Date   
The Spring issue of The Keystone Modeler is available

Bruce Smith
 

Folks,


The Spring, 2020 issue (#112) of The Keystone Modeler is now available on the PRRT&HS web site at: http://www.prrths.com/newprr_files/newPRRKeystoneModeler.htm


A gentle reminder - If you don't see the issue listed, reload the web page so as to refresh your cache.


Regards,

Bruce 

Bruce Smith, Assistant webmaster, PRRT&HS

Re: Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons

Jack Mullen
 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 04:07 PM, Claus Schlund \(HGM\) wrote:
Dan wrote: “No ladders on right end and left end grabs are insufficient”
 
These gons were built in the late 1920s. What the safety requirements were at the time regarding right side ladders and end grabs, I cannot say.
At that time, and for long thereafter, the U.S. Safety Appliance standards for a low-side gon (sides 36" or less above floor) required only a single horizontal handhold at each end of the side, placed 24" to 36" above coupler centerline. For the ends, horizontal handholds were required on the sill, but handholds were not required on drop ends.  The CSCO car seems to cover the bases.

So, markings meet interchange requirements. Safety appliances meet interchange requirements. The  car is listed in the Equipment Register. It belongs to a steel mill in Pennsylvania, and evidently was photographed in Utah. I'll bet it's in interchange service delivering its owner's steel products.

Jack Mullen

Re: Dated search

Guy Wilber
 

Joe Nevin wrote:

“Has someone figured out how to search for a quoted string in the messages and have most recent first?  Or restricted by a date range.  After transitioning to Groups.io I have not figured a way.”

Click on View/Reply online...click the messages box for all in the thread.  In the upper right is a date tab...click it and it reverses the sequence of the messages.

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada_._,_._,_

Re: NPRHA decals for Rapido NP box.

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Light blue for decal paper is an improvement over white, but why can’t it be a medium blue instead of light robin’s egg blue . . .???

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Carlson via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 8:17 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] NPRHA decals for Rapido NP box.

 

Last year I purchased some decals for the Rapido NP boxcar since I knew I’d have to tweak my models for my era.

 

 

 I must say this were some of the nicest decals I have ever used. I was working with decorated models so I only needed to change reweigh and repack dates but I applied Over 40 little decals to the model since they included chalk marks, reweigh and repack data printed on car body colors and placards. 

 

The film is very thin and everything laid down Nicely with micro sol. 

 

I have repack and reweigh data and a few spare Monads for a few more NP cars. 

 

My only issue was I could not read some of the smallest data on the backing. I’ve had this problem with other decals too. 

 

I’ll post pics of the cars when they are weathered.  I just wanted to give the NPRHA a public shout out about the decals. 

Brian J. Carlson 

Re: Dated search

Jack Mullen
 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 07:30 PM, Joe Nevin wrote:
Has someone figured out how to search for a quoted string in the messages and have most recent first? 
Joe, 
I'm  not sure what your experience has been, but when I do a search the results appear in descending date order. 
I haven't tried restricting the date range, which is probably just as well. I'm often amazed at how long ago some remembered item was originally posted.

Jack Mullen

Dated search

Joe Nevin
 

Has someone figured out how to search for a quoted string in the messages and have most recent first?  Or restricted by a date range.After transitioning to Groups.io I have not figured a way.

Joe Nevin

 

Photo: LPTC 847 (Poultry Car)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: LPTC 847 (Poultry Car)

An undated photo of a poultry car from WorthPoint:

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/live-poultry-transportation-company-11549263

Unfortunately, the photo is just a little bit too small to identify the name over the door. Many of the Live Poultry Company cars were named.

Bob Chaparro

Moderator

Railway Bull Shippers Group

https://groups.io/g/RailwayBullShippersGroup

NPRHA decals for Rapido NP box.

Brian Carlson
 

Last year I purchased some decals for the Rapido NP boxcar since I knew I’d have to tweak my models for my era.


 I must say this were some of the nicest decals I have ever used. I was working with decorated models so I only needed to change reweigh and repack dates but I applied Over 40 little decals to the model since they included chalk marks, reweigh and repack data printed on car body colors and placards. 

The film is very thin and everything laid down Nicely with micro sol. 

I have repack and reweigh data and a few spare Monads for a few more NP cars. 

My only issue was I could not read some of the smallest data on the backing. I’ve had this problem with other decals too. 

I’ll post pics of the cars when they are weathered.  I just wanted to give the NPRHA a public shout out about the decals. 

Brian J. Carlson 

Re: Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
Some additional info, I believe I have found the approximate date when these cars were ordered from Standard Steel Car Co – see Feb 1925 issue of Railway and Locomotive Engineering page 61 at the link below. The car count (12 cars) and the tonnage (70 tons) is spot on for these gondolas. And so it does appear that Carnegie Steel went to an outside builder for these cars!
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
 
 
 

From: Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 6:29 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons
 
Hi List Members,
 
Oh, forgot to mention, the fact that these are the only gondolas listed under Carnegie Steel in this ORER makes me think they may have been intended to be interchanged and used for mainline service, not just for in-plant service.
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
From: Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 6:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons
 
Hi List Members,
 
I have some more info on the 65 foot gondola CSCO 534... listed under Carnegie Steel Company, it is part of series 526-537 in the Dec 1930 ORER.
 
See info at the link below.
 
 
In particular, “Note A” references these cars and sez “Cars in series 526 to 537 marked C. S. Co., Homestead Works”. The notes further indicate “Make separate reports for cars marked ‘C. S. Co., Homestead Works’ to Wm. Donald, Auditor, Carnegie Building, Pittsburgh, Pa. June 1930”
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
From: Claus Schlund
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 1:10 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons
 
Hi Eric and List Members,
 
The car sez HOMESTEAD WORKS on it, this indicates Homestead Steel Works which was bought up and integrated into Carnegie Steel.
 
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
From: Eric Hansmann
Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2020 5:01 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons
 
Could it be Cambria Steel? They also built freight cars. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On May 2, 2020, at 1:02 PM, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:

Hi List Members,
 
I believe it was Carnegie Steel that built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons for their own internal plant use. It was the success of these gons that quickly convinced the railroads to buy similar cars.
 
These two images linked below illustrate the car CSCO 534 nicely...
 
 
 
As I recall, one of the TSC books had an image of one of these cars, for those in search of yet one more image.
 
I suspect the CSCO 65 foot gons may not have been used interchange service, and perhaps never left the plant. Can anyone on the list confirm or deny this?
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 

Re: Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons

Eric Hansmann
 

Two grabs on the left end of the car were not a requirement until 1932-33. New and newly rebuilt cars received the two grabs. There are freight cars that made it into the 1940s with only one grab on the left end.  

The other end may seem odd with only one grab but the deep end sill was considered a step, so a grab between the sill step and the one on the car side may not have been required.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


On May 3, 2020 at 5:06 PM "Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)" <claus@...> wrote:

Hi Dan and List Members,

Dan wrote: “No ladders on right end and left end grabs are insufficient”

These gons were built in the late 1920s. What the safety requirements were at the time regarding right side ladders and end grabs, I cannot say.

The cars are classified as ARA class GM in the ORER, meaning a mill gon with drop ends. I don’t know how the drop end feature may impact the presence (or lack thereof) of end grabs

Others out there have any thoughts on this?

Claus Schlund




From: Dan Smith
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 6:48 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons

Hello All,

I seriously doubt that this gon was used in interchange.

One thing that no one has pointed out, this gon does not comply with the safety appliance act. No ladders on right end
and left end grabs are insufficient.

Any others see the same thing?

Dan Smith

 


Re: Tank Car Placard Locations

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Blow up the photo and look at the end car of the string to the right.  It is UTLX 5722 from the same series of cars.  It now has the end safety placard hung from the running board to the right of the couple/center line.

 

Dave Parker and I had a good discussion of safety placards as I was completing the UTLX book and there is a segment near the end of the book discussing them.  (Shameless plug:  the book is still available from Speedwitch!)  :>)

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 2:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tank Car Placard Locations

 

And on closer examination, UTLX 5274's current placard is pasted onto the tank on not on a placard board, as I had thought.

 

Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Dave Parker via groups.io <spottab@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 1:46 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tank Car Placard Locations

 

This photo dates to a time (1920) where the requirement for placard holds on tank cars was just being phased in.  Prior, just about anything would do, including pasting a paper placard directly onto the tank as seen here. 

The new regs of 1920 required boards that allowed for the placards to be attached in the "diamond" orientation, but that was about it.  With time, the 1927 ARA standards specified the placard bards be in the more towards the middle of the car.  In October of 1932, the standard called for metal-frame holders that the placard could be dropped into.

I've never seen a standard for where the holders on the car ends needed to be, but they seem to be almost universally to the right of center.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CAa

Re: Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Dan and List Members,
 
Dan wrote: “No ladders on right end and left end grabs are insufficient”
 
These gons were built in the late 1920s. What the safety requirements were at the time regarding right side ladders and end grabs, I cannot say.
 
The cars are classified as ARA class GM in the ORER, meaning a mill gon with drop ends. I don’t know how the drop end feature may impact the presence (or lack thereof) of end grabs
 
Others out there have any thoughts on this?
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
 

From: Dan Smith
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 6:48 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons
 
Hello All,

I seriously doubt that this gon was used in interchange.

One thing that no one has pointed out, this gon does not comply with the safety appliance act. No ladders on right end
and left end grabs are insufficient.

Any others see the same thing?

Dan Smith

Re: Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons

 

Hello All,

I seriously doubt that this gon was used in interchange.

One thing that no one has pointed out, this gon does not comply with the safety appliance act. No ladders on right end
and left end grabs are insufficient.

Any others see the same thing?

Dan Smith

Re: Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
Oh, forgot to mention, the fact that these are the only gondolas listed under Carnegie Steel in this ORER makes me think they may have been intended to be interchanged and used for mainline service, not just for in-plant service.
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 

From: Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 6:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons
 
Hi List Members,
 
I have some more info on the 65 foot gondola CSCO 534... listed under Carnegie Steel Company, it is part of series 526-537 in the Dec 1930 ORER.
 
See info at the link below.
 
 
In particular, “Note A” references these cars and sez “Cars in series 526 to 537 marked C. S. Co., Homestead Works”. The notes further indicate “Make separate reports for cars marked ‘C. S. Co., Homestead Works’ to Wm. Donald, Auditor, Carnegie Building, Pittsburgh, Pa. June 1930”
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
From: Claus Schlund
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 1:10 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons
 
Hi Eric and List Members,
 
The car sez HOMESTEAD WORKS on it, this indicates Homestead Steel Works which was bought up and integrated into Carnegie Steel.
 
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
From: Eric Hansmann
Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2020 5:01 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons
 
Could it be Cambria Steel? They also built freight cars. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On May 2, 2020, at 1:02 PM, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:

Hi List Members,
 
I believe it was Carnegie Steel that built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons for their own internal plant use. It was the success of these gons that quickly convinced the railroads to buy similar cars.
 
These two images linked below illustrate the car CSCO 534 nicely...
 
 
 
As I recall, one of the TSC books had an image of one of these cars, for those in search of yet one more image.
 
I suspect the CSCO 65 foot gons may not have been used interchange service, and perhaps never left the plant. Can anyone on the list confirm or deny this?
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 

Re: Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
I have some more info on the 65 foot gondola CSCO 534... listed under Carnegie Steel Company, it is part of series 526-537 in the Dec 1930 ORER.
 
See info at the link below.
 
 
In particular, “Note A” references these cars and sez “Cars in series 526 to 537 marked C. S. Co., Homestead Works”. The notes further indicate “Make separate reports for cars marked ‘C. S. Co., Homestead Works’ to Wm. Donald, Auditor, Carnegie Building, Pittsburgh, Pa. June 1930”
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 

From: Claus Schlund
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2020 1:10 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons
 
Hi Eric and List Members,
 
The car sez HOMESTEAD WORKS on it, this indicates Homestead Steel Works which was bought up and integrated into Carnegie Steel.
 
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
From: Eric Hansmann
Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2020 5:01 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Carnegie Steel built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons
 
Could it be Cambria Steel? They also built freight cars. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On May 2, 2020, at 1:02 PM, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:

Hi List Members,
 
I believe it was Carnegie Steel that built some of the earliest 65 foot mill gons for their own internal plant use. It was the success of these gons that quickly convinced the railroads to buy similar cars.
 
These two images linked below illustrate the car CSCO 534 nicely...
 
 
 
As I recall, one of the TSC books had an image of one of these cars, for those in search of yet one more image.
 
I suspect the CSCO 65 foot gons may not have been used interchange service, and perhaps never left the plant. Can anyone on the list confirm or deny this?
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 

Re: Photo: NP Reefer 91725

Hudson Leighton <hudsonl@...>
 

Disregard the caption, I put in the information for 1st 91725, and it should have been 2nd 91725.

-Hudson

Re: Photo: LV Boxcar 62182 With Weed Chains Load

Charles Peck
 

If it worked, here is an advertisement for Weed Chains.
If not, here is a link.
Chuck Peck 
 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 4:42 PM Lee via groups.io <leetrains=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I’m thinking these may have been chains that had sharpened edges that were dragged behind a tractor or run off a PTO driven propeller under a platform deck.  Would cut the weeds and thicker grasses without disturbing the ground too much and creating a lot of dust. Plus if it hit a rock they didn’t create sparks or bust a typical blade. 


Lee Stoermer
Aldie, VA

On Sunday, May 3, 2020, 13:10, Charles Peck <lnnrr152@...> wrote:

Snow chains were invented by Harry Weed in 1904.
Chuck Peck

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 12:46 PM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: LV Boxcar 62182 With Weed Chains Load

A 1915 photo from the Utah State Historical Society:

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/ark:/87278/s6891hs0

From the text on the banner I guess those folks in Utah had been using their electric weed-whackers before this car arrived, assuming that earlier they had received a carload of extension cords.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: Photo: LV Boxcar 62182 With Weed Chains Load

Patrick Wade
 

If you Google weed chains for grass cutting there will be an image of a hub to fit on a weed whacker like device with two lengths of chain extending from the hub. Similar to a medieval flailing weapon. 

Pat Wade
Santa Barbara, CA 

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 1:42 PM Lee via groups.io <leetrains=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I’m thinking these may have been chains that had sharpened edges that were dragged behind a tractor or run off a PTO driven propeller under a platform deck.  Would cut the weeds and thicker grasses without disturbing the ground too much and creating a lot of dust. Plus if it hit a rock they didn’t create sparks or bust a typical blade. 


Lee Stoermer
Aldie, VA

On Sunday, May 3, 2020, 13:10, Charles Peck <lnnrr152@...> wrote:

Snow chains were invented by Harry Weed in 1904.
Chuck Peck

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 12:46 PM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: LV Boxcar 62182 With Weed Chains Load

A 1915 photo from the Utah State Historical Society:

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/ark:/87278/s6891hs0

From the text on the banner I guess those folks in Utah had been using their electric weed-whackers before this car arrived, assuming that earlier they had received a carload of extension cords.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: Photo: LV Boxcar 62182 With Weed Chains Load

Lee
 

Hit send before adding the link of a more current version. 






Lee Stoermer
Aldie, VA

On Sunday, May 3, 2020, 16:42, Lee via groups.io <leetrains@...> wrote:

I’m thinking these may have been chains that had sharpened edges that were dragged behind a tractor or run off a PTO driven propeller under a platform deck.  Would cut the weeds and thicker grasses without disturbing the ground too much and creating a lot of dust. Plus if it hit a rock they didn’t create sparks or bust a typical blade. 


Lee Stoermer
Aldie, VA

On Sunday, May 3, 2020, 13:10, Charles Peck <lnnrr152@...> wrote:

Snow chains were invented by Harry Weed in 1904.
Chuck Peck

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 12:46 PM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: LV Boxcar 62182 With Weed Chains Load

A 1915 photo from the Utah State Historical Society:

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/ark:/87278/s6891hs0

From the text on the banner I guess those folks in Utah had been using their electric weed-whackers before this car arrived, assuming that earlier they had received a carload of extension cords.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: Tank Car Placard Locations

Donald B. Valentine
 

    The reporting marks are clearly present but the placards are another issue. Clearly some have been present 
as the marks from the removal or two above the running board clearly show as does one below the running board.
But tank cars are not my forte so here we go with more questions. When did placard holders first come into general 
use and when were standard locations for placard holders required? This car looks older than any requirements
other than the simple use of warning placards as to the cargo.

    I do have Ed Kaminski's  tank car book bit having arrived yesterday a 100 AM it's going to be awhile before it is 
thoroughly read.

Cordially, Don Valentine