Date   
Re: WFEX 1201-1202 freight reefers

vapeurchapelon
 

Hello Tim,
 
FWIW, these models didn't come from W&R but Shoreham Shops instead.
 
Many greetings
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 

On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 06:57 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Were they anything like the W&R models?

https://brasstrains.sirv.com/products/079574/0795740102.jpg


On 4/6/2020 9:30 PM, Donald B. Valentine via groups.io wrote:
    Out of curiosity alone I looked for these cars in my July 1947 ORER and, like you,  found them gone by that time. 
So I looked at the WFE and BREX rosters to see if they had anything similar, which they didn't. I had also look over 
my Athearn FOBX #4156 which is listed but has nowhere near the height of your two odd balls. With no similar cars
listed for the related companies I went back and looked at the January 1938 ORER and found both listed there and 
just as you described them. Sorry I can't offer any ore on these tow strange cars.
 
    Speaking of the Athearn FOBX #4156 does anyone know where Fruit Growers Express used these cars and who
they served? Fruit Growers was a large operator in New England, especially on the New Haven, so I bought it some
time ago to add variety to a reefer block.
 
Cordially, Don Valentine

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: DL&W Boxcar 49488 Photo

Schleigh Mike
 

A Little more on this---

Kaminski's Magor book, page 90, has a photo of car 49262 and that car's sheathing is the conventional five panels on each side of the door.

And I guess I mis-read Garth's photo of car 49488 (It is not 49498.).

Regards----Mike Schleigh

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020, 07:47:37 PM EDT, Schleigh Mike <mike_schleigh@...> wrote:


Hello Garth & Group!

According to the ELRRHS re-printed 1952 DL&W freight car listing that I have mentioned in earlier times in these pages, DL&W 49498 was a member of series 49000-49499 built by Magor in Feb. to April of 1940.  There is no mention on the diagram of any side sheathing detail.  Sorry, no other help.

Regards from Grove City, Penna.    Mike Schleigh

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020, 07:30:57 PM EDT, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:


Friends,

While searching for Standard Container Company, I ran across this image of a DL&W boxcar, which appears to show very odd side panels. The sides look similar to some Pullman late-1930s lightweight boxcars, or is this just bad retouching?

In my ORER, D&LW 49000-49502 appear to be "normal" 40' IL, 10' IH boxcars of 3712 cubic feet, and a 100,000 capacity. Any thoughts? From the photo, this car was built 4-40.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

Re: Meat reefers

earlyrail
 

4 locations of 1000 or more. Local butchers/meat shows?
Could very well be a branch with a meat "route car" that ran once a week
Works like a LCL car, kept in the train an offloaded only to specified buyers.
This could have been at the end of a route that  started on the main line.

I have CGW documents that show some route cars took 3 days to complete their route.

Howard arner

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

CJ Riley
 

I am very intrigued by the “hot rod” driving along the tracks at lower left!



Re: DL&W Boxcar 49488 Photo

Schleigh Mike
 

Hello Garth & Group!

According to the ELRRHS re-printed 1952 DL&W freight car listing that I have mentioned in earlier times in these pages, DL&W 49498 was a member of series 49000-49499 built by Magor in Feb. to April of 1940.  There is no mention on the diagram of any side sheathing detail.  Sorry, no other help.

Regards from Grove City, Penna.    Mike Schleigh

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020, 07:30:57 PM EDT, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:


Friends,

While searching for Standard Container Company, I ran across this image of a DL&W boxcar, which appears to show very odd side panels. The sides look similar to some Pullman late-1930s lightweight boxcars, or is this just bad retouching?

In my ORER, D&LW 49000-49502 appear to be "normal" 40' IL, 10' IH boxcars of 3712 cubic feet, and a 100,000 capacity. Any thoughts? From the photo, this car was built 4-40.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

DL&W Boxcar 49488 Photo

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

While searching for Standard Container Company, I ran across this image of a DL&W boxcar, which appears to show very odd side panels. The sides look similar to some Pullman late-1930s lightweight boxcars, or is this just bad retouching?

In my ORER, D&LW 49000-49502 appear to be "normal" 40' IL, 10' IH boxcars of 3712 cubic feet, and a 100,000 capacity. Any thoughts? From the photo, this car was built 4-40.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

vapeurchapelon
 

>>Add three small cinders from a locomotive and it is ready to serve on an open observation platform.<<
 
So true, Chuck! And in case of some not-so-fine whisky don't forget a small drop of steam engine bearing oil to help getting that stuff down the throat. ;-)
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 08. April 2020 um 20:59 Uhr
Von: "Charles Peck" <lnnrr152@...>
An: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers
The proportion on whisky to ice is important, too.  Really fine whisky is delivered in barrels carried in a D/S trussrod boxcar. Carefully decanted and a bit of clear ice rubbed on the outside of the glass.  Add three small cinders from a locomotive and it is ready to serve on an open observation platform.
Chuck Peck

 
On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 2:30 PM O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:
So right Tony, bourbon is 100 times better over clear ice
Fenton
 
On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 2:23 PM Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:
Claus Schlund wrote:
 
I notice that the Armour Packing Co area has a portion of the building labeled as ‘Ice Machs’ – this makes me wonder if Armour owned the ice making equipment, and then used some portion of the ice for their own needs, and if Armour then possibly sold excess ice on a wholesale basis to Marion Ice, who perhaps in turn resold that ice on a retail basis.
     Remember that "commercial ice" was frozen as quickly as possible and accordingly contained really a lot of trapped air bubbles, making it at best translucent and often opaque and white. The ice consumers prefer to buy is frozen slowly enough for it to be clear or nearly so. Of course some consumer ice, intended for (literal) ice boxes or making ice cream, etc. can be the cloudy ice, but people would prefer not to put that into a drinking glass.
 
Tony Thompson
 

 

 

 
 
--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

 

 

Re: Standard Container Boxcar [was: Pres-To-Logs Boxcar]

vapeurchapelon
 

Hello Garth,
 
nice photo, and aside of the paint job (but I don't know that for sure) the car still looks fully steam-era (to me) with its full height ladders and running board. And it is a (rare?) example where the "glad hand" doesn't sit in its usual 30° angle! :-)
 
Many greetings
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 09. April 2020 um 01:14 Uhr
Von: "Garth Groff and Sally Sanford" <mallardlodge1000@...>
An: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Standard Container Boxcar [was: Pres-To-Logs Boxcar]
Alex and Claus,
 
Is it possible the Pres-to-Log car was strictly for in-plant use? Compare with the attached.
 
I shot Standard Container boxcar 1001 I shot in January 1982, I think in Homerville, Georgia. Since it lacks end numbers and a reporting mark, I must conclude this car was only for in-plant use. I haven't been able to locate any additional information about Standard Container Company, except that it is now a mid-level superfund site.
 
This car is, of course, way beyond our period mandate in this incarnation, but it certainly dates to around 1948.
 
Yours Aye,
 
 
Garth Groff  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

Re: Standard Container Boxcar [was: Pres-To-Logs Boxcar]

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Alex and Claus,

Is it possible the Pres-to-Log car was strictly for in-plant use? Compare with the attached.

I shot Standard Container boxcar 1001 I shot in January 1982, I think in Homerville, Georgia. Since it lacks end numbers and a reporting mark, I must conclude this car was only for in-plant use. I haven't been able to locate any additional information about Standard Container Company, except that it is now a mid-level superfund site.

This car is, of course, way beyond our period mandate in this incarnation, but it certainly dates to around 1948.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

Re: Fruit Growers & Western Fruit Overhead Bunker Reefers—was WFEX 1201-1202 freight reefers

Charlie Vlk
 

All
I meant to indicate that the Walthers model mentioned was O Scale and dates from the bronze and anvil era of the scale back in the immediate postwar period when 1/4” was outside third rail and powered with K&D motors about the same size as came on mixmasters.
Charlie Vlk


On Apr 8, 2020, at 4:47 PM, Charlie Vlk <cvlk@...> wrote:



Interesting subject.   When I saw the photos they reminded me of the CB&Q 300-325 Express Refrigerators and the 326-329 with Cream Compartment.

Interestingly, Walthers made a model of the 326-329 that had eight roof hatches, at least on the built-up one that was on eBay.

Charlie Vlk

Re: Photo: Pres-To-Logs Boxcar

Brian Termunde
 

I have a BUNCH of those cars, purchased a LONG time ago before I knew even what little I know now! <G>

Take Care,
 
Brian R. Termunde
Midvale, Utah


Hi Alex and List Members,

Alex wrote: "Bottom line, without further proof the car ever ran with that paint, I would hesitate to paint a model as such"

Depending on what scale you model, you may not have to do the paint at all, see link below...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/193412933598

Claus Schlund

Re: Meat reefers

Nelson Moyer
 

How many cars per train on average, and were trains dispatched both the East and West on different days? Were they solid blocks of Morrell cars? Where they strictly meat trains or did they include other freight or livestock? I knew about the Morrell plant in Ottumwa, and I’d like to model the Morrell train through Burlington on the way to Galesburg and points East.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of William Hirt
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2020 5:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

The Morrell meat traffic was important enough to the CB&Q that for a number of years the president of Morrell was on the CB&Q Board of Directors. The Q originated a train at Ottumwa IA each weekday afternoon just for the Morrell traffic. As Doug knows, Morrell slaughtered cattle, hogs and sheep in Ottumwa.

Bill Hirt

On 4/8/2020 10:30 AM, Douglas Harding wrote:

The Nickle Plate handled a lot of meat because it was a fast route. Meat was time sensitive and the meat packers wanted their products delivered as quickly as possible. Out of Omaha, meat packers could choose between six different railroads to get to Omaha. All roads were given meat traffic, with each road having a specific day when they go the majority of traffic. As rates were regulated, this was how the packers kept the railroads on their toes with demands for speed. The Illinois Central was the preferred route as the IC moved the meat faster than others. The CBQ had the option of going to Peoria for eastern connections instead of Chicago. East out of Chicago, the NKP was the preferred routing for meat going to NYC or New England.

 

I am not as well versed in meat traffic east of Chicago. Attached is a spreadsheet prepared by John Greedy and Jim Singer, which shows the meat traffic east of Chicago on various roads in the 50s.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

._,_

Re: Meat reefers

William Hirt
 

The Morrell meat traffic was important enough to the CB&Q that for a number of years the president of Morrell was on the CB&Q Board of Directors. The Q originated a train at Ottumwa IA each weekday afternoon just for the Morrell traffic. As Doug knows, Morrell slaughtered cattle, hogs and sheep in Ottumwa.

Bill Hirt

On 4/8/2020 10:30 AM, Douglas Harding wrote:

The Nickle Plate handled a lot of meat because it was a fast route. Meat was time sensitive and the meat packers wanted their products delivered as quickly as possible. Out of Omaha, meat packers could choose between six different railroads to get to Omaha. All roads were given meat traffic, with each road having a specific day when they go the majority of traffic. As rates were regulated, this was how the packers kept the railroads on their toes with demands for speed. The Illinois Central was the preferred route as the IC moved the meat faster than others. The CBQ had the option of going to Peoria for eastern connections instead of Chicago. East out of Chicago, the NKP was the preferred routing for meat going to NYC or New England.

 

I am not as well versed in meat traffic east of Chicago. Attached is a spreadsheet prepared by John Greedy and Jim Singer, which shows the meat traffic east of Chicago on various roads in the 50s.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

._,_

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

np328
 

  I will agree with much/all of the information Doug has posted.  And as Eldon has stated, I find in my research, there were branch offices all over. 
Here is a photo from 1926-1928 on the NP from Billings, MT. There are two of the smaller meat houses here and quite modelable examples. 

The Armour site can be clearly seen from the street side lettering, and the arrow pointing down on the right.
The Swift house is a bit down the block at the Swift sign can be seen to the left below the arrow.  
For those interested, the camera is looking west and is a block or so west past the Billings depot.                      Jim Dick - Roseville, MN 
                                                                                                                                                             

Re: Meat reefers

Bill Keene
 

Don,

There were 11 “towns” — four were flagstops and the rest were small — along the line. The Gridley Branch — officially the Burlington District — ran from BN Jct which was four miles south of Ottawa, Kansas. From BN Jct to Gridley was 52 miles. 

Homewood (f)…  maybe 200 souls at best
Ransomville (f)… less than 100. 50 sounds like a more realistic population in town plus surrounding farms
Williamsburg (s)… around 1000
Silkville (f)…  a wide spot in the tracks with perhaps 25 in town plus a number of scattered farmsteads. Plowed ground today. 
Agricola (s)…  around 1000
Waverly (s)… around 1000
Hall’s Summit (s)… another wide spot with perhaps 25 locally plus surrounding farms
Sharpe((s)… another wide spot with perhaps 25 locally plus surrounding farms
Burlington (s)… County seat of Coffey County, population 2500
Viva (f)… population zero. Basically a grain elevator and stock pen on a double ended spur. Plowed ground today. 
Gridley (s)…  300 souls in town plus those in surrounding farms. Also End of the Line. 

The route was somewhat hill and dale over rolling farmland. Small rolls. “Tis Kansas, you know. Crops basically wheat, corn, beans, and grazing. There was an oil patch (still is) NW of Gridley. 

Checking with the latest Sanborn maps that I have for Burlington (dated 1924) it does not appear this town had a wholesale meat company. Considering that this was the largest town on the line it may be assumed that none of the other smaller towns served had a branch wholesaler either. I believe that there may have been a branch facility in Ottawa, but I have not been able to located the maps for that town today.

It would be nice to include a meat reefer on the operation of the branch line. My thought is that by the 1952-53 modeling period this service might have been taken over by trucks. 

Thanks for the thoughts. I now have more to research.

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Apr 8, 2020, at 6:43 AM, Donald B. Valentine via groups.io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:

    Not so fast Bill Keene. How many towns were there on your 50 mile long branch and how
many of those towns had a market that sold fresh meat? Even into the earlier days of pre-cut
and/or pre-packaged meat the packers shipped cars destined to several customers on a set
routing. The car was dropped for the first customer who unloaded his goods that were separated
from those of the next customer by wrapping paper and then the car was moved to the next 
customer. This continued until the car was empty. On occasion re-icing was required. Let's just
say that in those years people were more honest as I doubt this would work today unless all 
unloading were done under the watchful eye of the local agent, if one could still be found, and 
the car was resealed. The times are not only "achanging" they have changed drastically in 
the lives of many of us on this list and I'm not convinced that the majority of those changes 
have been for the better!

Cordially, Don Valentine

Re: Looking for Tom Casey

Ted Schnepf
 

Hi Jared,

He was at a local op session about 3 months ago.

Ted Schnepf
126 Will Scarlet,
Elgin, Ill. 60120


847=697-5353

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020, 03:41:02 PM CDT, Jared Harper <harperandbrown@...> wrote:


In  January 2017, I approached Tom Casey and offered to pay him to complete my Santa Fe coach, baggage, and caboose car 2375 that I had started scratchbuilding. (I hate to build models and this will be my only passenger car.) He said it sounded like an interesting project as he had never built a wood passenger car.  On January 30th I packed up the model, most of the building materials, and the prototype data and mailed it to him.  He received my package and e-mailed me on February 12, saying again that it looked like a fun project.  May 7, 2017, Tom e-mailed to say the model should be finished by the end of the month.  As time passed I asked Tom for another status report on July 18, 2017. Tom  finally responded by e-mail on  July 26, with 30+ photos of the model with a list of items  that still needed to be  completed. Tom and I made a connection at the October 2018 Naperville meet and he showed me the the mostly completed model.  On March 27, 2019, Tom sent an e-mail that said the model would be completed in a week or so and he would send a paint sample.  A year has passed and I haven't heard anything from Tom.  A couple of months ago I sent a registered letter tha elicited no response.

Does  anyone know what has happened to Tom Casey? I really want the coach, baggage and caboose car.  My operations are not authentic until I receive the car. 
Jared Harper
706-543-8821













































A few years back I contacted Tom Casey in Barrington, IL, to ask if I could pay him to scratchbuild a model of Santa Fe coach, baggage, and caboose car 2375.  He said he would like to do it just for the experience and he would do it gratis.  I sent him all the prototype data, and modeling materials.









Re: Photo: Pres-To-Logs Boxcar

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Alex and List Members,

Alex wrote: "Bottom line, without further proof the car ever ran with that paint, I would hesitate to paint a model as such"

Depending on what scale you model, you may not have to do the paint at all, see link below...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/193412933598

Claus Schlund


Curious about a billboard boxcar rather than a reefer, I did a little research.  Note there are no reporting marks.  I searched a 1927 and a 1944 Equipment Register.  No reporting marks listed for the Presto Log Company or Potlatch Lumber Co.  The car number and cubic capacity matches a W, I & M boxcar.  Oddly, the W, I & M did not show assigned reporting marks in the ER, but gives instructions for per diem payments.  An internet list of reporting marks assigns WIM to the railroad.  The same reporting marks are officially assigned to a successor company, the Washington & Idaho.  It runs on both ex-BN and WI&M track.

Bottom line, without further proof the car ever ran with that paint, I would hesitate to paint a model as such.

Alex Huff, who once worked the front end of a Budd stainless steel ATSF lunch counter diner that used an oven fired with Presto logs

Re: Meat reefers

Richard Townsend
 

Here is a quote from Swift's annual report for 1929:

"Products gathered and prepared ...  are sold by a sales organization consisting of over 450 branch selling houses, located in the large consuming centers, and more than 700 car routes which serve retailers in over 7,000 of the smaller cities and towns with direct refrigerator car shipments."

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
._,_

Re: Fruit Growers & Western Fruit Overhead Bunker Reefers—was WFEX 1201-1202 freight reefers

Charlie Vlk
 

Interesting subject.   When I saw the photos they reminded me of the CB&Q 300-325 Express Refrigerators and the 326-329 with Cream Compartment.

Interestingly, Walthers made a model of the 326-329 that had eight roof hatches, at least on the built-up one that was on eBay.

Charlie Vlk

Re: Meat reefers

Richard Townsend
 

There is an error in the web address. It should be railsunlimited.ribbonrail.com

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Schnepf <railsunl@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Apr 8, 2020 1:17 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

Hi Garth and list,

I also offer a Western Pacific shippers guide from 1957, and it is $29.95, plus shipping. It can be viewed at my website railsunlimite.ribbonrail.com.


Rails Unlimited
Ted Schnepf
126 Will Scarlet,
Elgin, Ill. 60120


847=697-5353

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020, 11:46:24 AM CDT, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:


RJ,

You need to order up a copy of Western Pacific circular 167-E from the CSRM (possibly the only original left; my photocopy cost about $60, and I haven't regretted the investment one bit). It lists EVERY customer served by the WP/SN/TS/CCT directly or regularly via team tracks, and also includes customers on the SP, UP, ATSF and a few other railroads in towns where a car might be handed off. The piece is circa 1957, based on what is there and what is missing among towns served by the SN . A look through this will tell you a lot about where meat packing or meat distribution facilities were.

For example, the WP served a Swift & Co. facility at 3rd and Clay in Oakland, with a track capacity of two cars. Apparently this was a distribution facility for packaged meat products. Just in case you have Adam Clegg's WESTERN PACIFIC COLOR PICTORIAL v. 1, there is a shot of this building on page 26.

I just rambled through Sacramento in the circular and found these possible customers: WP--Valley Wholesale Groceries; SN--Lancaster Wholesale Grocery  ; SP--Armour, Swift, United Grocers, Tiedemann & McMorran (wholesale grocery); general team tracks--Maderight Sausage, Murphy Meat, Pureta Sausage. There was also a Safeway facility listed only as "produce", though I'm a bit dubious about that. There were also two packing plants at Peethill (West Sacramento) on the SN, but I think these received animals to slaughter for local sales.

So there certainly were the possibilities of Swift reefers showing up in Oakland via the WP, and both Swift and Armour in Sacramento via the SP, plus the possibility of other small mid-west packers shipping to grocers and the sausage companies either in their own marked cars, or in "Plain Jane" refrigerators.

Another intriguing refrigerator is a 4-hatch CN car on the SN at Lake Temescal in late 1956 (seen in James Harrison's SACRAMENTO NORTHERN GALLERY, page [24]). What was it doing there?

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿



On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 11:46 AM radiodial868 <radiodial57@...> wrote:
So it is safe to say that meat reefers were not a west coast thing, say 1930's/1940's?  I have not seen any in period pictures, but doesn't mean they didn't exist.  I have a couple of Sylvan meat reefer kits I keep wondering if I should build to run on Western Pacific/Southern Pacific consists.
--
-------------------
RJ Dial

Mendocino, CA