Date   

PRR X31f "Turtle Roof" Box Cars

Bob Chaparro
 

I have several questions about these cars:

 

In what years were they built?

How many were built?

What were their last years in revenue service?

 

Thank you.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Tichy USRA steel rebuilds

Bill Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Ditto … what Steve said.

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On May 17, 2017, at 8:01 PM, 'Steve Sandifer' steve.sandifer@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


I also would like to be on your parts list for the BX 28.

 

Steve. Sandifer

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] 
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 8:48 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Tichy USRA steel rebuilds

 

  

Jared,

 

Ben is right out of the box it is a one kit wonder and not a bad one. There was a Sunshine mini-kit creating the Wabash car and when we do the PMcKY/P&LE car in line we will do the Wabash car as well. 

 

The Santa Fe Bx 28/31 was the subject of a Shake-N-Take kit conversion 2014.3 and we may rerun the parts one more time. 

 

There were several articles by the late Martin Loftin in RMC and there were articles he "produced" to promote his kits in Mainline Modeler, which sparked my fire for rebuilt cars. 

 

Greg Martin 

 

Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean 

 

In a message dated 5/15/2017 3:20:35 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:

  

I am trying to figure out what prototypes the Tichy USRA steel rebuilds can be used to model.  I assume someone out there can help me.  Thanks.

 

Jared Harper

 




Re: Tichy USRA steel rebuilds

Steve SANDIFER
 

I also would like to be on your parts list for the BX 28.

 

Steve. Sandifer

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 8:48 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Tichy USRA steel rebuilds

 

 

Jared,

 

Ben is right out of the box it is a one kit wonder and not a bad one. There was a Sunshine mini-kit creating the Wabash car and when we do the PMcKY/P&LE car in line we will do the Wabash car as well.

 

The Santa Fe Bx 28/31 was the subject of a Shake-N-Take kit conversion 2014.3 and we may rerun the parts one more time.

 

There were several articles by the late Martin Loftin in RMC and there were articles he "produced" to promote his kits in Mainline Modeler, which sparked my fire for rebuilt cars.

 

Greg Martin

 

Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean

 

In a message dated 5/15/2017 3:20:35 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:

 

I am trying to figure out what prototypes the Tichy USRA steel rebuilds can be used to model.  I assume someone out there can help me.  Thanks.

 

Jared Harper

 


Re: Spring TKM is now available

Aley, Jeff A
 

This issue contains “reprints” of several of Ben Hom’s definitive articles on the X29 box car.  For me, that was reason enough to download and save a copy.

 

I have not yet studied the series on Pennsy Gons that is also included.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:11 PM
To: the-keystone-modeler@...; STMFC@...; PRR-Modeling@...; PRRPro@...
Subject: [STMFC] Spring TKM is now available

 

 

Folks,

 

The Spring 2017 issue of the Keystone Modeler, #100, is now available.  This is our 100th issue!  See http://www.prrths.com/newprr_files/newPRRKeystoneModeler.htm

 

Regards,

Bruce

 

Bruce F. Smith

webmaster, PRRT&HS​

 

 


Re: Tichy USRA steel rebuilds

WILLIAM PARDIE
 


An article that has not been mentioned in this thread is Ted Culotta's Essential Freight Car Offering in the July 2004 Railroad Moodel Craftsman issue.  In this article Ted breaks down the Tichy body inot a flat kit in order to add a Red
Caboose roof.  I have done this and the car sits in my pipeline awaiting final details.  At the same time I am doing a Westerfield and BLI model of the NYC USRA box cars.  These two havep;rogressed a little farther than the Tichy kit.

Bill Pardie

On May 16, 2017, at 8:55 AM, Armand Premo arm.p.prem@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

Greg,Add me to the list also Please.Armand Premo

On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 1:51 PM, Andrew Dahm dahminator68@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Hello.  Westerfield Models has available the 2-5-5-5 AT&SF 4 panel ends.  They are Westerfield prat number 3842, are $3.50 per pair and can be ordered through our website secure model store under Detail parts.

Thank you,
Andrew Dahm
Westerfieldmodels@...


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Monday, May 15, 2017, 5:43 PM, Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 



Jared Harper asked:

"I did go to the archives and saw the P&LE reference.  But I guess I am wondering if these could be used to model the ATSF USRA rebuilds?  I have been trying to get hold of the RPC #24 that is supposed to cover rebuilds but cannot find one."

No.  Do not fall into Atlas' trap that all rebuilt boxcars are alike (which is how we got their crappy model). Compared to the prototype ATSF USRA DS rebuilds, the Tichy model is too short in height, has the wrong sides (model has 8 panel vs 10 panel of the prototype), ends (1/5/5/5 vs 2/5/5/5), and underframe (SS vs the fishbelly DS underframe).

With the Sunshine Models kits out of production, your best bet is to go all the way back to Martin Lofton's original approach in his RMC articles - start with a prewar AAR boxcar kit, and graft on new ends, underframe, and sidesills.  More recently, a Cocoa Beach Shake 'n Take project followed this approach.


Ben Hom   







Re: B&O Boxcar 275057

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <rwitt_2000@...> wrote :

On the B&O diagram it lists the builder for the M-26 as "Pullman Car & Mfg Corp" apparently the company's name in the 1920s.

Bob Wit
t====================

The Pullman Co. changed the name of their car building operation to Pullman Car & Manufacturing Corp. in 1924, after they had absorbed Haskell & Barker and become a "full service" car builder, building both passenger and freight cars.

The name changed again to Pullman-Standard Car Manufacturing Co. in 1929 with the merger with Standard Steel Car Co.

More detail here:


Dennis Storzek


Re: B&O Boxcar 275057

rwitt_2000
 

On the B&O diagram it lists the builder for the M-26 as "Pullman Car & Mfg Corp" apparently the company's name in the 1920s.

Bob Witt


Spring TKM is now available

Bruce Smith
 

Folks,

The Spring 2017 issue of the Keystone Modeler, #100, is now available.  This is our 100th issue!  See http://www.prrths.com/newprr_files/newPRRKeystoneModeler.htm

Regards,
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
webmaster, PRRT&HS​




Re: B&O Boxcar 275057

Eric Hansmann
 

While not referenced with the B&O M-26 cars, the CGW also bought cars built by PC&M. On Page 87 & 88 of RPCyc 18, the captions note the CGW cars built by Pullman Car & Manufacturing.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

E Paso, TX

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 2:49 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] B&O Boxcar 275057

 




Eric what builder is PC&M ? I don't recall seeing those initials before.

Tim O'



  M-26               265000-266999        2000 cars       built 1925               PC&M
    Eric Hansmann


Re: B&O Boxcar 275057

Tim O'Connor
 


Eric what builder is PC&M ? I don't recall seeing those initials before.

Tim O'



  M-26               265000-266999        2000 cars       built 1925               PC&M
    Eric Hansmann


Re: Tichy USRA steel rebuilds

Armand Premo
 

Greg,Add me to the list also Please.Armand Premo

On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 1:51 PM, Andrew Dahm dahminator68@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Hello.  Westerfield Models has available the 2-5-5-5 AT&SF 4 panel ends.  They are Westerfield prat number 3842, are $3.50 per pair and can be ordered through our website secure model store under Detail parts.

Thank you,
Andrew Dahm
Westerfieldmodels@...


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Monday, May 15, 2017, 5:43 PM, Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 



Jared Harper asked:

"I did go to the archives and saw the P&LE reference.  But I guess I am wondering if these could be used to model the ATSF USRA rebuilds?  I have been trying to get hold of the RPC #24 that is supposed to cover rebuilds but cannot find one."

No.  Do not fall into Atlas' trap that all rebuilt boxcars are alike (which is how we got their crappy model). Compared to the prototype ATSF USRA DS rebuilds, the Tichy model is too short in height, has the wrong sides (model has 8 panel vs 10 panel of the prototype), ends (1/5/5/5 vs 2/5/5/5), and underframe (SS vs the fishbelly DS underframe).

With the Sunshine Models kits out of production, your best bet is to go all the way back to Martin Lofton's original approach in his RMC articles - start with a prewar AAR boxcar kit, and graft on new ends, underframe, and sidesills.  More recently, a Cocoa Beach Shake 'n Take project followed this approach.


Ben Hom   



Re: B&O Boxcar 275057

Eric Hansmann
 

Railway Prototype Cyclopedia Volume 18 has probably the most up-to-date info on B&O M-26 class and other cars built to the 1923 ARA proposed standards.

 

All of these car series listed below had a 5-foot kingpin striker distance. The first M-26 series had a truck center distance of 32-foot, 6-inches. The M-26a and M-26b cars had a truck center distance of 32-foot, 3-inches, but still the 5-foot kingpin striker distance.

 

M-26               265000-266999        2000 cars       built 1925                  PC&M

M-26b             267000-267999        1000 cars       built 2-3/1926            BSC   

M-26a             268000-268999        1000 cars       built 1925-1926        SSC

M-26a             269000-269999        1000 cars       built 8-9/1926            BSC

M-26a             270000-270499        500 cars        built 12/26 – 1/27     SSC

M-26a             270500-270999        500 cars         built 1927                   ACF

M-26a             271000-271499        500 cars         built 1927                  PSC

 

 

The M-26c class all had a 5-foot, 6-inch kingpin striker distance

 

The M-26d and M-26e classes had a 5-foot, 10.75-inch kingpin striker distance and the Duryea Cushion Underframes.

 

At least that’s the data as it is presented in RPCyc 18.

 

 

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 9:49 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] B&O Boxcar 275057

 




Yes, but the B&O M-26 ARA cars had 5 foot spacing - according to Chris Barkan,
who is (or was) something of an expert on the B&O. What do you say, Bob Witt?

To quote from Chris's email (Feb 2, 1998 to the old freightcars list)

   Classes M-26D and M-26E had the Duryea.  The RC car is going to be lettered as
   an M-26A which had the early ARA UF with 5' kingpin to striker spacing and the
   crossbearers located between the door and the body bolsters.  The M-26 and
   M-26B also had the early ARA UF.  The M-26C had the "intermediate" ARA UF with
   5'6" kingpin to striker spacing and the crossbearers located as above.

Tim O'Connor



Tim O'Connor wrote:
"The M-26 had the early ARA underframe with 5 foot from bolster kingpin to striker distance (most freight cars use 5 foot 6 inch) which places the wheels closer to the end of the car."

Actually, it's the other way around.  Class X29 had the 5 ft spacing, while most of the ARA cars had the 5 ft 6 in spacing.
http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=x29_x29a.gif&sel=box&sz=sm&fr=

If length over strikers in 42 ft 3 in, distance between kingpins is 32 ft 3 in, kingpin to striker distance is (42 ft 3 in - 32 ft 3 in)/2 = 5 ft



Re: Tichy USRA steel rebuilds

dahminator68
 

Hello.  Westerfield Models has available the 2-5-5-5 AT&SF 4 panel ends.  They are Westerfield prat number 3842, are $3.50 per pair and can be ordered through our website secure model store under Detail parts.
Thank you,
Andrew Dahm
Westerfieldmodels@...


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Monday, May 15, 2017, 5:43 PM, Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] wrote:

 



Jared Harper asked:

"I did go to the archives and saw the P&LE reference.  But I guess I am wondering if these could be used to model the ATSF USRA rebuilds?  I have been trying to get hold of the RPC #24 that is supposed to cover rebuilds but cannot find one."

No.  Do not fall into Atlas' trap that all rebuilt boxcars are alike (which is how we got their crappy model). Compared to the prototype ATSF USRA DS rebuilds, the Tichy model is too short in height, has the wrong sides (model has 8 panel vs 10 panel of the prototype), ends (1/5/5/5 vs 2/5/5/5), and underframe (SS vs the fishbelly DS underframe).

With the Sunshine Models kits out of production, your best bet is to go all the way back to Martin Lofton's original approach in his RMC articles - start with a prewar AAR boxcar kit, and graft on new ends, underframe, and sidesills.  More recently, a Cocoa Beach Shake 'n Take project followed this approach.


Ben Hom   


Re: Tichy USRA steel rebuilds

midrly
 

I've used the Tichy steel sided rebuild kit for a CN 470000-470249 series steel boxcar, rebuilt by the GTW's Port Huron Shops in 1936.  The earlier cars in the series used a Hutchins roof, but later cars (470150-470249?) used the raised panel roof included in the kit.  The underframe will need changing--a simple workaround is to use Accurail's underframe for their 4300-series kits.

I understand that the GTW had similar cars.

Steve Lucas.


Re: Tichy USRA steel rebuilds

golden1014
 

TGreg, I too would be interested in a set of parts for the rebuilt ATSF box car.

John Golden
Albersbach, Germany


Re: B&O Boxcar 275057

Tim O'Connor
 


Yes, but the B&O M-26 ARA cars had 5 foot spacing - according to Chris Barkan,
who is (or was) something of an expert on the B&O. What do you say, Bob Witt?

To quote from Chris's email (Feb 2, 1998 to the old freightcars list)

   Classes M-26D and M-26E had the Duryea.  The RC car is going to be lettered as
   an M-26A which had the early ARA UF with 5' kingpin to striker spacing and the
   crossbearers located between the door and the body bolsters.  The M-26 and
   M-26B also had the early ARA UF.  The M-26C had the "intermediate" ARA UF with
   5'6" kingpin to striker spacing and the crossbearers located as above.

Tim O'Connor


Tim O'Connor wrote:
"The M-26 had the early ARA underframe with 5 foot from bolster kingpin to striker distance (most freight cars use 5 foot 6 inch) which places the wheels closer to the end of the car."

Actually, it's the other way around.  Class X29 had the 5 ft spacing, while most of the ARA cars had the 5 ft 6 in spacing.
http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=x29_x29a.gif&sel=box&sz=sm&fr=

If length over strikers in 42 ft 3 in, distance between kingpins is 32 ft 3 in, kingpin to striker distance is (42 ft 3 in - 32 ft 3 in)/2 = 5 ft


Re: Tichy USRA steel rebuilds

Jared Harper
 

Greg,

Thanks!  I apparently missed the call for participants on the SF Bx-28/31 conversion.  I would have participated.  If you re-run the parts let me know.

Jared Harper


---In STMFC@..., <tgregmrtn@...> wrote :

Jared,
 
Ben is right out of the box it is a one kit wonder and not a bad one. There was a Sunshine mini-kit creating the Wabash car and when we do the PMcKY/P&LE car in line we will do the Wabash car as well.
 
The Santa Fe Bx 28/31 was the subject of a Shake-N-Take kit conversion 2014.3 and we may rerun the parts one more time.
 
There were several articles by the late Martin Loftin in RMC and there were articles he "produced" to promote his kits in Mainline Modeler, which sparked my fire for rebuilt cars.
 
Greg Martin
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 

In a message dated 5/15/2017 3:20:35 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:
 

I am trying to figure out what prototypes the Tichy USRA steel rebuilds can be used to model.  I assume someone out there can help me.  Thanks.


Jared Harper



Re: B&O Boxcar 275057

Benjamin Hom
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
"The M-26 had the early ARA underframe with 5 foot from bolster kingpin to striker distance (most freight cars use 5 foot 6 inch) which places the wheels closer to the end of the car."

Actually, it's the other way around.  Class X29 had the 5 ft spacing, while most of the ARA cars had the 5 ft 6 in spacing.

If length over strikers in 42 ft 3 in, distance between kingpins is 32 ft 3 in, kingpin to striker distance is
(42 ft 3 in - 32 ft 3 in)/2 = 5 ft

"All of the B&O M-26 variations except for the M-26b used the 1923 ARA body rivet pattern."
This is true.  The M-26b was a direct copy of Class X29 down to the ladder/lower grab arrangement to the right of the car side and kingpin to bolster spacing.

One other note - the photo dramatically shows the main spotting feature of the Duryea cushion underframe - the centersills and brake system components, which pop out on the wintery background.  (Everyone brings up the extended couple pockets, but that detail's more difficult to see compared to the "extra" stuff hanging below the car.)


Ben Hom


Re: Weathered Roof - PFE Reefer

Tony Thompson
 

Schuyler, car cement was often applied to roofs with a string mop. I think your suggestion of "not too neatly " would be an understatement.
Tony Thompson 


On May 16, 2017, at 10:31 AM, 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

I respectfully yield to Dennis’ superior explanation. However, to Mr. Townsend’s suggestion: Perhaps with some fairly substantial overspray? I would suggest that it was probably brush applied, and none too neatly, for that matter.

Schuyler

---In STMFC@..., wrote :

Interesting, Bob. I’d speculate that the dark area around the ribs is condensation. The ribs are exposed to the cold inside the reefer, and are comparatively cool on the exterior...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/railphotoart/25558915051/sizes/k/
======================

Interesting speculation, Schuyler, but one problem... Since the SRECo panel roofs don't use carlines, there is nothing under the "rib" that penetrates any deeper into the insulation than the rest of the roof, therefore no reason for the ribs to be colder. The carline structure is replaced in these roofs by the combination of the upstanding flange on each edge of the roof panel, riveted to the U shaped pressed steel seam cap. Because of the rivet penetrations on the sides of the seam caps, some roads specified car cement on the seam caps to try to head off any leaks. To me the photo appears to show an additional application of fresh car cement on an older roof.

Perhaps Tony can comment on PFE's roof maintenance practices.

Dennis Storzek




Re: Weathered Roof - PFE Reefer

Tony Thompson
 

PFE used the term for frames riveted up from commercial shapes.
Tony Thompson 


On May 16, 2017, at 10:42 AM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 


Thanks Dan.

I've never really understood the terminology - "built up"?

I know some cars had Bettendorf underframes (single beam), while
others had twin-beam center sills with two different styles of
cross bearers, yes?

But what is meant by "built up"?

Tim



Tim O'Connor wrote:
My only question is - is the reefer an R-30-21, or an R-40-21 ?



 All that is certain from the photo is that this car has a built up under frame. The car can be
 either a 30 or 40 ton frame. Without being able to see the side info clearly, tonnage can't
 be determined but that is largely irrelevant. Only that the car has a built up under frame is
 important.

 I have copies of all the relevant car cards from CSRM. Few from the -18/19/21 class cars
 exist. Haven't dug them out to see if this car is there but I highly doubt it.

 Dan Smith

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