Date   
Re: Meat reefers

William Hirt
 

The May 1951 Ottumwa and Creston Division Employee Timetable shows that CB&Q Train 74 (labeled Daily except Sunday Meat) was scheduled to leave Ottumwa at 5:45 pm and arrive Galesburg at 9:45 pm. There was no equivalent scheduled train westbound. I suspect extras brought back empty reefers to Ottumwa to balance power. Whether the eastbound train carried anything but meat I do not know.

The South Omaha Daily Meat (symboled LC) left Council Bluffs Yard at 4:30 pm, arrived Ottumwa 1:45 am and departed 2:00 am, and arrived Galesburg at 5:30 am.

The March 1952 Galesburg Division Employee Timetable showed Train 70 (Daily Meat) departing Galesburg at 7:00 am arriving Peoria at 9:15 am. It's counterpart appears to be Train 91 (Daily Merchandise) which left Peoria at 11:00 am and arrived Galesburg 1:30 pm.

The September 1951 Chicago and Aurora Division Employee Timetable shows Train LC (Daily Omaha Kansas City St. Joe Meat) departing Galesburg 8:00 am, arriving Congress Park 1:00 pm (to make set out for IHB) and then arrives Clyde 1:30 pm.

The Ottumwa Meat had it's own train on this division. Train 74A (Daily Ottumwa Meat) departed Galesburg at 11:30 pm, arriving Congress Park at 3:45 am (to make set out for IHB) and then arrives Clyde at 4:15 pm.

On the Chicago and Aurora Division, there were eight scheduled eastbounds and and six scheduled westbounds. So it is hard to match trains up.

Bill Hirt

On 4/8/2020 5:36 PM, Nelson Moyer wrote:

How many cars per train on average, and were trains dispatched both the East and West on different days? Were they solid blocks of Morrell cars? Where they strictly meat trains or did they include other freight or livestock? I knew about the Morrell plant in Ottumwa, and I’d like to model the Morrell train through Burlington on the way to Galesburg and points East.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of William Hirt
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2020 5:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

The Morrell meat traffic was important enough to the CB&Q that for a number of years the president of Morrell was on the CB&Q Board of Directors. The Q originated a train at Ottumwa IA each weekday afternoon just for the Morrell traffic. As Doug knows, Morrell slaughtered cattle, hogs and sheep in Ottumwa.

Bill Hirt

On 4/8/2020 10:30 AM, Douglas Harding wrote:

The Nickle Plate handled a lot of meat because it was a fast route. Meat was time sensitive and the meat packers wanted their products delivered as quickly as possible. Out of Omaha, meat packers could choose between six different railroads to get to Omaha. All roads were given meat traffic, with each road having a specific day when they go the majority of traffic. As rates were regulated, this was how the packers kept the railroads on their toes with demands for speed. The Illinois Central was the preferred route as the IC moved the meat faster than others. The CBQ had the option of going to Peoria for eastern connections instead of Chicago. East out of Chicago, the NKP was the preferred routing for meat going to NYC or New England.

 

I am not as well versed in meat traffic east of Chicago. Attached is a spreadsheet prepared by John Greedy and Jim Singer, which shows the meat traffic east of Chicago on various roads in the 50s.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

._,_

Re: Meat reefers

Clark Propst
 

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 02:56 PM, Bill Keene wrote:
Unfortunately, I model a little known Santa Fe branch line that once operated in east central Kansas. Meat reefers on this 50 miles of track would have been a rare event. Most likely if one were to arrive on the line it most surely was a very lost or somehow mis-directed car. 
 
Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA

Bill here are some LCL meat reefers. These car just a small sampling from the spread sheet
FAIRFAX MN M&StL SEAL BOOK ENTRIES FROM SAM SHERMAN          
DATE TRAIN NO. INITIALS  NUMBER CONTENTS CAR TYPE NO. SERIES INBOUND OUTBOUND BUSINESS
5/29/1947 72 URTX 27288 MEAT RS 27000-27999 INBOUND OUTBOUND LCL
8/14/1947 72 GARX  67337 MEAT RS 67100-67499 INBOUND OUTBOUND LCL
9/11/1947 72 FGEX 33651 MEAT RS 32100-35898 INBOUND OUTBOUND LCL

 

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

O Fenton Wells
 

Thanks for sharing the photos, I love the SR Auto/Furniture boxcar photo ( # 311006).  Southern had 5000 of these and this is the car Sunshine Models made.  Love that photo
Thanks
Fenton

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 9:26 AM Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Eric;

 

I have been exploring the Whitehall (or White Hall) Branch, since I was a boy when my Mom was playing Symphony gigs and took me along with her to the South Side.  I still host tours every so often when I go to Pgh.

 

There was an unbelievable amount of freight car variety on the branch, and industry variety being served by same.  Due to the tight radii of the trackage, it was generally  served by a small group of SW-1’s, but they managed to get 65’ gons down there to serve a steel fabricator.  Box cars, reefers, hoppers, flats, and lotsa gons.

 

In your timeframe, there was a great beer maker on 21st Street: Moerlein’s, who later moved on to Ohio.  They had this fabulous building, later a plumbing supply company.  Their spur went right into the building.

 

The only freight car type I never saw down there were tank cars, but I’ll bet I just missed them.  There were several iron and steel works down there that would’ve received them.

 

I know several people that have attempted to model this area, but no one has pulled it off.  Here are a small sample of photos…

 

Check out the variety of cars in the last photo of 30th Street Yard next to the Jones & Laughlin open hearth complex in 1953.  At 21st Street Yard, note the URR gon lurking, and the Southern Automobile/Furniture car.  I think it is carrying furniture to the Gimbel’s warehouse in back.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 3:31 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

Those are great shots, Eldon.

 

Here’s a link to a 1923 GM Hopkins plat map that shows the buildings Eldon mentions. There seems to be a Morris & Co. operation across 21st Street from the Armour building.

Blockedhttps://arcg.is/1CfrCq0

 

I was unaware the PRR Whitehall branch went down 21st Street. That has lots of layout potential, especially for a pre-1930s era.

 

BTW, if you zoom out to view more of that map, I cannot guarantee you will accomplish anything else today. Stay hydrated while you explore an earlier Pittsburgh.

 

Or, maybe “Have a Duke!” since the brewery was on the Whitehall branch.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:06 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

Eric and all;

 

The attached are from my historical research files I have worked a long time on, on the Mon Valley in and upstream of Pittsburgh.  These are from the South Side across the Mon from downtown Pittsburgh.  The first 3 are the track side of the combined retail store and wholesale Armour Meats operation.  You can still see:  the Supervisor’s cupola, office and residence, the unloading dock (although the unloading rail is missing), and retail store side.  This was served by a facing switch in the middle of 21st Street on which I was standing.

 

The last shot is the similar Swift Meats operation, right across East Carson Street.  By this time, the small triangular unloading dock had been demolished, although you can see the doorway.  This was served by a facing switch in the middle of 21st Street. 

 

Cars for both originated out of 30th Street Yard in the upper South Side, dropped off by transfers from other local Pgh yards.  As Eric said, they were priority switching jobs.

 

Old timers told me about the switching of both plants, which tied up traffic to the annoyance of locals.  Many recalled the colorful reefers hosted at each, and how often it occurred.

 

There were similar but smaller ops upstream at Brownsville, also, and at Fairmont,  IIRC on the Monongahela Railway.

 

When shown photos of Armour and Swift reefers, folks’ faces would light up, and they’d go, “Yeah, just like that!”.

 

I don’t think many realize how prevalent this was in many locales.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:15 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

Attached is part of a Sanborn Fire Insurance map of Fairmont, W. Va. There’s an Armour branch house in the building complex on the left side. This was located on the 1.25 mile Fairmont Belt Line branch of the B&O. The B&O main can be seen in the lower right corner and the connection was just to the right off the map. Fairmont had a population around 20,000 people when this 1927 Sanborn map was created.

 

Based upon tales of former B&O yard workers, service for the Armour customer was a high priority. When a meat reefer arrived in Fairmont for this branch house, it was immediately switched to the spur.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 10:27 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

Gang;

 

It was amazing to me when doing research on my area how many community meat wholesale operations there were, literally all over the place.  In my area, mostly Armour and Swift, but also others.  They were where the reefers arrived with sides of beef, etc., and where they processed the large pieces into smaller cuts for trucking to local butchers.  Look into this, and you may be astonished at what you find.  I was!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Townsend via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 9:30 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

Not necessarily lost or misdirected. Swift, for example, had hundreds of routes that it sent individual meat reefers up, as often as daily. They would go to a central distribution warehouse for larger towns, and might make stops at individual depots or team tracks for smaller towns, where grocers or butchers would pick up their orders. One car might serve an entire branch that way. 

 

So, see? You now have dispensation to run meat reefers regularly on your Kansas branch line, prototypically.

Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Keene via groups.io <
bill41@...>
To:
main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Apr 7, 2020 2:56 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

The gift shop of the Kansas City Railroad Museum was housed in a Wilson meat reefer. It was my weekend “home” for several years. This part of my life has given me a fondness for meat reefers. 

 

Unfortunately, I model a little known Santa Fe branch line that once operated in east central Kansas. Meat reefers on this 50 miles of track would have been a rare event. Most likely if one were to arrive on the line it most surely was a very lost or somehow mis-directed car. 

 

Cheers,

Bill Keene

Irvine, CA

 

 

 

On Apr 7, 2020, at 2:40 PM, Brian Carlson via groups.io <prrk41361@...> wrote:

 

That’s the beauty of modeling part of the Erie Main through Pennsylvania. I can get most of them <grin>. 

Brian J. Carlson 

 

On Apr 7, 2020, at 5:13 PM, Ted Schnepf <railsunl@...> wrote:



Hello,

Always nice to see fine reefer models.

In the early 1950's before the meat packers expanded, by consolidating facilities. the only place to see some of these reefers together on one train was east of Chicago. NKP did have the line east out of Chicago. Dubuqe, Oscar Meyer, and Hormel. were one plant companies. Hygrade in the early 1950's had only one or two plants. Swift, Armour, and Wilson had multiple locations.

My point is that not all meat reefers would be regularly seen, on the same train, except east of Chicago. When picking reefers to model, be aware of the plant locations and likely routing over your railroad.

Ted Schnepf

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020, 06:54:16 AM CDT, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

 

 

Frank Hodina shares photos and details on a few meat reefers in the latest Resin Car Works blog post. 

 

BlockedBlockedBlockedhttp://blog.resincarworks.com/meat-reefers/

 

Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy

Be safe. Stay healthy. Build models!

 



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Eric;

 

I have been exploring the Whitehall (or White Hall) Branch, since I was a boy when my Mom was playing Symphony gigs and took me along with her to the South Side.  I still host tours every so often when I go to Pgh.

 

There was an unbelievable amount of freight car variety on the branch, and industry variety being served by same.  Due to the tight radii of the trackage, it was generally  served by a small group of SW-1’s, but they managed to get 65’ gons down there to serve a steel fabricator.  Box cars, reefers, hoppers, flats, and lotsa gons.

 

In your timeframe, there was a great beer maker on 21st Street: Moerlein’s, who later moved on to Ohio.  They had this fabulous building, later a plumbing supply company.  Their spur went right into the building.

 

The only freight car type I never saw down there were tank cars, but I’ll bet I just missed them.  There were several iron and steel works down there that would’ve received them.

 

I know several people that have attempted to model this area, but no one has pulled it off.  Here are a small sample of photos…

 

Check out the variety of cars in the last photo of 30th Street Yard next to the Jones & Laughlin open hearth complex in 1953.  At 21st Street Yard, note the URR gon lurking, and the Southern Automobile/Furniture car.  I think it is carrying furniture to the Gimbel’s warehouse in back.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 3:31 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

Those are great shots, Eldon.

 

Here’s a link to a 1923 GM Hopkins plat map that shows the buildings Eldon mentions. There seems to be a Morris & Co. operation across 21st Street from the Armour building.

Blockedhttps://arcg.is/1CfrCq0

 

I was unaware the PRR Whitehall branch went down 21st Street. That has lots of layout potential, especially for a pre-1930s era.

 

BTW, if you zoom out to view more of that map, I cannot guarantee you will accomplish anything else today. Stay hydrated while you explore an earlier Pittsburgh.

 

Or, maybe “Have a Duke!” since the brewery was on the Whitehall branch.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:06 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

Eric and all;

 

The attached are from my historical research files I have worked a long time on, on the Mon Valley in and upstream of Pittsburgh.  These are from the South Side across the Mon from downtown Pittsburgh.  The first 3 are the track side of the combined retail store and wholesale Armour Meats operation.  You can still see:  the Supervisor’s cupola, office and residence, the unloading dock (although the unloading rail is missing), and retail store side.  This was served by a facing switch in the middle of 21st Street on which I was standing.

 

The last shot is the similar Swift Meats operation, right across East Carson Street.  By this time, the small triangular unloading dock had been demolished, although you can see the doorway.  This was served by a facing switch in the middle of 21st Street. 

 

Cars for both originated out of 30th Street Yard in the upper South Side, dropped off by transfers from other local Pgh yards.  As Eric said, they were priority switching jobs.

 

Old timers told me about the switching of both plants, which tied up traffic to the annoyance of locals.  Many recalled the colorful reefers hosted at each, and how often it occurred.

 

There were similar but smaller ops upstream at Brownsville, also, and at Fairmont,  IIRC on the Monongahela Railway.

 

When shown photos of Armour and Swift reefers, folks’ faces would light up, and they’d go, “Yeah, just like that!”.

 

I don’t think many realize how prevalent this was in many locales.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:15 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

Attached is part of a Sanborn Fire Insurance map of Fairmont, W. Va. There’s an Armour branch house in the building complex on the left side. This was located on the 1.25 mile Fairmont Belt Line branch of the B&O. The B&O main can be seen in the lower right corner and the connection was just to the right off the map. Fairmont had a population around 20,000 people when this 1927 Sanborn map was created.

 

Based upon tales of former B&O yard workers, service for the Armour customer was a high priority. When a meat reefer arrived in Fairmont for this branch house, it was immediately switched to the spur.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 10:27 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

Gang;

 

It was amazing to me when doing research on my area how many community meat wholesale operations there were, literally all over the place.  In my area, mostly Armour and Swift, but also others.  They were where the reefers arrived with sides of beef, etc., and where they processed the large pieces into smaller cuts for trucking to local butchers.  Look into this, and you may be astonished at what you find.  I was!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Townsend via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 9:30 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

Not necessarily lost or misdirected. Swift, for example, had hundreds of routes that it sent individual meat reefers up, as often as daily. They would go to a central distribution warehouse for larger towns, and might make stops at individual depots or team tracks for smaller towns, where grocers or butchers would pick up their orders. One car might serve an entire branch that way. 

 

So, see? You now have dispensation to run meat reefers regularly on your Kansas branch line, prototypically.

Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Keene via groups.io <
bill41@...>
To:
main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Apr 7, 2020 2:56 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

The gift shop of the Kansas City Railroad Museum was housed in a Wilson meat reefer. It was my weekend “home” for several years. This part of my life has given me a fondness for meat reefers. 

 

Unfortunately, I model a little known Santa Fe branch line that once operated in east central Kansas. Meat reefers on this 50 miles of track would have been a rare event. Most likely if one were to arrive on the line it most surely was a very lost or somehow mis-directed car. 

 

Cheers,

Bill Keene

Irvine, CA

 

 

 

On Apr 7, 2020, at 2:40 PM, Brian Carlson via groups.io <prrk41361@...> wrote:

 

That’s the beauty of modeling part of the Erie Main through Pennsylvania. I can get most of them <grin>. 

Brian J. Carlson 

 

On Apr 7, 2020, at 5:13 PM, Ted Schnepf <railsunl@...> wrote:



Hello,

Always nice to see fine reefer models.

In the early 1950's before the meat packers expanded, by consolidating facilities. the only place to see some of these reefers together on one train was east of Chicago. NKP did have the line east out of Chicago. Dubuqe, Oscar Meyer, and Hormel. were one plant companies. Hygrade in the early 1950's had only one or two plants. Swift, Armour, and Wilson had multiple locations.

My point is that not all meat reefers would be regularly seen, on the same train, except east of Chicago. When picking reefers to model, be aware of the plant locations and likely routing over your railroad.

Ted Schnepf

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020, 06:54:16 AM CDT, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

 

 

Frank Hodina shares photos and details on a few meat reefers in the latest Resin Car Works blog post. 

 

 

Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy

Be safe. Stay healthy. Build models!

 

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

Douglas Harding
 

Dave yes I was thinking of military stores when I mentioned institutions. And yes they would receive reefers from every major packer. Like a cold storage or grocery warehouse you could see an Armour next to a Swift next to Cudahy, etc.

 

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave Nelson
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 8:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

Brach houses were pretty much the standard presence of name brand meats here on the west coast and AFAIK Doug’s description below is spot on.

 

There is one more business to note regarding meat traffic and that’s Cold Storage houses.  They’d store anything needing refrigeration, including meats.  One large facility that’s probably overlooked is the Naval Supply Center in Oakland.   They shipped all the non-explosive needs into the Pacific theater for decades  and they had a large cold storage house as well. 

 

It’s plausible that large military bases regularly received meat reefers.  I  do not know who the military bought meat from but I would not be surprised if several packers sold to them – cured pork from one, sides of beef from others, pork or lamb sides from other companies.

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2020 9:29 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

Eldon the major meat packers: Swift, Armour, Wilson, Cudahy all had branch houses scattered across the country. The Branch Houses would receive carcasses, ie swinging meat, from the slaughter houses, then “process” the carcass into various meat cuts. These cuts then went to grocery concerns, meat markets, restaurants, institutions ie hospitals, prisons, etc. where they might be further cut down into steaks, chops, roasts, ground meat, etc. Some slaughter operations were full processing plants, where cold cuts, sausage, etc was made. But branch houses could also have this responsibility.

 

Note a branch house would only receive reefers from their respective slaughter house. However a grocery warehouse or cold storage facility would have reefers from all the meat packers.

,_

Re: Meat reefers

Doug Paasch
 

Add to Doug Harding's  list of cities, I was just looking at GN customers in Seattle and the list included those packers as well.

Doug Paasch


On Apr 8, 2020 10:16 AM, "Douglas Harding" <iowacentralrr@...> wrote:

Meat packing plants in the West were located at Phoenix, Los Angeles (Vernon), South San Francisco, Sacramento,  Portland, Tacoma. Swift, Armour, Cudahy, Wilson all had plants out West. Tovrea, Swanston, Carstens, Nuckolls were regional packers who served the West. WWII created a huge demand for meat on the west coast, to feed the military and all the factory workers who migrated out there.

 

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@....io] On Behalf Of radiodial868
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 10:46 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

So it is safe to say that meat reefers were not a west coast thing, say 1930's/1940's?  I have not seen any in period pictures, but doesn't mean they didn't exist.  I have a couple of Sylvan meat reefer kits I keep wondering if I should build to run on Western Pacific/Southern Pacific consists.
--
-------------------
RJ Dial

Mendocino, CA

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

Dave Nelson
 

Brach houses were pretty much the standard presence of name brand meats here on the west coast and AFAIK Doug’s description below is spot on.

 

There is one more business to note regarding meat traffic and that’s Cold Storage houses.  They’d store anything needing refrigeration, including meats.  One large facility that’s probably overlooked is the Naval Supply Center in Oakland.   They shipped all the non-explosive needs into the Pacific theater for decades  and they had a large cold storage house as well. 

 

It’s plausible that large military bases regularly received meat reefers.  I  do not know who the military bought meat from but I would not be surprised if several packers sold to them – cured pork from one, sides of beef from others, pork or lamb sides from other companies.

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2020 9:29 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

Eldon the major meat packers: Swift, Armour, Wilson, Cudahy all had branch houses scattered across the country. The Branch Houses would receive carcasses, ie swinging meat, from the slaughter houses, then “process” the carcass into various meat cuts. These cuts then went to grocery concerns, meat markets, restaurants, institutions ie hospitals, prisons, etc. where they might be further cut down into steaks, chops, roasts, ground meat, etc. Some slaughter operations were full processing plants, where cold cuts, sausage, etc was made. But branch houses could also have this responsibility.

 

Note a branch house would only receive reefers from their respective slaughter house. However a grocery warehouse or cold storage facility would have reefers from all the meat packers.

,_

Re: DL&W Boxcar 49488 Photo

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I don’t think the side of the car is a bad retouching job, as the lettering, when blown up a lot, conforms to the ribs.  But what I’d like to know is what is going on up topside, on the roof?  Are those tubes, vents, or something?  Or is THAT bad retouching???

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2020 7:30 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] DL&W Boxcar 49488 Photo

 

Friends,

 

While searching for Standard Container Company, I ran across this image of a DL&W boxcar, which appears to show very odd side panels. The sides look similar to some Pullman late-1930s lightweight boxcars, or is this just bad retouching?

 

In my ORER, D&LW 49000-49502 appear to be "normal" 40' IL, 10' IH boxcars of 3712 cubic feet, and a 100,000 capacity. Any thoughts? From the photo, this car was built 4-40.

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff  🦆

Re: Meat reefers

Douglas Harding
 

Nelson, I can’t say for sure about CBQ meat trains, but most roads kept hot trains like meat trains to 50 cars or less. This allowed them to move at high speed without double heading. And yes cars coming out of a meat packing plant would be in solid blocks going to the same destination. The block was not broken until it arrived at Chicago or similar location where cars were passed onto connecting roads. One these eastern connecting roads you would see reefers from different packers mixed into blocks based upon destination.

 

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 5:36 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

How many cars per train on average, and were trains dispatched both the East and West on different days? Were they solid blocks of Morrell cars? Where they strictly meat trains or did they include other freight or livestock? I knew about the Morrell plant in Ottumwa, and I’d like to model the Morrell train through Burlington on the way to Galesburg and points East.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of William Hirt
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2020 5:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

The Morrell meat traffic was important enough to the CB&Q that for a number of years the president of Morrell was on the CB&Q Board of Directors. The Q originated a train at Ottumwa IA each weekday afternoon just for the Morrell traffic. As Doug knows, Morrell slaughtered cattle, hogs and sheep in Ottumwa.

Bill Hirt

On 4/8/2020 10:30 AM, Douglas Harding wrote:

The Nickle Plate handled a lot of meat because it was a fast route. Meat was time sensitive and the meat packers wanted their products delivered as quickly as possible. Out of Omaha, meat packers could choose between six different railroads to get to Omaha. All roads were given meat traffic, with each road having a specific day when they go the majority of traffic. As rates were regulated, this was how the packers kept the railroads on their toes with demands for speed. The Illinois Central was the preferred route as the IC moved the meat faster than others. The CBQ had the option of going to Peoria for eastern connections instead of Chicago. East out of Chicago, the NKP was the preferred routing for meat going to NYC or New England.

 

I am not as well versed in meat traffic east of Chicago. Attached is a spreadsheet prepared by John Greedy and Jim Singer, which shows the meat traffic east of Chicago on various roads in the 50s.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

._,_

Re: Meat reefers

Douglas Harding
 

I would concur with a Howard, an LCL meat car, era dependent. Once roads were established, esp after WWII, trucks served the local grocery stores. Also remember this was farm and ranch country, and until modern times most farmers/ranchers raised their own meat, some still do. They either butchered themselves or they had a local “locker” in town butcher for them. These local operations also served the town’s needs and often even provided for the local grocery story by buying a hog or cow from the a local farmer. Local lockers are still found in many communities in Iowa. They cater to the area farmers, but also do a lot of business during deer season with hunters.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of earlyrail
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 6:57 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

4 locations of 1000 or more. Local butchers/meat shows?

Could very well be a branch with a meat "route car" that ran once a week

Works like a LCL car, kept in the train an offloaded only to specified buyers.

This could have been at the end of a route that  started on the main line.

 

I have CGW documents that show some route cars took 3 days to complete their route.

 

Howard arner

 

Re: WFEX 1201-1202 freight reefers

vapeurchapelon
 

Hello Tim,
 
FWIW, these models didn't come from W&R but Shoreham Shops instead.
 
Many greetings
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 

On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 06:57 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Were they anything like the W&R models?

https://brasstrains.sirv.com/products/079574/0795740102.jpg


On 4/6/2020 9:30 PM, Donald B. Valentine via groups.io wrote:
    Out of curiosity alone I looked for these cars in my July 1947 ORER and, like you,  found them gone by that time. 
So I looked at the WFE and BREX rosters to see if they had anything similar, which they didn't. I had also look over 
my Athearn FOBX #4156 which is listed but has nowhere near the height of your two odd balls. With no similar cars
listed for the related companies I went back and looked at the January 1938 ORER and found both listed there and 
just as you described them. Sorry I can't offer any ore on these tow strange cars.
 
    Speaking of the Athearn FOBX #4156 does anyone know where Fruit Growers Express used these cars and who
they served? Fruit Growers was a large operator in New England, especially on the New Haven, so I bought it some
time ago to add variety to a reefer block.
 
Cordially, Don Valentine

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: DL&W Boxcar 49488 Photo

Schleigh Mike
 

A Little more on this---

Kaminski's Magor book, page 90, has a photo of car 49262 and that car's sheathing is the conventional five panels on each side of the door.

And I guess I mis-read Garth's photo of car 49488 (It is not 49498.).

Regards----Mike Schleigh

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020, 07:47:37 PM EDT, Schleigh Mike <mike_schleigh@...> wrote:


Hello Garth & Group!

According to the ELRRHS re-printed 1952 DL&W freight car listing that I have mentioned in earlier times in these pages, DL&W 49498 was a member of series 49000-49499 built by Magor in Feb. to April of 1940.  There is no mention on the diagram of any side sheathing detail.  Sorry, no other help.

Regards from Grove City, Penna.    Mike Schleigh

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020, 07:30:57 PM EDT, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:


Friends,

While searching for Standard Container Company, I ran across this image of a DL&W boxcar, which appears to show very odd side panels. The sides look similar to some Pullman late-1930s lightweight boxcars, or is this just bad retouching?

In my ORER, D&LW 49000-49502 appear to be "normal" 40' IL, 10' IH boxcars of 3712 cubic feet, and a 100,000 capacity. Any thoughts? From the photo, this car was built 4-40.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

Re: Meat reefers

earlyrail
 

4 locations of 1000 or more. Local butchers/meat shows?
Could very well be a branch with a meat "route car" that ran once a week
Works like a LCL car, kept in the train an offloaded only to specified buyers.
This could have been at the end of a route that  started on the main line.

I have CGW documents that show some route cars took 3 days to complete their route.

Howard arner

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

CJ Riley
 

I am very intrigued by the “hot rod” driving along the tracks at lower left!



Re: DL&W Boxcar 49488 Photo

Schleigh Mike
 

Hello Garth & Group!

According to the ELRRHS re-printed 1952 DL&W freight car listing that I have mentioned in earlier times in these pages, DL&W 49498 was a member of series 49000-49499 built by Magor in Feb. to April of 1940.  There is no mention on the diagram of any side sheathing detail.  Sorry, no other help.

Regards from Grove City, Penna.    Mike Schleigh

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020, 07:30:57 PM EDT, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:


Friends,

While searching for Standard Container Company, I ran across this image of a DL&W boxcar, which appears to show very odd side panels. The sides look similar to some Pullman late-1930s lightweight boxcars, or is this just bad retouching?

In my ORER, D&LW 49000-49502 appear to be "normal" 40' IL, 10' IH boxcars of 3712 cubic feet, and a 100,000 capacity. Any thoughts? From the photo, this car was built 4-40.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

DL&W Boxcar 49488 Photo

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

While searching for Standard Container Company, I ran across this image of a DL&W boxcar, which appears to show very odd side panels. The sides look similar to some Pullman late-1930s lightweight boxcars, or is this just bad retouching?

In my ORER, D&LW 49000-49502 appear to be "normal" 40' IL, 10' IH boxcars of 3712 cubic feet, and a 100,000 capacity. Any thoughts? From the photo, this car was built 4-40.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

vapeurchapelon
 

>>Add three small cinders from a locomotive and it is ready to serve on an open observation platform.<<
 
So true, Chuck! And in case of some not-so-fine whisky don't forget a small drop of steam engine bearing oil to help getting that stuff down the throat. ;-)
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 08. April 2020 um 20:59 Uhr
Von: "Charles Peck" <lnnrr152@...>
An: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers
The proportion on whisky to ice is important, too.  Really fine whisky is delivered in barrels carried in a D/S trussrod boxcar. Carefully decanted and a bit of clear ice rubbed on the outside of the glass.  Add three small cinders from a locomotive and it is ready to serve on an open observation platform.
Chuck Peck

 
On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 2:30 PM O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:
So right Tony, bourbon is 100 times better over clear ice
Fenton
 
On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 2:23 PM Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:
Claus Schlund wrote:
 
I notice that the Armour Packing Co area has a portion of the building labeled as ‘Ice Machs’ – this makes me wonder if Armour owned the ice making equipment, and then used some portion of the ice for their own needs, and if Armour then possibly sold excess ice on a wholesale basis to Marion Ice, who perhaps in turn resold that ice on a retail basis.
     Remember that "commercial ice" was frozen as quickly as possible and accordingly contained really a lot of trapped air bubbles, making it at best translucent and often opaque and white. The ice consumers prefer to buy is frozen slowly enough for it to be clear or nearly so. Of course some consumer ice, intended for (literal) ice boxes or making ice cream, etc. can be the cloudy ice, but people would prefer not to put that into a drinking glass.
 
Tony Thompson
 

 

 

 
 
--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

 

 

Re: Standard Container Boxcar [was: Pres-To-Logs Boxcar]

vapeurchapelon
 

Hello Garth,
 
nice photo, and aside of the paint job (but I don't know that for sure) the car still looks fully steam-era (to me) with its full height ladders and running board. And it is a (rare?) example where the "glad hand" doesn't sit in its usual 30° angle! :-)
 
Many greetings
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 09. April 2020 um 01:14 Uhr
Von: "Garth Groff and Sally Sanford" <mallardlodge1000@...>
An: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Standard Container Boxcar [was: Pres-To-Logs Boxcar]
Alex and Claus,
 
Is it possible the Pres-to-Log car was strictly for in-plant use? Compare with the attached.
 
I shot Standard Container boxcar 1001 I shot in January 1982, I think in Homerville, Georgia. Since it lacks end numbers and a reporting mark, I must conclude this car was only for in-plant use. I haven't been able to locate any additional information about Standard Container Company, except that it is now a mid-level superfund site.
 
This car is, of course, way beyond our period mandate in this incarnation, but it certainly dates to around 1948.
 
Yours Aye,
 
 
Garth Groff  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

Re: Standard Container Boxcar [was: Pres-To-Logs Boxcar]

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Alex and Claus,

Is it possible the Pres-to-Log car was strictly for in-plant use? Compare with the attached.

I shot Standard Container boxcar 1001 I shot in January 1982, I think in Homerville, Georgia. Since it lacks end numbers and a reporting mark, I must conclude this car was only for in-plant use. I haven't been able to locate any additional information about Standard Container Company, except that it is now a mid-level superfund site.

This car is, of course, way beyond our period mandate in this incarnation, but it certainly dates to around 1948.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

Re: Fruit Growers & Western Fruit Overhead Bunker Reefers—was WFEX 1201-1202 freight reefers

Charlie Vlk
 

All
I meant to indicate that the Walthers model mentioned was O Scale and dates from the bronze and anvil era of the scale back in the immediate postwar period when 1/4” was outside third rail and powered with K&D motors about the same size as came on mixmasters.
Charlie Vlk


On Apr 8, 2020, at 4:47 PM, Charlie Vlk <cvlk@...> wrote:



Interesting subject.   When I saw the photos they reminded me of the CB&Q 300-325 Express Refrigerators and the 326-329 with Cream Compartment.

Interestingly, Walthers made a model of the 326-329 that had eight roof hatches, at least on the built-up one that was on eBay.

Charlie Vlk