Date   

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Burning Box Car also burnt flat

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Bill;

 

I wish I still had my copy, but it never got back to me after I loaned it.  That is a FABULOUS photo.  I looked at it often.  I wish I had that one in my digital files.

 

There is a lot of correspondence on car fires in the files of the PRRT&HS, which shipped a surprising amount of coke in box cars, and can attest to the practice of loading coke still hot from the ovens, thinking it was cooled.  The coke burned its way thru the pile, igniting cooled coke, until it reached the car side or floor, then torching the car.

 

Local fire departments HATED the RRs, since the loads, or hot boxes, sometimes ignited dry vegetation next to the ROW, then attacked neighboring structures.  RRs had to create their own fire-fighting cars, but they never arrived on-scene in time.  LOTS of hate mail on that.

 

Train crew had to act quickly to deal with a car on fire, and break the train to get the car off the main to a suitable siding.  Sometimes this didn’t work.  Plus, a burning car load of coke out in the boonies did not have access to city water, so they sometimes just let it burn out….like that car in the photo.

 

The gon I mentioned was burnt out, I think, by a hot steel load, which burned one end of the car.  The practice of putting hot coil or slabs over the trucks resulted in that strange outcome.

 

There was also a composite gon I remember that was burnt to the framing, with literally NO remaining lettering.  The heat of the fire even burned the lettering off the frame.  It was around for years, and years later I was told no one could ID whose car it was.  They eventually broke it up for scrap.  I did a model in HO of that car, for parking on a siding, to see what the operators did with it.  It was ALWAYS ignored.

 

So, what do you all make of this?  This is a PRR F28 built to haul turbines out of the East Pittsburgh Westinghouse plant.  I cannot find the correspondence.  Attached….

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of William Hirt
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2021 10:26 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Burning Box Car

 

In Morning Sun's Rock Island Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment by Steve Hile, there is a picture on page 34 of a Rock Island Outside Braced Wood Sheathed boxcar set off and burning in Cotter, Iowa, in May 1956. The caption states the car was carrying a load of coke. The supposition is either something set the coke on fire, or that the coke was still hot enough when it was loaded that it started a fire on it's own. The picture shows that one pile of the coke is still red hot with small amount of flames coming out the bottom of the car near the remaining door superstructure.

Bill Hirt

On 2/25/2021 8:11 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

Folks;

 

I’m sorry if we discussed this before, but I may have missed it.

 

What was the story behind this burning box car?

 

Does anyone have any photos of burning freight cars they can share?

 


Re: Burning Box Car

Mont Switzer
 

The Monon had the same problem with composite coke cars used as late at the 1960's. Coke was loaded in Indianapolis and hauled north to destinations throughout the Midwest.

It usually happed between Indianapolis and Monon.  Crew saw smoke, set the car out, local fire departments brought water, car usually burned all the way down, mechanical department picked up the remaining metal.

The Monon switched to gons with coke containers in the late 1960's.

Mont Switzer


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] on behalf of William Hirt [whirt@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2021 10:26 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Burning Box Car

In Morning Sun's Rock Island Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment by Steve Hile, there is a picture on page 34 of a Rock Island Outside Braced Wood Sheathed boxcar set off and burning in Cotter, Iowa, in May 1956. The caption states the car was carrying a load of coke. The supposition is either something set the coke on fire, or that the coke was still hot enough when it was loaded that it started a fire on it's own. The picture shows that one pile of the coke is still red hot with small amount of flames coming out the bottom of the car near the remaining door superstructure.

Bill Hirt

On 2/25/2021 8:11 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

Folks;

 

I’m sorry if we discussed this before, but I may have missed it.

 

What was the story behind this burning box car?

 

Does anyone have any photos of burning freight cars they can share?

 


Re: Burning Box Car

William Hirt
 

In Morning Sun's Rock Island Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment by Steve Hile, there is a picture on page 34 of a Rock Island Outside Braced Wood Sheathed boxcar set off and burning in Cotter, Iowa, in May 1956. The caption states the car was carrying a load of coke. The supposition is either something set the coke on fire, or that the coke was still hot enough when it was loaded that it started a fire on it's own. The picture shows that one pile of the coke is still red hot with small amount of flames coming out the bottom of the car near the remaining door superstructure.

Bill Hirt

On 2/25/2021 8:11 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

Folks;

 

I’m sorry if we discussed this before, but I may have missed it.

 

What was the story behind this burning box car?

 

Does anyone have any photos of burning freight cars they can share?

 


Re: Foobie

Ed
 

Having served a lifetime in the Navy, I can attest to Tony's statement. I would equate FUBAR with FOOBIE.

Ed Robinson


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Burning Box Car

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Tim;

 

Thanks for the fabulous photo!  I have not seen that one.  Wonder how the tank car ignited?

 

I saw a lot of burnt cars on the PRR during childhood.  Hot steel and wooden parts don’t mix. 

 

There was a burnt gon for years on an unused siding I saw regularly while raifanning.  I had a pic but lost it from a flood.

 

Thanks again!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2021 9:22 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Burning Box Car

 


Wood floors; flaming journal boxes? :-D

I saw flames passing by under a box car once, in the late 1970's in Ann Arbor, on a
Penn (old Michigan) Central freight along the Huron River.

Of course, who knows what started this particular fire?

I've attached Edward Kindig's fire photo for your enjoyment.


On 2/25/2021 9:11 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

Folks;

 

I’m sorry if we discussed this before, but I may have missed it.

 

What was the story behind this burning box car?

 

Does anyone have any photos of burning freight cars they can share?

 

Thanks!

 

Elden Gatwood

Attachments:

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Burning Box Car

Tim O'Connor
 


Wood floors; flaming journal boxes? :-D

I saw flames passing by under a box car once, in the late 1970's in Ann Arbor, on a
Penn (old Michigan) Central freight along the Huron River.

Of course, who knows what started this particular fire?

I've attached Edward Kindig's fire photo for your enjoyment.


On 2/25/2021 9:11 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

Folks;

 

I’m sorry if we discussed this before, but I may have missed it.

 

What was the story behind this burning box car?

 

Does anyone have any photos of burning freight cars they can share?

 

Thanks!

 

Elden Gatwood

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: For Throwback Thursday: Santa Fe express boxcar 4155

James Brewer
 

A very nice looking car!

Jim Brewer


Burning Box Car

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Folks;

 

I’m sorry if we discussed this before, but I may have missed it.

 

What was the story behind this burning box car?

 

Does anyone have any photos of burning freight cars they can share?

 

Thanks!

 

Elden Gatwood


Mystery Tank Car IDs

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

I've been perplexed for a number of years by several tank car photos I've scavenged for possible future models (Yeah, right!). Today I spent a couple of hours playing detective, and can offer the IDs for three tanks that were a mystery to me.

CMTX 465 probably belongs to "John Shatford, Agent". These marks were in use from 1935 to 1947, but they were used for other operators after our period of interest. Information on this car comes from Ian Cranstone's pages, which have a huge list of private reporting marks.

QTX 106 is from Quaker City Tank Line. Actually, if I had blown this up to gragantuan size sooner, I would have seen "Quaker City Tank Line" on the right side of the tank. (Sigh!) QTX was used between 1930 to 1932, and again in 1935 by General American. 

Finally, we have TKX 700. This car belonged to Thomas Keery Co. Their fleet cas active under these marks from 1920 to 1935, and again from 1937 to 1945. I found their listing, including this very car, in a 1937 ORER online. Sadly, Google Books only allowed a partial view of the page, and information about the ownership and home yard for their fleet was cut off. I was able to discover that Keery apparently refined phenols, esters and other chemicals from coal tar. Patents in this company's name are recorded for the phenol refining process.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆






Re: Foobie

spsalso
 

But, but, but you just added another post!

And so did I, just now!


Arghhhh.....


Ed

Edward Sutorik


For Throwback Thursday: Santa Fe express boxcar 4155

Richard Scott
 

For Throwback Thursday I’m posting this photo of my new O‑scale Santa Fe express boxcar, a recent pandemic project.  It started out as an automobile car that the late Jim Pierce built from a vintage Athearn kit.  I bought it from Jim and ran it for thirty years before rebuilding it as an Fe‑24 express car.

During the rebuild I stripped the car’s silk-screened sides, replaced its rough stamped metal doors and roof walks with scratchbuilt parts, and added bracket grab irons and brake hoses.  I painted it with Scalecoat and Floquil enamels, and lettered it with Protocraft decals.  This livery was applied to Santa Fe’s 300 Fe‑24 express cars from 1943 until 1958.

I have an album featuring some of my freight car models on the first page of our photo section.  These cars are all O scale and include everything from scratchbuilds to modified RTR cars.  I hope you will enjoy looking through them.

Dick Scott

 


Re: Seeking Logos For Bulk Oil Tanks

Jeff Ford
 

Bill,

Microscale did sets to letter the City Classics HO gas station kit.  The Flying A set is 87-874 and the Gulf set is 87-902. 

Happy hunting.
-Jeff Ford
Sanger, TX


Re: Red Owl warehouse

Tony Thompson
 

Bill Jolitz wrote:

Canned goods in reefers!  June thru Sept.  Wondering why.  What does RR Bob have to say?

       Until the early 1950s, the "insulated boxcar of the day" was the ordinary reefer. Everything from pharmaceuticals to dry goods to canned goods moved routinely in reefers if weather extremes were expected. 
      Numerous cargoes of these kinds are described in the PFE book.

Tony Thompson




Re: Red Owl warehouse

Bill J.
 

On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 09:14 AM, Clark Propst wrote:
Red Owl foods had grocery stores in Minnesota and some in surrounding states. They had a warehouse in Hopkins Minn. on the M&StL. I was given a seal book to transcribe from the middle on 1949 to Jan 1950. I have two canneries on my layout ad deliver reefers to them to ship out their canned goods. So far I've put three months worth of car loads into Excel. Out of curiosity I added up the canned goods cars so far. Canned goods are not all veggies, but this is what data I have. There are 12 reefers and 63 others, I'm assuming box cars, I haven't added ORER data yet. I guess I need to setout a few box cars once in awhile too?
Clark 
Canned goods in reefers!  June thru Sept.  Wondering why.  What does RR Bob have to say?

Bill Jolitz


Re: F&C meat reefer prototypes

nyc3001 .
 

Philip,

I think the Roundhouse roof is a fairly standard tongue and groove wood roof. It doesn't appear dissimilar to the one on the ARLX 11000 series car.

-Phil


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Mostly Gondolas (Circa 1940s)

Philip Dove
 

The Mssouuri Pacific car I was referring to,  was part of a class of 2,400 gondolas built in 3 lots for the Mopac and subsidiaries between 1937 and 1942 that were built new with paneled sides according to the data sheet that comes with the F&C kit . In 1949 Mopac built similar Gondolas in house but didn't bother with the special panels. I was surprised on reading the information to see that the panels were not a replacement item. I understood that by the late 1930s the panels were going out of favour as railroads realised they tended to rust out more quickly than flat sheets. Would a load of sand be sheeted over to stop the load blowing away? What would the tarps if any look like?

Virus-free. www.avast.com

On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 at 16:53, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Guys;

 

At least on PRR:  early gon and hopper side replacements involved removing the rivets, then replacement of side panels or boards, followed by re-riveting, painting and lettering.

 

As time went by and labor costs rose, replacements were more unitary, like the combined partial side panel and stake replacements used on the H21E, for example.  Four pieces for each side, IIRC.

 

By the sixties, PRR had moved to entire side replacements, stakes and all.  That included things like Stanray corrugated sides with integral stakes.

 

Just one example…

 

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2021 10:19 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Mostly Gondolas (Circa 1940s)

 

On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 06:46 AM, Mont Switzer wrote:

.........and the sides most likely were shot and needed replacement anyway. However, the stamped side panels obviously would cost more.

Unless... The stamped side panels also included the stakes, saving the fabrication of separate parts. I haven't had any occasion to research replacement gondola sides, but as far as hopper sides are concerned, very few cars used separate framing as modeled on the Tichy car. Early on Union Metal Products revised their product to include "integral stakes", each edge of the sheet being flanged outward to form half a stake, which were welded together after the sheets were riveted to the side sills.

Dennis Storzek


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Foobie

George Kristy
 

I can't believe that there have been so many posts on such a useless topic!!


Re: Foobie

Tony Thompson
 

Marty McGuirk wrote:

1. Other Fouled has a specific meaning on a ship, No self respecting sailor would ever say Fouled Up when he or she meant Fu…. 

     And of course "fouled up" is the euphemism. Anyone with any time in or around the military is very familiar with that other "F" word. An observer of the British army once said that the F-word only means a noun or verb is coming.

Tony Thompson




Re: Foobie

Tony Thompson
 

Marty McGuirk wrote:

FUBAR is indeed a Navy expression- dating to at least WWII and is still in use today. Heard it in a meeting yesterday in fact ...
And the Navy context, and I believe Richard’s use of the derivative foobie, has nothing to do with boobies. 

Full agreement, Marty.

Tony Thompson




Re: Foobie

Benjamin Hom
 

Marty McGuirk wrote:
"Other Fouled has a specific meaning on a ship, No self respecting sailor would ever say Fouled Up when he or she meant Fu...."

Concur. This thread is FUMTU.


Ben Hom

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