Date   
Re: NP Mystery Car

Douglas Harding
 

Dan true of the car in the original photo that started this thread. But not of the car in the photo with the coal piles, the car to which Dennis and I were referring.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Daniel A. Mitchell
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 2:34 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] NP Mystery Car

 

The car clearly has TWO doors on the visible side, with door-tracks still in place. NP and several other roads (GN, PRR, etc.) had such ~55-60’ four-door boxcars. It has since had several smaller low doors added, as well as roof hatches. This is quite similar to other cars used for wood chip, slash, and block service.

 

Dan Mitchell

==========



On Feb 26, 2020, at 10:39 AM, Douglas Harding <doug.harding@...> wrote:

 

Notice there is no door on the car, essentially making it an extremely tall gon. That says sawdust or wood chip car when sitting in the Pacific northwest.

 

Doug  Harding

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 8:08 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] NP Mystery Car

 

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 12:27 AM, np328 wrote:

  From the spur that the photographer was on in the prior photo. A D&RGW gon is being unloaded at A E Powell. Note all the different coal sizes.The car to the left appears to have limestone(?) Over the large pile of coal I believe are the towers of the other two train stations.

Can't be limestone, waaay too big a car for any mineral product, must either be sawdust or slash. Was cut slash sold as firewood back in those years?

Dennis Storzek 

 

Re: NP Mystery Car

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

The car clearly has TWO doors on the visible side, with door-tracks still in place. NP and several other roads (GN, PRR, etc.) had such ~55-60’ four-door boxcars. It has since had several smaller low doors added, as well as roof hatches. This is quite similar to other cars used for wood chip, slash, and block service.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Feb 26, 2020, at 10:39 AM, Douglas Harding <doug.harding@...> wrote:

Notice there is no door on the car, essentially making it an extremely tall gon. That says sawdust or wood chip car when sitting in the Pacific northwest.
 
Doug  Harding
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 8:08 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] NP Mystery Car
 
On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 12:27 AM, np328 wrote:
  From the spur that the photographer was on in the prior photo. A D&RGW gon is being unloaded at A E Powell. Note all the different coal sizes.The car to the left appears to have limestone(?) Over the large pile of coal I believe are the towers of the other two train stations.
Can't be limestone, waaay too big a car for any mineral product, must either be sawdust or slash. Was cut slash sold as firewood back in those years?

Dennis Storzek 


Re: Photo: Freight Cars The Departure Yard At Boston Freight Terminal

Schleigh Mike
 

Tim & Group----

The Movie "It Happened to Jane," released in 1959 featured a New Haven SS boxcar, very likely off the roster for revenue but, still extant.

Regards from Grove City, wet and cooling down in western Penna.---Mike Schleigh

On Wednesday, February 26, 2020, 11:45:32 AM EST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Peter,

Why do you think 1948 is relevant? The color photo of south Boston was taken in the late
1950's (a previous source I have says the date is August 1960).

The Rock Island box car was built in 1952, and it is weathered and has a lube stencil patch.
The B&O billboard letters were introduced in the early 1950's (after 1951, for sure). The MEC
box car green paint is from the 1950's and the Cotton Belt double door box car was rebuilt in
1954.

By 1959 the New Haven rostered ZERO wood sheathed box cars, according to the ORER.

Tim O'Connor






On 2/25/2020 2:34 PM, Peter Ness wrote:

Those are all in service cars my friends. Those are not the RIP tracks in South Boston Freight Terminal. Look over by the brick smokestack and sand tower to see two switchers – the S-1 is working and smoking, the HH660 probably idling. Now, since Boston was a terminal, there is no telling how long the foreign road cars lingered before returning home.

 

There are three NH box cars in the photo;

McGinnis scheme (black with large “NH”) behind the Superior reefer

Script herald (BCR, very faded lettering) coupled to the right of the Superior reefer

The storage car that is on the ground to the right of the script herald car and to the left of the RI box car.

Notice there is a phone pole directly behind the script herald boxcar described above.

 

The storage car is one of the NHs old boxes, possibly 70200 series (I have a photo of NH 70218) which were rebuilt in 1935 with steel underframes from earlier NH 170000-170999-series 30-ton box cars.

 

The 40’ steel boxcars arrived beginning 1942 but there were still over 120 wood box cars in service in Sept 1948.  Beginning post-war many of the wood cars were converted to non-revenue service, which is the fate of the car in this photo. A white “NH” is visible above the “W-series” work car number.  Some cars were grounded and used for storage which appears to be the fate of this car. The yellow visible on the side is a patch of paint only so a black lettered stencil could be applied. This could have been applied while the car was still on trucks or not.  Could have said anything from “sand service only” to “property of mechanical dept.”

 

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 1:46 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Freight Cars The Departure Yard At Boston Freight Terminal

 

Agreed it’s a patch, but I think it’s a painted patch, painting out something, like a “return to” notice.  It’s a bit too ragged to be a carpenter’s parch.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 1:42 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Freight Cars The Departure Yard At Boston Freight Terminal

 


It looks like fresh unpainted wood i.e. "patches" to me, Schuyler. I do not recognize
the cars at all. They don't look like anything that I know of from the New Haven. I'm
curious if anyone can figure out what they are. But I agree the photo scan is so poor
that nothing can be inferred about the lettering.

Tim O'Connor



On 2/25/2020 12:32 PM, Schuyler Larrabee via Groups.Io wrote:

I don’t think those are “repairs.”  And at that distance and the age of the cars, dimensions and weight information may be there, faded, but not visible.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of mel perry
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 11:48 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Freight Cars The Departure Yard At Boston Freight Terminal

 

couple of ss boxcars, apparently in inhouse service as all dims and weight

remarks all removed, and appears that

both had repairs to the same spot.on

both.cars, just to the left of the door,

can't remember that being a weak

structural spot in the ss design?

 

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:17 AM Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: Freight Cars The Departure Yard At Boston Freight Terminal

A Donald Haskel photo taken in August 1960:

https://www.railpictures.net/photo/305071/

A good variety of cars and roads.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: CMO 20040 Express Box

steve_wintner
 

Nice thing about those trucks is the styrene sideframe. Easily modified. (Delrin bearings, styrene sideframe)

Re: CMO 20040 Express Box

Lloyd Keyser
 

The C&NW HS had a special run of these trucks made by Overland many years ago. Might check ebay . The brake system shown is a passenger UC brake system. Cal Scale AB300.
Lloyd Keyser

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 1:21 PM Hudson Leighton <hudsonl@...> wrote:
Da Trucks

-Hudson

Re: CMO 20040 Express Box

killercarp
 

Once you solve the truck problem there’s also the 10’6” high 5/5 square corner ends to vex a builder.

Tim VanMersbergen

Re: CMO 20040 Express Box

Hudson Leighton
 

Da Trucks

-Hudson

Re: CMO 20040 Express Box

Dennis Storzek
 

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 09:27 AM, Joseph wrote:
Any thoughts on the trucks under this guy in HO scale?
I can't tell what the top of the side frame looks like from the photo (too much shadow) but Tichy make a short wheelbase drop equalized truck that would fit:

https://www.tichytraingroup.com/Shop/tabid/91/c/trucks/p/3060/Default.aspx

Dennis Storzek

NP Mystery Car

Andy Carlson
 

I am sure that Gregg Martin would have some useful thoughts about hog fuel. Chipping whole logs for paper mills came about strongly in the 1950s. Prior to that time, hog fuel was mostly from sawmill leftovers which could be be diverted from the slash burners (The teepee Hut fire places) leaving mostly saw dust for on site burning, as it seems buyers for waste wood fuel use did not place a high value for saw dust.

Chipping became a big thing for the burgening North West paper mills with their huge demand for wood fiber which the mills found profits from chipping logs into fairly consistent sized chips. The demand for chips reached the point where whole logs were now chipped, no longer was mill waste with the problems of irregular size as valued.

Tim's photos show the type of non-chip loads on early hog fuel cars. Lots of slash which would have  otherwise been sent into the teepee burners. Chip cars and hog fuel cars were serving different markets.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Wednesday, February 26, 2020, 10:08:23 AM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



A couple of photos of hog fuel. There could be large pieces of wood - like firewood logs -
but those were usually loaded into specialized cars or gondolas. I've included a shot of this too.



On 2/26/2020 11:18 AM, Tony Thompson wrote:

Andy Carlson wrote:

Going back to the era of this car I would presume the car to be a Hog Fuel car, hog fuel being the mill slabs and other mill detritus. Chips were to come around later. 

     True about the nomenclature, but not about the product. The great majority of hog fuel that you can see in photos was definitely chips.

Tony Thompson


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Yankee Clipper Kit List

Bill Welch
 

Wondering if anyone has a complete list of the kits with stock numbers offered several years ago by "Yankee Clipper?" I understand these were done for Bill Dulmaine by Steve Funaro but still interested in knowing the kits included originally under the Yankee Clipper label. Thank you.

Bill Welch

Re: CMO 20040 Express Box

Hudson Leighton
 

According to one source:

Originally equipped with Allied Full-Cushion trucks, and changed to the Commonwealth trucks seen in the photo sometime around the early '50s.

-Hudson

Re: NP Mystery Car

Tim O'Connor
 


A couple of photos of hog fuel. There could be large pieces of wood - like firewood logs -
but those were usually loaded into specialized cars or gondolas. I've included a shot of this too.



On 2/26/2020 11:18 AM, Tony Thompson wrote:
Andy Carlson wrote:

Going back to the era of this car I would presume the car to be a Hog Fuel car, hog fuel being the mill slabs and other mill detritus. Chips were to come around later. 

     True about the nomenclature, but not about the product. The great majority of hog fuel that you can see in photos was definitely chips.

Tony Thompson


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Seeking advice on Kadee 4000 boxcar use on Southeastern Road

Ed Hawkins
 


On Feb 25, 2020, at 9:48 AM, Allen Cain <Allencaintn@...> wrote:

I have come into several Kadee 4000 undecorated boxcars 1950-1953 Narrow Tab 40' PS-1 Boxcar with 6' Youngstown Door.
I am seeking advice for info on any southeastern roads that would have used this car in the 1950 to 1955 timeframe. Any suggestions? And if you have photos even better!

Thanks,

Allen Cain

Allen and others interested,

The Kadee 4000-series model represents 40’-6” PS-1 box cars with 6’ door openings built in 1950 thru 1952 & into early 1953 at the Michigan City, Indiana, plant. For your prescribed 1950-1955 timeframe the short answer to your question is that there were no PS-1s built with 6’ door openings built for southeastern railroads matching the Kadee 4000 body, unless it’s modified in various ways.

Explaining further, southeastern railroads purchased their prototype PS-1 box cars built at the Bessemer, Alabama, plant during the period, which came with different end details that are best modeled with the Kadee 4300-series body. The difference is a matrix of 33 stud rivet bolts visible on the ends of cars built at the Bessemer plant in 1950 thru 1952. The stud rivet bolts were used to attach the interior wood lining to the ends, whereas PS-1s built at Michigan City used a different method not requiring the stud rivet bolts after 1949.

Refer to the attached PDF that illustrates a typical end of Bessemer-built PS-1s from 1950 thru 1952. It’s a slide from my 2017 St. Louis RPM presentation on the 40’ PS-1 box car design chronology. Note the end stud rivet bolts with 5 above the uppermost thin corrugation (pressed protrusions), 4 each on the 1st & 3rd major corrugations of the top end sheet, and 4 each on all 5 major corrugations of the bottom end sheet. 

The Kadee 4000 bodies you have could be modified by adding the end rivet heads (i.e., Archer rivets) for various choices of southeastern railroads receiving PS-1s built at Bessemer with 6’ door openings in the 1950-1952 period. These orders include:

1. L&N 16800-17299, 17300-17799, 14600-14999, 17800-18399 in 1950-1951
2. BS 6700-6799 in early 1952
3. NC&StL 22000-22649 in early 1952
4. Georgia 39501-39550 in 3-52
5. Western Railway of Alabama 18100-18209 in 3-52

One additional order was RF&P 2801-2900, however, the RF&P isn’t a southeastern railroad. Refer to the Kadee web site for “out of production” models of these prototype cars in the 4300-series. Numerous other PS-1s were built for southeastern railroads during the 1950-1952 period, and later, but with 8’ or 9’ door openings. 

The only other PS-1s built with 6’ door openings for a southeastern railroad from 1953-1955 was a 4-car order, CG 6208-6211, built 12-54. During this period Bessemer PS-1s no longer used end rivets to fasten the interior wood lining. For cars of this order to be accurate using the Kadee 4000 body requires the bolster to side sill connections (i.e., “bolster tabs”) to be widened, repositioning the end placards from the high to low position per revised AAR guidelines, and removal of the rivets joining the top & bottom end sheets since these 4 prototype CG cars had welded end seams. Hope this helps. 

Regards,
Ed Hawkins





Re: Photo: Freight Cars The Departure Yard At Boston Freight Terminal

Randy Hammill
 

A few more NH single sheathed box cars still in work service through at least 4/62:

T-80, 83 (assigned Maybrook)
T-81 (Oak Point)
T-85 (Cedar Hill)
T-89 (Providence)
T-90, 91, 93 (Boston)

Randy
--

Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com

Re: NP Mystery Car

Tony Thompson
 

Todd Sullivan wrote:

And the "hog" in hog fuel comes from the Norwegian word "hogge" meaning to chop or chip. 

The word (with ancestry in old Norse) indeed means to cut, usually in a destructive way (a common usage is to mean "castrate"). Lumber mills still call their chipping machines "hogs, and machinists continue to refer to making a smallish part out of large stock as "hogging."

Tony Thompson



Re: Sunshine Kits web page

BRIAN PAUL EHNI
 

Thanks to both of you!

Thanks!
Brian Ehni 
(Sent from my iPhone)

On Feb 26, 2020, at 6:35 AM, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:


The Sunshine Kits website has been renewed for another month.


I'm working with Jim to transfer the domain to Resin Car Works ownership. I'll share more details as this develops.



Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN



On February 25, 2020 at 5:20 AM Ryan Laroche <laroche1987@...> wrote:

https://web.archive.org/web/20160324162818/http://sunshinekits.com/index.html

The wayback machine is an excellent resource for situations such as this... 

Ryan Laroche 
Red Deer County, AB

 

Re: Photo: Freight Cars The Departure Yard At Boston Freight Terminal

Randy Hammill
 

I certainly don't question the late date.

Those are definitely NH single sheathed box cars, I'm not sure any other road had a single sheathed box car with a Howe truss and that reverse diagonal in the end panels. They were rebuilt from double sheathed cars in the late '20s (although New Haven records list them as new), and they were in non-revenue service by this time, thus not listed in the ORER.

 


Based on NH documents, these are the single sheathed cars I can confirm still in work service through at least April 1962:

W-1209, 1211, and 1232 (assigned Cedar Hill)
W-1233, 1535, 1536 (assigned Boston)
W-1547 (assigned East Walpole, sold 6/14/60)

There might be a few others, but the majority of the cars appear to have been condemned in the 1956-9 period, after about a decade in work service. 

Randy
--

Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com

Re: CMO 20040 Express Box

Joseph
 

Any thoughts on the trucks under this guy in HO scale?
Thx
Joe Binish
New Hope MN

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 11:18 AM Hudson Leighton <hudsonl@...> wrote:
CMO 20040 Express Box

-Hudson

Re: CMO 20040 Express Box

mel perry
 

NICE DETAILING
mel perry

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020, 9:18 AM Hudson Leighton <hudsonl@...> wrote:
CMO 20040 Express Box

-Hudson

CMO 20040 Express Box

Hudson Leighton
 

CMO 20040 Express Box

-Hudson