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Re: Ventilated Box Cars

Todd Horton
 

In later years, after the produce traffic died off, they were used in general service to haul most anything. 

I have a photo in my collection of one stenciled "For Pulpwood Loading Only" 

Labor was cheap :-)

 
Todd Horton


From: "jimbetz@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2017 11:55 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Ventilated Box Cars

 
Hi,
  What was shipped in "Ventilated Box Cars" - the ones with open/slotted doors and
ventilators on the ends of the cars?  
  Most of the pics of them I've seen have been pre-WWII ... when did they stop
being used?  What replaced them?
                                                                                                          - Jim
Re: Ventilated Box Cars

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Tim and Jim,

I'm wondering what you mean by "weren't traveling too terribly far"? A lot of produce out of the Carolinas and Georgia came north to New York and other major cities in these cars. That is a pretty fair distance. I can't cite statistics, but the proof is in photos of RF&P trains which often show large blocks of ACL ventilators. See Richard E. Prince's RICHMOND-WASHINGTON LINE for examples.

I agree about melons and the like being shipped in ventilators. Ambroid referred to their model as a "watermelon" car, which seems cute marketing but does have truthiness to it. The genius of these cars was that they could be used for almost any clean load on the return trip. I recall reading somewhere that tobacco was another frequent ventilator commodity, though most of this traffic likely didn't leave the south.

Jim, these ventilators are closely identified with "y'all" railroads, and most of the major southern lines had substantial fleets of these cars up WWII, with Seaboard and ACL continuing to use them in large numbers into the 1950s. However, as Dennis noted, they were replaced by ice reefers running as ventilators. By the 1920s the two biggest refrigerator operators, PFE and FGE, dominated the produce trade and the decline of ventilators was well underway.

On the West Coast, the Southern Pacific and its subsidiaries were major ventilators operators at the turn of the century. PFE made their ventilators redundant. Even the Western Pacific bought a modest fleet of ventilators just after WWI. When that road joined PFE, their ventilators were soon all rebuilt as plain boxcars.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 5/11/17 12:15 AM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] wrote:
 


Lots of melons and cantaloupes and squashes that weren't travelling
too terribly far and in "season" - but I think at other times of the
year they could be used like ordinary box cars.

Tim O'






What was shipped in "Ventilated Box Cars" - the ones with open/slotted doors and
ventilators on the ends of the cars? 

Most of the pics of them I've seen have been pre-WWII ... when did they stop
being used?  What replaced them?

Jim
Re: THINNER FOR FLOQUIL SOLVENT BASED PAINTS

Tony Thompson
 

Me too.
Tony Thompson 


On May 11, 2017, at 10:23 AM, Gerald Michels gjmichels53@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Have used lacquer thinner for over 30 years. Jerry Michels
Re: Ventilated Box Cars

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <jimbetz@...> wrote :

Hi,

  What was shipped in "Ventilated Box Cars" - the ones with open/slotted doors and

ventilators on the ends of the cars?  

  Most of the pics of them I've seen have been pre-WWII ... when did they stop

being used?  What replaced them?

                                                                                                          - Jim

=========================

What directly replaced them was standard ice reefers operating un-iced in "ventilator service" with the hatches open. More recently RBL's, insulated bunkerless refrigerator cars.


Dennis Storzek
Re: Ventilated Box Cars

Tim O'Connor
 


Lots of melons and cantaloupes and squashes that weren't travelling
too terribly far and in "season" - but I think at other times of the
year they could be used like ordinary box cars.

Tim O'






What was shipped in "Ventilated Box Cars" - the ones with open/slotted doors and
ventilators on the ends of the cars? 

Most of the pics of them I've seen have been pre-WWII ... when did they stop
being used?  What replaced them?

Jim
Ventilated Box Cars

Jim Betz
 

Hi,

  What was shipped in "Ventilated Box Cars" - the ones with open/slotted doors and

ventilators on the ends of the cars?  

  Most of the pics of them I've seen have been pre-WWII ... when did they stop

being used?  What replaced them?

                                                                                                          - Jim
Re: THINNER FOR FLOQUIL SOLVENT BASED PAINTS

bill woelfel
 

I called Testors not long after Floquil was discontinued and was told to use ENAMEL thinner to thin the paint but lacquer thinner or paint thiiner could be used for cleaning airbrushes, etc.   The old Floquil was thinned by most anything. Bill Woelfel
Re: THINNER FOR FLOQUIL SOLVENT BASED PAINTS

Jerry Michels
 

Have used lacquer thinner for over 30 years. Jerry Michels
Re: THINNER FOR FLOQUIL SOLVENT BASED PAINTS

James E Kubanick
 

I have used MEK as a Floquil thinner for as long as I can remember. It is available from Lowes in my area. I also use it to clean my airbrushes and as a styrene cement.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown


On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 3:33 PM, "Jeff Coleman traininsp@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
I used straight Tolune or Xylene for 20 years. Both bulk sources ran out, going to test Acetone based paint thinner next time I get out the airbrush.
Jeff Coleman

On May 10, 2017 2:16 PM, "WILLIAM PARDIE PARDIEW001@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

I believe that this was discussed a short time ago and I thought that I had saved and printed the information but apparently not so.
Someone had documented the chemical components of the Floquil solvent based thinner.  Could someone please forward this to me?

Also is anyone using a commercial thinner that does not require mixing?

Thanks in advance:

Bill Pardie
Re: price reduction for Tungsten weights- a source

John Sykes III
 

I heard through the grapevine that diosol was 50% toluene and 50% xylenes, but have not confirmed this.  Anyone know for sure?

The current, or more properly, the last version of Floquil was an enamel, which made it "plastic-compatible," so regular mineral spirits/paint thinner/Stoddard's solvent would work.  However, I have been using the later version of Floquil with lacquer thinner - but be careful,  lacquer thinner attacks plastic the same as diosol.  I have been using my limited supply of Floquil mainly for weathering, where the lacquer thinner works fine.

-- John
(No subject)

Staffan Ehnbom
 

Richard,

It would be reasonable to believe that standard GN steel ore cars like the 1929 built car no. 86251 in the Perry collection would be used for a move like this. I have a hunch there was a 35 miles per hour speed limit on GN ore trains on the Iron Range as well. I guess that would apply to trains forwarding these cars on the foreign road too. Just never heard the moniker "dump car" for a GN ore car. Learning something every day!

Staffan Ehnbom

On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 8:37 PM, Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Staffan,
 
Thanks for your detailed reply. I have a lot of information on C&S freight cars, but it includes no information that the C&S bought any GN ore cars. I believe these were GN revenue service cars bringing iron ore to the Colorado Fuel and Iron furnaces in Pueblo. I suspect they came via the GN to Sioux City, Iowa, then to Denver via the CB&Q, and finally to Pueblo via the C&S. Alternatively there may have been some other routing via the UP to Denver, or even - maximizing the haul on the GN - to Billings, then via CB&Q to the C&S in Wyoming. I just found at the Denver Public Library site an Otto Perry photo of GN ore car 86251 taken at Derby, Colorado (Denver area) in 1936. It must have been very late in 1936 since the car has a reweigh date of 11-36. I I think this is the kind of car the bulletin is referring to.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Staffan Ehnbom staffan.ehnbom@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wed, May 10, 2017 2:44 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC]

 
Richard,

Would you have any indication that these might be former GN (ore) cars bought by the C&S for use on line? There was an article inthe March/April 1981 Gazette on GN ore cars sold to several lines. Or would they be GN revenue service cars bringing ore from GN territory? In the latter case these are the GN cars that could dump a load: Aside from the steel ore cars mentioned there were still wood ore cars and the 180000 series wood 36' drop bottom coal & ore cars built 1900, the 72000 series looking like gons but with longitudinal bay hoppers (too large cars for iron ore?) and several series of 40' GS (perhaps less likely for ore sevice?), 73000 and 73200 series twin hoppers or 78000 series Hart convertible (ballast) cars. Some of the ubiquitous 40' truss rod box cars had hopper bottoms, but calling them "dump cars" might be pushing it a bit.

Staffan Ehnbom

On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 6:29 PM, Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 
I have at hand a selection of "bulletins" from the Colorado & Southern from the 1930s through the 1950s. They generally are one or two sentences and refer to things like a new siding being in place, specific operating instructions, and the like. One I am interested in following up on is from November 11, 1936, and says, "Trains handling Great Northern dump cars loaded with iron ore must not exceed a speed of 35 miles per hour." My question is, what would a "Great Northern dump car" have been in 1936?  
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 


Re: THINNER FOR FLOQUIL SOLVENT BASED PAINTS

Jeff Coleman
 

I used straight Tolune or Xylene for 20 years. Both bulk sources ran out, going to test Acetone based paint thinner next time I get out the airbrush.

Jeff Coleman


On May 10, 2017 2:16 PM, "WILLIAM PARDIE PARDIEW001@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
 


I believe that this was discussed a short time ago and I thought that I had saved and printed the information but apparently not so.
Someone had documented the chemical components of the Floquil solvent based thinner.  Could someone please forward this to me?

Also is anyone using a commercial thinner that does not require mixing?

Thanks in advance:

Bill Pardie
(No subject)

Richard Townsend
 

Staffan,
 
Thanks for your detailed reply. I have a lot of information on C&S freight cars, but it includes no information that the C&S bought any GN ore cars. I believe these were GN revenue service cars bringing iron ore to the Colorado Fuel and Iron furnaces in Pueblo. I suspect they came via the GN to Sioux City, Iowa, then to Denver via the CB&Q, and finally to Pueblo via the C&S. Alternatively there may have been some other routing via the UP to Denver, or even - maximizing the haul on the GN - to Billings, then via CB&Q to the C&S in Wyoming. I just found at the Denver Public Library site an Otto Perry photo of GN ore car 86251 taken at Derby, Colorado (Denver area) in 1936. It must have been very late in 1936 since the car has a reweigh date of 11-36. I I think this is the kind of car the bulletin is referring to.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Staffan Ehnbom staffan.ehnbom@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Wed, May 10, 2017 2:44 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC]

 
Richard,

Would you have any indication that these might be former GN (ore) cars bought by the C&S for use on line? There was an article inthe March/April 1981 Gazette on GN ore cars sold to several lines. Or would they be GN revenue service cars bringing ore from GN territory? In the latter case these are the GN cars that could dump a load: Aside from the steel ore cars mentioned there were still wood ore cars and the 180000 series wood 36' drop bottom coal & ore cars built 1900, the 72000 series looking like gons but with longitudinal bay hoppers (too large cars for iron ore?) and several series of 40' GS (perhaps less likely for ore sevice?), 73000 and 73200 series twin hoppers or 78000 series Hart convertible (ballast) cars. Some of the ubiquitous 40' truss rod box cars had hopper bottoms, but calling them "dump cars" might be pushing it a bit.

Staffan Ehnbom

On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 6:29 PM, Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 
I have at hand a selection of "bulletins" from the Colorado & Southern from the 1930s through the 1950s. They generally are one or two sentences and refer to things like a new siding being in place, specific operating instructions, and the like. One I am interested in following up on is from November 11, 1936, and says, "Trains handling Great Northern dump cars loaded with iron ore must not exceed a speed of 35 miles per hour." My question is, what would a "Great Northern dump car" have been in 1936?  
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 

THINNER FOR FLOQUIL SOLVENT BASED PAINTS

WILLIAM PARDIE
 


I believe that this was discussed a short time ago and I thought that I had saved and printed the information but apparently not so.
Someone had documented the chemical components of the Floquil solvent based thinner.  Could someone please forward this to me?

Also is anyone using a commercial thinner that does not require mixing?

Thanks in advance:

Bill Pardie
Railway Prototype Cyclopedia photo index

Steve SANDIFER
 

Has anyone done a photo index of the RPC that you are willing to share?

 

Steve Sandifer
Re: Old Athearn Dome Height

Ken Soroos
 

Garth and List -

Globe also produced a three-dome version. On the box label, the kit here is described as “8000 GAL. TANK CAR / UTLX / 8300-A (Three Dome) Price _____ / IT’S THE BEST IN HO GAUGE.”  The car no. is 1252.  Domes are small.

The 1953 Model Railroad Equipment Corp. catalog lists five three-dome tank cars:  Athearn Deep Rock, Shippers Car Line, and UTLX, all $2.75 as well as Globe Shippers Car Line and UTLX, also all $2.75.  All five cars were black.

Ken Soroos

 

On May 10, 2017, at 5:01 AM, Garth Groff sarahsan@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


Jon,

The Globe short 8K tanks were made in single and twin dome versions (I have one of each). The domes on these cars were very small, though acceptable for the twin dome. The same dome casting was used with the single dome version, and it was way too small. Otherwise, these cars are pretty close to scale.

The longer 12 or 12.5K tank under discussion was originally offered by Globe, and possibly continued by Athearn. This car was very close to scale. I believe I have seen a three-dome long car, which had a 12 K tank. As such, it would have been grossly oversized with oversized domes (most triple dome cars were in the 6K range).

I don't know if Globe offered a jacketed "chemical" tank in either length.

As most of us are aware, the 12 K tanks were retooled in plastic by Athearn. While the single-dome car can be improved, the three-dome is a piece of doo-doo. Sad that Athearn didn't retool the smaller tank cars in plastic, but now we have a number of excellent choices to fill that niche (though not all types in styrene yet).

I also have most of an unbuilt Mantua 10K tank kit. It is missing the paper wrapper and some of the other small parts. Someday I'm going to put this together, probably with a smooth wrapper for a jacketed tank. Without milling machinery, fitting Kadee couplers to the underframe is nearly impossible. I may substitute a shortened Athearn plastic underframe. I still keep my eyes open for Thomas tanks, but they are even rarer than the Globe models.

The Globe/Athearn boxcars and reefers were later sold by Menzies and Reynolds. I think the tooling ended up with Bowser/English. AFAIK, nobody ever continued the 40 and 50-foot Globe flatcars, though the 40' was the same design as the later odd Athearn plastic car. Due to the number of stake pockets, the 40' car only represents a group of about 100 obscure Rutland flats.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff
Re: Stripping an Accurail boxcar

Joseph
 

Dave. Need to work on beam out tech otherwise shipping would be a killer!
Good luck, joe binish


On May 10, 2017, at 9:03 AM, 'David North' david.north@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Thanks to everyone who reply with advice on stripping Accurail cars.

Joe, thanks for the offer – it would get a bit pricey as I’m in Australia and my mate Phil is in the Phillippines (grin).

Cheers

Dave North
Re: Stripping an Accurail boxcar

David North
 

Thanks to everyone who reply with advice on stripping Accurail cars.

Joe, thanks for the offer – it would get a bit pricey as I’m in Australia and my mate Phil is in the Phillippines (grin).

Cheers

Dave North
Re: Don't be chicken

James McDonald
 

Dear List,

John White published an interesting article in the Summer 1989 issue of Agricultural History on live poultry cars that discusses a number of the questions that have been discussed in this thread. If you have access to JSTOR (I believe you can register for free) you can find it here: http://www.jstor.org/stable/3743735

Among a great many other things that make the article worth reading, White noted that access to the cars was through the side doors into the attendant’s room, and from there to the cage areas. Also, it seems that there was only one car design that featured removable coops, but this didn’t catch on. The majority of live poultry cars per the article were outfitted with large cages that were subdivided into adjustable compartments that could be reconfigured for the size and type of fowl shipped. White primarily focused on the Jenkins/Live Poultry Transport Co. cars, but he does mention competing designs and companies.

All the best,

James

=-=-=

James McDonald
Greenbelt, MD

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
2.1. Re: Don't be chicken
Posted by: "george eichelberger" geichelberger@bellsouth.net geichelberger@bellsouth.net
Date: Tue May 9, 2017 2:24 pm ((PDT))

Dennis:

Nothing inside the Southern cars at all.

Re the SNB article, in a railroad owned style of car style if there were 60,000 “head” in fifteen cars, we have approx 4,000 birds per car. If they made it to NYC in 24 (less?) hours, would that meet the “hog law” for chickens and not require an attendant? Did that rule even exist in 1919.

Ike

PS I am having a hard time believing 6,600,000 eggs! Carried in ? vent box cars?
Re: Old Athearn Dome Height

Tony Thompson
 

Athearn certainly continued the 12.5-k gallon metal tank models, and I have one in the original yellow kit box.
Tony Thompson 


On May 10, 2017, at 6:01 PM, Garth Groff sarahsan@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Jon,

The Globe short 8K tanks were made in single and twin dome versions (I have one of each). The domes on these cars were very small, though acceptable for the twin dome. The same dome casting was used with the single dome version, and it was way too small. Otherwise, these cars are pretty close to scale.

The longer 12 or 12.5K tank under discussion was originally offered by Globe, and possibly continued by Athearn. This car was very close to scale. I believe I have seen a three-dome long car, which had a 12 K tank. As such, it would have been grossly oversized with oversized domes (most triple dome cars were in the 6K range).

I don't know if Globe offered a jacketed "chemical" tank in either length.

As most of us are aware, the 12 K tanks were retooled in plastic by Athearn. While the single-dome car can be improved, the three-dome is a piece of doo-doo. Sad that Athearn didn't retool the smaller tank cars in plastic, but now we have a number of excellent choices to fill that niche (though not all types in styrene yet).

I also have most of an unbuilt Mantua 10K tank kit. It is missing the paper wrapper and some of the other small parts. Someday I'm going to put this together, probably with a smooth wrapper for a jacketed tank. Without milling machinery, fitting Kadee couplers to the underframe is nearly impossible. I may substitute a shortened Athearn plastic underframe. I still keep my eyes open for Thomas tanks, but they are even rarer than the Globe models.

The Globe/Athearn boxcars and reefers were later sold by Menzies and Reynolds. I think the tooling ended up with Bowser/English. AFAIK, nobody ever continued the 40 and 50-foot Globe flatcars, though the 40' was the same design as the later odd Athearn plastic car. Due to the number of stake pockets, the 40' car only represents a group of about 100 obscure Rutland flats.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 5/9/17 6:48 PM, Jon Miller atsfus@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

On 5/9/2017 1:53 PM, Garth Groff sarahsan@... [STMFC] wrote:
It is my understanding that Athearn bought out Globe in the early 1950s.
    True.
The steel boxcars and reefers were continued for a while, and eventually sold off to other producers.
    Menzies, or something like that.
It is possible that Athearn didn't continue the Globe tank cars.
    It's my understanding that the Globe tank cars were close to scale and 2 or 3 different types (someone mentioned a 2 dome).  Very hard to find now.


--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS
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