Re: Don't be chicken

Douglas Harding

As I have one photo of a poultry car with a sign saying a load of pigeons, it is quite possible the reference to 4000 birds was pigeons not chickens, certainly not turkeys.

Anyone old enough to remember grandma packing the chicken coop to take them to market in town? I have a vague memory, and think the coop was stuffed full. They were in there tight, but the trip was short.

Doug Harding

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 9, 2017 2:56 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Don't be chicken

---In STMFC@..., <doug.harding@...> wrote :

I saw one report that indicated 4000 birds per car. 128 cages would be 31 birds per cage.

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

Given the ORER info I cited of 1760 Square Feet of coop space, each coop (cage, compartment, whatever) would be 13.75 sq.ft., or just under 2000 square inches. Divide that by 31 birds, and each bird gets 64 square inches, or about an 8" square to roost in. Tight, but doable. At least they won't fall down due to slack runs, etc.

Remember, chickens of that era didn't have our present day obesity problems :-)

Dennis Storzek

Re: St. Louis RPM Vendors and Historical Societies

Bill Welch

Be sure to specify it is for the RPM because some of the rooms are blocked specifically for this event.

Bill Welch

Re: Don't be chicken

Dennis Storzek

---In STMFC@..., <doug.harding@...> wrote :

I saw one report that indicated 4000 birds per car. 128 cages would be 31 birds per cage.

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

Given the ORER info I cited of 1760 Square Feet of coop space, each coop (cage, compartment, whatever) would be 13.75 sq.ft., or just under 2000 square inches. Divide that by 31 birds, and each bird gets 64 square inches, or about an 8" square to roost in. Tight, but doable. At least they won't fall down due to slack runs, etc.

Remember, chickens of that era didn't have our present day obesity problems :-)

Dennis Storzek

Re: Don't be chicken

Douglas Harding

Don and all, the poultry car in St Louis, for which I have an interior photo, had cages built into the car structure. There was no “shelf” on which you slid a chicken coop. Which means the chickens were loaded by hand. It is possible the chicken coup was carried into the center walkway and birds transferred from coop to cage. The walkway looks to be 30” in width, not 24”. There were end doors, but it is quite possible the birds were carried through the attendants room, as most photos show vehicles pulled up to the attendants door.

Now some car designs may have been set to load/stack chicken coops. But I have not seen photos that would suggest coops were loaded on the cars. I do have one photo of an ACF car, lettered for FC Brown Company, that appears to be one giant bird cage. Think of a stockcar covered with chicken wire instead of slats. Perhaps it was setup to stack chicken coops inside. I don’t know as the car is empty. The car was built in 1904 and was numbered 104. I has no center attendants room.

The typical poultry car was divided into two compartments, with attendants room in the middle. Each end/compartment had 8 levels, of 4 cages per level, per side. IE 32 cages per side, per compartment. Thus 128 cages per car. The capacity of each cage would depend upon the size of the bird. Pidgeons are much smaller than turkeys. I saw one report that indicated 4000 birds per car. 128 cages would be 31 birds per cage.

Doug Harding

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 9, 2017 10:40 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Don't be chicken

---In STMFC@..., <atsfus@...> wrote :

On 5/8/2017 2:23 PM, destorzek@... [STMFC] wrote:

for a total of 128 compartments, for a grand total of 2,000, maybe 2,500 birds per car.

I'm misunderstanding something here.  Are we saying they would have to load 2-2.5K chickens using a 24" wide passage way?  Seems like that would take a long time.  I'm picturing in my mind two birds in each hand, opening and closing each cage, etc.

` `
` `
`    That's what I had wondered for some years as well, Jon, until the comment was made that what we are seeing in the cars were crates loaded onto  rails or racks. That makes sense. The standard chicken crate that I am familiar with is roughly 4 ft. long, 3 ft. wide and 1 1/2 ft. high with a wooden hinged opening near the center of the top. Can't recall how many birds were put in each crate but it wold obviously be easier to load a crate off of the car and then place the entire crate onto racks built into the car, probably on crate on each side of the central aisle but how many on top of one another I don't know.`
`Cordially, Don Valentine`

` `

Re: Old Athearn Dome Height

Jon Miller

On 5/9/2017 11:06 AM, mguill1224@... [STMFC] wrote:
old Globe and Athearn metal tank cars

This is old memory as I don't have my old metal Athearn handy but I think the Globe and Athearn were different cars.  Never had a Globe.  I seem to remember that at least the dome on the metal Athearn was the same as the plastic one.

```--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS```

Re: Don't be chicken

Dennis Storzek

It sounds like we are talking about two different business models here. The Southern Ry. example presented by George Eichelberger sounds like a bulk movement of birds for a single customer, likely the consignee, perhaps a packing house. It is possible the consignee owned the coops, and distributed them to farmers who were under contract to raise chickens for them. Ike says the Sou. cars have no racks or coops, although it is unclear to me if they had the compartment for the attendant.

The way the Live Poultry Transit Co. business is being explained, it sounds like the car was either leased or assigned to the attendant, who arranged to have it moved from station to station, collecting birds from local farmers as he went, until he either ran out of room or birds offered for sale, then arranged for the car to head to market. Under this system, returning coops would be a nightmare.

I looked up the LPTX listing in the Feb. 1929 ORER; at that time they had 2200 cars, 35'-10" IL, 9'-6" IH, 9'-11" IW, capacity 1760 sq.ft. of coop space, 20,000 pounds of poultry. It firther states, "Each of these cars contains 128 permanent coops." It looks like each permanent coop was about 3'-6" x 3'-9" x 131/2" high.

Dennis Storzek

Re: Old Athearn Dome Height

I too like the old Globe and Athearn metal tank cars.  I have a few.  But I do not have a two-dome Globe tank car.  I would like to have one – either GATX, UTLX or SHPX.  Hugh T Guillaume

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

Re: Stripping an Accurail boxcar

Jeffrey White

David,

Which series box car is it? I have several undecs in my unbuilt kits stash.  I would trade you an undec for your car if I have the right one.

Jeff White

Alma, IL

On 5/8/2017 9:41 PM, 'David Jobe, Sr.' tangerine_flyer@... [STMFC] wrote:

Unfortunately, 91% Isopropyl alcohol barely touches the paint.  It did get most of the lettering though.

David Jobe, Sr.

Saint Ann, Missouri

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2017 7:37 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Stripping an Accurail boxcar

Have you tried 91% Isopropyl alcohol?

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

On May 8, 2017, at 6:30 PM, 'David North' david.north@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Hi Andrew,

Because the undec version of this series is out of stock at all our suppliers.

Cheers

Dave

Re: Stripping an Accurail boxcar

I just used 91% Isopropyl alcohol to completely strip an early 1980's paint job off an Athearn steel side reefer. I used cotton buds (Q-tips) to puddle it on. An old toothbrush also helps getting in the cast ladder rungs and other crannies.  I also use Testors ELO when removing paint but for this car it seemed to attack the old plastic on a test inside the car body.

Part of my time retirement project for fun rebuilding old Athearn and other 1970-80's reefers instead of just buying new IMH versions.

Ken

Re: price reduction for Tungsten weights- a source

thecitrusbelt@...

Just be sure to purchase Tungsten in pellet form. This is not a material you would want to cut from bar stock. The material is very, very hard.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: Don't be chicken

Jon Miller

On 5/9/2017 8:40 AM, riverman_vt@... [STMFC] wrote:
`until the comment was made`

Don,

Loading external make sense but from where, ends or sides?  Or am I still not understanding.

```--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS```

Re: Real wood roof walks

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)

Hi List Members,

I've been reading this conversation with interest.

While my efforts do not compare with those of the experts on this list, I will offer my modest attempt. This all came about by accident - I was running on a club layout, and a derailment dropped this PRR Express X29 boxcar about 8 feet (actual feet, not scale feet) to the floor. I repaired the damage, but the paint on the roofwalk boards was partially scraped off in the fall. So I repainted with fresh paint and called these - what else - replacement boards.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4180/33639439793_fa15b5787d_o.jpg

As you can see, the effect is quite convincing, and this is in Nscale!

Claus Schlund

(No subject)

Richard Townsend

I have at hand a selection of "bulletins" from the Colorado & Southern from the 1930s through the 1950s. They generally are one or two sentences and refer to things like a new siding being in place, specific operating instructions, and the like. One I am interested in following up on is from November 11, 1936, and says, "Trains handling Great Northern dump cars loaded with iron ore must not exceed a speed of 35 miles per hour." My question is, what would a "Great Northern dump car" have been in 1936?

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR

Re: St. Louis RPM Vendors and Historical Societies

Daniel Kohlberg

Clark's e-mail is a little light on specifics, but I just checked, and the Hilton Doubletree in Collinsville, IL still has availability of the St. Louis RPM Rate of 2 Queen beds for \$99. But you do have to call their number, and you do have to mention RPM.

All of this is listed on the St. Louis RPM Website:
http://icg.home.mindspring.com/rpm/stlrpm.htm

Specifically, the St. Louis RPM Hotel Information for the Doubletree and all other nearby hotels:
http://home.mindspring.com/~icg/rpm/STLRPMHotel.pdf

Everyone likes their own brands, pricing etc, but there are still beds available. But I do agree with the general idea of not waiting until the last minute.

Thanks,
Dan Kohlberg

-----Original Message-----

From: "cepropst@q.com [STMFC]"

Sent: May 9, 2017 8:59 AM

To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [STMFC] Re: St. Louis RPM Vendors and Historical Societies

Yesterday I called four hotels before I was able to reserve two double bed
rooms. Three were sold out, one was over booked. Single bed rooms were still
available I guess. Don’t wait much longer to book. This meet is getting out of
hand ; ))
Clark
Propst
Mason City Iowa

Re: Don't be chicken

riverman_vt@...

---In STMFC@..., <atsfus@...> wrote :

On 5/8/2017 2:23 PM, destorzek@... [STMFC] wrote:
for a total of 128 compartments, for a grand total of 2,000, maybe 2,500 birds per car.

I'm misunderstanding something here.  Are we saying they would have to load 2-2.5K chickens using a 24" wide passage way?  Seems like that would take a long time.  I'm picturing in my mind two birds in each hand, opening and closing each cage, etc.

`    That's what I had wondered for some years as well, Jon, until the comment was made that what we are seeing in the cars were crates loaded onto  rails or racks. That makes sense. The standard chicken crate that I am familiar with is roughly 4 ft. long, 3 ft. wide and 1 1/2 ft. high with a wooden hinged opening near the center of the top. Can't recall how many birds were put in each crate but it wold obviously be easier to load a crate off of the car and then place the entire crate onto racks built into the car, probably on crate on each side of the central aisle but how many on top of one another I don't know.`
`Cordially, Don Valentine`

Re: Don't be chicken

Jon Miller

On 5/8/2017 2:23 PM, destorzek@... [STMFC] wrote:
for a total of 128 compartments, for a grand total of 2,000, maybe 2,500 birds per car.

I'm misunderstanding something here.  Are we saying they would have to load 2-2.5K chickens using a 24" wide passage way?  Seems like that would take a long time.  I'm picturing in my mind two birds in each hand, opening and closing each cage, etc.

```--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS```

price reduction for Tungsten weights- a source

Andy Carlson

Hi-
I have previously mentioned the company called "Maximum Velocity", a firm which specializes in Pinewood Derby supplies. I have purchased Tungsten weights from them in the past and found that their various sizes and shapes offered are very useful for model train weighting. Tungsten rivals both lead, gold and depleted uranium for specific weight. Water is rated 1; Zinc around 7; Steel 8; Lead 11; Tungsten 19. If you could afford Platinum, it would be denser yet @ 21.

I have no stake in this company, just a good source for specialty dense weights. They are currently offering 10% discounts through May 23, 2017. Their forwarded message is below.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

Dear Maximum Velocity Customer,

Now that the 2016-17 Pinewood Derby season is coming to a close,
Maximum Velocity is offering you an opportunity to prepare for the
next racing season with great deals on many products including
tungsten, discount blocks and kits, and a 10 percent discount on all
purchases.

Specifically, we are offering clearance pricing on:

- Tungsten, including one ounce of tungsten for 1 cent
(one per order, only 100 available),
- Discount plain blocks,
- Clearance car kits,
- Paint Stencils and decals.

We have a limited quantity of all of these products, so don't delay.

To browse all of our discounted product offers, please visit:

== A Special Discount For You ==
In addition to these reduced prices, we are offering a 10% discount on
all orders. To take advantage of this offer, please enter coupon code

SPRING17SALE

in the "Coupon Code" box on the shopping cart page. Wait to enter the
code until all items are in the cart, and make sure to enter it
exactly as shown above.

This offer is good through May 23, 2017.

== Tungsten Side Weights ==
Due to a patent issue, we can no longer offer Tungsten Side Weights on
our web site. However, we do have a few left in stock. If you would
like to purchase one or more sets, please give us a call at
623-587-9261.

== Shipping Offer ==
And don't forget, we offer no cost shipping for orders over \$85.

Thank you for your time and past patronage. We hope you have a great
summer.

With best regards,
Randy & Elisa Davis
Maximum Velocity - Give Your Car The Racer's Edge!
mailto:info@...

=====================================================
This e-mail was sent to Maximum Velocity customers who indicated
they would like to receive product updates.  This is the first of
three e-mails which will be sent in 2017.

If you are a Pinewood Derby Times newsletter subscriber, you will
=====================================================

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To subscribe,  send a blank message to Maximum-Velocity-on@...

To unsubscribe, send a blank message to Maximum-Velocity-off@...

with the old e-mail address in the Subject line.

mail-list.com    1302 Waugh Dr. #438    Houston, Texas    77019    USA

This message was launched into cyberspace to midcentury@...

Re: St. Louis RPM Vendors and Historical Societies

Clark Propst

Yesterday I called four hotels before I was able to reserve two double bed rooms. Three were sold out, one was over booked. Single bed rooms were still available I guess. Don’t wait much longer to book. This meet is getting out of hand  ;  ))
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

Re: Stripping an Accurail boxcar

Jeff Coleman

Try Purple Power cleaner, safe for all plastics.
Jeff Coleman

On May 8, 2017 10:44 PM, "'David Jobe, Sr.' tangerine_flyer@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Unfortunately, 91% Isopropyl alcohol barely touches the paint.  It did get most of the lettering though.
>
>
>
> David Jobe, Sr.
>
> Saint Ann, Missouri
>
>
>
> From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
> Sent: Monday, May 08, 2017 7:37 PM
> To: STMFC@...
> Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Stripping an Accurail boxcar
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Have you tried 91% Isopropyl alcohol?
>
> Eric Hansmann
>
> El Paso, TX
>
>
> On May 8, 2017, at 6:30 PM, 'David North' david.north@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Andrew,
>>
>> Because the undec version of this series is out of stock at all our suppliers.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Dave
>
>
>
>
>

Re: Stripping an Accurail boxcar

richard haave

I've used 91% Isopropyl alcohol to strip several Accurail cars.  However,  one I'm doing right now has required over a two week soak before anything started to come off,  it's the 40' C&C PS1 box.

Dick Haave

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