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Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California

Bill Parks
 

My guess is the two pictures of tires being unloaded for tires shops were taken at team tracks.  I now have another reason to spot a box car there
--
Bill Parks
Cumming, GA
Modelling the Seaboard Airline in Central Florida
Re: WANTED: NORWEST 113 NP REEFER KIT.

radiodial868
 

I've noticed they occasionally show up on Trainz.com and brasstrains.com 
For a roof alone, the Central Valley Model works roof works if you cut one scale foot from the centerline.


-------------------
RJ Dial
Mendocino, CA
Re: Another Postwar Boxcar

James Brewer
 

Rich,

A nice build; great weathering and paint patches.

Jim Brewer
Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California

Tim O'Connor
 


I think WHITE WALL tires were wrapped - Nobody would buy a blemished white wall, except at a deep discount.



On 11/17/2020 12:50 PM, Douglas Harding wrote:

Attached are some photos of boxcars cars in tire service. Based on the way they are stacked in the car, I would say any boxcar was suitable.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 8:43 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California

 

Garth;

 

I agree that there would have been pools of cars doing this, but I have not found dedicated cars by the PRR that did this.  The dedicated cars mostly had racks, so had to be in dedicated service or the racks would get ripped out (PRR has much angry correspondence on this).  So, I think tire shipments were more a flexible pool that the RRs drew from, since those cars could be used for anything.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 5:23 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California

 

Jim,

 

Auto makers were voracious buyers of tires, and I expect there were pools between major tire makers and auto plants. They needed reliable on-time deliveries, to keep production running. It would be interesting to have others comment on this. I just spent half-an-hour searching the web for this and found nothing, which is typical of the web.

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff  🦆 

 

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 11:32 PM Jim Gates via groups.io <jim.gates=ymail.com@groups.io> wrote:

I believe tires used to come individually wrapped. And they are certainly not as prone to damage as most car parts. I would think that any reasonably clean boxcar would be suitable for tires.

Jim Gates

On Monday, November 16, 2020, 02:49:43 PM CST, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:

 

 

Elden,

 

I second your comments on the complexity of pools. And when it comes to sub-assemblies, one also should consider that some parts were made by contractors. For instance, American Metal Products supplied seat frames and springs to a number of manufacturers. We usually think only of the Big Three manufacturers today, but Willys/Kaiser/Henry J/Frazier/Allstate, Hudson, Packard, Studebaker, Nash and others were still in the game into the 1950s, and these smaller marques likely used many more sourced products than Ford, GM or Chrysler. And remember, every car made in the US came with five tires, and AFAIK, none of auto manufacturers were making their own tires (though Ford had tried). There must also have been pools from the tire manufacturers to auto assembly plants.

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff

 

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 11:03 AM Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Fred;

 

Unfortunately, not yet.  I know a guy that has been working on this for 30+ years with the intention of doing a book(s), but he is overwhelmed with data. 

 

Every RR did their own version of how they handled it, and I am personally overwhelmed with just the PRR part of this, in the moment.

 

In addition, the pools changed almost yearly, with new models, changed models, and the whims of the auto makers.  I can attest to the numerous code changes, stencil changes, rack changes, and classes in use, from what I’ve dug up.

 

For your edification, you may want to look up the various auto and parts plants on-line, to see the enormous number of same in play over the years.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>On Behalf Of Fred Swanson via groups.io
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:41 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California

 

Many cars serving the auto industry were in pool service.  Are there listings or other information on what lines to and from where, when?
Fred Swanson

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Re: Another Postwar Boxcar

Tony Thompson
 

Eric Hansmann wrote:

On wood sheathed cars, those route cards could be found in many locations. There were also plenty of card remnants left behind. I pointed these out in a blog post a couple years ago.

      Anyone who has not looked at this very nice post should do so. The prototype photos are quite interesting.

Tony Thompson
Re: Group of automobile boxcars May 31, 1949

Tim O'Connor
 


NO GARTH IT DOES NOT. I was commenting on a specific photograph of specific cars in a specific place.
I doubt very much that those single sheathed cars, or the CG door-and-a-half car, were involved in automobile
movements in 1949. The MP all steel car, perhaps, but since it's with the other cars, I suspect it's not being used to
transport autos either. Without exact car numbers and a 1949 ORER I can not be certain.



On 11/16/2020 6:32 PM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford wrote:
Tim,

Then does that mean that the Western Pacific really didn't order 100 PS-1 double-door boxcars with Evans Auto Loaders in 1955, their 19301-19400? Or again in 1955, another 150 numbered 19401-19450? And yet another 100 in 1957 numbered 19601-19700 (with roller bearings, though hidden behind flip-up journal box covers)?

Or am I misunderstanding your intent in " . . . double doors could be useful for stick lumber, plywood, or furniture - but not 'automobile' cars at this late date [1949]."?

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆
On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 5:25 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

as for the assortment of road names, MP SP CG were all in nearby states not far from home. the double doors
could be useful for stick lumber, plywood, or furniture - but not 'automobile' cars at this late date



On 11/15/2020 2:46 PM, Charlie Duckworth wrote:
While I was sorting photos for the reweigh project I can across this small shot (2 3/4” by 4 1/2”) Art Johnson taken at Pensacola, Florida.  Behind the Frisco VO-660 is from left to right a PRR, ATSF, Soo Line, T&NO, MP and CoG 50 boxcars.  Anyone know of the industry in the background and why the wide assortment of road names?
Charlie Duckworth 



--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Re: Another Postwar Boxcar

Eric Hansmann
 

Very nice work, Rich. The newer weigh data and repack stencils are outstanding.

 

On wood sheathed cars, those route cards could be found in many locations. There were also plenty of card remnants left behind. I pointed these out in a blog post a couple years ago.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2018/09/14/weathering-ideas/

 

These are easy to add and usually one of the final weathering steps on my models.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Remiarz
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 2:16 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Another Postwar Boxcar

 

NYC Postwar boxcar with route cards.  Tony is correct.  It does’t take much effort to add route cards, but it adds to the prototype look of the car.  I went back to check and saw I missed the route cards on the last few cars I built, ever since I stopped using decals for the route cards.  They have now been added.

 

Sincerely,

Rich Remiarz

Vadnais Heights, MN

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Tony Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 1:55 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Another Postwar Boxcar

 

Rich Remiarz wrote:

 

You are correct.  I realized that after taking the photos.  Route cards will be added today.  I had been adding them with small pieces of white decals at the same time as adding chalk marks, but sometimes they would show woodgrain or the groove between boards on the route card holder, so I am going to try thin paper.

 

     I have occasionally used decals for this, but prefer thin paper, white or yellow or manila. Grab a dot of the canopy glue and you're done <g>.

 

Tony Thompson

 

 

 

 
Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Early 20th Century Freight Cars Photograph

Ray Breyer
 

Shippers have ALWAYS been really rough on freight cars, and if you start looking, you'll find cars with damaged, dangling, or removed doors all over the place. That's why railroads used to stencil the reporting marks and road numbers of cars onto them.

All-wood doors were a favorite to steal, as there was plenty of wood for a shed in them.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL



On Tuesday, November 17, 2020, 02:16:31 PM CST, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:


Guys;

 

I ran across a short group of photos recently that were of a door which had come loose and got knocked off along an elevated ROW.  The door flew off the elevated and crushed a car below.  The owners of the car looked bemused and not a little perturbed.

 

Honestly, it happened a lot.  I have turned up dozens of these incidents.  Forklift operators were experts at knocking doors off their tracks.

 

I saved the photos, but lost them again last week when my laptop blew up (the final time; TAPS playing in background).

 

Sigh.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 2:29 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Early 20th Century Freight Cars Photograph

 

Claus Schlundwrote:



This box car is having a problem with its door - I dare someone to model that!

 

   Only on the RIP track. It would never be allowed out on the road (unless it had JUST happened en route).

 

Tony Thompson

 

 

 
Re: Early 20th Century Freight Cars Photograph

Bruce Smith
 

And if it happened on the road, the car would be set out at the next siding, unless the crew could secure the door in a safe manner. The car, if set out, would either be repaired in place, or have the door secured and moved, likely in a “hospital train” to the next yard with a RIP track where it would be repaired and then sent on its way.  Note that a loaded car would have to have its contents inspected and secured as well.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

On Nov 17, 2020, at 1:28 PM, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:

Claus Schlundwrote:

This box car is having a problem with its door - I dare someone to model that!

   Only on the RIP track. It would never be allowed out on the road (unless it had JUST happened en route).

Tony Thompson
Re: Early 20th Century Freight Cars Photograph

Alice Devenny
 

Group: 

The issue of cars losing their open doors was a problem that time did not heal. In a prior life, I was a Track Supervisor for Conrail with HQ at Colehour Yard in Hammond, IN. The former PRR mainline through South Chicago was part of my territory and included a number of through girder bridges with close clearances. Thanks to these bridges, my gang was out 2-3 times a week to remove errant doors from the tracks. I always had a stack of damaged plug doors sitting at 55th Street Yard. These bridges were the gift that kept giving.... 

Tom Devenny
East Norriton, PA    
Re: Early 20th Century Freight Cars Photograph

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

"unless it had JUST happened en route” … quite likely actually. In Detroit, in the early days of open auto-racks, thieves would climb on the cars and strip the new autos while the train was sometimes in motion. They’s get all the wheels, the radios, and whatever else they could sell quick. It was quite organized. The RR cops were outnumbered and scared to intervene.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Nov 17, 2020, at 2:28 PM, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:

Claus Schlundwrote:

This box car is having a problem with its door - I dare someone to model that!

   Only on the RIP track. It would never be allowed out on the road (unless it had JUST happened en route).

Tony Thompson
Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Pool Service into California

David Soderblom
 

But in both photos shown the tires are going to tire dealers, *not* to factories for installing on new cars.  The Spokane photo shows a fair assortment of tire treads and such.




David Soderblom
Baltimore MD




--
David Soderblom
Baltimore MD
david.soderblom@...
Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Early 20th Century Freight Cars Photograph

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Guys;

 

I ran across a short group of photos recently that were of a door which had come loose and got knocked off along an elevated ROW.  The door flew off the elevated and crushed a car below.  The owners of the car looked bemused and not a little perturbed.

 

Honestly, it happened a lot.  I have turned up dozens of these incidents.  Forklift operators were experts at knocking doors off their tracks.

 

I saved the photos, but lost them again last week when my laptop blew up (the final time; TAPS playing in background).

 

Sigh.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 2:29 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Early 20th Century Freight Cars Photograph

 

Claus Schlundwrote:



This box car is having a problem with its door - I dare someone to model that!

 

   Only on the RIP track. It would never be allowed out on the road (unless it had JUST happened en route).

 

Tony Thompson

 

 

 
Re: Another Postwar Boxcar

Richard Remiarz
 

NYC Postwar boxcar with route cards.  Tony is correct.  It does’t take much effort to add route cards, but it adds to the prototype look of the car.  I went back to check and saw I missed the route cards on the last few cars I built, ever since I stopped using decals for the route cards.  They have now been added.

 

Sincerely,

Rich Remiarz

Vadnais Heights, MN

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Tony Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 1:55 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Another Postwar Boxcar

 

Rich Remiarz wrote:



You are correct.  I realized that after taking the photos.  Route cards will be added today.  I had been adding them with small pieces of white decals at the same time as adding chalk marks, but sometimes they would show woodgrain or the groove between boards on the route card holder, so I am going to try thin paper.

 

     I have occasionally used decals for this, but prefer thin paper, white or yellow or manila. Grab a dot of the canopy glue and you're done <g>.

 

Tony Thompson

 

 

 

 
Re: Another Postwar Boxcar

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Very good-looking car, Rich.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Remiarz
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 1:58 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Another Postwar Boxcar

 

I have continued with my efforts building and detailing plastic freight car kits.  NYC 165138 is a Branchline AAR Postwar boxcar kit.  I remember when these kits first came out. The detailing was so good that I built them stock and added them to the layout, trying to build up a large enough freight car roster for operations.  With now 400+ freight cars now operating on the layout, I can spend some additional time on freight cars, adding appropriate details to better match the prototype.

 

NYC 165138 represents a Lot 763-B car built in April 1946.  To better match the prototype I added poling pockets and roping rings (DA 6214). I used DA coupler cut bars, Kadee#158 scale couplers and 2003 roof walk, IM 0.088 wheelsets, and HiTech Details 6040 air hoses and brackets.  The Klasing brake wheel and brake housing are from Resin Car Works, via Shapeways.  

 

Weathering was done using Pan Pastel Red Iron Oxide Extra Dark, Neutral Grey Shade, and Black, and Polly Scale Rust paint.  Chalk marks and repack data is Sunshine Models decals.  The reweigh data is from Speedwitch D107 NYC 40' Boxcars.

 

Sincerely,

Rich Remiarz

Vadnais Heights, MN
Re: Another Postwar Boxcar

Tony Thompson
 

Rich Remiarz wrote:

You are correct.  I realized that after taking the photos.  Route cards will be added today.  I had been adding them with small pieces of white decals at the same time as adding chalk marks, but sometimes they would show woodgrain or the groove between boards on the route card holder, so I am going to try thin paper.

     I have occasionally used decals for this, but prefer thin paper, white or yellow or manila. Grab a dot of the canopy glue and you're done <g>.

Tony Thompson
Re: Another Postwar Boxcar

Richard Remiarz
 

Tony,

You are correct.  I realized that after taking the photos.  Route cards will be added today.  I had been adding them with small pieces of white decals at the same time as adding chalk marks, but sometimes they would show woodgrain or the groove between boards on the route card holder, so I am going to try thin paper.

Sincerely,
Rich Remiarz


On Nov 17, 2020, at 1:41 PM, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:

  Nice upgrade to the appearance, Rich, fine model. Needs a route card, though <g>.

Tony Thompson
Re: Another Postwar Boxcar

Tony Thompson
 

 Nice upgrade to the appearance, Rich, fine model. Needs a route card, though <g>.

Tony Thompson
Re: Another Postwar Boxcar

Paul Doggett
 

Looks really great 
Paul Doggett.  England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 17 Nov 2020, at 18:58, Richard Remiarz <rremiarz@...> wrote:


I have continued with my efforts building and detailing plastic freight car kits.  NYC 165138 is a Branchline AAR Postwar boxcar kit.  I remember when these kits first came out. The detailing was so good that I built them stock and added them to the layout, trying to build up a large enough freight car roster for operations.  With now 400+ freight cars now operating on the layout, I can spend some additional time on freight cars, adding appropriate details to better match the prototype.

NYC 165138 represents a Lot 763-B car built in April 1946.  To better match the prototype I added poling pockets and roping rings (DA 6214). I used DA coupler cut bars, Kadee#158 scale couplers and 2003 roof walk, IM 0.088 wheelsets, and HiTech Details 6040 air hoses and brackets.  The Klasing brake wheel and brake housing are from Resin Car Works, via Shapeways.  

Weathering was done using Pan Pastel Red Iron Oxide Extra Dark, Neutral Grey Shade, and Black, and Polly Scale Rust paint.  Chalk marks and repack data is Sunshine Models decals.  The reweigh data is from Speedwitch D107 NYC 40' Boxcars.

Sincerely,
Rich Remiarz
Vadnais Heights, MN

Attachments:
Re: Early 20th Century Freight Cars Photograph

Tony Thompson
 

Claus Schlundwrote:

This box car is having a problem with its door - I dare someone to model that!

   Only on the RIP track. It would never be allowed out on the road (unless it had JUST happened en route).

Tony Thompson
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