Date   

Re: Heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers-Why?

Jeff Ford
 

Dennis,

Helium tank cars are another example.  They tip the scales at 100 tons, empty.  Not only did the early cars have clasp brake rigging, they had two complete air brakes systems - one for each truck.

That's a lot of braking effort for a net payload of 3000 pounds of Helium.  All the weight came from the 30 welded steel tanks that held the gas. 

$.02,
-Jeff Ford
Sanger, TX


HD Truck Tweak?

Jeff Ford
 

Corey,

Nice work on those trucks.  I wonder how much additional work would be involved in tweaking them to replicate the trucks used under the helium cars. Attached is Jay Miller's handout that has views of the various trucks used in the helium fleet.  The biggest difference I can see is the size of the journal boxes.  The He cars rode on 6.5 x 12 journals and the boxes are visibly large.  A second difference for the early cars is the Andrews bracket as the journal boxes were demountable. 

I'd be curious to know what your thoughts are having been down that road. 

Thanks,
Jeff Ford
Sanger, TX


Re: Rio Grande PS1

Benjamin Hom
 

Tim O' Connor wrote:
"But I think the Kurtz Kraft body was 10-6."

It is...but because it's a flat kit, it's easier to take 6 inches off the height.


Ben Hom


Re: heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers

spsalso
 

I got it into my head the the B&LE car was the prototype for the Ulrich triple.  Comparing photos, I see that it is not.

Does anyone happen to know what the prototype was for this model?


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers

Keith Retterer
 

Here is the builder's photo of the B&LE hopper with those massive trucks.  Also a close-up of the truck.
Keith.


Re: Rio Grande PS1

Tim O'Connor
 


But I think the Kurtz Kraft body was 10-6


On 2/18/2021 6:54 PM, D. Scott Chatfield wrote:
Tim O wrote:

> Exactly one railroad bought 10-0 IH PS-1 box cars with 7 foot doors -  the New Haven. And they bought 1500 of them!

Did somebody say 7 foot door?  Isn't that what the old Kurtz Kraft, later Connonball Car Shops, flat kit PS-1 had?   Hmmm....


Scott Chatfield
_._,_._,_


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers-Why?

Tim O'Connor
 


Ahem. When you've got serious grades, you need serious brakes!

(Athearn makes the roller bearing version of the clasp brake trucks.)


On 2/18/2021 11:00 PM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
I was giving some thought to these trucks, wondering why high capacity cars (85 and 90 tons capacity) of the pre-war period all seemed to use clasp brakes while our modern 100 and 125 ton cars don't, and then it dawned on me... composition brake shoes, which, near as I can tell, were developed in the mid fifties. Prior to that the common brake shoe was cast iron, and there must have been a limit to how much braking force could be developed with eight standard shoes per car, and 70 ton cars must have been pretty much it. Clasp brakes, with two shoes per wheel, double the amount of brake shoe contact are and also equalize the forces on the journal bearings, which probably had a good effect on journal bearing life. Anybody aware of a trade press article on the subject?

Dennis Storzek

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers

Eric Hansmann
 

Were those trucks also equipped with the larger 36-inch diameter wheels?

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2021 9:51 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers

 

For those (like myself) who are picky about such things, the side frames on the Helium car trucks are definitely different from those on the CC/BLE hoppers, but the hopper trucks are the best thing we’ve got right now.

 

Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL



On Feb 19, 2021, at 9:29 AM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

 

RE: Helium Car Trucks -

This is Jay Miller's helium car clinic handout:

Photos of the trucks appear about two-thirds of the way down the article.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

 


Re: heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers

Bruce Smith
 

For those (like myself) who are picky about such things, the side frames on the Helium car trucks are definitely different from those on the CC/BLE hoppers, but the hopper trucks are the best thing we’ve got right now.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

On Feb 19, 2021, at 9:29 AM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

RE: Helium Car Trucks -
This is Jay Miller's helium car clinic handout:
Photos of the trucks appear about two-thirds of the way down the article.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers

Bruce Smith
 

For those (like myself) who are picky about such things, the side frames on the Helium car trucks are definitely different from those on the CC/B&LE hoppers, but the hopper trucks are the best thing we’ve got right now.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

On Feb 19, 2021, at 9:29 AM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

RE: Helium Car Trucks -
This is Jay Miller's helium car clinic handout:
Photos of the trucks appear about two-thirds of the way down the article.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers

Bob Chaparro
 

RE: Helium Car Trucks -

This is Jay Miller's helium car clinic handout:

http://www.atsfrr.org/Reviews/HO/Freight/Helium/HeliumHandout.pdf

Photos of the trucks appear about two-thirds of the way down the article.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: ACL paint scheme

Larry Goolsby
 

Thanks to Ed for his interesting comments. In my early years of watching ACL equipment, I often thought some of the black cars were "gray" but later figured out it was just weathered black. Don't know if I was seeing the ones with paint or with cement. Where I was, many of the hoppers and gons were in sand service, and a coating of that no doubt contributed to the "gray" appearance. And as I saw in later years, cars in the Bone Valley phosphate region ended up not only looking gray due to phosphate dust, but almost white in some cases.  

Larry Goolsby 


Re: Rio Grande PS1

Scott
 

Thank you for all the replies!  Guess I will scratch that idea off the list!  I saw the 1948 build date and just assumed Rio Grande bought them new.  I do have plenty of Pierre's Rio Grands cars to keep me busy though!

Thanks 
Scott McDonald 


Re: heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers

Bud Rindfleisch
 

Corey,
    Yes, those look to be the same 70 ton truck the B&LE used on the three bay "ore" hoppers. While at some point in time the outside brakes were removed just leaving the extended side frames as is. We might have talked before a few months back as I asked if you could upsize the artwork to print these in S scale. I am doing some B&LE hoppers sorely needing these trucks to make them look right. You would need the axle length I'm thinking? While my calipers are not reading properly I'll ask in my S list if anyone can tell the axle length of say the Northwest Shortline code 110 wheelsets.
     Thanks for chiming in on this!
      Bud Rindfleisch


Re: heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers

Tony Thompson
 

Ken Montero wrote:

Roundhouse (Model Die Casting) made such a truck (outside brake hanger) as a part for a kit of B&LE hoppers. The trucks were part no. 2919, "Roller Bearing (heavy duty)". Source: Walthers 1984 HO scale catalog, page 144. I don't know if the roller bearing feature can be cut off and a solid bearing feature can be added.

   Yes, I did that and it was pretty easy.

Tony Thompson




Re: heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers

Kenneth Montero
 

Roundhouse (Model Die Casting) made such a truck (outside brake hanger) as a part for a kit of B&LE hoppers. The trucks were part no. 2919, "Roller Bearing (heavy duty)". Source: Walthers 1984 HO scale catalog, page 144. I don't know if the roller bearing feature can be cut off and a solid bearing feature can be added.
 
Ken Montero

On 02/18/2021 5:30 PM Allan Smith <smithal9@...> wrote:
 
 
 
 
They look very muck like the trucks under the Helium Tank Cars. Just Google Helium Tank Cars and search Tony Thompsons articles and the articles under Amarillo Rail Museum. These trucks are under the MDC Heavy Duty Ore Cars, but with roller bearings.
 
 
Al Smith
Sonora CA
On Thursday, February 18, 2021, 12:10:53 PM PST, Bud Rindfleisch <blackdiamondrr@...> wrote:
 
 
Hello,
    Am looking for info and/or drawings for these outside brake hanger trucks as used on the B&LE hoppers. Any help is appreciated.Want to get them 3D printed.
      Bud Rindfleisch


Re: "steamerafreightcars.com" domain gone?

Tony Thompson
 

Well said, Tim. I follow the same principles.
Tony Thompson 


On Feb 18, 2021, at 3:48 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



I make a small contribution ($3) to the INTERNET ARCHIVE each month, because they preserve
much of what has been lost already!!Yay for the Wayback Machine!! :-)

I support Wikipedia for the same reason - someone has to do it, and I'd hate to lose that resource! :-D


On 2/18/2021 6:41 PM, Dave Parker via groups.io wrote:
It looks like a complete version of steamerafreightcars.com from 11-30-20 (as well as earlier copies) is available on the Wayback Machine.  I didn't look in every nook, but it seemed complete to me.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers-Why?

Dennis Storzek
 

I was giving some thought to these trucks, wondering why high capacity cars (85 and 90 tons capacity) of the pre-war period all seemed to use clasp brakes while our modern 100 and 125 ton cars don't, and then it dawned on me... composition brake shoes, which, near as I can tell, were developed in the mid fifties. Prior to that the common brake shoe was cast iron, and there must have been a limit to how much braking force could be developed with eight standard shoes per car, and 70 ton cars must have been pretty much it. Clasp brakes, with two shoes per wheel, double the amount of brake shoe contact are and also equalize the forces on the journal bearings, which probably had a good effect on journal bearing life. Anybody aware of a trade press article on the subject?

Dennis Storzek


Re: heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers

Todd Sullivan
 

You might want to check Corey Bonsall's products on eBay.  He sells the D&RGW/UCR heavy duty gondola trucks which appear pretty similar.

Todd Sullivan


Re: heavy duty trucks on B&LE hoppers

Corey Bonsall
 

Hi Bud,

I haven't been able to find drawings of those specific trucks, but like Tim mentioned, they were also used on the Carbon County Railway 3 bay hoppers here in Utah.  I had found some drawings of the Vulcan 70 ton outside clasp trucks to use on my Rio Grande projects, and taking those with some photos, managed to draft up and print some HO scale outside clasps that I think do justice to the CBC / B&LE trucks.

I haven't had any listed on Ebay for a while, as they didn't seem to be moving very well, but I have recently done a printing campaign of them again, and am working to get them clipped out and boxed up.  Sized to use Exactrail or Intermountain wheelsets (axle length of 1.004"-ish)    $5 / pair of truckframes + shipping; I think my email should show up on this reply, if interested.




Corey Bonsall

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