Date   

Re: Warren Tank Cars In-train in 1954

gary laakso
 

It appears that Fenton,  is in fact, a freight car expert and that he was trying to disguise his skills, to no avail.  Should his nick name be “Warren”?

 

Gary Laakso

south of Mike Brock

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, May 1, 2017 10:26 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Warren Tank Cars In-train in 1954

 

 

Fenton;

Bruce is indeed correct. That is a c.'55-'60 ACF welded jacket and frame tank car. You can tell by the rounded stub end sill typical for ACF products of that time. It also has the rounded insulated tank ends they did typically for their more-"standardized" products.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2017 9:59 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [STMFC] Re: Warren Tank Cars In-train in 1954

Fenton,

I think that the second car is in fact insulated. If you look closely, you can see the tank bands appear to disappear just about the turnbuckles. That car is much newer.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
Blockedhttps://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

On May 1, 2017, at 7:59 AM, O Fenton Wells srrfan1401@... <mailto:srrfan1401@...> [STMFC] <STMFC@... > > wrote:

Gentlemen, I'm no freight car expert but the two Warren cars appear to be different. One appears to be insulated (Obviously a Sunshine kit;>) With the black or dark lower band while the other appears to be non insulated and no dark band at the bottom. I'm assuming Warren had both types.

Blockedhttps://farm9.staticflickr.com/8750/28004957510_666dfbfac9_k.jpg


Re: BLI NYC USRA Steel Box Car Corrections Needed

riverman_vt@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <timboconnor@...> wrote :


I have done a bit of work on a BLI NYC steel box car with 7/8 ends and seem to recall past remarks in this group on the "troubles" with these cars.  I know NYC did many rebuilds of these with new roofs and running boards, but apart from being unable to match a specific BLI road number with the "proper" roof or running board for a specific period, what are the most egregious details on the out-of-box model that need to be corrected?

Michael Gross

--------------------------

Michael,

As far as I have learned, the models are good for NYC - although someone mentioned
that they may represent a modernized car (?) Anyway, here are some previous references
from old emails -

   In the October 2006, RMC, Essential Freight Car article #34, NYC USRA design box cars,
   there is a table that lists all of the cars, and their similarities/differences.
   - Aaron Gjermundson

   That information is also in the roster in my
March, 2007 Railmodel Journal article
   on these cars. The only Spec. 486 box cars that had Dreadnaught ends were those built
   in 1927: 1,000 cars for the Big Four (later absorbed into the NYC roster), 50 cars
   for the Peoria & Eastern, and 1,000 cars for the NYC itself. So that's 2,050 cars
   out of almost 21,000, approximately one in ten. All the other cars had 7-8 corrugated
   ends. - Richard Hendrickson

I hope that helps a little

Tim O'Connor



    I've been pretty happy with the BLI NYC cars as modeled. If BLI were to modify them at
all I have supplied them with the changes needed, and photos, to get very nearly correct
DL&W and Reading prototypes out of these same models. Different ends, different doors 
but little else is required. Getting Bob Grubba, BLI's president, to move on almost any
change or improvement, however, is about as much fun as kicking a fire hydrant. In
addition, I write "very nearly correct" because I know some fellows on this list have little to 
do other than nit pick every new model to death. Perhaps they need to be reminded that 
we are dealing with injection molded styrene models for the masses rather than expensive,
imported brass models for the few who can still afford them.

Cordially, Don Valentine



Re: Warren Tank Cars In-train in 1954

O Fenton Wells
 

Thanks Bruce I love the tank cars but am not a student of same.

On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 9:58 AM, 'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Fenton,

I think that the second car is in fact insulated.  If you look closely, you can see the tank bands appear to disappear just about the turnbuckles.  That car is much newer.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith            
Auburn, AL
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

 
On May 1, 2017, at 7:59 AM, O Fenton Wells srrfan1401@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Gentlemen, I'm no freight car expert but the two Warren cars appear to be different.  One appears to be insulated (Obviously a Sunshine  kit;>) With the black or dark lower band while the other appears to be non insulated and no dark band at the bottom.  I'm assuming Warren had both types.




--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...


Shipping Steel by rail in 1955

no1detail@...
 

Good morning group, our group was discussing shipping steel by rail Sunday.  We've all see coiled steel in gondolas in the present day and as far back as the 60's.  But none of us can remember seeing coiled steel in gondolas around 1955.  I've been searching online but with no luck.  We are all midwest to western modelers if that makes any difference.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thank you
Steven E. Cerka



Re: using blue flags

Eric Hansmann
 

Here's another take on modeling blue flags and using them in operating
sessions. This was posted last June on the DesignBuildOp blog.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2016/06/24/blue-flags/



Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX


Re: BLI NYC USRA Steel Box Car Corrections Needed

Bruce Smith
 

Michael,

Richard Hendrickson worked with BLI on these cars, and for a post-WWII NYC car, I believe that they are very accurate.  I think most of our past discussion focused on the roofs and metal running boards for cars that might be backdated. I looked at some of the past threads and I can’t find any that found real faults.  You mention the roof.  Richard indicated that 90% of the cars had the 7/8 ends so that seems a good “fleet” choice ;)

Note that you can search the archives to find the discussions, although Yehaw doesn’t make it easy.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Apr 30, 2017, at 11:35 PM, ActorMichaelGross@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

I have done a bit of work on a BLI NYC steel box car with 7/8 ends and seem to recall past remarks in this group on the "troubles" with these cars.  I know NYC did many rebuilds of these with new roofs and running boards, but apart from being unable to match a specific BLI road number with the "proper" roof or running board for a specific period, what are the most egregious details on the out-of-box model that need to be corrected?

Thanks, in advance, for any help.

Michael Gross


Boxcar travels, was Looking for Box Car Advert.

Bruce Smith
 

Phil,

It is important to understand that for the period of this list, the railroads did not “control” the loading and routing of their general service boxcars.  This was controlled by the car service rules. Those rules were intended to load home road cars or foreign cars headed in the direction of home preferentially.  Railroads were also under some pressure to either load or get empty foreign road cars off their rails due to per diem charges. Note that I said “in the direction of home” above and that could be interpreted somewhat loosely.  Additionally, at the level of the local office, looking for a car to satisfy a customer, these rules were often regarded, much like the pirate book of rules, more as suggestions, than law ;)  A consequence of this was that general service boxcars traveled widely on US rails, giving the impression of being “free rollers”, although that wasn’t 100% true. Both the Monon and PRR had public relations campaigns centered on the travels of one of their boxcars.

The observations above are the distillation of many, many discussions on this list regarding boxcar distribution. We often refer to what I have described as the “Nelson-Gilbert” model, named after two individuals on this list. HOWEVER, it is important to realize that the N-G model does not apply to home road cars, special service cars, cars in dedicated service, individual trains, or any car type other than boxcars (or flat cars).  In addition, if you are using the model to predict traffic for a model railroad, it does not do as well on more lightly traveled branch lines as it does on main lines.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On May 1, 2017, at 12:43 AM, clark3332003@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


When did boxcars become common user?

Phil 'expat limey' Clark, Catarman, N. Samar, Philippines. 


Re: Warren Tank Cars In-train in 1954

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Fenton;

Bruce is indeed correct. That is a c.'55-'60 ACF welded jacket and frame tank car. You can tell by the rounded stub end sill typical for ACF products of that time. It also has the rounded insulated tank ends they did typically for their more-"standardized" products.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2017 9:59 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [STMFC] Re: Warren Tank Cars In-train in 1954



Fenton,

I think that the second car is in fact insulated. If you look closely, you can see the tank bands appear to disappear just about the turnbuckles. That car is much newer.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
Blockedhttps://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On May 1, 2017, at 7:59 AM, O Fenton Wells srrfan1401@gmail.com <mailto:srrfan1401@gmail.com> [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com> > wrote:


Gentlemen, I'm no freight car expert but the two Warren cars appear to be different. One appears to be insulated (Obviously a Sunshine kit;>) With the black or dark lower band while the other appears to be non insulated and no dark band at the bottom. I'm assuming Warren had both types.


Blockedhttps://farm9.staticflickr.com/8750/28004957510_666dfbfac9_k.jpg <Blockedhttps://farm9.staticflickr.com/8750/28004957510_666dfbfac9_k.jpg>


WP automobile box car upgrades

Eric Hansmann
 

Pete Hall upgraded a pair of HO scale plastic box car kits to reflect Western Pacific prototyeps. He shares his techniques in the latest post on the Resin Car Works blog. 

http://blog.resincarworks.com/upgrading-a-western-pacific-50-foot-automobile-box-car/



Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy


Re: Warren Tank Cars In-train in 1954

Bruce Smith
 

Fenton,

I think that the second car is in fact insulated.  If you look closely, you can see the tank bands appear to disappear just about the turnbuckles.  That car is much newer.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith            
Auburn, AL
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

 

On May 1, 2017, at 7:59 AM, O Fenton Wells srrfan1401@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Gentlemen, I'm no freight car expert but the two Warren cars appear to be different.  One appears to be insulated (Obviously a Sunshine  kit;>) With the black or dark lower band while the other appears to be non insulated and no dark band at the bottom.  I'm assuming Warren had both types.


Re: Warren Tank Cars In-train in 1954

O Fenton Wells
 

Gentlemen, I'm no freight car expert but the two Warren cars appear to be different.  One appears to be insulated (Obviously a Sunshine  kit;>) With the black or dark lower band while the other appears to be non insulated and no dark band at the bottom.  I'm assuming Warren had both types.

On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 8:42 PM, Garth Groff sarahsan@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Schuyler,

The CofG car you mentioned at http://www.railphoto-art.org/collections/lamb/group-four/#!jig[1]/https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8750/28004957510_666dfbfac9_k.jpg  is indeed a 50' PS1with a 9' single door. It is most likely from series 5500-5999, built 9/54. CofG also owned series 1500-1999 built 2/56. I don't have a photo of these, and I can't say for sure if they had the "football" paint scheme.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 4/30/17 7:17 PM, 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Thanks Garth,

A couple more things to note: The CofG 50’ “football” paint scheme box car, a PS-1 if I am not mistaken (and if I am, I’ll be so informed soon . . . J ) and a self-guarding frog in the turnout. The shipbuilding origin of the 1900 is also evidenced by the rounded corners on the doors, which is always the case on ships.

Schuyler,

An easy fix, and your request is very reasonable, now and in the future.

http://www.railphoto-art.org/collections/lamb/group-four/#!jig[1]/https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8750/28004957510_666dfbfac9_k.jpg

Note that there are some Warren tank cars in this photo too (mandatory freight car content).

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff





--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...


Re: Warren Tank Cars In-train in 1954

Bill Welch
 

Roof painted Aluminum on the CogG 50-ft PS-1 meaning a 1954 built car as 1956 group had black roofs.

Bill Welch


Re: BLI NYC USRA Steel Box Car Corrections Needed

Michael Gross
 

Thank you, Mark.  I much appreciate the advice!

Michael


Re: BLI NYC USRA Steel Box Car Corrections Needed

Michael Gross
 

Tim O’Conner and Don Valentine, I am extremely grateful for your comments regarding the BLI NYC Steel Box Car.  Others have replied with other helpful remarks directly to me.  To all of you, my thanks and best wishes!

Cheers!

Michael


Re: Looking for Box Car Advert.

Phil Clark
 


When did boxcars become common user?

Phil 'expat limey' Clark, Catarman, N. Samar, Philippines.


Re: BLI NYC USRA Steel Box Car Corrections Needed

Tim O'Connor
 


I have done a bit of work on a BLI NYC steel box car with 7/8 ends and seem to recall past remarks in this group on the "troubles" with these cars.  I know NYC did many rebuilds of these with new roofs and running boards, but apart from being unable to match a specific BLI road number with the "proper" roof or running board for a specific period, what are the most egregious details on the out-of-box model that need to be corrected?

Michael Gross

--------------------------

Michael,

As far as I have learned, the models are good for NYC - although someone mentioned
that they may represent a modernized car (?) Anyway, here are some previous references
from old emails -

   In the October 2006, RMC, Essential Freight Car article #34, NYC USRA design box cars,
   there is a table that lists all of the cars, and their similarities/differences.
   - Aaron Gjermundson

   That information is also in the roster in my
March, 2007 Railmodel Journal article
   on these cars. The only Spec. 486 box cars that had Dreadnaught ends were those built
   in 1927: 1,000 cars for the Big Four (later absorbed into the NYC roster), 50 cars
   for the Peoria & Eastern, and 1,000 cars for the NYC itself. So that's 2,050 cars
   out of almost 21,000, approximately one in ten. All the other cars had 7-8 corrugated
   ends. - Richard Hendrickson

I hope that helps a little

Tim O'Connor







BLI NYC USRA Steel Box Car Corrections Needed

Michael Gross
 

I have done a bit of work on a BLI NYC steel box car with 7/8 ends and seem to recall past remarks in this group on the "troubles" with these cars.  I know NYC did many rebuilds of these with new roofs and running boards, but apart from being unable to match a specific BLI road number with the "proper" roof or running board for a specific period, what are the most egregious details on the out-of-box model that need to be corrected?


Thanks, in advance, for any help.


Michael Gross

Pasadena, CA


Re: using blue flags

Jim Betz
 

Tony (and all),

I know of one layout that has modeled one of the permanent
(fold up) blue flags ... in the laying down position between the
rails. (I don't believe it can be raised but at least it is nice
"eye candy".

Seth Neumann uses blue flags to limit tracks available to his
Nummi plant switching jobs ... he places them and removes
them during the Op. Seth's Nummi job is run as a series of
jobs where each job works one of the areas of his enormous
Nummi plant ... there are Nummi 1 thru Nummi 4 before it
repeats. I believe that Seth leaves the status of the Nummi
job alone across sessions so if this session only finishes 2 of
the 4 the next session starts with Nummi 3. Some times the
same person does more than one Nummi job, sometimes not.

It occurs to me that you should paint both sides of the blue
flag blue rather than have one side grey ... that way your
operators can see it no matter where they are standing or
how square it is with the rails.
- Jim B.


Re: using blue flags

Tim O'Connor
 


Good point. I also object to any discussions of steel, oil, wood, or paint,
since all of those were first employed prior to 1900.



Bob Witt

The date of the blue flag rules origins is outside the date limits of this group.


Re: using blue flags

rwitt_2000
 

Best I can find ...

Found this in: Guidelines for the Specification of Blue Safety Flags in Railroad Operations

p. 12

“According to Dreyfus (1972), the use of blue as a safety color in the railroad industry has a long
history dating back to the 1800s.”

Reference: Dreyfuss, H. (1972). Symbol Source Book, New York: McGraw-Hill.

Link: https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=origins+of+blue+flag+rules+in+railroad


Bob Witt

The date of the blue flag rules origins is outside the date limits of this group.

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