Date   
Re: Proto2000 Boxcars

George Eichelberger
 

The cars were built with wood running and "latitudinal" boards and replaced later.

The Evans auto racks were removed from most of the cars after a few years. I don’t know if the end doors were welded shut but they were not used (I’m sure there are exceptions).

The first order, built in 1938, were given the original SR Monogram (never called a “herald!). Dates on that are a bit “iffy”, the pencil version in the SRHA archives of the drawing dates to 1938 (because of the new all-steel 40’ and 50’ box cars delivered then?) but the “official” linen tracing was not issued just after WWII (details are in the SRHA book).

We need more photo evidence of which monogram was put on the cars in '44 and '45 because the few in original paint in the SRHA collection are faded but appear to show the second version where “The Southern serves the south” was not equally spaced around the outer circle. The question is further confused because the monograms on many stencil placement diagrams were never changed. As a “stencil” drawing was not intended to show the details of any specific stencil, only their placement on a car and the size of the monogram on box cars did not change, the shops and carbuilders simply applied the correct stencil per the drawing list.

I am (mostly) confident that all 50’ box cars after the 1938 order were given the second version.

Another factoid about the SR monogram…on the first 40’ and 50’ all steel cars, aluminum stencil paste was used. It’s hard to confirm that with B&W photos but the stencil drawings are specific, and shows the change to white. The Southern stopped using aluminum stencil paste about the same time they stopped using alum. pain on their DL-109s and 110s. Certainly WWII on the horizon led to that decision.

Ike

Re: Still have one resin kit for sale

erieblt2
 

Yikes! I had not heard that the NEB&W was gone! Why? What happened? I bought lots of good stuff from them when they had a hobby shop(early 90’s). The Guides they published are very useful. I agree-someone with deep pockets will hopefully step in. They could sell off sections, buildings, equipment. There is a list of whole or sections of ‘famous’/MR project layouts. We’ve poured a lot of time on the historically accurate layout in the Washington State History Museum(PSMRE). Our hope is that it will be as ‘permanent’ as is possible in the world. Bruce Chubbs ‘Sunset Valley’ is to be -hopefully-saved. Sad to think the hobby may someday be only seen in museums. Bill Smith


On May 5, 2020, at 6:59 AM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



I think that is the kit also used for the NEB&W (RPI) fictional railroad, if anyone is so inclined.
The layout was dismantled last year and WAS going to be moved but with RPI in dire financial
straits now, who knows what will happen without a rich benefactor? I know there are some
LOADED model railroad buffs out there... :-D

Tim O'Connor


On 5/4/2020 8:01 PM, Jared Harper wrote:
I have a Rutland Car Shops resin kit for a Rutland 36' Rutland stock car.  With some work it can be bashed into a Santa Fe stock car.  Steve Sandifer did it.  My kit is for sale for $25 plus  shipping.

Jared Harper
420 Woodward Way
Athens, GA 30606


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Proto2000 Boxcars

Tim O'Connor
 


The P2K end door cars are correct for the Southern. P2K mostly kept close to the prototype in their
paint schemes.

Tim O'Connor


On 5/4/2020 4:21 PM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford wrote:
Allen,

Our friend Fenton Wells wrote an article in the November 2012 RMC on kitbashing the Southern cars to 10' IH.

I do not see Southern represented in two RMJ articles on the Lifelike cars by Richard Hendrickson, October 1995 and September 1996.

The 1944 ORER lists three classes of 50' 10' 6' IH double door boxcars with 15' 6" door openings: 40200-40249 (end doors and auto racks), 41500-41549 (end doors, no racks), 42000-42299 (no end doors or auto racks). Curiously, the total number of cars in each group is not filled in, suggesting they were pending delivery when the ORER was printed, though the "denotes additions" triangles are missing.

I have unbuilt Lifelike kit 21027 for Southern 40249, and kit 8419 for 42010. I seem to remember there was something a bit dodgy about these two cars, maybe the sills or something. They do look nice.

The only thing I can add is that I have a copy of a builder's photo of 39969 circa 1947. This car has Superior doors and 4/4 improved Dreadnaught ends.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 3:42 PM Allen Cain <Allencaintn@...> wrote:
Old subject but my memory is fading for some reason?

Were the P2K boxcars painted for the Southern accurate to any prototype?  I have several plus some undecorated kits that I am finally getting around to.

Thanks,

Allen Cain


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Proto2000 Boxcars

Tim O'Connor
 


The most common difference between the prototype double door cars and the model is the doors
and the size of the door opening. And other things. (NKP had Viking roofs. Wabash had Superior
doors. usw.)

Also the FIRST RUN of Proto 2000 50 foot box cars had incorrect roofs ! I think many people tend
not to notice this - They had the wrong number of panels!

I believe it was fixed on the cars without end doors.

Tim O'Connor




On 5/4/2020 3:48 PM, rdgbuff56 via groups.io wrote:
Not sure.  But do have an updated for sale list.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.

On Monday, May 4, 2020, 7:42:23 PM UTC, Allen Cain <allencaintn@...> wrote:


Old subject but my memory is fading for some reason?

Were the P2K boxcars painted for the Southern accurate to any prototype?  I have several plus some undecorated kits that I am finally getting around to.

Thanks,

Allen Cain
_._,_._,

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Photo Gallery: PPKX 5568 (Poultry Car)

Alex Huff
 

Isn't this car the sole survivor of its type?  Was this car set aside/retired in Paris, Illinois for years?

Alex Huff

Re: Another Proto2000 question

Tim O'Connor
 


The model is almost exactly right for the UP A-50-17, but they were built in 1941. And to make a
more accurate model, use Archer's "alternate center rivet" decals and make modifications to the side sill.
Late in life some cars lost their doors and were put into fresh wood veneer service.




On 5/4/2020 7:10 PM, Ron Merrick wrote:
Sorry I can't look this up for myself, but I've moved most of my reference material and not myself.

There are more than one Proto2000 50' double door box with end doors available on line, in the yellow lettering Be Specific and in a transitional red with white lettering with the shield UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD, and Automated Rail Way scheme.  I decaled one in the Be Specific scheme years ago, so my question is whether this scheme is legitimate and common.  This model, by the way, is marked NEW 9-56, which I know is not matching with the details of the car construction.

Second, related, question -- did these cars, which were probably early 40s construction, generally get roofwalk replacements?

https://www.ebay.com/itm//333548211837

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Still have one resin kit for sale

Tim O'Connor
 


I think that is the kit also used for the NEB&W (RPI) fictional railroad, if anyone is so inclined.
The layout was dismantled last year and WAS going to be moved but with RPI in dire financial
straits now, who knows what will happen without a rich benefactor? I know there are some
LOADED model railroad buffs out there... :-D

Tim O'Connor


On 5/4/2020 8:01 PM, Jared Harper wrote:
I have a Rutland Car Shops resin kit for a Rutland 36' Rutland stock car.  With some work it can be bashed into a Santa Fe stock car.  Steve Sandifer did it.  My kit is for sale for $25 plus  shipping.

Jared Harper
420 Woodward Way
Athens, GA 30606


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Model Railroad 10 Year Archive 201-2019

Nelson Moyer
 

I purchased the subject DVD with the intent of loading the database to my desktop and searching across issues for freight car data like I do with the 40 year MR archive. Unfortunately, neither seems possible, as the disk is copy protected, and the only search function is for each individual monthly issue open as a pdf file. Even more objectionable to me is that the archive comes on two DVDs, meaning one must physically change DVDs to view the entire archive. None of this was revealed prior to purchase. Caveat Emptor!!

 

Nelson Moyer

Re: Proto2000 Boxcars

O Fenton Wells
 

Some of the P2k heralds are bas and decals are needed, Mask Island or Speedwitch


On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 9:01 AM Allen Cain <Allencaintn@...> wrote:
Garth,

Both the herald and running boards are good questions. Maybe someone has the answers 

If the herald was correct for the 1944 build date , not saying it is, would it have been repainted with the post war herald for mid 1950s service?

And were the wooden roof walks replaced by the mid 1950s (have the rules for them somewhere)?

Anyone?

Allen Cain



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

Re: Proto2000 Boxcars

Allen Cain
 

Garth,

Both the herald and running boards are good questions. Maybe someone has the answers 

If the herald was correct for the 1944 build date , not saying it is, would it have been repainted with the post war herald for mid 1950s service?

And were the wooden roof walks replaced by the mid 1950s (have the rules for them somewhere)?

Anyone?

Allen Cain

DL&W low-sided gondola #60237 at Utica, NY on 06/25/1915

Brian Rochon
 

From the Steamtown files today.

 

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-05-05-20/C2768.jpg

 

Brian Rochon

Silver Spring, MD

Re: Proto2000 Boxcars

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Allen,

We have a mystery here. My 1958 ORER lists the IH as 10' 6", and with no auto racks. The end doors are there. I suppose it is possible that at some point the end doors were bolted shut, and then restored for an assigned service of some sort. There are no special service or exemption notes with this group of cars though. I only have loose pages for Southern from the 1944 ORER (I was only interested in their ventilator cars at that point).

After thinking about it last night, I think I remember that on one or the other of these cars the herald was not correct for 1944. Both of my models have an original 1944 reweigh date and two different styles of herald, and it isn't the post-war herald we usually associate with Southern. Southern's herald did got through several iterations. Lifelike included wooden running boards in both kits. It would be interesting to learn if these were replaced with steel running boards.

I never assembled these cars because my little L-shaped shelf layout has a curve that spirals down to 22" radius at its tightest point. 50' cars look absurd going through that curve, to say nothing of my 65' combine. I've stuck to 40' cars for a number of years. I will build them someday.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff 🦆 


On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 9:05 PM Allen Cain <Allencaintn@...> wrote:
  Thanks Garth.

Trying to decide to sell them or keep them.

Tending toward keeping them and squinting when I look at them to convince myself that they are accurate, or just not worry about it.

My October 1955 ORER lists 49 cars in the 40200 to 40249 which are 50' 6" long with double staggered doors and an inside height of 10' 8" with no reference to end doors.  P2K did the Southern boxcars in this number series but that it all that I can come up with right now.

And for some reason Ike's boxcar book is in hiding tonight.  Once I flush it out maybe it will shed more light on this P2K kit.

Allen

Greg Martin

Mikebrock
 

Prototype Rails has lost one of its founders and I have lost a dear friend, Greg Martin. . Greg was the Voice of Prototype Rails. More than that, of course, he was a key part of operation of the meet, handling the auction along with Mark Kerlick. He also was the power behind the Shake N' Take. Greg and I go back to the origins of Prototype Rails, many years ago. Like many, I watched Greg's fight, praying he would pull through. I will have trouble losing him. Condolences to his family.

 

Mike Brock

KIngan Employee Magazines was Kingan Reefers

Brian Carlson
 

A few folks asked that I post the link to the Kingan employee magazines I found online during my reefer rabbit hole. Here is the link. http://cdm16066.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/search/collection/p16066coll50/searchterm/kingan%20folks/field/all/mode/all/conn/and/order/title/ad/asc

 

I understand there is a Bull Shippers group, and this might interest them also so if anyone is on that group, share away.

 

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY

 

Re: Greg Martin

Richard Townsend
 

I am proud to have called Greg my friend. He was such a good and generous man. Kitbashing is my favorite part of the hobby and I felt he was a kindred spirit. 

I'm very much a loner-type, and he often encouraged me to go to Cocoa Beach. As a result, in 2018 and again this year I went. He made a point of including me in various conversations and activities, and introducing me around. 

He lived about 50 miles from me and I used to run into him from time to time at our "local" hobby shop (about 90 miles from me and 40 from him) or at swap meets. A couple of years ago he came by my table at a swap meet where, among other things, I had several C&BT double door box cars for sale. He told me I should hang onto them as they would being coming in handy soon. I assumed he was talking about an upcoming S'n'T project. He got a great deal of joy out of keeping S'n'T projects secret, so I knew better than to ask him about it.

Late last year he and I shared some tables at a local swap meet and during that day I learned so much from him as we chatted at slow times about items on our tables or what we could pick up at others' tables. As he would tell me about a kitbashing opportunity I would circulate around the room to pick up the model he was talking about. I was able to find a couple of items for him, too.

He organized an RPM meet in Salem, Oregon, called "Rails by the River," for a couple of years, until his health issues got in the way. In January at Cocoa Beach he told me he was planning on reviving it next year.

I will miss him terribly. Cocoa Beach certainly won't be the same without him.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: golden1014 via groups.io <golden1014@...>
To: realstmfc@groups.io <realstmfc@groups.io>
Sent: Sat, May 2, 2020 12:17 pm
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Greg Martin

Hi Guys,

I case you never met him, I thought I'd share of my friend "TGreg", as I called him, at Cocoa Beach in January 2009.  That's Greg on the right and Chris "Ziggy" Zygmunt at left.

Godspeed, brother.



John Golden
Ramstein-Miesenbach, Germany

RPM Blog: https://railroadprototypemodeler.wordpress.com/

Re: Proto2000 Boxcars

Allen Cain
 

  Thanks Garth.

Trying to decide to sell them or keep them.

Tending toward keeping them and squinting when I look at them to convince myself that they are accurate, or just not worry about it.

My October 1955 ORER lists 49 cars in the 40200 to 40249 which are 50' 6" long with double staggered doors and an inside height of 10' 8" with no reference to end doors.  P2K did the Southern boxcars in this number series but that it all that I can come up with right now.

And for some reason Ike's boxcar book is in hiding tonight.  Once I flush it out maybe it will shed more light on this P2K kit.

Allen

Re: NPRHA decals for Rapido NP box.

Doug Pillow
 

I could see much better the old Champ decals on pink backing paper . Some of the sets were excellent
Doug Pillow

Still have one resin kit for sale

Jared Harper
 

I have a Rutland Car Shops resin kit for a Rutland 36' Rutland stock car.  With some work it can be bashed into a Santa Fe stock car.  Steve Sandifer did it.  My kit is for sale for $25 plus  shipping.

Jared Harper
420 Woodward Way
Athens, GA 30606

Another Proto2000 question

mopacfirst
 

Sorry I can't look this up for myself, but I've moved most of my reference material and not myself.

There are more than one Proto2000 50' double door box with end doors available on line, in the yellow lettering Be Specific and in a transitional red with white lettering with the shield UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD, and Automated Rail Way scheme.  I decaled one in the Be Specific scheme years ago, so my question is whether this scheme is legitimate and common.  This model, by the way, is marked NEW 9-56, which I know is not matching with the details of the car construction.

Second, related, question -- did these cars, which were probably early 40s construction, generally get roofwalk replacements?

ebay item number 333548211837
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-Scale-Proto-2000-30339-UP-Union-Pacific-50-Double-Door-Box-Car-161413/333548211837?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160727114228%26meid%3D98c106fc841e419b84ef626996fcff05%26pid%3D100290%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D402251792501%26itm%3D333548211837%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2060778&_trksid=p2060778.c100290.m3507

Ron Merrick

Re: NPRHA decals for Rapido NP box.

Rod Miller
 

I've had the same experience. I believe it was because I used a permanent marker which must contain some solvents.

What luck have people had with non-permanent markers?