Date   

Re: ATSF FT-I and FT-J cross-section

Jake Schaible
 

Thanks Steve.  Not sure why the link didn't take, but you are correct... add back the F at the end. 

Also, please ignore my erroneous mention of Ft-Ia being also Ft-18. F-18 seems to have been the Folio 211 page number. Pardon my mistake.


Re: ATSF FT-I and FT-J cross-section

Steve and Barb Hile
 

You will need to add the f to the bottom link.  This cross section from the rebuilt drawing at least shows the proportional spacing of the underframe girders.

 

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jake Schaible
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 2:54 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF FT-I and FT-J cross-section

 

Ironically, I'm working on the AT&SF FT-J as we speak too... but in N scale. 

You may find this helpful, PJ Student's article re the FT-J (and the Ft-O&P) in HO.  http://magazine.trainlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/ptm_197804.pdf starting on pg 16.
On pg 17, he states the side sill web plates (what Student call the fishbelly) are "inset 16" from the edge of the deck side sill."  No word on spacing of other bellies.  

Incidentally, would love to see other drawing or images of the FT-J.  (So far KSHS has not replied to my request to see their's listed on line here https://www.kshs.org/archives/67594.)

All I have to work with is the grainy Cyril Durrenberger image of the Wt-J in this Student article, but it seems to materially differ from the Student version beyond what he mentions, in that it seems to have 5 subfloor braces that pierce the side sill web plates and extend to flush with the deck side sills - perhaps 3 center as I beam-ish (center and other 2 at the point of the fish belly bend) and the two towards the ends being c or box channels? 

Also, interested in the width of the exposed side sill web plates, not given in the Student article, except as the width of the fishbelly, based on the dimensions of the Train-Miniature donor car, plus scabs he used to join the deck.  

Other that this drawing online of an Ft-Ia (apparently same as Ft-18?)  I can't help much here I've not researched it - but very interested as that is also on my to do list!  http://old.atsfrr.org/resources/zebrowski/folio/ft-pdf/ft-i.pdf

-Jake Schaible

 


Re: Heinz "Coffin Tank" Pickle Cars

Douglas Harding
 

Dave Lieder’s book is good, but focuses on the Midwest Pickle and Vinegar production. It does not contain much on production in California.

 

A map in this 1910 publication  https://archive.org/details/hjheinzcompanypr00hjhe/page/n5/mode/2up shows Heinz had Distributing Warehouses in San Francisco and Los Angeles and Distributing Agencies in Sacramento and San Diego. But all their salting stations and factories were in the upper Midwest and the East. The Coffin cars were used for moving cucumbers from salting stations to factories. You may not see a Heinz coffin car in California. But a lot of cucumbers, including cukes for pickling are raised in California, including the San Joaquin area. That means cukes had to move from salting stations to factories, most likely in vats on flatcars. The coffin cars was one design, used by companies besides Heinz. The covered tanks on a flatcar, ie the Athearn car, was another, used by many companies. Find out who was making pickles in that area, and you may determine what car would be appropriate. Because Athearn make a pickle car, it is most likely Irv saw one from his building and duplicated it, like he did with so many of his cars.

 

One company operating in LA in 1891 was The Western Manufacturing and Pickle Factory.

 

Vinegar is another side of the pickle story. I have a copy of a photo of Heinz vinegar car HJHX 200 taken in 1940 in Roseville CA. So Heinz was moving cars in California close to your specified time.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill J. via groups.io
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 4:22 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Heinz "Coffin Tank" Pickle Cars

 

I found a #83 for sale from Overland in brass.  Wondering if I "need" one for the summer of 1943 in the southern San Joaquin Valley.  I fear they are more of a Midwest than far West car.

Thanks, Eric,

Bill Jolitz


Re: ATSF FT-I and FT-J cross-section

charles slater
 

Richard I have photos of the Ft-I underframe, I tried sending them to you but the goups.io won't allow that
Send me an email to  atsfcondr42@...  and I will be glad to send you the pictures
Charles Slater

Sent from Outlook



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Richard Townsend via groups.io <richtownsend@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2020 8:44 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] ATSF FT-I and FT-J cross-section
 
I'm looking for a cross-section of ATSF FT-I and FT-J flat cars to see how the 4 fish-belly sills were spaced.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


Re: Heinz "Coffin Tank" Pickle Cars

Bill J.
 

I found a #83 for sale from Overland in brass.  Wondering if I "need" one for the summer of 1943 in the southern San Joaquin Valley.  I fear they are more of a Midwest than far West car.

Thanks, Eric,

Bill Jolitz


Re: F&C B&M XM1

George Courtney
 

Good move, Clark,  If it is ever stolen, the police can id it now.


Re: Question about weathering

Tony Thompson
 

Nelson Moyer wrote:

I didn’t include Rule G in my private rulebook, but it’s there in my Employee Rulebook. I’m sure Rule G didn’t apply in business cars . . .

    I am told that this varied quite widely from railroad to railroad, and from CEO to CEO. There were certainly teetotalers and a few on the edge of being lushes, and doubtless everything in between. 

Tony Thompson




Re: Question about weathering

naptownprr
 

I think you mean anecdote unless the beer was poisoned!


Jim  Hunter


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...>
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 3:59 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] Question about weathering
 
This message was sent from a non-IU address. Please exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments from external sources.

I didn’t include Rule G in my private rulebook, but it’s there in my Employee Rulebook. I’m sure Rule G didn’t apply in business cars, based upon an antidote about Ralph Budd and James Hill. James was having an earnest disagreement with Ralph about some aspect of railroad business when the steward brought them a tray of Budweiser. Hill quipped, “Ah, Anheuser-Busch to make Budd wiser”.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 2:48 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Question about weathering

 

David Burnett wrote:



are you thinking of non model railroad usage?

 

Auxiliary use only. <g>

 

Tony Thompson

 

 


Re: Question about weathering

Nelson Moyer
 

I didn’t include Rule G in my private rulebook, but it’s there in my Employee Rulebook. I’m sure Rule G didn’t apply in business cars, based upon an antidote about Ralph Budd and James Hill. James was having an earnest disagreement with Ralph about some aspect of railroad business when the steward brought them a tray of Budweiser. Hill quipped, “Ah, Anheuser-Busch to make Budd wiser”.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 2:48 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Question about weathering

 

David Burnett wrote:



are you thinking of non model railroad usage?

 

Auxiliary use only. <g>

 

Tony Thompson

 

 


Re: F&C B&M XM1

Paul Doggett
 

Clark 

The fingerprint is the most important thing 😁😁😷 a nice looking build.

Paul Doggett.   England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 25 Sep 2020, at 20:49, Clark Propst <cepropst@q.com> wrote:


Jason Klocke came up with a photo of one of these cars with the old door on either the DCI or FtDDM&S, don’t remember which? He picked up this flat kit off eBay cheap. The kit came with the KD #5s and sprung trucks. I traded labor for merchandise and built this model as part of the bargain. Spent a couple hours three afternoons to finish. I put a coat of primer (and a finger print) on it before putting it in the box.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

Attachments:


Re: ATSF FT-I and FT-J cross-section

Jake Schaible
 

Ironically, I'm working on the AT&SF FT-J as we speak too... but in N scale. 

You may find this helpful, PJ Student's article re the FT-J (and the Ft-O&P) in HO.  http://magazine.trainlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/ptm_197804.pdf starting on pg 16.
On pg 17, he states the side sill web plates (what Student call the fishbelly) are "inset 16" from the edge of the deck side sill."  No word on spacing of other bellies.  

Incidentally, would love to see other drawing or images of the FT-J.  (So far KSHS has not replied to my request to see their's listed on line here https://www.kshs.org/archives/67594.)

All I have to work with is the grainy Cyril Durrenberger image of the Wt-J in this Student article, but it seems to materially differ from the Student version beyond what he mentions, in that it seems to have 5 subfloor braces that pierce the side sill web plates and extend to flush with the deck side sills - perhaps 3 center as I beam-ish (center and other 2 at the point of the fish belly bend) and the two towards the ends being c or box channels? 

Also, interested in the width of the exposed side sill web plates, not given in the Student article, except as the width of the fishbelly, based on the dimensions of the Train-Miniature donor car, plus scabs he used to join the deck.  

Other that this drawing online of an Ft-Ia (apparently same as Ft-18?)  I can't help much here I've not researched it - but very interested as that is also on my to do list!  http://old.atsfrr.org/resources/zebrowski/folio/ft-pdf/ft-i.pdf

-Jake Schaible

 


WP CONVEERTED CABOOSE

WILLIAM PARDIE
 






Here is a shot of the converted box car WP caboose.  It is a Westside model and I picked it up finished at a train show. That is until I compared it with a prototype photo and noticed how inboard the trucks were placed too far inboard.  I got the model out this morning and held the under frame from Andy’s WP box car up against it.
I can see how to correct it but I have too many other projects on the pallet right now.

Bill Pardie


Re: Question about weathering

Tony Thompson
 

David Burnett wrote:

are you thinking of non model railroad usage?

Auxiliary use only. <g>

Tony Thompson




Re: F&C B&M XM1

Benjamin Hom
 

Clark Propst wrote:
"Jason Klocke came up with a photo of one of these cars with the old door on either the DCI or FtDDM&S, don’t remember which?"

Here's a Jim Sands photo of a car that went to the FDDM&S with a Youngstown door:


Ben Hom


Re: ATSF FT-I and FT-J cross-section

Steve SANDIFER
 

Richard says, “These cars had four fishbelly sills, with the outer sills approximately parallel with the wheel treads.”

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Townsend via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2020 10:45 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] ATSF FT-I and FT-J cross-section

 

I'm looking for a cross-section of ATSF FT-I and FT-J flat cars to see how the 4 fish-belly sills were spaced.

Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR


Re: Question about weathering

David Burnett
 

Tony,

are you thinking of non model railroad usage?

DSB.
David S. Burnett


On Friday, September 25, 2020, 10:54:34 AM PDT, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:


Rob Manley wrote:

As long as you are using Pan Pastels, you can use them as washes. Apply to the model and with a stiff bristle artist oil brush or alcohol moistened Q-Tip, and manipulate the color on the model.

     I have experimented with using alcohol this way and it does a nice job.

 Gin or Vodka works as well.

      Don't have any that would surplus for this kind of use.  <g>

Tony Thompson




F&C B&M XM1

Clark Propst
 

Jason Klocke came up with a photo of one of these cars with the old door on either the DCI or FtDDM&S, don’t remember which? He picked up this flat kit off eBay cheap. The kit came with the KD #5s and sprung trucks. I traded labor for merchandise and built this model as part of the bargain. Spent a couple hours three afternoons to finish. I put a coat of primer (and a finger print) on it before putting it in the box.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: Photos: PRR Boxcar 501822 (1939)

vapeurchapelon
 

Many thanks, Bruce!
 
Of course there isn't a brass model of these (otherwise I probably would know or even already have it :-))
Though 750 cars is a small series for a railroad empire like PRR, in my eyes it's enough to justify one in a freight train and not to be viewed as too "odd-ball".
 
Thanks again
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Freitag, 25. September 2020 um 19:52 Uhr
Von: "Bruce Smith" <smithbf@...>
An: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: PRR Boxcar 501822 (1939)
 
Johannes,
 
With respect to the X23 fleet the X23B is a bit of an "oddball" with only around 750 or so being converted with what was essentially an X31 roof. 
 
I am not aware of any brass models of this car, and one of the issues with kitbashing it is that, as you may notice from the photo, these cars mostly had their side sheathing converted from vertical to horizontal, with the concurrent deletion of the intermediate braces. 
 
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@...>
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 12:43 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: PRR Boxcar 501822 (1939)
 
What a beautyful car! Would love to have a (brass) model of it. How many were built, and for how long were they used?
 
Many thanks and greetings
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Freitag, 25. September 2020 um 19:28 Uhr
Von: "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: [RealSTMFC] Photos: PRR Boxcar 501822 (1939)

Photos: PRR Boxcar 501822 (1939)

Photos from the Hagley Digital Archives:

https://digital.hagley.org/PRR_11778?solr_nav%5Bid%5D=19b1adcfdf21984ad3ff&solr_nav%5Bpage%5D=4&solr_nav%5Boffset%5D=7

https://digital.hagley.org/PRR_11777?solr_nav%5Bid%5D=19b1adcfdf21984ad3ff&solr_nav%5Bpage%5D=4&solr_nav%5Boffset%5D=15

Caption says this is an X23b.

Click on photos to enlarge them.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Question about weathering

Tony Thompson
 

Rob Manley wrote:

As long as you are using Pan Pastels, you can use them as washes. Apply to the model and with a stiff bristle artist oil brush or alcohol moistened Q-Tip, and manipulate the color on the model.

     I have experimented with using alcohol this way and it does a nice job.

 Gin or Vodka works as well.

      Don't have any that would surplus for this kind of use.  <g>

Tony Thompson




Re: Photos: PRR Boxcar 501822 (1939)

Bruce Smith
 

Johannes,

With respect to the X23 fleet the X23B is a bit of an "oddball" with only around 750 or so being converted with what was essentially an X31 roof. 

I am not aware of any brass models of this car, and one of the issues with kitbashing it is that, as you may notice from the photo, these cars mostly had their side sheathing converted from vertical to horizontal, with the concurrent deletion of the intermediate braces. 

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@...>
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 12:43 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: PRR Boxcar 501822 (1939)
 
What a beautyful car! Would love to have a (brass) model of it. How many were built, and for how long were they used?
 
Many thanks and greetings
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Freitag, 25. September 2020 um 19:28 Uhr
Von: "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: [RealSTMFC] Photos: PRR Boxcar 501822 (1939)

Photos: PRR Boxcar 501822 (1939)

Photos from the Hagley Digital Archives:

https://digital.hagley.org/PRR_11778?solr_nav%5Bid%5D=19b1adcfdf21984ad3ff&solr_nav%5Bpage%5D=4&solr_nav%5Boffset%5D=7

https://digital.hagley.org/PRR_11777?solr_nav%5Bid%5D=19b1adcfdf21984ad3ff&solr_nav%5Bpage%5D=4&solr_nav%5Boffset%5D=15

Caption says this is an X23b.

Click on photos to enlarge them.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

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