Date   

Re: Green Frog Anomaly?

Todd Horton
 

The early C of G gons were painted black. The color change to FCR stated about 1948. I photographed a former C of G USRA clone in NS MofW service back in the 90's still in black paint. 
 
Todd Horton



From: "gsc3@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2017 5:27 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Green Frog Anomaly?

 
I was watching a Green Frog Preview of their New York Central Odyssey Vo.l and spotted either an anomaly or really soilid weathering on a Central of Georgia 40' 10 post gondola.  It occurs at the 3:39 mark.  A NYC switcher is pulling two gons.  The first is a clearly freight car red L&N 40' gon.  The typical L&N red is clear.  The second car is the Central of Georgia in what appears to be a badly faded black paint scheme.  I've seen several of these CG gons and all were freight car red in tone, none black.
Just curious if anyone else has seen that DVD or it's showing on youTube and has an explanation why the CG gon appears so black?  It's the comparison to the L&N gon next to it that suggest to me it can't all be color shift.  Anyone aware of CG painting their gons blacks and the time period?  Perhaps in the early 60's?  It has the same lettering as the Sunshine Central of Georiga kit.

Thanks,
George Courtney



Re: Green Frog Anomaly?

George Courtney
 

Was able to answer my own question.  Central of Georgia gons were painted black upto 1944.  But this photo suggest it's at least 6 to 10 following that.  So anew, anyone with a good guess as to when that was filmed in the Green Frog DVD?


Green Frog Anomaly?

George Courtney
 

I was watching a Green Frog Preview of their New York Central Odyssey Vo.l and spotted either an anomaly or really soilid weathering on a Central of Georgia 40' 10 post gondola.  It occurs at the 3:39 mark.  A NYC switcher is pulling two gons.  The first is a clearly freight car red L&N 40' gon.  The typical L&N red is clear.  The second car is the Central of Georgia in what appears to be a badly faded black paint scheme.  I've seen several of these CG gons and all were freight car red in tone, none black.

Just curious if anyone else has seen that DVD or it's showing on youTube and has an explanation why the CG gon appears so black?  It's the comparison to the L&N gon next to it that suggest to me it can't all be color shift.  Anyone aware of CG painting their gons blacks and the time period?  Perhaps in the early 60's?  It has the same lettering as the Sunshine Central of Georiga kit.


Thanks,

George Courtney


Re: Accurail Truss Rod Conversion [was] C&A 36 foot boxcar

Ray Breyer
 

>>A bigger problem is this will remove only about half the steel end sill, but this is all styrene, the sill can be cut off and a slice 
>>of an extra body can be spliced on. Evergreen HO scale scribed car siding could possibly also be used, as both are supposedly 
>>the same groove spacing; I've just never tried it. 


>>Dennis Storzek


I have Dennis; on a conversion into an MC auto box. I'll send you photos offlist in a minute.
Visually, the board spacing IS almost identical between your cars and .020" thick Evergreen car siding. Sadly, nobody makes Camel door hardware so I had to fudge a lot on my first test build. I need to railroad one of my 3D CAD buddies into printing up good door hardware sets....

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL



Accurail Truss Rod Conversion [was] C&A 36 foot boxcar

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <rtbsvrr69@...> wrote :

If anyone's thinking about converting an Accurail shorty into a trussrodded car, keep in mind that it's a BIG boxcar for the pre-WWI period, and would have been a 40 ton, six rod car.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL
===============

The Accurail car models a ca. 1912 steel underframe car with a 12'-7.5" height to the eaves. This can be reduced by slicing the steel side sill and bolster ends off the body, and sanding the floor narrower (before the crossbearers are installed) so it slips past the ledge in the body. With the bolsters flush with the bottom of the car siding, the eave height will be about 12'-1", or the bolsters can be allowed to protrude for a bit more height.

A bigger problem is this will remove only about half the steel end sill, but this is all styrene, the sill can be cut off and a slice of an extra body can be spliced on. Evergreen HO scale scribed car siding could possibly also be used, as both are supposedly the same groove spacing; I've just never tried it. 


Dennis Storzek


Re: C&A 36 foot boxcar

earlyrail
 

Or, we're talking about different cars from the SAME time period. I've got clear photos of nine C&A trussrodded boxcars. Only one car clearly has four rods, and that car was built in the 1870s.
C&A 4468, 4 trussrods, built ca.1875
C&A 7213, 6 trussrods, built ca.1889
C&A 7786, 6 trussrods, built 1899
C&A 13130, unknown, built 1897-1899 (and 1904, according to the ICC val report), LoC image
C&A 15281, unknown, built 1899. LoC image
C&A 27469, 6 trussrods, built 1906
C&A 36839, 6 trussrods, built 1906
C&A 36959, 6 trussrods, built 1906
C&A car at Monticello (supposedly 3516, which is probably wrong), 6 trussrods.

Earlier, shorter cars (35' and less) in the 20 and 30 ton capacity range usually had only four trussrods, while longer cars (45-foot furniture cars), and anything above 35 tons had six trussrods. So it's "likely" that the two cars mentioned in LoC image 4a20233 only have four since they're 30 ton cars. But even playing with various values of the 157 meg Tiff file can't say one way or another (and the 1910 C&A diagram book isn't any help either). Both four and six trussrods were "typical for the day", depending on how much weight the underframe was supposed to bear.

My knowledge is just from the LOC photo. Yes, these are 34' cars, not 36'. and are 60k capacity
15281 definitely has 4 truss rods as the 3 of the 4 ends can be seen on the car end.
13130 appears to have 4 truss rods, looking carefully at the photo you can see 3 rods, and the spacing seems to indicate only 4 of them.

Howard Garner


Re: C&A 36 foot boxcar

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <rtbsvrr69@...>

Earlier, shorter cars (35' and less) in the 20 and 30 ton capacity range usually had only four trussrods, while longer cars (45-foot furniture cars), and anything above 35 tons had six trussrods. So it's "likely" that the two cars mentioned in LoC image 4a20233 only have four since they're 30 ton cars. But even playing with various values of the 157 meg Tiff file can't say one way or another (and the 1910 C&A diagram book isn't any help either). Both four and six trussrods were "typical for the day", depending on how much weight the underframe was supposed to bear.
======================

The LoC photo of C&A 15281 definitely shows only four truss rods. The thing about truss rods is they have to terminate somewhere, and anchoring to a casting attached to the side sill like a passenger car is extremely rare on freight cars. Plus, the truss rods passing through the end sills is what holds them on. Since we can see one end of C&A 15281 in the photo, the termination of three of the four rods clearly shows; two on the buffer block, and one on the near corner bracket, and I see no reason to suspect there isn't a similar one on the far corner. If the car would have had six truss rods, there would be another nut and forged washer midway between the corner and buffer block.

Dennis Storzek



HO Scale Freight Cars and Railway Prototype Cyclopedias For Sale

Matthew Dowd
 

All,


I have a short list of HO scale freight car (Brass, plastic and resin) Kits for sale along with 3 RP CYC volumes. Please email me OFF LIST for a copy using matt DOT dowd4 AT sbcglobal DOT NET. Thank you, and please ignore my earlier post about these items which was posted in error. 


-Matthew Dowd


Re: early covered hoppers

Andy Miller
 

I wonder if these Libby-Owens cars were how the category of freight car came to be classed “LO”.



Andy miller



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 11:12 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: early covered hoppers





Group,



Amazingly a picture of these cars in the later LOFX scheme has come to light in the reprints of the Rock Island Rocket magazines from the 1960s. This small photo was printed in the May-June 1963 issue. Using the photo of LOFX 301, a 1958 cuft ACF covered hopper, should allow creating decals to letter these cars in a more current paint scheme.



I'm not sure how many people are interested in this, but wanted to pass it along.



Link to photo:

https://goo.gl/photos/pYnnTb2qqA5DoxGy9



Eric Mumper



---In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, <eric.mumper@...> wrote :

Group,



This is a new thread, but is part of the conversation on pre-WWII covered hoppers. One of the earliest of covered hoppers are the ones shown in the August of 1964 Model Railroader and offered by F&C as kit 6370. These were built in 1925 by the Bettendorf company for The National Plate Glass Company with reporting marks of NPGX. By the 1953 ORER these cars are now the property of Libbey-Owens-Ford glass company with reporting marks LOFX and appear to have car numbers 150-159, 170-173, and 201-210.



Does anybody happen to have a photo of these cars? MR only has a drawing and the heading "Covered hopper for silica sand". These may have been in captive service from the glass plant at Naplate, IL to Ottawa Silica Company for a distance of less than 5 miles. Not sure where MR got the info to do the drawing, but if I had to guess it would have been an add in a Car Builders Cyc. Sure would be great to actually have a picture of one of these. Thanks.



Eric Mumper


Re: C&A 36 foot boxcar

Ray Breyer
 

>>These have 4 truss rods and are all wood construction.  Typical for the day.
>>Downloading the large tiff file from the LOC and all details can be seen, right down
>>to the lettering on the trucks.
>>From Ray Breyer's post, it appears that the car in Monticello is from a later period.
>>Howard Garner


Or, we're talking about different cars from the SAME time period. I've got clear photos of nine C&A trussrodded boxcars. Only one car clearly has four rods, and that car was built in the 1870s.
C&A 4468, 4 trussrods, built ca.1875
C&A 7213, 6 trussrods, built ca.1889
C&A 7786, 6 trussrods, built 1899
C&A 13130, unknown, built 1897-1899 (and 1904, according to the ICC val report), LoC image
C&A 15281, unknown, built 1899. LoC image
C&A 27469, 6 trussrods, built 1906
C&A 36839, 6 trussrods, built 1906
C&A 36959, 6 trussrods, built 1906
C&A car at Monticello (supposedly 3516, which is probably wrong), 6 trussrods.

Earlier, shorter cars (35' and less) in the 20 and 30 ton capacity range usually had only four trussrods, while longer cars (45-foot furniture cars), and anything above 35 tons had six trussrods. So it's "likely" that the two cars mentioned in LoC image 4a20233 only have four since they're 30 ton cars. But even playing with various values of the 157 meg Tiff file can't say one way or another (and the 1910 C&A diagram book isn't any help either). Both four and six trussrods were "typical for the day", depending on how much weight the underframe was supposed to bear.

The car in Monticello seems to be a 36000-series car; the 3516 number may have been its MOW number at one point. 1906 is slightly newer than 1899, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it from another era.

If anyone's thinking about converting an Accurail shorty into a trussrodded car, keep in mind that it's a BIG boxcar for the pre-WWI period, and would have been a 40 ton, six rod car.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL





SUNSHINE TANK CAR

Gary Wildung
 

All the Sunshine tank cars have been sold Still have some loads and NP Cars left

Thank to everybody that looked.

Gary Wildung


Re: AC&Y HO-scale decals

 

AC&Y decals sold.  HTG


Re: early covered hoppers

Eric Mumper
 

Group,

Amazingly a picture of these cars in the later LOFX scheme has come to light in the reprints of the Rock Island Rocket magazines from the 1960s.  This small photo was printed in the May-June 1963 issue.  Using the photo of LOFX 301, a 1958 cuft ACF covered hopper, should allow creating decals to letter these cars in a more current paint scheme.

I'm not sure how many people are interested in this, but wanted to pass it along.

Link to photo:

Eric Mumper


---In STMFC@..., <eric.mumper@...> wrote :

Group,


This is a new thread, but is part of the conversation on pre-WWII covered hoppers.  One of the earliest of covered hoppers are the ones shown in the August of 1964 Model Railroader and offered by F&C as kit 6370.  These were built in 1925 by the Bettendorf company for The National Plate Glass Company with reporting marks of NPGX.  By the 1953 ORER these cars are now the property of Libbey-Owens-Ford glass company with reporting marks LOFX and appear to have car numbers 150-159, 170-173, and 201-210.


Does anybody happen to have a photo of these cars?  MR only has a drawing and the heading "Covered hopper for silica sand".  These may have been in captive service from the glass plant at Naplate, IL to Ottawa Silica Company for a distance of less than 5 miles.  Not sure where MR got the info to do the drawing, but if I had to guess it would have been an add in a Car Builders Cyc.  Sure would be great to actually have a picture of one of these.  Thanks.


Eric Mumper


Focus on Freight Cars, Volume Eleven: Express and Head-End Cars

Ted Culotta
 

All good things must come to an end (unless the rest of the negatives in the Urac Collection are unearthed). It is bittersweet to announce the last volume of the Focus on Freight Cars series. I have managed to comb through the negatives and publish what I can, but the well has run dry. Volume Eleven covers the photos of express refrigerator and box cars plus baggage and RPO equipment. It is currently available for pre-order at the discounted price of $40.00 through June 10, 2017 ($46.00 thereafter). More details about the content as well as ordering information may be found by clicking this link.

For this who are curious, there will be additional works based upon the collection, including passenger equipment and locomotives, both heavily skewed towards Southern Pacific and Santa Fe subjects.

Thank you for your support. Also, I will be releasing Prototype Railroad Modeling, Volume Four in July, so please stay tuned for details about that title.

Apologies if you receive this message elsewhere, too.

Cheers,
Ted 



Re: USRA Andrews truck plans

Woody of Whangas
 

Hi Folks!

While a detailed drawing of the USRA 50-ton Andrews truck has proved to be very elusive, I wish to thank Rich Orr for pointing me at a diagram (in the Pennsy RR files collection) of the correct truck, and also thank Brian Leppert for going above and beyond the call of duty by providing scans of original drawings of what appears to be a close relative, which combined with the Pennsy truck diagram should allow me to get the job done.

Thanks also to Dennis Storzek and David Parker for their input; the truck in the Railroad Mechanical Engineer turned out to be a 70-tonner, not the 50-ton truck I was looking for, but still very useful.  Those old periodicals for engineers contain a wealth of information, and some very good drawings of freight cars.

Regards
Paul Woods

Whangarei, NZ.


Re: C&A 36 foot boxcar

earlyrail
 

Howard, how many truss rods for these boxcars and what type of steel ends did they have? Did you have custom decals made for your cars or did you cut and paste from commercially available ones, and if so which ones?
Gary Laakso

These have 4 truss rods and are all wood construction. Typical for the day. My decals I created myself and are exact duplicates of the car lettering. These were built as part of my MRR program.
Downloading the large tiff file from the LOC and all details can be seen, righ down to the lettering on the trucks.

From Ray Breyer's post, it appears that the car in Monticello is from a later period.

Howard Garner


Re: DL&W #46982, photo attached

MDelvec952
 

Photo of DL&W 46929 is attached ....Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: MDelvec952@aol.com [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
To: STMFC <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, May 29, 2017 11:05 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: DL&W #46982, was two three domed tank cars















Coming to this party late, but none of this series of cars were rebuilt by DL&W. They were retired as wood-bodied cars. This series had Youngstown doors. The F&C resin model for these cars is quite faithful. Nearly all in service cars got the 1942 Phoebe billboard scheme, but none are known to have seen the 1955 bolder billboard.


....Mike Del Vecchio



-----Original Message-----
From: Brian LaManna brianlamanna@hotmail.com [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
To: STMFC <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, May 29, 2017 6:03 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: DL&W #46982, was two three domed tank cars







List,


These DL&W cars are covered in Ted C's Essential Freight Cars #21, "ARA double-sheathed box and auto cars." The article includes a roster. Our number 46982 was built in 1927 in the series 46500-46999. They had 4/4 dreadnaught end, Ajax hand brakes, Youngstown Steel doors and Hutchins Dr Lading roofs as per the roster. These cars -- along with similar Lehigh Valley cars -- were not true ARA double sheathed cars as they had underlying structural members in a Howe truss. This is again, all from Ted's RMC article. Any mistakes are all my own.

These cars appear quite a few times in the Morning Sun Lackawanna books and some definitely made it well into the diesel era with their wood sides intact.

I was actually about to purchase an F&C kit of these cars for my planned mid 50's Lackawanna layout.

Cheers,

Brian LaManna/Moncton, NB


From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@verizon.net [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: May 29, 2017 6:37:52 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DL&W #46982, was two three domed tank cars



No luck yet on a photo, Don, but in the ’53 ORER, these are listed as having a steel center sill, the last such series before a notation that the cars in the subsequent numerical series* are “all steel.” There is also a note saying “z-bar,” and I have yet to find a listing of abbreviations which would explain what that means. Actually, I would not be very surprised to find that these were wood sheathed to the end. There were more wood sheathed cars in the late 40s- early50s than we realize.

*I do realize that not all car series are logically numbered in sequence, and build dates may not be sequential.

Schuyler

Don Valentine wrote:

Thank you Bill & Schuyler for your help. Some additional photos of the class would be

helpful if any turn up. I'm having a hard time accepting outside wood sheathing on the

car given the treatment of the end and the steel framing exposed at the bottom. first time

I recall seeing either of these features on a double-sheathed car that had bot received

new steel sides.

Thanks again, Don Valentine

---In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote :

Hello Don,

Per the ELHS reprint of the 1952 DL&W Freight Equipment diagram book, 46982 is one of a series 46800-46999, built by M.C. Corp. Sept 1927. The doors are listed for the larger series 46500-46999 as Superior & Youngstown Steel Side doors. I agree that it appears like a rebuild of, perhaps, a USRA car, but there is no mention of a rebuilding on the diagram page, which is consistently provided for those series where that is, in fact, the case.

This diagram book is still available, I think, from the ELHS.

Schuyler

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 9:37 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: two three domed tank cars

There are two additional cars in the 4th photo ahead of the two showing the tank cars as well.

The first car, though 4th in the train, while the other is the DL&W #46982. I cannot make out

the sheathing of the DL&W car. It looks to be some sort of steel rebuild of a double sheathed

car but I'm not certain. Does anyone know?

As for the tank cars, those early style vents are avaiable as nice lost wax castings from Owl

Mountain.

Cordially, Don Valentine

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: DL&W #46982, was two three domed tank cars

MDelvec952
 





Coming to this party late, but none of this series of cars were rebuilt by DL&W. They were retired as wood-bodied cars. This series had Youngstown doors. The F&C resin model for these cars is quite faithful. Nearly all in service cars got the 1942 Phoebe billboard scheme, but none are known to have seen the 1955 bolder billboard.

            ....Mike Del Vecchio


-----Original Message-----
From: Brian LaManna brianlamanna@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Mon, May 29, 2017 6:03 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: DL&W #46982, was two three domed tank cars

 
List,

These DL&W cars are covered in Ted C's Essential Freight Cars #21, "ARA double-sheathed box and auto cars."  The article includes a roster.  Our number 46982 was built in 1927 in the series 46500-46999.  They had 4/4 dreadnaught end, Ajax hand brakes, Youngstown Steel doors and Hutchins Dr Lading roofs as per the roster.  These cars -- along with similar Lehigh Valley cars -- were not true ARA double sheathed cars as they had underlying structural members in a Howe truss.  This is again, all from Ted's RMC article.  Any mistakes are all my own.  

These cars appear quite a few times in the Morning Sun Lackawanna books and some definitely made it well into the diesel era with their wood sides intact.  

I was actually about to purchase an F&C kit of these cars for my planned mid 50's Lackawanna layout.

Cheers,

Brian LaManna/Moncton, NB

From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: May 29, 2017 6:37:52 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DL&W #46982, was two three domed tank cars
 
 
No luck yet on a photo, Don, but in the ’53 ORER, these are listed as having a steel center sill, the last such series before a notation that the cars in the subsequent numerical series* are “all steel.” There is also a note saying “z-bar,” and I have yet to find a listing of abbreviations which would explain what that means. Actually, I would not be very surprised to find that these were wood sheathed to the end. There were more wood sheathed cars in the late 40s- early50s than we realize.

*I do realize that not all car series are logically numbered in sequence, and build dates may not be sequential.

Schuyler

Don Valentine wrote:

Thank you Bill & Schuyler for your help. Some additional photos of the class would be

helpful if any turn up. I'm having a hard time accepting outside wood sheathing on the

car given the treatment of the end and the steel framing exposed at the bottom. first time

I recall seeing either of these features on a double-sheathed car that had bot received

new steel sides.

Thanks again, Don Valentine

---In STMFC@..., wrote :

Hello Don,

Per the ELHS reprint of the 1952 DL&W Freight Equipment diagram book, 46982 is one of a series 46800-46999, built by M.C. Corp. Sept 1927. The doors are listed for the larger series 46500-46999 as Superior & Youngstown Steel Side doors. I agree that it appears like a rebuild of, perhaps, a USRA car, but there is no mention of a rebuilding on the diagram page, which is consistently provided for those series where that is, in fact, the case.

This diagram book is still available, I think, from the ELHS.

Schuyler

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 9:37 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: two three domed tank cars

There are two additional cars in the 4th photo ahead of the two showing the tank cars as well.

The first car, though 4th in the train, while the other is the DL&W #46982. I cannot make out

the sheathing of the DL&W car. It looks to be some sort of steel rebuild of a double sheathed

car but I'm not certain. Does anyone know?

As for the tank cars, those early style vents are avaiable as nice lost wax castings from Owl

Mountain.

Cordially, Don Valentine

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: DL&W #46982,

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Thank you, Dennis.



Schuyler



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 6:50 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: DL&W #46982, was two three domed tank cars









---In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote :

No luck yet on a photo, Don, but in the ’53 ORER, these are listed as having a steel center sill, the last such series before a notation that the cars in the subsequent numerical series* are “all steel.” There is also a note saying “z-bar,” and I have yet to find a listing of abbreviations which would explain what that means...

====================
Schuyler, That notation in the ORER normally means the car had "Z bar eaves" (inset eaves, no overhang, like a AAR standard steel car) Since the AAR had aquired the rights to the design and made it available to the car builders.



Dennis Storzek


Re: SAL 40'6" DD Boxcars

rdietrichson
 

Hi again,

My bad. I was thinking of another project on my bench, which is not the car I was trying to find out about when I first posted. The car I was asking about is a SAL car, in the 150000-150999 series. Sorry for the confusion.

Again, thanks for any help.

Rick Dietrichson
Wilmington, NC

35181 - 35200 of 185091