene parts with brass equivalents.  I painted the car with Polly Scale and MicroLux acrylics, and lettered it with Protocraft decals.

 

The Monon had 450 of these 1937 AAR boxcars, with road numbers 9000-9449.  Pullman-Standard built them in 1941 and 1942, and all rode on National B-1 trucks.  O-scale B-1s are hard to find so I "scratch-bashed" these from 1970s-vintage Atlas Bettendorf trucks.  The Atlas side-frames were molded from high-impact polystyrene so the conversion wasn't difficult.  The attached photos show how I did it.

 

Stay well,

Dick Scott

 

Attachments:


Re: Shortening Kadee Running Board

Mont Switzer
 

Bruce,

 

As I detail my KATO covered hopper cars (dead nuts on for MONON) I apply Kadee running boards. 

 

First, I use the 50 ft. size.  I slice off the corner platforms with a razor blade and cut the “trunk” of the running board to match what I am removing from the model.  I then reinstall the platforms in the proper locations using strip styrene to support them at the proper height.

 

Why 50 ft. long running boards?  Leaves plenty of material for platforms and such.  The leftovers also make great locomotive running boards.

 

Mont

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Griffin
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2021 4:26 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Shortening Kadee Running Board

 

Friends,

I did a search of this and several lists and could not find an answer, has anyone ever shortened a Kadee running board? I am building a Rail Shop Carbon Black Hopper and want to replicate a 1948 build with an Apex running board. I would love to use a Kadee 50’ part and need to cut out 5’, presumably from the center in order to keep the end details in place.  

Has anyone tried this or have suggestions that would make it easier? Photos? I know canopy glue is a good adhesive for adhering to supports and maybe I could make the joint over one. Thanks for your insights. 
 

Bruce D. Griffin
Ashland, MD
https://bomodeling.com/blog/

 


Re: PFE Express Reefer Color

Bryian Sones
 

Ray, also something to consider. I'm not sure if you are planning to redo the car but..... The Champ BR-340 and Martin's Decal set are Gold on more of the orange side of the color spectrum in which I believe to be the correct prototype color. 

I'm not sure what the font color is on the Walthers Car but the Intermountain BR-40-10 is a Gold that is more on the yellow side of the color spectrum.
If that is the case it may be difficult to get everything to look right so you may need to redo everything.   

Bryian Sones
Union Pacific Prototype Modeler
Murrieta, CA


On Sunday, February 28, 2021, 07:22:51 AM PST, Bryian Sones via groups.io <bryian.sones@...> wrote:


Ray, 

I have a set of Champ Blue Ribbon BRH-34. One sheet has a slight bend or crease on it when I bought it.  Other than that both decals are in mint condition.
I could sell them to you at a fair price plus the shipping. I was having trouble finding more of them years ago and gave up. 
When Martin Lofton Of Sunshine Models came out with his BR-40-10 (R-40-10) I bought a stack of decals from him so I don't need the Champs set.
PM me if you want them and we can work something out.

Kind Regards,    

Bryian Sones
Union Pacific Prototype Modeler
Murrieta, CA


On Sunday, February 28, 2021, 05:25:40 AM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Ray

If you can find them - CHAMP HX-11 and CHAMP BRH-340


On 2/28/2021 1:22 AM, Tony Thompson wrote:
Ray Carson wrote:

I currently have a Walthers GACX express reefer that I was doing some modifications to match it with the PFE prototype. The problem is I got carried away and damaged the paint and some of the wood sheath details on the sides. Even though express reefers aren't technically considered freight cars but passenger cars, I was wondering if the PFE cars were actually dark olive like the UP and SP heavyweight cars or just the general Pullman green.

Dark Olive Green.

Also what are some good PFE decals to go with these cars? The Tichy decals are rather off as I look at them.

Not sure what is currently available. 

Tony Thompson


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: PFE Express Reefer Color

Bryian Sones
 

Ray, 

I have a set of Champ Blue Ribbon BRH-34. One sheet has a slight bend or crease on it when I bought it.  Other than that both decals are in mint condition.
I could sell them to you at a fair price plus the shipping. I was having trouble finding more of them years ago and gave up. 
When Martin Lofton Of Sunshine Models came out with his BR-40-10 (R-40-10) I bought a stack of decals from him so I don't need the Champs set.
PM me if you want them and we can work something out.

Kind Regards,    

Bryian Sones
Union Pacific Prototype Modeler
Murrieta, CA


On Sunday, February 28, 2021, 05:25:40 AM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Ray

If you can find them - CHAMP HX-11 and CHAMP BRH-340


On 2/28/2021 1:22 AM, Tony Thompson wrote:
Ray Carson wrote:

I currently have a Walthers GACX express reefer that I was doing some modifications to match it with the PFE prototype. The problem is I got carried away and damaged the paint and some of the wood sheath details on the sides. Even though express reefers aren't technically considered freight cars but passenger cars, I was wondering if the PFE cars were actually dark olive like the UP and SP heavyweight cars or just the general Pullman green.

Dark Olive Green.

Also what are some good PFE decals to go with these cars? The Tichy decals are rather off as I look at them.

Not sure what is currently available. 

Tony Thompson


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Red Owl warehouse

Clark Propst
 

I’m taking a minute to glance at the sugar car seals. I’ll write down any initials in the seal numbers as I find them.

 

NP, Holly, ASR?, BED, W, note: groc Fargo, ICT?, SICW, FS, FSR?-SFR?, All entries are one offs, except the NP which there were several 90+ % were just numbers. ? means I’m not sure of the letters.

 

Since finishing this I’ve received several photos and track maps. There was a lumber yard behind the depot. There are several lumber related loads in the book. I think I’ll transcribe them now too. I also have a photo of new 40s era Chevys unloaded at the implement platform by the depot. There are several auto and auto related entries. That is all that’s in the book.

Clark

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: Red Owl warehouse

William Hirt
 

Great Western Sugar built a sugar terminal facility in Western Springs IL in the late 1950s/early 1960s. This is on the CB&Q triple track mainline in the Chicago suburbs. The sugar shipped from this facility came from Great Western's processing facilities in Colorado and Wyoming. So that would be 1,000 mile one way trip. Now by that time the commodity was being shipped in bulk by Airslide or the early PS-2 3-bay Covered Hoppers (especially to a terminal). These definitely influenced the transportation costs and I wonder if the transportation distance issue changed substantially between 1950 and 1960 for commodities like sugar.

Bill Hirt

On 2/27/2021 8:00 PM, np328 wrote:

Not to throw the Red Owl warehouse topic off or head off in a tangent, however with all due respect to "where the sugar comes from” regarding the Hopkins MN warehouse; 
   Sugar is (1) a bulk commodity, (2) it is publicly traded, and should it be cane or beet (3) it is grown in many areas around the US.

Sugar costs are low, low enough that in that the US sugar industry, price supports exist to maintain US sugar independence.  

And because of all of the above - shipping transport costs quickly assume a great importance to final prices when all other costs tend to be either low or stable across large areas. 
Here we have both.

      I dislike greatly the mixing of data across eras, and am aware of this lists cut-off date of 1960, something I very strongly support. However ask that the map introduced by this link be looked at and ask yourself the question; with all these sugar processing options closer to the Hopkins, MN Red Owl warehouse, just south of the Twin Cities or in the Red River Valley, why would one go into MT?             Billings is closer (550-600 miles) to the population center of Denver, CO and seems a more logical destination.  (Wasn't there a large baking consortium there?)


https://sugaralliance.org/us-sugar/sugars-coast-to-coast-reach

_,_._,_


Re: Reweigh dates on freight cars

charlie9
 

As I can best recall, car inspectors would not bad order a loaded car for some minor issues like out of date tare weight, old air date, etc.  When these conditions were detected with the car empty, it would get tagged.
Charlie


Re: Monon 1937 AAR boxcar

Tim O'Connor
 


That is some very impressive truck modeling !! Well done. :-)

I think I have an IMWX (HO scale) kit (not built) in this paint scheme.

Tim O'

On 2/27/2021 6:27 PM, Richard Scott wrote:
Mont Switzer's 2017 Chicagoland RPM presentation motivated me to model a Monon boxcar.  O-scale CIL 9157 began as an Intermountain kit.  I scratchbuilt a new roof walk for it from styrene strips, and I replaced some of the kit's more fragile styrene parts with brass equivalents.  I painted the car with Polly Scale and MicroLux acrylics, and lettered it with Protocraft decals.

The Monon had 450 of these 1937 AAR boxcars, with road numbers 9000-9449.  Pullman-Standard built them in 1941 and 1942, and all rode on National B-1 trucks.  O-scale B-1s are hard to find so I "scratch-bashed" these from 1970s-vintage Atlas Bettendorf trucks.  The Atlas side-frames were molded from high-impact polystyrene so the conversion wasn't difficult.  The attached photos show how I did it.

Stay well,
Dick Scott
 

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Red Owl warehouse

Tim O'Connor
 


Dick, all I can say is -- railroad traffic distances and routes often have nothing to do with the
"shortest path" between two points.

While a TARIFF may specify a rate between A and B, railroads that can connect A & B often
will "sign on" to that tariff (i.e. offer their routing as a shipper option) if they believe that the extra
tonnage can be moved for a very small marginal cost to themselves. Imagine a freight train going
from A to X, and then another from X to B. To the railroad, tacking on an extra carload to those
two freights (i.e. filling out tonnage) is practically FREE. There are many examples of this. Some
of those circuitous routings can DOUBLE (or more) the mileage compared to the shortest path.

The same logic can apply to the tariffs themselves. If a railroad has a constant imbalance of cars
between two points, they could offer RETURN rates to employ otherwise empty cars. Of course
this could be a bit tricky because some shippers might object to paying more than other shippers
if the railroad tries to offer an 'incentive' for one commodity but not to others. But that's what lawyers
are for. :-)

Finally the Rock Island acquired airslide covered hoppers in 1957 that were ASSIGNED to the
Hawaiian cane sugar mill in Crocket California! Obviously the Rock Island had an online customer
who wanted to buy sugar from that mill -- at quite a long distance from California. The loads were
sent via the SP to Tucumcari NM to the Rock Island - not the shortest possible route! But the route
gave SP and RI all of the revenue, which was the point!

Present day shipping is VERY different than it was in the STMFC era.

Tim O'


On 2/27/2021 9:00 PM, np328 wrote:

Not to throw the Red Owl warehouse topic off or head off in a tangent, however with all due respect to "where the sugar comes from” regarding the Hopkins MN warehouse; 
   Sugar is (1) a bulk commodity, (2) it is publicly traded, and should it be cane or beet (3) it is grown in many areas around the US.

Sugar costs are low, low enough that in that the US sugar industry, price supports exist to maintain US sugar independence.  

And because of all of the above - shipping transport costs quickly assume a great importance to final prices when all other costs tend to be either low or stable across large areas. 
Here we have both.

      I dislike greatly the mixing of data across eras, and am aware of this lists cut-off date of 1960, something I very strongly support. However ask that the map introduced by this link be looked at and ask yourself the question; with all these sugar processing options closer to the Hopkins, MN Red Owl warehouse, just south of the Twin Cities or in the Red River Valley, why would one go into MT?             Billings is closer (550-600 miles) to the population center of Denver, CO and seems a more logical destination.  (Wasn't there a large baking consortium there?)


https://sugaralliance.org/us-sugar/sugars-coast-to-coast-reach

  Hold your cursor over the dots on the map for more information.  

    And of the map listings for processing plants – Please, Google up the data of the plant you are interested in locally to see its history and build date. Some plants listed on the link did not exist in the STMFC era, which is why again, I dislike mixing data across extended time frames.

 

Chaska, MN to Hopkins, MN – possibly 20 miles and a single line shipment if M&StL has rights to switch the Red Owl Warehouse. (Chaska had a sugar processing plant that opened in 1906 and operated well through the STMFC era.)

East Grand Forks area to Hopkins - ~300 to 350 miles and if served by GN as the Sanborn map elsewhere shows tracks of this railroad nearby and GN has reciprocal switching rights into this plant off its Hutchinson branch, and then it would also be a single line shipment .
Via NP about the same mileage as NP and M&StL looked to each other as friendly connections. (East Grand Forks plant – opened 1923, Moorhead, MN – 1948, Crookston – 1954)   

Sidney, MT to Hopkins, MN – 600+ miles.  

East Billings to Hopkins - ~ 800 miles NP/Milwaukee (the Milwaukee is local to Hopkins Red Owl warehouse.) Or ~850 miles via NP/M&StL.  

 

I do have revenue freight classified tables for 1953 of my studied railroad however looking, Sugar, syrup, molasses, and candy - are all given in an aggregate figure under manufactured products and as such, not a lot of help.  

 

For more on sugar and sugar price supports look here:

 https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/crops/sugar-sweeteners/background/     Sugar cane listed one third down, beets one half down

                                                                Jim Dick – St. Paul, MN  


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

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