Date   

Re: Steel Strapping For Lumber Loads

Bill Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Tony,

Thanks for the info about the use of steel strapping on lumber loads. I have been preparing a couple of flat cars for lumber loads delivered in the early 1050s and would have made a modeling mistake. 

Cheers & Happy Modeling,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Mar 2, 2018, at 10:20 AM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


Bob Chaparro wrote:

 
From various prototype photos it is apparent that steel strapping was used for gondola and flat car loads in the steam era.
One type of load I have not see secured by steel strapping in the steam era is lumber. Perhaps I just haven't seen enough photos.
Does anyone know when steel strapping (in the form of banding) generally came into use for lumber loads on flat cars?

      Steel strapping was used before WW II, though not extensively, on railroad loads. It was very widely used during WW II and many servicemen became familiar with it, leading to great increases in its use after the war. But not for lumber until the end of the 1950s. The first use of it on SP, a big lumber shipper, was in 1959, as company photographers documented very completely.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley , CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history








Re: Steel Strapping For Lumber Loads

Tony Thompson
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:

 
From various prototype photos it is apparent that steel strapping was used for gondola and flat car loads in the steam era.
One type of load I have not see secured by steel strapping in the steam era is lumber. Perhaps I just haven't seen enough photos.
Does anyone know when steel strapping (in the form of banding) generally came into use for lumber loads on flat cars?

      Steel strapping was used before WW II, though not extensively, on railroad loads. It was very widely used during WW II and many servicemen became familiar with it, leading to great increases in its use after the war. But not for lumber until the end of the 1950s. The first use of it on SP, a big lumber shipper, was in 1959, as company photographers documented very completely.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Steel Strapping For Lumber Loads

thecitrusbelt@...
 

From various prototype photos it is apparent that steel strapping was used for gondola and flat car loads in the steam era.

 

One type of load I have not see secured by steel strapping in the steam era is lumber. Perhaps I just haven't seen enough photos.

 

Does anyone know when steel strapping (in the form of banding) generally came into use for lumber loads on flat cars?

 

Thanks.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Transfer to Groups.io

Mikebrock
 

Guys,

There have been several questions regarding the transfer of the STMFC to
Groups.io. I would like to give you a status report regarding such a move:



1. We will maintain the STMFC@Yahoo.com <mailto:STMFC@Yahoo.com's> 's
archives on the Yahoo Group. The STMFC will remain active on the Yahoogroups
platform.



2. A new group: RealSTMFC, has been formed and approved by Groups.io
which will assume the role of the STMFC on Groups.io. The STMFC archives and
membership will be copied to RealSTMFC and maintained and managed there. We
will distinguish between the Steam Era Freight Car Group at Groups.io from
the STMFC Yahoo group by this name change. I am the owner of RealSTMFC and
Jeff Aley will be a moderator. The new group will function very similarly to
the STMFC on Yahoogroups.





3. As some of you are aware, the STMFC name has apparently been "hi
jacked" [ as some have described it ] for use on Groups.io. The plan by us
was never to use the same STMFC name for Groups.io so we could distinguish
between the two. We have no association with any other group on Groups.io.



4. The Steam Era Freight Car Group [ STMFC ] was founded by myself and
about 30 dedicated modeler/historians including the late Richard Hendrickson
who suggested the group and its characteristics.





5. We, Jeff Aley, Tony Thompson and myself will keep you informed as
we progress through this effort.



* Feel free to ask any questions regarding these actions off groups at
<mailto:RealSTMFC+owner@groups.io> RealSTMFC+owner@groups.io

Mike Brock

STMFC and RealSTMFC Owner


Re: B&M ORER listings

Eric Lombard
 

Earl, I just added the last of the files to the Dropbox folder. Let me know if you are able to access these files and if they give you any trouble 🙄 Enjoy

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 4:31 PM, Roger Hinman rhinman11@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

I’m down in Harrisburg this week but I have some of the 20s orders at home

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com

On Thursday, February 22, 2018, 'Earl Tuson' etuson@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Hello,

I am conducting a study of the B&M’s application of steel ends and reinforcements on 36' wood and steel underframe box
cars and 34' wood underframe gondola cars during the 1920’s.  B&M AFE records are inadequate to fully document the end
replacements from the period. For example, B&M AFE 605 from 1920 authorized Mogul ends for 2000 boxcars. There are
no such application shown in 1921 (although Tim Gilbert claimed that such applications began in 1916,) but over 4707 cars
with those reinforcements are shown to exist in 1926.

I have ORER records from 12/21, when none of the relevant series are shown to have yet received steel ends, 10/26, and
12/30 (an adequate stopping point for the study for the time being, there being only retirements from that point on and no
increases from further steel end installations.)  For those of you with access to additional ORER’s within those dates, would
it be possible to obtain scans of the B&M ORER listing (starting on page 326 throughout the period of interest.) Thank you
for any assistance that you can provide,

Earl Tuson



Southern ventilated boxcars

Eric Hansmann
 

Fenton Wells has shared his tips and techniques in converting an Accurail 36-foot boxcar to a Southern ventilated boxcar. Check out the latest post on the DesignBuildOp blog.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2018/03/02/southern-ventilated-boxcars/


Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN


Re: CB&Q XM-25

Garth Groff or Sally Sanford <sarahsan@...>
 

Friends,

Remember that Ted Culotta covered the XM-25/26 in his "Essential Freight Cars" series. It was published in the February 2004 RMC. No plans, but excellent model and prototype photos.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

On 3/1/18 8:53 PM, Jim Hayes jimhayes97225@... [STMFC] wrote:
 
I have the PDS and instructions for Sunshine's XM-25 kit. No measurements but they might be helpful. Just ask.
Speedwitch also sold an XM25. They're out of stock but have several nice pictures on their website.

Jim

On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 3:45 PM, jdcellarmod@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Hi all,


I am looking for a drawing of this boxcar. I have the BRHS freight car data sheet. This gives me some dimensions but not everything I need as I am scratchbuilding/bashing this car. Any help would be appreciated. 


Thanks, Jeff Drennan



Re: CB&Q XM-25

Jim Hayes
 

I have the PDS and instructions for Sunshine's XM-25 kit. No measurements but they might be helpful. Just ask.
Speedwitch also sold an XM25. They're out of stock but have several nice pictures on their website.

Jim

On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 3:45 PM, jdcellarmod@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Hi all,


I am looking for a drawing of this boxcar. I have the BRHS freight car data sheet. This gives me some dimensions but not everything I need as I am scratchbuilding/bashing this car. Any help would be appreciated. 


Thanks, Jeff Drennan



Re: CB&Q XM-25

Nelson Moyer
 

The XM-25/26 single sheathed boxcars were once available from Sunshine, so you may be able to find one in somebody’s stash. They are unique in their grab iron ladder pattern, some above and some below the bolt heads. I built one of the Sunshine kits, but I don’t have dimensions or drawings.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2018 5:46 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: CB&Q XM-25

 

 

Hi all,

 

I am looking for a drawing of this boxcar. I have the BRHS freight car data sheet. This gives me some dimensions but not everything I need as I am scratchbuilding/bashing this car. Any help would be appreciated. 

 

Thanks, Jeff Drennan


Re: CB&Q XM-25

jdcellarmod@...
 

Hi all,


I am looking for a drawing of this boxcar. I have the BRHS freight car data sheet. This gives me some dimensions but not everything I need as I am scratchbuilding/bashing this car. Any help would be appreciated. 


Thanks, Jeff Drennan


Offered: Brass OMI HO Paccar Side dump Car

Andy Carlson
 

Hello-
I have a mint/new, with mint box and foam, Overland Models HO brass Paccar Side Dump Car built by Ajin of Korea. Typical quality one would expect from Ajin with nice underbody detail. Steel body and large air-powered pressure cylinders.
Offered for $195, plus buyer to pay $7 shipping by US mail. Pictures can be viewed by internet searching for "OMI-1317 Side dump Car".

I accept checks and with a small fee, I accept PayPal. Contact me off-list @ for details.
Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: GN front facing goat likelihood

Robert Heninger
 

Tim, 

GN heralds can sure get your goat, can't they?

In 1948, the lettering surrounding the goat was changed to "GREAT NORTHERN RAILWAY". It's first application to a freight car, as far as I know, was a series of GN steel boxcars with a NEW date of 2-48. Other cars in the series have a NEW date of 3-48.

This photo of GN 11022 shows the 1948 change:


The confusion arises in part because GN historical pamphlets show this "GREAT NORTHERN RAILWAY" herald, and state that the first use was in 1936. And they are correct: the GN first used this herald on paper items (timetables, forms, annual reports, etc.) in 1936. It was also used on the FTs which arrived beginning in May/June 1941. It might have been used on diesel switchers a bit earlier, but I'm not sure. I'm also not sure when it was first applied to a steam locomotive tender. It was not used on a freight car until 1948.

As best I can tell, the "See America First - Glacier National Park" herald with the side facing goat was applied (to GN freight cars) from February 1941 to February 1948. Before February 1941, the goat faced forward, and had much more detail on the goat's face, and the mountain he's standing on. 

A book could be (and probably should be) written about the subject, much like the excellent SP/PFE lettering book Dick Harley and Tony Thompson wrote. Maybe when I retire.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND 






More Goat

thecitrusbelt@...
 

And the risk of beating a dead goat to death, two prototype photos of our friendly forward facing goat:

 

http://www.protocraft.com/category.cfm?ItemID=867&Categoryid=45

 

http://www.protocraft.com/category.cfm?ItemID=932&Categoryid=45

 

And I thank all who posted on this topic as I certainly learned a few things.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: ERIE Yellow Diamond

Ray Breyer
 

You can also review original painting diagrams, several of which are on the Fallen Flags site. For example:

LOs 20000-20049. Monogram changed from white to gold 1/17/1944. Back to white 12/30/1946.
XMs 71800-71999. White to gold 1/21/1944 (WWII era drawing, so no date for returning to white).
XMs 84000-84314 and 95000-95999. White to gold 1/26/1944. Gold to white 12/30/1946.
XAs 98200-98699. White to gold 1/17/1944. Gold to white 12/17/1946.

So: January 1944 to December 1946. Yellow diamonds are in a VERY small window of time.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL



On Thursday, March 1, 2018, 11:58:02 AM CST, Schleigh Mike mike_schleigh@... [STMFC] wrote:




Hi Bill & Group!

The yellow (or Dulux imitation gold) diamond was addressed in the Vol. 30, No. 2 2016 edition of the ELHS magazine, The DIAMOND.  The actual time that the small (34") yellow diamond was applied to freight cars ranged "from late 1943 to June or July 1946."  This is from the summary paragraph by the author, Dan Biernacki.   This was a five page lead article in that issue.  After the above date the white diamond was enlarged to 72" where possible, otherwise kept at 34" for smaller spaces.  Cars delivered new or repainted during the above period would have had the 34" yellow diamond.  Subsequent repainting would wipe out the yellow.  I don't remember seeing any in the late 1950s or into E-L times.

Regards from wet Grove City in western Penna.----Mike Schleigh

On Thursday, March 1, 2018, 11:14:35 AM EST, fgexbill@... [STMFC] wrote:


 

Is there documentation for the dates when the Yellow Diamond was applied to their boxcars. Additionally I know in-service photos of the Erie's 1932 boxcars are scarce but is it known if the Yellow Diamond was applied to these cars, drawings for example?


Bill Welch





Re: GN front facing goat likelihood

Tim O'Connor
 


  >> that is just a date range under the side facing "Great Northern Railway"
  >> side facing goat herald, which was not applied to a Great Northern FREIGHT CAR
  >> until 1948.

Huh, wot? Ok have we moved on from "front vs side" to variations of side facing goats?
Because obviously the plywood cars in 1944 had side facing goats w/ "See America First"
emblems.

Tim O'


Re: ERIE Yellow Diamond

Schleigh Mike
 

Hi Bill & Group!

The yellow (or Dulux imitation gold) diamond was addressed in the Vol. 30, No. 2 2016 edition of the ELHS magazine, The DIAMOND.  The actual time that the small (34") yellow diamond was applied to freight cars ranged "from late 1943 to June or July 1946."  This is from the summary paragraph by the author, Dan Biernacki.   This was a five page lead article in that issue.  After the above date the white diamond was enlarged to 72" where possible, otherwise kept at 34" for smaller spaces.  Cars delivered new or repainted during the above period would have had the 34" yellow diamond.  Subsequent repainting would wipe out the yellow.  I don't remember seeing any in the late 1950s or into E-L times.

Regards from wet Grove City in western Penna.----Mike Schleigh

On Thursday, March 1, 2018, 11:14:35 AM EST, fgexbill@... [STMFC] wrote:


 

Is there documentation for the dates when the Yellow Diamond was applied to their boxcars. Additionally I know in-service photos of the Erie's 1932 boxcars are scarce but is it known if the Yellow Diamond was applied to these cars, drawings for example?


Bill Welch



ERIE Yellow Diamond

Bill Welch
 

Is there documentation for the dates when the Yellow Diamond was applied to their boxcars. Additionally I know in-service photos of the Erie's 1932 boxcars are scarce but is it known if the Yellow Diamond was applied to these cars, drawings for example?

Bill Welch



Pickle cars in the PNW

Doug Paasch
 

I’m kind of late to the pickle party, but would like to know a little more about pickle cars in the Pacific Northwest.  Does anyone know if they were ever used by Nalley’s in Tacoma (on NP I suppose), or Farman’s in Enumclaw (on Milwaukee I suppose)?  And if so, when would they have become “extinct” due to using trucks instead of RR cars?  Hope someone may have some thoughts on this.

Thanks!

   Doug Paasch


Re: GN front facing goat likelihood

Robert Heninger
 

My responses are bolded.


---In STMFC@..., <jimbetz@...> wrote :

Clark/Gary/all,

  My reference for the date for the front facing goat is non other than
Scott Thompson's "Great Northern Equipment Color Pictorial" (book 1,
page 73).

Jim, that is just a date range under the side facing "Great Northern Railway" side facing goat herald, which was not applied to a Great Northern FREIGHT CAR until 1948. Clearly, as has been documented elsewhere, that logo was first used on GN literature in about 1936. In fact, it is on the back cover of my 1940 GN Annual Report. It was also used on diesel locomotives starting about 1940/1941. The FTs might have been the first to use it, but I'm not sure. That's a whole other can of worms. 

Can you provide photographic evidence of a GN freight car with a side facing goat herald painted between 1936 and 1940? If you can, I will gladly stand corrected.

By the way, as useful as it is, Mr. Thompson's book is not a particularly reference for documenting steam era GN paint schemes, inasmuch as the vast majority of the photos in the three volume set are color photographs. I think the earliest photo in Volume 1 is dated 1957.

Were there some cars painted in the front facing goat after 1936? Probably.  

No, certainly. I have photographs of newly painted GN boxcars with 1936, 1937, 1938, 1939, and 1940 dates (over a dozen photos) in my collection. Every single one, across multiple car series, painted both by the GN, or one of three different commercial car builders, has a front facing goat herald. The latest has a November 1940 date. Furthermore, in my last post on this subject, I suggested the possibility of the 52000-52999 cars as the first series to use this herald. However, on page 39 of my copy of the 1940 GN Annual Report, is a photo of a string of cars from this series, the highest numbered being 52783. All of them have the front facing goat herald. It seems unlikely that Pullman would paint the last 200 cars differently from the first 800. Therefore, the first documented evidence I have of the use of the side facing goat herald, on a GN freight car, is GN boxcar 48743, dated February 1941. If others have photographic evidence otherwise, I'd love to see it.

Were there very many of them surviving in 1950-51 (the
O.P.'s date of interest)?  I submit "not many" as my answer.

I'll agree with you there. 

  Can he use some of them on his layout?  Of course he can.  The
questions are "how many?" ... and also "what service was the car in?"
and "what type of car?".  And, of course, the proverbial "it's my RR
and this is what I want to be seeing".  I did not answer "none".

  There is no way, at least that I know of, to "know for sure" what
percentage of cars would still have the front facing goat.  At the
same time - as the percentage goes up the "feel" of the early 50's
is compromised ... more weathering on those cars would
certainly help.
                    - Jim B.

Again, complete agreement. I have a couple photos showing boxcars with front facing goats taken in 1949, and 1952. The white part of the herald has almost completely worn off the side of the car. Only the black background is visible.

Well, I've sufficiently flagellated this dead horse. I've annoyed the list enough for one day.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND


Re: Klasing Hand Brake from Resin Car works

 

Tim,

The 646 Klasing wheel that TLT did dates from 1949 to the end of production of the malleable wheel and
the gear changed from the D-959 to the 1050 in '52 and to the 1150 in circa '54, and that would be the gear on
cars built in the late '50's. These gears are very different visually. If memory serves, Moloco does the 1150.

Dan Smith

31561 - 31580 of 187213