Date   

Re: Tichy USRA steel rebuilds

midrly
 

I've used the Tichy steel sided rebuild kit for a CN 470000-470249 series steel boxcar, rebuilt by the GTW's Port Huron Shops in 1936.  The earlier cars in the series used a Hutchins roof, but later cars (470150-470249?) used the raised panel roof included in the kit.  The underframe will need changing--a simple workaround is to use Accurail's underframe for their 4300-series kits.

I understand that the GTW had similar cars.

Steve Lucas.


Re: Tichy USRA steel rebuilds

golden1014
 

TGreg, I too would be interested in a set of parts for the rebuilt ATSF box car.

John Golden
Albersbach, Germany


Re: B&O Boxcar 275057

Tim O'Connor
 


Yes, but the B&O M-26 ARA cars had 5 foot spacing - according to Chris Barkan,
who is (or was) something of an expert on the B&O. What do you say, Bob Witt?

To quote from Chris's email (Feb 2, 1998 to the old freightcars list)

   Classes M-26D and M-26E had the Duryea.  The RC car is going to be lettered as
   an M-26A which had the early ARA UF with 5' kingpin to striker spacing and the
   crossbearers located between the door and the body bolsters.  The M-26 and
   M-26B also had the early ARA UF.  The M-26C had the "intermediate" ARA UF with
   5'6" kingpin to striker spacing and the crossbearers located as above.

Tim O'Connor


Tim O'Connor wrote:
"The M-26 had the early ARA underframe with 5 foot from bolster kingpin to striker distance (most freight cars use 5 foot 6 inch) which places the wheels closer to the end of the car."

Actually, it's the other way around.  Class X29 had the 5 ft spacing, while most of the ARA cars had the 5 ft 6 in spacing.
http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=x29_x29a.gif&sel=box&sz=sm&fr=

If length over strikers in 42 ft 3 in, distance between kingpins is 32 ft 3 in, kingpin to striker distance is (42 ft 3 in - 32 ft 3 in)/2 = 5 ft


Re: Tichy USRA steel rebuilds

Jared Harper
 

Greg,

Thanks!  I apparently missed the call for participants on the SF Bx-28/31 conversion.  I would have participated.  If you re-run the parts let me know.

Jared Harper


---In STMFC@..., <tgregmrtn@...> wrote :

Jared,
 
Ben is right out of the box it is a one kit wonder and not a bad one. There was a Sunshine mini-kit creating the Wabash car and when we do the PMcKY/P&LE car in line we will do the Wabash car as well.
 
The Santa Fe Bx 28/31 was the subject of a Shake-N-Take kit conversion 2014.3 and we may rerun the parts one more time.
 
There were several articles by the late Martin Loftin in RMC and there were articles he "produced" to promote his kits in Mainline Modeler, which sparked my fire for rebuilt cars.
 
Greg Martin
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 

In a message dated 5/15/2017 3:20:35 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:
 

I am trying to figure out what prototypes the Tichy USRA steel rebuilds can be used to model.  I assume someone out there can help me.  Thanks.


Jared Harper



Re: B&O Boxcar 275057

Benjamin Hom
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
"The M-26 had the early ARA underframe with 5 foot from bolster kingpin to striker distance (most freight cars use 5 foot 6 inch) which places the wheels closer to the end of the car."

Actually, it's the other way around.  Class X29 had the 5 ft spacing, while most of the ARA cars had the 5 ft 6 in spacing.

If length over strikers in 42 ft 3 in, distance between kingpins is 32 ft 3 in, kingpin to striker distance is
(42 ft 3 in - 32 ft 3 in)/2 = 5 ft

"All of the B&O M-26 variations except for the M-26b used the 1923 ARA body rivet pattern."
This is true.  The M-26b was a direct copy of Class X29 down to the ladder/lower grab arrangement to the right of the car side and kingpin to bolster spacing.

One other note - the photo dramatically shows the main spotting feature of the Duryea cushion underframe - the centersills and brake system components, which pop out on the wintery background.  (Everyone brings up the extended couple pockets, but that detail's more difficult to see compared to the "extra" stuff hanging below the car.)


Ben Hom


Re: Weathered Roof - PFE Reefer

Tony Thompson
 

Schuyler, car cement was often applied to roofs with a string mop. I think your suggestion of "not too neatly " would be an understatement.
Tony Thompson 


On May 16, 2017, at 10:31 AM, 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

I respectfully yield to Dennis’ superior explanation. However, to Mr. Townsend’s suggestion: Perhaps with some fairly substantial overspray? I would suggest that it was probably brush applied, and none too neatly, for that matter.

Schuyler

---In STMFC@..., wrote :

Interesting, Bob. I’d speculate that the dark area around the ribs is condensation. The ribs are exposed to the cold inside the reefer, and are comparatively cool on the exterior...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/railphotoart/25558915051/sizes/k/
======================

Interesting speculation, Schuyler, but one problem... Since the SRECo panel roofs don't use carlines, there is nothing under the "rib" that penetrates any deeper into the insulation than the rest of the roof, therefore no reason for the ribs to be colder. The carline structure is replaced in these roofs by the combination of the upstanding flange on each edge of the roof panel, riveted to the U shaped pressed steel seam cap. Because of the rivet penetrations on the sides of the seam caps, some roads specified car cement on the seam caps to try to head off any leaks. To me the photo appears to show an additional application of fresh car cement on an older roof.

Perhaps Tony can comment on PFE's roof maintenance practices.

Dennis Storzek




Re: Weathered Roof - PFE Reefer

Tony Thompson
 

PFE used the term for frames riveted up from commercial shapes.
Tony Thompson 


On May 16, 2017, at 10:42 AM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 


Thanks Dan.

I've never really understood the terminology - "built up"?

I know some cars had Bettendorf underframes (single beam), while
others had twin-beam center sills with two different styles of
cross bearers, yes?

But what is meant by "built up"?

Tim



Tim O'Connor wrote:
My only question is - is the reefer an R-30-21, or an R-40-21 ?



 All that is certain from the photo is that this car has a built up under frame. The car can be
 either a 30 or 40 ton frame. Without being able to see the side info clearly, tonnage can't
 be determined but that is largely irrelevant. Only that the car has a built up under frame is
 important.

 I have copies of all the relevant car cards from CSRM. Few from the -18/19/21 class cars
 exist. Haven't dug them out to see if this car is there but I highly doubt it.

 Dan Smith


Re: Tichy USRA steel rebuilds

Aley, Jeff A
 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 7:40 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Tichy USRA steel rebuilds

 

 

Jared,

 

                If my memory is not faulty, there were some articles in RMJ about these cars (search index.mrmag.com for the issues).  And again, if I recall correctly, those articles are actually still available online for free at Trainlife.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 5:10 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Tichy USRA steel rebuilds

 

 

I did go to the archives and saw the P&LE reference.but I guess I am wondering if these could be used to model the ATSF USRA rebuilds?  I have been trying to get hold of the RPC #24 that is supposed to cover rebuilds but cannot find one.

 

Thanks!

 

Jared Harper



---In STMFC@..., <b.hom@...> wrote :

Jared Harper asked:
"I am trying to figure out what prototypes the Tichy USRA steel rebuilds can be used to model. I assume someone out there can help me. Thanks."

Did you search the group archives? This is certainly not the first time this model was discussed, and I wrote up some detailed answers to this question.

Quick answer - out of the box, this models rebuilds of USRA SS boxcars done by PMcK&Y, later P&LE. With new ends, it can be used to model Wabash rebuilds, and Sunshine sold a mini-kit for the conversion.


Ben Hom


Re: Tichy USRA steel rebuilds

Greg Martin
 

Jared,
 
Ben is right out of the box it is a one kit wonder and not a bad one. There was a Sunshine mini-kit creating the Wabash car and when we do the PMcKY/P&LE car in line we will do the Wabash car as well.
 
The Santa Fe Bx 28/31 was the subject of a Shake-N-Take kit conversion 2014.3 and we may rerun the parts one more time.
 
There were several articles by the late Martin Loftin in RMC and there were articles he "produced" to promote his kits in Mainline Modeler, which sparked my fire for rebuilt cars.
 
Greg Martin
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 

In a message dated 5/15/2017 3:20:35 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:
 

I am trying to figure out what prototypes the Tichy USRA steel rebuilds can be used to model.  I assume someone out there can help me.  Thanks.


Jared Harper



Re: Tichy USRA steel rebuilds

Aley, Jeff A
 

Jared,

 

                If my memory is not faulty, there were some articles in RMJ about these cars (search index.mrmag.com for the issues).  And again, if I recall correctly, those articles are actually still available online for free at Trainlife.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 5:10 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Tichy USRA steel rebuilds

 

 

I did go to the archives and saw the P&LE reference.but I guess I am wondering if these could be used to model the ATSF USRA rebuilds?  I have been trying to get hold of the RPC #24 that is supposed to cover rebuilds but cannot find one.

 

Thanks!

 

Jared Harper



---In STMFC@..., <b.hom@...> wrote :

Jared Harper asked:
"I am trying to figure out what prototypes the Tichy USRA steel rebuilds can be used to model. I assume someone out there can help me. Thanks."

Did you search the group archives? This is certainly not the first time this model was discussed, and I wrote up some detailed answers to this question.

Quick answer - out of the box, this models rebuilds of USRA SS boxcars done by PMcK&Y, later P&LE. With new ends, it can be used to model Wabash rebuilds, and Sunshine sold a mini-kit for the conversion.


Ben Hom


Re: B&O Boxcar 275057

Tim O'Connor
 

Bob

It's an M-26. The M-26 had the early ARA underframe with 5 foot from bolster kingpin
to striker distance (most freight cars use 5 foot 6 inch) which places the wheels closer
to the end of the car.

All of the B&O M-26 variations except for the M-26b used the 1923 ARA body rivet pattern.

So, no, it's not an X29 clone. If anything you could say the X29 is a clone of the ARA design
since the first X29's appeared in 1924. :-)

Tim O'Connor





https://www.flickr.com/photos/railphotoart/24148138943/sizes/k/

Caption: Eastbound Toledo, Peoria and Western Railway local no. 24 crosses frozen creek near Fairbury, Illinois, in February 1960. Photograph by J. Parker Lamb 2015, Center for Railroad Photography and Art. Lamb-01-065-03

Is this an early X-29 clone?

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Emery Boards (was Pan Pastels)

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I use emery boards, and highly value the fact that they can be cut into narrower shapes to get around objects, such as sanding down the filler I’ve used to fill a joint on a brass roof and not have to remove the horns that are mounted right next to that joint. And as Tim says, they now come in a wide variety of grits.



Schuyler



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 4:42 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Emery Boards (was Pan Pastels)





Soft materials such as brass, solder, and plastic do indeed clog files. Before filing soft material,

I fill the file with chalk, regular blackboard chalk. The chalk will allow the file to work but

will make it much easier to clean afterwards.

Chuck Peck



On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 1:11 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@comcast.net [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:




I use a brass "bristle" brush and it cleans the files just fine. I guess if one got really
gunked up I'd take it outside for a grit blast. But I also use emery boards, and the newer
brands of foam-core files that come in many shapes and levels of abrasion from 60 to 600...

Tim O'Connor




I have used a file card, but it never got all the gunk out and eventually the files were ruined. Emery boards are much cheaper than new files. They are also handy for tight spaces, especially for cleaning out narrow slots.


Yours Aye,

Garth Groff







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Weathered Roof - PFE Reefer

Tim O'Connor
 


Thanks Dan.

I've never really understood the terminology - "built up"?

I know some cars had Bettendorf underframes (single beam), while
others had twin-beam center sills with two different styles of
cross bearers, yes?

But what is meant by "built up"?

Tim



Tim O'Connor wrote:
My only question is - is the reefer an R-30-21, or an R-40-21 ?



 All that is certain from the photo is that this car has a built up under frame. The car can be
 either a 30 or 40 ton frame. Without being able to see the side info clearly, tonnage can't
 be determined but that is largely irrelevant. Only that the car has a built up under frame is
 important.

 I have copies of all the relevant car cards from CSRM. Few from the -18/19/21 class cars
 exist. Haven't dug them out to see if this car is there but I highly doubt it.

 Dan Smith


Re: B&O Boxcar 275057

Benjamin Hom
 

Bob Chaparro asked:
"Another photo from the Center for Railroad Photography &
Art:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/railphotoart/24148138943/sizes/k/

Caption: "Eastbound Toledo, Peoria and Western Railway local no. 24 crosses
frozen creek near Fairbury, Illinois, in February 1960.
Photograph by J. Parker Lamb, © 2015, Center for Railroad Photography and Art.
Lamb-01-065-03"

Is this an early X-29 clone?"

NO DASHES IN PRR CAR CLASSES.

Not sure where you get the characterization "early". B&O 275057 is a Class M-26D ARA design boxcar built 1928-1930 AFTER the initial Class X29 cars were built in 1924.

Hindsight being 20/20, I regret using the term "clone" 20+ years ago as it glosses over many details. We now know the differences in detail between these cars and the X29 (side sheet and rivet patterns, bolster to striker spacing, underframes).


Ben Hom


Re: Weathered Roof - PFE Reefer

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I respectfully yield to Dennis’ superior explanation. However, to Mr. Townsend’s suggestion: Perhaps with some fairly substantial overspray? I would suggest that it was probably brush applied, and none too neatly, for that matter.



Schuyler


---In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote :

Interesting, Bob. I’d speculate that the dark area around the ribs is condensation. The ribs are exposed to the cold inside the reefer, and are comparatively cool on the exterior...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/railphotoart/25558915051/sizes/k/
======================



Interesting speculation, Schuyler, but one problem... Since the SRECo panel roofs don't use carlines, there is nothing under the "rib" that penetrates any deeper into the insulation than the rest of the roof, therefore no reason for the ribs to be colder. The carline structure is replaced in these roofs by the combination of the upstanding flange on each edge of the roof panel, riveted to the U shaped pressed steel seam cap. Because of the rivet penetrations on the sides of the seam caps, some roads specified car cement on the seam caps to try to head off any leaks. To me the photo appears to show an additional application of fresh car cement on an older roof.





Perhaps Tony can comment on PFE's roof maintenance practices.





Dennis Storzek







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


B&O Boxcar 275057

thecitrusbelt@...
 

Another photo from the Center for Railroad Photography & Art:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/railphotoart/24148138943/sizes/k/

 

Caption: " Eastbound Toledo, Peoria and Western Railway local no. 24 crosses frozen creek near Fairbury, Illinois, in February 1960. Photograph by J. Parker Lamb, © 2015, Center for Railroad Photography and Art. Lamb-01-065-03"

 

Is this an early X-29 clone?

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Weathered Roof - PFE Reefer

 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

My only question is - is the reefer an R-30-21, or an R-40-21 ?

Tim,

All that is certain from the photo is that this car has a built up under frame. The car can be
either a 30 or 40 ton frame. Without being able to see the side info clearly, tonnage can't
be determined but that is largely irrelevant. Only that the car has a built up under frame is
important.

I have copies of all the relevant car cards from CSRM. Few from the -18/19/21 class cars
exist. Haven't dug them out to see if this car is there but I highly doubt it.

Dan Smith


Re: Weathered Roof - PFE Reefer

Tim O'Connor
 

Rufus

PFE R-30 & R-40 rebuilds were often in mixed series - with 30 and 40
ton cars (different underframes) in the same number series.

So yes, I agree it's 65327. But the question remains. :-)

Tim





Looks like PFE 65327

Rufus Cone
Bozeman, MT

On 5/15/2017 2:22 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] wrote:
 


My only question is - is the reefer an R-30-21, or an R-40-21 ?

Tim O'Connor


Re: Tichy USRA steel rebuilds

Benjamin Hom
 



Jared Harper asked:

"I did go to the archives and saw the P&LE reference.  But I guess I am wondering if these could be used to model the ATSF USRA rebuilds?  I have been trying to get hold of the RPC #24 that is supposed to cover rebuilds but cannot find one."

No.  Do not fall into Atlas' trap that all rebuilt boxcars are alike (which is how we got their crappy model). Compared to the prototype ATSF USRA DS rebuilds, the Tichy model is too short in height, has the wrong sides (model has 8 panel vs 10 panel of the prototype), ends (1/5/5/5 vs 2/5/5/5), and underframe (SS vs the fishbelly DS underframe).

With the Sunshine Models kits out of production, your best bet is to go all the way back to Martin Lofton's original approach in his RMC articles - start with a prewar AAR boxcar kit, and graft on new ends, underframe, and sidesills.  More recently, a Cocoa Beach Shake 'n Take project followed this approach.


Ben Hom   


Re: Tichy USRA steel rebuilds

Jared Harper
 

I did go to the archives and saw the P&LE reference.but I guess I am wondering if these could be used to model the ATSF USRA rebuilds?  I have been trying to get hold of the RPC #24 that is supposed to cover rebuilds but cannot find one.

Thanks!

Jared Harper


---In STMFC@..., <b.hom@...> wrote :

Jared Harper asked:
"I am trying to figure out what prototypes the Tichy USRA steel rebuilds can be used to model. I assume someone out there can help me. Thanks."

Did you search the group archives? This is certainly not the first time this model was discussed, and I wrote up some detailed answers to this question.

Quick answer - out of the box, this models rebuilds of USRA SS boxcars done by PMcK&Y, later P&LE. With new ends, it can be used to model Wabash rebuilds, and Sunshine sold a mini-kit for the conversion.


Ben Hom

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