Date   

Re: Photo: National Car Co. Reefer NX 2550

lrkdbn
 

Here is a question that is total speculation- were any of these 36 ft NX reefers rebuilt out of ex PRR
class RF cars?
Larry King


Re: B&O ds trussrod boxcar (72448 maybe?) at Pittsburg and Fairmont Fuel Company WV in 1907

Eric Hansmann
 

I checked some ORER editions for B&O 72948. Here’s what I found.

 

1904 & 1905 ORERs – in a number series for gondolas
1907 ORER – in a boxcar number series
   - 2051 cu ft and 30 tons capy
    - 34-ft, 6-in inside length, 7-ft, 5-in inside height
    - 289 cars listed for the 72702–73031 number series

I do not know the class designation for this B&O boxcar.

B&O renumbered their freight car fleet about 1905. This is why the car number falls into a gondola series in the earlier ORER editions.

 

Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2021 12:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] B&O ds trussrod boxcar (72448 maybe?) at Pittsburg and Fairmont Fuel Company WV in 1907

 

Thanks Bob, I'm sure you are better at this than I am! As a matter of fact, I'm sure everyone is better at this than I am!

 

Claus Schlund

 

----- Original Message -----

To: main

Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2021 12:42 PM

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] B&O ds trussrod boxcar (72448 maybe?) at Pittsburg and Fairmont Fuel Company WV in 1907

 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)" <claus@...>

> B&O ds trussrod boxcar (72448 maybe?) at Pittsburg and Fairmont Fuel Company WV in 1907

> https://wvhistoryonview.org/catalog/039674
 
72948 Look at the 4 digits visible on the end.

--
Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob





Re: Photo: SHPX Tank Car 20504 & Friends

Tony Thompson
 

Ray Hutchison wrote:

The third tank car has platform on top... I've most often associated this with (later) chemical cars?_

Many people would say the same, Ray, a legacy from our friends at Athearn, who called their version of a pressure car a “chemical” car. But in fact the platform has NOTHING to do with whatever contents are on board. The buyer of the tank car decided if they wanted a platform on their cars, regardless of use. There were, of course, a great many cars without platforms, including pressure cars, and all kinds of ordinary as well as pressure cars that DID have platforms. In short, a platform by itself tells you nothing about the use of the car. 

Tony Thompson




Re: Help identifying a tank car with Westvaco markings

Dave Parker
 

I'm with Steve.  It's most likely a smaller car; 6000 gallons is a reasonable guess.

Those 11,000-gal ICC 105 cars were used for "light" commodities like anhydrous ammonia and propane.  Liquid chlorine is 50% denser than water, which is why it was carried in small cars.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Photo: SHPX Tank Car 20504 & Friends

Dennis Storzek
 

On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 10:14 AM, Dave Nelson wrote:

Sure I have… I’m referring to the apparent seam running up from his crotch.  Very odd.

 

I think we're having a failure to communicate...
Try this.

Dennis

 


Re: B&O ds trussrod boxcar (72448 maybe?) at Pittsburg and Fairmont Fuel Company WV in 1907

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Thanks Bob, I'm sure you are better at this than I am! As a matter of fact, I'm sure everyone is better at this than I am!
 
Claus Schlund
 

----- Original Message -----
To: main
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2021 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] B&O ds trussrod boxcar (72448 maybe?) at Pittsburg and Fairmont Fuel Company WV in 1907

----- Original Message -----
From: "Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)" <claus@...>

> B&O ds trussrod boxcar (72448 maybe?) at Pittsburg and Fairmont Fuel Company WV in 1907

> https://wvhistoryonview.org/catalog/039674
 
72948 Look at the 4 digits visible on the end.

--
Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob






Re: Hopper and gons, Monongah No 8 Mine, Fairmont Coal Company, WV 1907

Todd Sullivan
 

Claus,

That's a great write-up on how a mine and coke ovens operated in the early to mid 20th century.  I have friends who have models of such arrangements on their layouts, and there were similar facilities on the C&O in the New River Gorge (at Sewell, I think) and off the NYC on the Kanawha River outside Smithers WVa at Cannelton.  Searching on those locations might turn up additional information and photos.

Todd Sullivan


Re: Photo: SHPX Tank Car 20504 & Friends

Dave Nelson
 

Sure I have… I’m referring to the apparent seam running up from his crotch.  Very odd.

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2021 5:48 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: SHPX Tank Car 20504 & Friends

 

You've never seen a man wearing coveralls before?

Dennis Storzek


Re: Help identifying a tank car with Westvaco markings

 

Thanks, everyone! I appreciate the insight. I am hoping a decent image of this livery surfaces so I can attempt to draw the artwork for some decals. I now have a starting point at least. Now, to find those elusive unlettered BLI cars... https://www.broadway-limited.com/61286000gallontankcarunletteredpaintedlightgray4-packho-1.aspx

Again, thanks!
--
Ben Sullivan
Brookeville, MD


Re: B&O ds trussrod boxcar (72448 maybe?) at Pittsburg and Fairmont Fuel Company WV in 1907

robert netzlof
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)" <claus@hellgatemodels.com>

B&O ds trussrod boxcar (72448 maybe?) at Pittsburg and Fairmont Fuel Company WV in 1907
https://wvhistoryonview.org/catalog/039674
72948 Look at the 4 digits visible on the end.

--
Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob


Photo: National Car Co. Reefer NX 2550

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: National Car Co. Reefer NX 2550

Photo from the Protocraft Decals website:

https://www.protocraft.com/images/859.jpg

Brine tanks and meat rails.

Notes from the website:

The National Car Company was established in 1930 as a leasing subsidiary of the FGE.

By 1940, NX had more than 1,600 reefers on its roster with many other reporting marks for their leased cars such as Oscar Mayer (OMX), Kingan & CO. (KRLX), E. Kahn (EKSX), Superior Packing (SPCX) and others.

National operated into the 1960s. Cars with the NX reporting marks were leased to the other companies and railroads with signs on the side directing it’s return to the lessee.

Bob Chaparro

Moderator

Railway Bull Shippers Group

https://groups.io/g/RailwayBullShippersGroup


LN hoppers 66557 and 181812 at Jackhorn Mine KY (undated)

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
LN hoppers 66557 and 181812 at Jackhorn Mine KY (undated). Note the lever style brake on 181812.
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


Re: Hopper and gons, Monongah No 8 Mine, Fairmont Coal Company, WV 1907

CJ Riley
 


I must dispute the comment about these not being beehive ovens. They are identical to the freestanding beehive ovens, just buried for heat retention and operational reasons. They were still called beehives. I have seen photos of families living in abandoned ovens and the domed shape is clear. I have a book called, “ The Beehive Coke Ovens of Western Penna.”



Re: Photo: Wrecked Freight Cars (Undated)

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Thanks, again, Dennis.  Now I see that the 1776 car extends past the more-or-less intact car to the left of those men.  Because the corner of that car coincides with the corner of the torn-apart roof, it appeared to me that was a separate box from the rest of the car.

 

I also noted this time with some amusement how many of the extended vertical shaft brake wheels have suffered what so many HO scale models do, shafts bent at the roofline . . .  😊 most extreme example right below the number 1776.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2021 1:55 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Wrecked Freight Cars (Undated)

 

On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 09:45 AM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:

But I was curious about the evidently dismembered car number 1776 in the upper left of the photo.  Cleanly chopped off, it appears, and where is the rest of that car?

 

Schuyler


Behind the car in front of it. The body isn't completely broken, only the roof, and the men are standing on the load in the car.

Dennis Storzek

 


Re: Hopper and gons, Monongah No 8 Mine, Fairmont Coal Company, WV 1907

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Ray and List Members,
 
Ray had some questions on this scene. To keep the context  intact, I'll first repeat some of what I  had written earlier, and then tackle Ray's questions as well as I can
 
  Along with the freight cars, we get a spectacular view of a coke oven bank,
  what is probably the mine tipple and sorting structures in the left background,
  smokestacks for the mine power plant in the center, and ancillary mine buildings
  on the left. Note the derelict mine cars at the bottom lst of the image
 
 
Ray asked: "would anyone happen to have a diagram of this (or similar) operation?"
 
Not right off-hand, no.
 
Ray also asked: "If the loading of the coke is from structure in the back, how was finished coke transported to the loading bin?"
 
Your assumptions around how this works are incorrect. Here is a rough overview...
 
Coal comes up from the underground mine at the minehead (obscured by the smoke in this image, but probably located behind the mine powerplant smokestacks). Most mines then simply sort, clean and ship this coal, but that appears to NOT be the case here. Instead the coal is deposited into the "structure in the back" - a loading bin. Some or all of this coal is then dropped from the bin into waiting larry cars - small hopper cars that deliver coal to the individual coke ovens. While no larry cars are visible, you can discern the tracks they run on, just behind the smoke plumes on top of the right-most set of coke ovens. The oven's are charged with coal from on top, the coal dropping directly from the larry cars into the oven thru a charging hole. Finished coke is drawn out of the individual coke ovens thru the arch-topped openings in the front. The coke is then loaded doused with water to quench it and is then loaded via wheelbarrow into the waiting (steel) hoppers. I think I can discern a wheelbarrow and worker above the second hopper. Note even in a b&w photo, you can tell it is coke due to the light color.
 
The (composite) gons on the left appear to be loaded with coal - note the much darker color. Probably the loading bin structure is designed to allow coal to be loaded into either the larry cars (to charge the coke ovens) and also to allow excess coal to be loaded into the gons. I think I can discern a chute on the loading bin that could be dropped and would be able to reach the middle track of the three tracks visible - this is where empty gons would have been positioned for coal loading
 
Hope that helps
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
 
 
 
 appears the full output of the mine then
 
 
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2021 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Hopper and gons, Monongah No 8 Mine, Fairmont Coal Company, WV 1907

would anyone happen to have a diagram of this (or similar) operation?  If the loading of the coke is from structure in the back, how was finished coke transported to the loading bin?  


Re: Hopper and gons, Monongah No 8 Mine, Fairmont Coal Company, WV 1907

Dennis Storzek
 

On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 06:24 AM, Ray Hutchison wrote:
 If the loading of the coke is from structure in the back, how was finished coke transported to the loading bin?  
Ray, that's backwards. The bin in the background is the source of the coal. It is distributed via manual push cars on a narrow gauge track on top of the battery of ovens; you can just barely see the end of this track at the right edge of the photo, just above the derelict push cars.

The coal is loaded into each oven through the vent at the top. When coking is finished, the lower opening is unsealed and the coke raked out on the platform. It is then loaded into the waiting rail cars, by hand.

Each individual oven in the battery is a separate unit, so some are burning (black smoke), some are being quenched (white steam) some are being raked out and refilled. It looks like that's what is happening at the nineth oven from the near end.

I think this mine only coked a portion of their output; the tipple has an extended chute that can load rail cars one track out from the track that serves the ovens.

By the way, these aren't "beehive" ovens, which are round and free standing.

Dennis Storzek


Re: W&LE wood coal gon at Beechwood Mine, Fairmont Coal Company, Monongalia County, WV 1907

 

On this subject of mines, the production numbers of mines from the time period in question (circa 1910) are available online thanks to scans of the WV Geological Survey books. This mine in question (Consolidated #30 at Beechwood, WV) had a daily rated capacity of 350 tons (using long tons, where 2240lb = 1 long ton), but was only producing 155 tons per day on average in 1910/1911. 

So the "750 tons" number does appear to refer to the capacity of the haulage system and not the mine's production.

Link to source: https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/001522988

Overview page (pg 713 of scan) of Mon County: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015035520637&view=1up&seq=713

Description of Mine (pg 755 of scan): https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015035520637&view=1up&seq=755

Copies of these surveys are generally available for every county in West Virginia, and contain a wealth of information regarding mine and coke oven production of the time. There are also photographs and numerous maps scattered throughout, some of which include detail and overview shots of tipples and various freight cars. 

--
Andy Cummings
Houston, TX


ventilated boxcar ready for loading at Fairmont Coal Company WV in 1907...

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
What appears to be a ventilated boxcar ready for loading at Fairmont Coal Company WV in 1907...
 
 
Note the ragged condition of the track at the lower left - I'd think twice before taking a locomotive down that track!
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


Re: C&O twin hopper 21105 in WV (1914)

Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi Dan,
 
Interesting stuff.
 
Thanks,
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 

From: Daniel A. Mitchell
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2021 10:58 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&O twin hopper 21105 in WV (1914)
 
Yes, they are early horse-drawn scrapers, usually pulled by two horses, The operator walks behind holding the long handle that controls the scraper-bowl’s angle. Raise the handle and the bowl digs into the earth, push the handle down and the bowl lifts for transport of the excavated earth. To dump the bowl just release the handle, the bowl will drop, snag on the ground, and (nearly) overturn, dumping the load.
 
There were many variations of such scrapers ... the ones shown are about the simplest. On more sophisticated examples (without the long handle) the entire bowl would rotate 360º while dumping and return to the ‘rest’ position …these are called “Tumblebugs” from their action.
 
Eventually they evolved into 4-wheeled devices with the bowl angle and dumping-action powered by the rotation of the wheels, via chain-drives. By then they had all the basic motions of a modern wheeled scraper.
 
Today the small ones are still around, like the Tumblebugs, but pulled by small tractors. Such are hardly ever seen at construction sites, but are popular with farmers for grading and digging small ponds.
 
Many such machines can be seen at HCEA (Historic Construction Equipment Assn.) meets. Explore their website for photos.
 
Dan Mitchell
==========

On Jun 23, 2021, at 8:45 AM, Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...> wrote:
 
On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 07:20 PM, Claus Schlund \(HGM\) wrote:
 
 
I'm left wondering - what are the wheeled conveyances in front of the string of hoppers? There appear to be two of them...
They are horse drawn scapers... excavating machines.

Dennis Storzek
 


B&O ds trussrod boxcar (72448 maybe?) at Pittsburg and Fairmont Fuel Company WV in 1907

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
B&O ds trussrod boxcar (72448 maybe?) at Pittsburg and Fairmont Fuel Company WV in 1907
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 

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