Date   

Re: Photo: B&O Flatcar & Gondola (1913)

Eric Hansmann
 

That is one of many images on the Historic Pittsburgh site showing repair work after the 33rd Street Sewer Explosion of 1913. The bridge and ground level tracks are all B&O, formerly the Pittsburgh Junction Railway here. There are many vintage freight cars in these photos.

 

This 1910 Hopkins Plat Map shows the location adjacent to the Allegheny River with a Carnegie Steel facility.

https://arcg.is/1bCGP50

 

The bridge approach was above 33rd Street here.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2020 11:26 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: B&O Flatcar & Gondola (1913)

 

And right behind the flat and gondola is a steam driven pile driver, which you neglected to mention!

 

Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2020 11:16 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: B&O Flatcar & Gondola (1913)

 

Photo: B&O Flatcar & Gondola (1913)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.133845.CP/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Some good detail of the flatcar.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: B&O Flatcar & Gondola (1913)

Bruce Smith
 

And right behind the flat and gondola is a steam driven pile driver, which you neglected to mention!

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2020 11:16 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: B&O Flatcar & Gondola (1913)
 

Photo: B&O Flatcar & Gondola (1913)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.133845.CP/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Some good detail of the flatcar.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: B&O Flatcar & Gondola (1913)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: B&O Flatcar & Gondola (1913)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.133845.CP/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Some good detail of the flatcar.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: PRR Boxcar 531112 (1930)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: PRR Boxcar 531112 (1930)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A200907.1930.05045/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Photo editing software will improve the image of the boxcar.

What may be a PRR gondola with a scrap load appears to the left.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: GATX fleet breakdown?

Bruce Smith
 

David, Dave, Folks,

All this discussion of GATC tank cars has me looking at my fleet to see how I might both take advantage of Tangents most recent announcement and adjust my fleet. Are there any indications of a breakdown between car gallonages within a type? For example, is there a feeling on the ration of 8K to 10K tanks in the 1917 cars? I note that David says "most" were one or the other. What about the numbers of different styles within the 1928 design?

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Waynesburg & Washington Railroad

schmuck804_99@...
 


Re: Storzek & Des Plaines 1916 NYC Auto Box Cars

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Don,

Do you have Ted Culotta's article "New York Central "1916" Steel Auto Cars and Rebuilt Steel Auto Cars" from the January 2005 RMC?

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On Mon, Oct 5, 2020 at 11:09 AM Donald B. Valentine via groups.io <riverman_vt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

    Being a Rutland modeler I have a number of these box car and auto car kits and have some questions about two that turn out to be NYC cars, NOT Rutland versions. For those wo do not know the difference it

is clear to me that when designing these kits Dennis was aware of the fact that the 1916 NYC ordered cars had 6 over 6 rib ends but that the 1924 Rutland ordered cars used a 5 over 7 rib end while being alike in

all other respects. Two auto boxes purchased in the after market as Rutland cars have proven to be NYC cars, which it the reason for the following questions.

 

  1. The instructions Dennis prepared for these car kits state the NYC began to rebuild the auto cars with only 6 ft. doors beginning in 1931. Does this mean the NYC only had auto box cars originally?

 

  1. He further states that one hundred cars were sold to the Duluth, South Shore & Atlantic n 1935

and that “within the next two years most of the rest had been rebuilt as all steel boxcars”. Does

this mean that no cars of this type as either auto box cars or 6 ft. door box cars remained on the entire NYC system? What happened to the cars assigned to the Michigan Central? If an auto box

car of this type were still in use on the Michigan Central in the 1948 era I’d use the decals that

came with the kit and have one Michigan Central car. The other will end up as a D.S.S.&A. car or

a Nickel Plate Road car, that road having acquired a number of them through its purchase of the

Wheeling & Lake Erie.

 

     Hopefully either Dennis has acquired more knowledge of these cars over the last thirty years or Ray Breyer or another list member with knowledge of these cars can respond to my questions.

 

Cordially, Don Valentme

 

.


Re: Waynesburg & Washington Railroad

Eric Hansmann
 

Bob,

 

Your best bet is with the Waynesburg & Washington Facebook group.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/wwrailroad

 

Jim Weinschenker runs that and he has a trove of W&W photos. IIRC, many images from the W&W book are now in Jim’s possession.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Monday, October 5, 2020 10:20 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Waynesburg & Washington Railroad

 

Waynesburg & Washington Railroad

Does anyone have photos/photo links to the rolling stock of this railroad? Thanks.

From Wikipedia:

The Waynesburg and Washington Railroad was a 28-mile 3 foot gauge subsidiary of the Pennsylvania Railroad. From the 1870s through the 1920s the line served its namesake towns in Southwestern Pennsylvania (often referred to as the Wayynie). After the 1930s, the line did struggle on, but mostly on paper.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Waynesburg & Washington Railroad

Jim and Barbara van Gaasbeek
 

Bob,

 

A book was published some time ago on the W&W:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Three-feet-panhandle-Waynesburg-Washington/dp/0912113006/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=waynesburg+and+washington&qid=1601914708&sr=8-1

 

My copy is in storage, so I can’t tell you about the quantity or quality of the photos.  However, it is probably a source for you.

 

Jim van Gaasbeek

Irvine, CA


Re: Photo: Steel Beams On PRR Flatcars (Circa 1927-1936)

Eric Hansmann
 

The far right flat car in this image bears a 7-27 weigh stencil.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Monday, October 5, 2020 10:23 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Steel Beams On PRR Flatcars (Circa 1927-1936)

 

Photo: Steel Beams On PRR Flatcars (Circa 1927-1936)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A943.000016.GN/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

The beams straddle two flatcars apiece.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Storzek & Des Plaines 1916 NYC Auto Box Cars

Benjamin Hom
 

Don Valentine asked:
"Being a Rutland modeler I have a number of these box car and auto car kits and have some questions about two that turn out to be NYC cars, NOT Rutland versions. For those who do not know the difference it is clear to me that when designing these kits Dennis was aware of the fact that the 1916 NYC ordered cars had 6 over 6 rib ends but that the 1924 Rutland ordered cars used a 5 over 7 rib end while being alike in  all other respects. Two auto boxes purchased in the after market as Rutland cars have proven to be NYC cars, which it the reason for the following questions:
 
1. The instructions Dennis prepared for these car kits state the NYC began to rebuild the auto cars with only 6 ft. doors beginning in 1931. Does this mean the NYC only had auto box cars originally?"

Correct.  Cars were originally in Lots 327-B, 328-B, 329-B, 352-B, 353-B, 357-B, 358-B, 361-B, 363-B, 364-B, 365-B, and 366-B.  See Terry Link's website for more details on individual lots.

"2. He further states that one hundred cars were sold to the Duluth, South Shore & Atlantic in 1935 and that 'within the next two years most of the rest had been rebuilt as all steel boxcars'. Does this mean that no cars of this type as either auto box cars or 6 ft. door box cars remained on the entire NYC system?"

Rebuilt steel boxcar lots include 633-B, 634-B, 637-B, 643-B, 644-B, 648-B, 649-B, 652-B, 654-B, 657-B, 662-B, 663-B, 664-B, 672-B, and 679-B; however, some DS cars survived to at least 1950, though you'll have to check the ORERs for specifics regarding numbers of cars left.  The steel rebuilds were offered by Sunshine, and were surprisingly common cars, with many turning up in the Premo shifting lists.

"What happened to the cars assigned to the Michigan Central? If an auto box car of this type were still in use on the Michigan Central in the 1948 era I’d use the decals that came with the kit and have one Michigan Central car."

The Michigan Central cars were notionally renumbered in NYC car series in 1936, but cars with MCRR reporting marks ran until 1945.  Again, check the applicable ORERs for details.

Finally, these cars are currently available from Westerfield, including the Rutland and DSS&A variations.
Ben Hom



Photo: Steel Beams On PRR Flatcars (Circa 1927-1936)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Steel Beams On PRR Flatcars (Circa 1927-1936)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A943.000016.GN/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

The beams straddle two flatcars apiece.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Waynesburg & Washington Railroad

Bob Chaparro
 

Waynesburg & Washington Railroad

Does anyone have photos/photo links to the rolling stock of this railroad? Thanks.

From Wikipedia:

The Waynesburg and Washington Railroad was a 28-mile 3 foot gauge subsidiary of the Pennsylvania Railroad. From the 1870s through the 1920s the line served its namesake towns in Southwestern Pennsylvania (often referred to as the Wayynie). After the 1930s, the line did struggle on, but mostly on paper.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Storzek & Des Plaines 1916 NYC Auto Box Cars

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

    Being a Rutland modeler I have a number of these box car and auto car kits and have some questions about two that turn out to be NYC cars, NOT Rutland versions. For those wo do not know the difference it

is clear to me that when designing these kits Dennis was aware of the fact that the 1916 NYC ordered cars had 6 over 6 rib ends but that the 1924 Rutland ordered cars used a 5 over 7 rib end while being alike in

all other respects. Two auto boxes purchased in the after market as Rutland cars have proven to be NYC cars, which it the reason for the following questions.

 

  1. The instructions Dennis prepared for these car kits state the NYC began to rebuild the auto cars with only 6 ft. doors beginning in 1931. Does this mean the NYC only had auto box cars originally?

 

  1. He further states that one hundred cars were sold to the Duluth, South Shore & Atlantic n 1935

and that “within the next two years most of the rest had been rebuilt as all steel boxcars”. Does

this mean that no cars of this type as either auto box cars or 6 ft. door box cars remained on the entire NYC system? What happened to the cars assigned to the Michigan Central? If an auto box

car of this type were still in use on the Michigan Central in the 1948 era I’d use the decals that

came with the kit and have one Michigan Central car. The other will end up as a D.S.S.&A. car or

a Nickel Plate Road car, that road having acquired a number of them through its purchase of the

Wheeling & Lake Erie.

 

     Hopefully either Dennis has acquired more knowledge of these cars over the last thirty years or Ray Breyer or another list member with knowledge of these cars can respond to my questions.

 

Cordially, Don Valentme

 

.


Re: Tank Car Reweigh and Other Markings

Bruce Smith
 

Steve,

Um, most shippers did not have scales, so this is nothing special or specific to tank cars. It also does not present any problem. Shippers or consignees had cars weighed by the railroad. Tank cars would be no different, if billing was by weight (which it was not). 

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Steve Summers via groups.io <summers1218@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2020 10:54 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tank Car Reweigh and Other Markings
 
I’ll jump into this and hopefully not add to any confusion but there is another reason for not listing the car weight on tank cars back then.  Only the largest manufacturers or customers had a scale to weigh a tank car. 

Even today due to the high cost to purchase a scale with the weight capacity needed for heavy rail cars, there are only a few customers with scales.  In fact, several manufacturers still do not have scales today, hence the use of volume (gallons) which can be measured by a meter like at a gas pump.


On Oct 4, 2020, at 10:14 PM, Ray Carson via groups.io <PrewarUPModeler@...> wrote:



I was mainly confused due to seeing prototype photos with a "reweigh" date taken before photos (don't have any example photos, sorry) and I kept assuming tankers were treated the same as other freight cars. However I guess I was overthinking a bit on Tony's post due to me being used to the concept of freight cars reweighs as I continue to learn more about freight car assignments.

-Ray


Re: Tank Car Reweigh and Other Markings

Dave Parker
 

On Sun, Oct 4, 2020 at 06:58 PM, Ray Carson wrote:
So in the end, would a Tangent 1936+ scheme tank car fit my 1939 year without making any decal changes? How about older tank cars that are 5+ years older?
Strictly speaking no.  Despite the absence of periodic reweighing, tank cars would still have had stencils redone periodically,  Specifically:

1.  Regular brake service.  Every 12 months starting back in 1901, increased to 15 months in 1933 (I believe).  This was for K brakes.  The interval was longer for ABs.  Tony has a blog piece on this.

2.  Regular journal box repacking.  Every 12 months starting in 1920; I think this also increased in the mid-1930s as there was some movement towards standardizing intervals.  I should know how/when it changed, but can't put my hands on it right now.

3.  Tank cars required periodic testing of both valves and tanks.  The block of lettering at the right end of the car-sides had to be redone or touched up to reflect the new testing dates.  From 1930 forward, the interval was after 10 years since construction, and every five thereafter.  In the 1920s, the intervals were different for valves and tank, and varied some with car class.

All of these stencils are small and generally difficult to read without magnification (in HO).   But many of us have cameras capable of capturing these <2" stencils, and pad-printing makes them quite sharp on many RTRs.

If one is really fastidious about having every stenciled date correct for the chosen model year, this is unlikely to be easily achieved with many/most tank-car models.  I suspect most folks compromise. 

PS:  Brake stencils are often more obvious on tank cars because the reservoir is often easier to see.  Conversely, the repack stencils can be harder to see on cars without stub-sills, as they were generally applied to the center sill.

Hope this helps.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Tank Car Reweigh and Other Markings

Steve Summers
 

I’ll jump into this and hopefully not add to any confusion but there is another reason for not listing the car weight on tank cars back then.  Only the largest manufacturers or customers had a scale to weigh a tank car. 

Even today due to the high cost to purchase a scale with the weight capacity needed for heavy rail cars, there are only a few customers with scales.  In fact, several manufacturers still do not have scales today, hence the use of volume (gallons) which can be measured by a meter like at a gas pump.


On Oct 4, 2020, at 10:14 PM, Ray Carson via groups.io <PrewarUPModeler@...> wrote:



I was mainly confused due to seeing prototype photos with a "reweigh" date taken before photos (don't have any example photos, sorry) and I kept assuming tankers were treated the same as other freight cars. However I guess I was overthinking a bit on Tony's post due to me being used to the concept of freight cars reweighs as I continue to learn more about freight car assignments.

-Ray


Re: Tank Car Reweigh and Other Markings

Ray Carson
 

I was mainly confused due to seeing prototype photos with a "reweigh" date taken before photos (don't have any example photos, sorry) and I kept assuming tankers were treated the same as other freight cars. However I guess I was overthinking a bit on Tony's post due to me being used to the concept of freight cars reweighs as I continue to learn more about freight car assignments.

-Ray


Re: Tank Car Reweigh and Other Markings

Bruce Smith
 

Ray,

I'm not sure why you are confused. Tony's comments are clear. Tank cars are not box cars. They were not required to be reweighed on a regular interval. Their cargos were not billed based on weight, but on volume. This a shipper has no need for an accurate light weight of the tank car, since the car will not be weighed and the weight of the cargo will not be calculated from the total weight minus the light weight. Thus, just as Tony says, there are plenty of examples of tank cars with reweigh dates a decade or more old.  And yes, they can also have more current dates if they have undergone some kind of service, again, just like Tony sez...

So to answer your question, the relevance of an older scheme depends on several issues, but generally not reweigh. Older lease schemes can be inappropriate due to the lease having ended. Likewise if an owner has changed paint schemes in the intervening years, the car may have been repainted into the newer scheme. 

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Carson via groups.io <PrewarUPModeler@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2020 8:58 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tank Car Reweigh and Other Markings
 

Hello everyone,

With the release of Tangent's new run of 8000 gallon 1917-design tankers, I was interested in something that got me confused months before.

So I was reading on Tony Thompson's blog regarding an SP tank car he was building in 2014 (https://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2014/04/modeling-sp-gasoline-tank-car.html) and in one part he says:

On the tank at this point, there is no reweigh date. Tank car cargoes were billed by gallonage, not by weight, so the car’s light weight was of no importance (unlike all other types of freight cars). Prototype photos commonly show tank cars having weigh dates a decade, or even multiple decades, prior to the photo date. But when cars were repaired, they were ordinarily reweighed, and SP tank cars often do show that change.

Okay, that makes sense. However I've seen photos of tank cars with their dates reflecting when the photo was taken in service. I even recall seeing photos of tank car models with reweigh dates for some modelers modeling a year. Was this something overlooked or am I getting myself confused with tank cars?

So in the end, would a Tangent 1936+ scheme tank car fit my 1939 year without making any decal changes? How about older tank cars that are 5+ years older? I'm overall used to the concept of freight cars being reweighed every 1-2 years depending on whether wood or steel bodied and tank cars being an exception confuses me a bit.

Thanks, Ray


Tank Car Reweigh and Other Markings

Ray Carson
 

Hello everyone,

With the release of Tangent's new run of 8000 gallon 1917-design tankers, I was interested in something that got me confused months before.

So I was reading on Tony Thompson's blog regarding an SP tank car he was building in 2014 (https://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2014/04/modeling-sp-gasoline-tank-car.html) and in one part he says:

On the tank at this point, there is no reweigh date. Tank car cargoes were billed by gallonage, not by weight, so the car’s light weight was of no importance (unlike all other types of freight cars). Prototype photos commonly show tank cars having weigh dates a decade, or even multiple decades, prior to the photo date. But when cars were repaired, they were ordinarily reweighed, and SP tank cars often do show that change.

Okay, that makes sense. However I've seen photos of tank cars with their dates reflecting when the photo was taken in service. I even recall seeing photos of tank car models with reweigh dates for some modelers modeling a year. Was this something overlooked or am I getting myself confused with tank cars?

So in the end, would a Tangent 1936+ scheme tank car fit my 1939 year without making any decal changes? How about older tank cars that are 5+ years older? I'm overall used to the concept of freight cars being reweighed every 1-2 years depending on whether wood or steel bodied and tank cars being an exception confuses me a bit.

Thanks, Ray

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