Date   
More WP West Coast Meat Reefer Data

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Good Friends,

After my response to RJ about west coast meat reefer traffic, I decided to parse WP Circular 167-E to see what else could be gleaned from that document about meat traffic. This is not like having real train consists, but does give some ideas about where the cars went and possibly how important, or unimportant, this traffic was. The circular lists all WP/SN/TS/CCT/OT/ABL customers as of 1957, as well as SP/ATSF/UP/Shortline customers in joint switching districts, or where cars would have been received or delivered to/from other roads for local delivery. As such, it doesn't tell us much about traffic on those other railroads, just the possibility of WP interchanging meat reefers there.

So on the WP itself we have 12 destinations for "PHP" (packing house products) or "meat". I wonder if the difference was that "meat" meant animal carcasses for further processing, while "PHP" was pre-packaged meat products, or possibly still unpackaged but processed products which would be wrapped for sale at the destination. In addition, there were 8 destinations for "groceries", meaning general grocery wholesalers, or distribution centers owned by large chains (like Safeway) which might have received meat products along with other food shipments. There was also 1 receiver of poultry products. All these customers had sidings with a total of 45 spots, which says something about how much traffic they received (most appear to be small re-distribution centers with just one or two spots--very model railroad-sized operations). I noted that generally the grocery wholesalers had more spots than the meat distribution centers.

On WP's subsidiary Sacramento Northern (SN) there were 2 grocery wholesalers with a total of 12 spots. The Tidewater Southern (TS) contributed 1 grocery house with 4 spots. There no customers who received only PHP or meat.

There were no PHP or grocery customers listed for WP's partial subsidiaries Oakland Terminal Railway (OT), Central California Traction Co. (CCT) or Alameda Belt Line (ABL).

In addition, some customers received their shipments at team tracks, which are not listed as specific to any road, and have no spot counts. 11 customers received PHP or meat via team tracks, with 7 more grocery wholesalers and 4 poultry wholesalers/processors. I presume by this time, the poultry was dressed, not live. I did not count the few customers who received eggs, nor did I count on-line slaughter houses, most of which were fairly small and likely would have received live animals for local consumption and probably did not ship meat anywhere else.

By contrast, the SP had 12 customers for PHP/meat traffic, 6 grocery wholesalers, and 3 poultry receivers, and had sidings totalling 80 spots. ATSF contributed 1 grocery wholesaler with just 1 spot. The UP had 1 grocery wholesaler with 2 spots. The situation isn't exactly clear in Salt Lake City, with the WP/D&RGW/UP sharing joint switching at a former arms plant converted to an industrial park that included several possible customers. I put all those under WP above. In addition, there were 10 grocery wholesalers on connecting shortlines or terminal switching operations with a total of 16 spots.

Now as to the customers themselves, I found 10 nationally known companies represented with their own distribution centers. Below, these list the railroad, products listed, and number of spots. I'm not sure what "AT" means. It pops up in several different cities in the railroad code space, but it not defined the book's abbreviations section. Likely it's short for "ATSF"; if so the book uses both abbreviations. Somebody mentioned military shipments, and I did not think to include these destinations, but  some bases would have received shipments, and the Oakland Army Base was a major supply depot for Pacific overseas installations.

Armour--Sacramento (SP-meat, 10); San Francisco (2 SP locations-PHP and meat at both, 2, 4)
Cudahy--Oakland (WP-PHP, 1); Salt Lake City (WP/D&RGW/UP-PHP, 9); San Francisco (State Belt RR-PHP, 2)
Dubuque--San Francisco (SP-PHP, 10)
Hahn--San Francisco (WP-meat, 1)
Hormel--San Francisco (WP-PHP and canned goods, 4)
Kingan--San Francisco (SP-PHP, 3)
Krey--San Francisco (not sure if this one is national; WP-PHP, 1)
Morrell--Oakland (WP-PHP, 3)
Rath--San Francisco (SP-PHP, 4)
Swift--Oakland (WP-PHP, 2); Reno (SP-PHP, 1); Sacramento (SP-meat, 2); San Francisco (SP-PHP, 4); Stockton (AT (ATSF?)-PHP, 10)

So obviously, there was west coast meat traffic. This sample mostly includes the WP, and SP's destinations in major central and northern California locations. It does not account for UP or ATSF routes to Southern California, the SP in Oregon, or any north-south through traffic, such as westbound cars received by the GN over the WP's NCE (the "Inside Gateway"). It certainly gives modelers of west coast railroads like the WP and SP justification for including meat reefers in their trains, including packer-owned/leased cars. You wouldn't have seen long trains of meat reefers (unlike PFE fruit blocks)RJ will be happy that the WP likely handled meat reefers from Cudahy, Hahn, Hormel, Krey, Morrell and Swift, though probably only one or two at a time.

One more item. Somebody mentioned livestock shipments on the UP into Southern California. This would have been the famous UP hog trains that served the Farmer John's pork plant in the South Los Angles area, probably the last regular large railroad livestock operation in the US. I don't know that Farmer John shipped finished products back out by rail; certainly not when I drove a delivery truck near the plant after college in the 1970s. Farmer John's building and parking lot walls were famous for the murals of cavorting porcine creatures in hog heaven. What you couldn't see from the streets was the the back side of the building's murals (facing the Los Angeles River) showing the pigs being unloaded and hearded to their doom. Sinister.

Hope you enjoy "chewing" on this.

Now back to scanning negatives.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆


Re: Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

BRIAN PAUL EHNI
 

Amen. Not happy about no FBs to go with my MP FPA/FA-2s. 

Thanks!
Brian Ehni 
(Sent from my iPhone)

On Apr 11, 2020, at 10:23 PM, spsalso via groups.io <Edwardsutorik@...> wrote:

I probably have $1000 worth of Rapido Alcos at my local shop, waiting to be picked up.  And I am not looking forward to the conversation about those.

I suspect "waiting it out" is something I will not want to do.  Again.

I will write to Rapido on Monday, and try to get an answer on this.


Ed

Edward Sutorik

On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 07:51 PM, bill woelfel wrote:
The Rapido newsletter dated April 3rd says the cars should be here sometime in May so I guess they they have left the factory already. There is a pic of an SP&S car and the ladders/grabs match. The car pictured  on the website is a DL&W car and  the grabs are out of line. I've got some on order also (ATSF) and just gonna wait it out.   Bill W

Re: Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

spsalso
 

I probably have $1000 worth of Rapido Alcos at my local shop, waiting to be picked up.  And I am not looking forward to the conversation about those.

I suspect "waiting it out" is something I will not want to do.  Again.

I will write to Rapido on Monday, and try to get an answer on this.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 07:51 PM, bill woelfel wrote:
The Rapido newsletter dated April 3rd says the cars should be here sometime in May so I guess they they have left the factory already. There is a pic of an SP&S car and the ladders/grabs match. The car pictured  on the website is a DL&W car and  the grabs are out of line. I've got some on order also (ATSF) and just gonna wait it out.   Bill W

Re: Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

bill woelfel
 

The Rapido newsletter dated April 3rd says the cars should be here sometime in May so I guess they they have left the factory already. There is a pic of an SP&S car and the ladders/grabs match. The car pictured  on the website is a DL&W car and  the grabs are out of line. I've got some on order also (ATSF) and just gonna wait it out.   Bill W

Re: Utah Coal Route steel gons in log service

Doug Paasch
 

Thanks Claus!  Awesome picture, and with the unloading crane with tongs, too.  I will be modeling log dumps on my layout and this photo will be a great reference on how log loads were secured in gondolas and type of crane used to unload them.

Doug Paasch


On Apr 11, 2020 1:59 PM, "Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)" <claus@...> wrote:

Painting brass

Malcolm H. Houck
 

Painting Brass: --

Soak in solvent to make sure all flux and oils are removed;

Soak in white vinegar (nothing more that weak acetic acid);

Rinse and dry;

I blast in a cabinet with #400 Alox;

Most primer is nothing more than another (unnecessary) coat of paint, and
of questionable value when attempting a (chemical) bond to non-ferrous material
and so-called etching primers are formulated for ferric materials employing
phosphoric acid as the etchant (creating iron phosphate for paint to stick to);

But I do coat with a clear industrial preparation.......branded as "Steelcote"
(and consisting largely of purified shellac - once covered with the color coat
it's as durable as anything else);

Paint and then bake......I have stuff painted over thirty-five years ago
with Steelcote - Scalecoat.......trudged all over and about for display, packed, unpacked,
repacked, unpacked.......etc., etc., etc.,

Rarely any touch up..........

Mal Houck

Painting brass

Andy Carlson
 

Tim O'Connor can tell you that George Bishop received his California supplied paint in 1 gallon buckets, 4 to a card board box, stacked together on wooden pallets.

I have way too much time.....
-Andy Carlson   Ojai CA

On Saturday, April 11, 2020, 6:22:28 PM PDT, Donald B. Valentine via groups.io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:
.....5 gallon cans from California.....

 
   For resin or styrene I will occasionally use Scalecoat paint but the usual paint I use there is now Tru-Color
which I know to be manufatured by the same Califoria supplier that supplied Accu-Paint to George Bishop
in five gallon cans. The late Gordon Cannon, founder of Cannon & Company, was also a great supporter
of Accu-Paint.
of u
_._,_._,_

Re: Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

Robert kirkham
 

Putting aside thoughts about accurate modelling, it looks to me as if straight (not drop) grabs in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th from bottom positions on the side would remedy the problem.   

 

Rob

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of spsalso via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2020 6:23 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

 

Randy,

I have not checked with Rapido.  I thought that perhaps something so obvious would have already been discussed here, and I had missed it.

Assuming that turns out to be true, based on yours and any other responses, I will indeed message Rapido on the matter.

I was very impressed when they dumped the cast plastic grabs on the NP box, and replaced them with wire.


Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: HO Freight cars for sale

Brian Carlson
 

UGH, doing my taxes tonight and didn’t realize Armand replied on list. I have deleted my reply from the group online, apologies for the oops. Better eat quickly because the food is jail is meh.

 

Brian Carlson

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Carlson via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2020 8:56 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] HO Freight cars for sale

 

Armand:

List attached

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Armand Premo
Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2020 8:33 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] HO Freight cars for sale

 

Brian,Please send me your list.Thank you.Armand Premo

On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 8:07 PM Brian Carlson via groups.io <prrk41361=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I’m clearing out some excess inventory and projects. I have some plastic and one F&C resin kits as well as plastic RTR cars up for sale. No sunshine cars in this batch.  If you’d like a list email me off-list at prrk41361 AT yahoo DOT com

 

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY

 

Re: Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

spsalso
 

Randy,

I have not checked with Rapido.  I thought that perhaps something so obvious would have already been discussed here, and I had missed it.

Assuming that turns out to be true, based on yours and any other responses, I will indeed message Rapido on the matter.

I was very impressed when they dumped the cast plastic grabs on the NP box, and replaced them with wire.


Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: Painting brass

Donald B. Valentine
 

    I agree with Pierre except on one thing. WHY PRIME? Primer hides detail. I've been painting brass for 
over fifty years, painted my first piece with fellow STMFC member Andy Miller's air brush at the MIT Model
RR Club shortly before I bought my own Paasche and with Andy looking over my shoulder. I used Floquil
Zinc Chromate Primer and Floquil paint. This was the only two models I have ever painted with primer or
Floquil paint, the first and the last!  I still have that model to remind me of why I never used Floquil again
and cheered when they went out of business. I switched to Scalecoat, now called Scalecoat I to differ it 
from Scalecost II that is meant for plastic, and have never regreted it  It does not need a primer nor is one 
recomended. But like Pierre I grit blast brass, clean it well and if I have a concern will also use white 
vinegar in the preparation process. I have never had  a problem with Scalecoat I not adhering to a model
if this process is followed. Scalecoat also lasts well when sealed well. I have at least 1 bottle of it with the 
original address on the label: 888 Velmont Ave., Birmingham, AL

   For resin or styrene I will occasionally use Scalecoat paint but the usual paint I use there is now Tru-Color
which I know to be manufatured by the same Califoria supplier that supplied Accu-Paint to George Bishop
in five gallon cans. The late Gordon Cannon, founder of Cannon & Company, was also a great supporter
of Accu-Paint.
of u

Cordially, Don Valentine

Re: Utah Coal Route steel gons in log service

Todd Sullivan
 

The data about the photo that Bob pointed out says 1946 or 1947. 

I wondered about the use of the UCR gon in log service.  It probably came from the Salt Lake City area to the smelter in Tacoma with copper ore or concentrate, and was released empty.  An enterprising yardmaster needed one more gondola for a log loading on a branch his trains serviced, so he grabbed it and sent it there.  It came back with these skinny sticks for this mill.  Notice that the nice brake wheel is slightly dished the wrong way. 

I'm just finishing one of these UCR gondolas from Cory Bonsall, and needed a photo of the B end to see how the cutting levers were positioned.  Voila!  The photo Bob provided is perfect.  I have another much older photo that shows the A end.   Model photos in a few days.

Todd Sullivan 

Re: Photos: Pennsylvania Salt Manufacturing Comp

Allen Cain
 

Claus,

And this is why so many people died entering confined spaces before OSHA implemented confined space entry rules.  May have been based on other agencies work.

I recall a case where about six men were killed when repairing a tank without air packs, wenches or other rescue equipment that would be SOP today.

First man in passed out so another went in to rescue him, then he passed out and another went in an so on until they were all dead at the bottom of the tank.

The oxygen in the bottom of the tank had been displaced by a an inert gas that was heavier than oxygen.  Sad story.

Allen Cain

Re: Painting brass

Nelson Moyer
 

I’m guessing you’re using Scalecoat or Scalecoat II? What about other paints like Tru Color? Do you still bake?

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Pierre Oliver
Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2020 6:54 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Painting brass

 

brass is fussy
Remove any factory clear coat, worst part of the job
Wash
Soak in white vinegar
wash
Prime
Bake
Colour coats, bake

Don't touch clean brass with fingers

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com

On 2020-04-11 7:22 p.m., Clark Propst wrote:

Would like to know what prep work folks do before laying on color?
Thanks, appreciate it!
CW Propst

Re: HO Freight cars for sale

Armand Premo
 

Brian,Please send me your list.Thank you.Armand Premo

On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 8:07 PM Brian Carlson via groups.io <prrk41361=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I’m clearing out some excess inventory and projects. I have some plastic and one F&C resin kits as well as plastic RTR cars up for sale. No sunshine cars in this batch.  If you’d like a list email me off-list at prrk41361 AT yahoo DOT com

 

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY

 

HO Freight cars for sale

Brian Carlson
 

I’m clearing out some excess inventory and projects. I have some plastic and one F&C resin kits as well as plastic RTR cars up for sale. No sunshine cars in this batch.  If you’d like a list email me off-list at prrk41361 AT yahoo DOT com

 

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY

 

Re: Utah Coal Route steel gons in log service

David Soderblom
 

A lovely image with so much going on:

- Such skinny logs for that long ago; not old-growth at all, and with tangled branches.  Not worth harvesting for many outfits at that time.
- A recently constructed mill: the paint and roof lines are so tidy.  What’s the long diagonal building extension going to in the background?  It looks like a factory building with its windows on lower storeys, so many uses for the sawdust or scrap?
- Note how the top logs in the foreground car extend over the car end, coupler, and to the next car.  Not kosher, unless the cars were intended to be a single shipment unit.
- The steam crane at the far end: for unloading the cars?  Most sawmills had better means than that, although those were specifically for log cars, as opposed to gons, where the logs have ti lifted over the sides.  Was this a highly unusual movement, justifying the photo?
- Steam everywhere.  Talk about the steam era.  1930s, to judge by the cars to the right.

And the obvious question:  Why UCR cars?  Logs from Utah?!


David Soderblom
Baltimore MD

Re: Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

Randy Hammill
 

I would guess Rapido would know. Have you checked with them? They have email and are on Facebook too. Bill Schneider might see this and reply too.

It is a hand-finished pre-production sample, and depending on how early in the process is probably from 3D-printed masters. But it is worth telling them sooner rather than later, because if it's not altered in the CAD prior to cutting tooling, then it's much more expensive to fix.

Randy

Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com

Re: Painting brass

J. Craig Whitcomb
 




On Apr 11, 2020, at 6:54 PM, Pierre Oliver <pierre.oliver@...> wrote:



brass is fussy
Remove any factory clear coat, worst part of the job
Wash
Soak in white vinegar
wash
Prime
Bake
Colour coats, bake

Don't touch clean brass with fingers

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 2020-04-11 7:22 p.m., Clark Propst wrote:
Would like to know what prep work folks do before laying on color?
Thanks, appreciate it!
CW Propst

Re: Painting brass

Pierre Oliver
 

brass is fussy
Remove any factory clear coat, worst part of the job
Wash
Soak in white vinegar
wash
Prime
Bake
Colour coats, bake

Don't touch clean brass with fingers

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 2020-04-11 7:22 p.m., Clark Propst wrote:

Would like to know what prep work folks do before laying on color?
Thanks, appreciate it!
CW Propst