Date   

Re: Photo: Texaco Tank Car TCX 723 (1936)

Dave Parker
 

6000-gal car, 173-gal dome, GA-built. 

There's a 1926 TROX 3-compartment car in Kaminski's tank car book with elbow valve, but no other examples from the 1920s spring to mind.  No other Class III TCX cars with the elbow in my folder either.  Curious.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Photo: Texaco Tank Car TCX 723 (1936)

David
 

1923 is fairly late for a safety valve elbow, but the dome is rather skinny.

David Thompson


Re: Plow Bolts [was: Installing A New Deck On A Flat Car]

Dennis Storzek
 

On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 02:27 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:
. . . the regular flat head one as used for flatcar decking, and possibly other freight car uses . . .
For HO modeling purposes, it reduces to a round dot, as David said.  But at least now I know the reason that this is true.

   Yet model flat cars continue to have raised bolt heads on decks .

I donno, Tony. I've never tooled a flatcar deck, but Accurail's wood running boards model them as smooth round flat spots, about .002" deep, so they'll catch any weathering wash. When these flat head bolts are tightened they are supposed to pull slightly below the surface so the don't catch things or present a tripping hazard, so the flat depressions model the way they actually look.

Dennis Storzek 
 


Re: Plow Bolts [was: Installing A New Deck On A Flat Car]

Tony Thompson
 

Ron Merrick wrote:

. . . the regular flat head one as used for flatcar decking, and possibly other freight car uses . . .
For HO modeling purposes, it reduces to a round dot, as David said.  But at least now I know the reason that this is true.

   Yet model flat cars continue to have raised bolt heads on decks . . .

Tony Thompson




Re: 50' Mather stock cars

Ray Breyer
 

Thanks for taking the time to dig up this information, Richard. It helps!

 This is the sort of useful, primary source information I was looking for, and does firm up at least a design date of 1952 for these cars. I still haven't found pre-1960 information for the cars actually being converted, so I'll note both data points in my material.

(and yes, I know to take 70 year old recollections with a small grain of salt, but I also know to NOT discount this sort of crucial personal information!)

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL




On Tuesday, January 5, 2021, 03:33:23 PM CST, Richard Townsend via groups.io <richtownsend@...> wrote:


I agree that primary sources would be best, but the ideal primary material - the Mather records - likely do not exist. A wonderful alternative would be an article from Railway Age or similar periodicals showcasing, or at least reporting, the 50-foot rebuilds. ORER records are less desirable, but they are somewhat helpful. 

Lacking the ability to search relevant periodicals, I asked Hol Wagner, the author of the Burlington Bulletin, whether he recalled the source he relied on. Here is what he told me: " The information came to me from longtime BRHS member Bob Landregan who was chief engineer of North American Car Co. when he had the plans drawn up for the construction of these cars, and they bear a 1952 date.  He wasn't sure that the work was actually undertaken that year, so I said "in about 1952" in the BB. "

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Breyer via groups.io <rtbsvrr69@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Jan 5, 2021 6:21 am
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] 50' Mather stock cars

I'm looking for primary source material, not "hobby wisdom". It appears that "the Fifties" as a date came from the Burlington article. Where did that piece get its information from?

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL




On Monday, January 4, 2021, 07:23:11 PM CST, Mat Thompson <ocrr@...> wrote:


There is a question of where did the 1952 date come from for conversion of Mather cars to 50 feet.
 
The January 1998 Model Railroader article by Jim Teese says conversions began in 1952. He also said his source information came from the Burlington Route Historical Society Bulletin no. 25 (April 1992) which is still listed on their website but I have not seen it.
 
Jeff Wilson, in his Kalmbach book Livestock & Meatpacking, says Mather “In the late 50s, rebuilt some of it 40-foot cars into 50-footers” (page 19). The same Burlington Route Bulletin is listed in the book’s Bibliography but I don’t know if that is the source of the late 50s comment.
 
Mat Thompson
 
 
 


Re: 50' Mather stock cars

Richard Townsend
 

I agree that primary sources would be best, but the ideal primary material - the Mather records - likely do not exist. A wonderful alternative would be an article from Railway Age or similar periodicals showcasing, or at least reporting, the 50-foot rebuilds. ORER records are less desirable, but they are somewhat helpful. 

Lacking the ability to search relevant periodicals, I asked Hol Wagner, the author of the Burlington Bulletin, whether he recalled the source he relied on. Here is what he told me: " The information came to me from longtime BRHS member Bob Landregan who was chief engineer of North American Car Co. when he had the plans drawn up for the construction of these cars, and they bear a 1952 date.  He wasn't sure that the work was actually undertaken that year, so I said "in about 1952" in the BB. "

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Breyer via groups.io <rtbsvrr69@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Jan 5, 2021 6:21 am
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] 50' Mather stock cars

I'm looking for primary source material, not "hobby wisdom". It appears that "the Fifties" as a date came from the Burlington article. Where did that piece get its information from?

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL




On Monday, January 4, 2021, 07:23:11 PM CST, Mat Thompson <ocrr@...> wrote:


There is a question of where did the 1952 date come from for conversion of Mather cars to 50 feet.
 
The January 1998 Model Railroader article by Jim Teese says conversions began in 1952. He also said his source information came from the Burlington Route Historical Society Bulletin no. 25 (April 1992) which is still listed on their website but I have not seen it.
 
Jeff Wilson, in his Kalmbach book Livestock & Meatpacking, says Mather “In the late 50s, rebuilt some of it 40-foot cars into 50-footers” (page 19). The same Burlington Route Bulletin is listed in the book’s Bibliography but I don’t know if that is the source of the late 50s comment.
 
Mat Thompson
 
 
 


Re: Photo: Installing A New Deck On A Flat Car (Undated)

mopacfirst
 

You learn something every day from sites like this.  I'd never heard of a plow bolt before.

I looked these up and it turns out there is an American standard for them, ASME B18.9.  That means something to me, since I made my living from standards.  Of course, there are even more special versions made specially for heavy duty plows (think Caterpillar), but the regular flat head one as used for flatcar decking, and possibly other freight car uses, is shown here --

https://www.aftfasteners.com/plow-bolts-dimensions-technical-information/

For HO modeling purposes, it reduces to a round dot, as David said.  But at least now I know the reason that this is true.

Ron Merrick


Re: H.C. Frick Hoppers

Eric Hansmann
 

Bowser produced a GLa decorated for Frick. It’s about halfway down this page on the left.

https://www.bowser-trains.com/history/glahistory.html

 

it does not seem like they have produced the H21 with Frick lettering.

https://www.bowser-trains.com/history/h21history.html

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2021 1:15 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] H.C. Frick Hoppers

 

Hi Larry and List Members,

 

Larry asked: "Bowser produced an H.C. Frick GLC hopper car.  Did Frick indeed have hoppers and if so what happened to them"

 

Let's take this one step at a time...

 

(1) "Bowser produced an H.C. Frick GLC hopper car" - Larry, are you sure they produced a GLC? I thought they produced a GLa, in both HO and N scales... but I am an N scaler myself and so I don't thoroughly know their HO offerings.

 

(2) "Did Frick indeed have hoppers" - the answer is yes, they did. See attached image of a Frick hopper - the car in the image is a PRR class H21a clone. See also Feb 2002 RMJ paper page 23 for an image of PRR GLa design car HCF 4001, available at the link below...

 

 

(3) "what happened to them" - in the above RMJ article, Richard Burg writes: "...sold off the GLa fleet, probably to the PRR"

 

Hope this helps.

 

Claus Schlund

 


Re: 1932 ARA MP cars and atlas

Brian Rochon
 

The attached table was compiled by Ted Culotta and Ed Hawkins in 2017.  Includes many details of the prototypes.

 

Brian Rochon

Silver Spring, MD

 

 

On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 1:44 PM Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:

Brian Carlson asked:
"Does anyone know what body style of the atlas 1932 ARA car I need for Missouri Pacific prototype? There used to be a description of the body styles on the atlas website but I can’t find it."

Fenton Wells added: 
"...if you find it please publish it as I would like to know as well."


Re: 1932 ARA MP cars and atlas

akerboomk
 

To find “old” Atlas stuff (in general)

From main page ( https://shop.atlasrr.com/ ):

-       Production -> Archive

-       Drop down scale (HO/N/O) -> pick type (“Trainman” vs. “Masters”, or as appropriate)

-       Scroll thru list to find car you are interested in, click on that link

 


--
Ken Akerboom


Re: H.C. Frick Hoppers

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Larry and List Members,
 
Larry asked: "Bowser produced an H.C. Frick GLC hopper car.  Did Frick indeed have hoppers and if so what happened to them"
 
Let's take this one step at a time...
 
(1) "Bowser produced an H.C. Frick GLC hopper car" - Larry, are you sure they produced a GLC? I thought they produced a GLa, in both HO and N scales... but I am an N scaler myself and so I don't thoroughly know their HO offerings.
 
(2) "Did Frick indeed have hoppers" - the answer is yes, they did. See attached image of a Frick hopper - the car in the image is a PRR class H21a clone. See also Feb 2002 RMJ paper page 23 for an image of PRR GLa design car HCF 4001, available at the link below...
 
 
(3) "what happened to them" - in the above RMJ article, Richard Burg writes: "...sold off the GLa fleet, probably to the PRR"
 
Hope this helps.
 
Claus Schlund
 


Photo: Installing A New Deck On A Flat Car (Undated)

Malcolm H. Houck
 

Those bolts used on flat car decks, with a square shank below the head (similar to a carriage bolt), but with a flat and countersunk head are actually called "Plow Bolts." Installed, there is no (rounded) head protruding above, and used (obviously) on historic farmers' plow with wooden structures.The flush heads would not interfere with other fittings or tackle on the plow. 

Specialty hardware suppliers still inventory Plow Bolts.
 
Mal Houck


Re: 1932 ARA MP cars and atlas

Bill Keene
 

Don’t fret!

My memory is shorter than the consist of a mixed train serving a soon to be abandoned dirt-ballasted branch line. 

Cheers,
— Bill


On Jan 5, 2021, at 10:55 AM, O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:

I know the shock on everyone's face but I actually went back and check my files and found this.  Hope it helps

On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 1:47 PM O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:
Great Thanks Ben

On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 1:44 PM Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:
Brian Carlson asked:
"Does anyone know what body style of the atlas 1932 ARA car I need for Missouri Pacific prototype? There used to be a description of the body styles on the atlas website but I can’t find it."

Fenton Wells added: 
"...if you find it please publish it as I would like to know as well."

Releases are listed in reverse chronological order here:
http://archive.atlasrr.com/HOFreight/arc-ho1932boxcar.htm
Variation descriptions are in the December 2015, August 2013, and October 2011 releases.


Ben Hom




--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...
<Bill Welch Atlas 1932 boxcars.docx>


Re: 1932 ARA MP cars and atlas

O Fenton Wells
 

I know the shock on everyone's face but I actually went back and check my files and found this.  Hope it helps


On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 1:47 PM O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:
Great Thanks Ben

On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 1:44 PM Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:
Brian Carlson asked:
"Does anyone know what body style of the atlas 1932 ARA car I need for Missouri Pacific prototype? There used to be a description of the body styles on the atlas website but I can’t find it."

Fenton Wells added: 
"...if you find it please publish it as I would like to know as well."

Releases are listed in reverse chronological order here:
http://archive.atlasrr.com/HOFreight/arc-ho1932boxcar.htm
Variation descriptions are in the December 2015, August 2013, and October 2011 releases.


Ben Hom



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: 1932 ARA MP cars and atlas

Bill Keene
 

Thanks Ben. 

Bill Keene
Irvine, CA

On Jan 5, 2021, at 10:44 AM, Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:

Brian Carlson asked:
"Does anyone know what body style of the atlas 1932 ARA car I need for Missouri Pacific prototype? There used to be a description of the body styles on the atlas website but I can’t find it."

Fenton Wells added: 
"...if you find it please publish it as I would like to know as well."

Releases are listed in reverse chronological order here:
http://archive.atlasrr.com/HOFreight/arc-ho1932boxcar.htm
Variation descriptions are in the December 2015, August 2013, and October 2011 releases.


Ben Hom


Re: 1932 ARA MP cars and atlas

O Fenton Wells
 

Great Thanks Ben


On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 1:44 PM Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:
Brian Carlson asked:
"Does anyone know what body style of the atlas 1932 ARA car I need for Missouri Pacific prototype? There used to be a description of the body styles on the atlas website but I can’t find it."

Fenton Wells added: 
"...if you find it please publish it as I would like to know as well."

Releases are listed in reverse chronological order here:
http://archive.atlasrr.com/HOFreight/arc-ho1932boxcar.htm
Variation descriptions are in the December 2015, August 2013, and October 2011 releases.


Ben Hom



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Photo: Texaco Tank Car TCX 723 (1936)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Texaco Tank Car TCX 723 (1936)

A photo from the Denver Public Library:

https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/67558/rec/79

Click on the double-headed arrow and then scroll to enlarge the image.

Built 1923.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: 1932 ARA MP cars and atlas

Benjamin Hom
 

Brian Carlson asked:
"Does anyone know what body style of the atlas 1932 ARA car I need for Missouri Pacific prototype? There used to be a description of the body styles on the atlas website but I can’t find it."

Fenton Wells added: 
"...if you find it please publish it as I would like to know as well."

Releases are listed in reverse chronological order here:
http://archive.atlasrr.com/HOFreight/arc-ho1932boxcar.htm
Variation descriptions are in the December 2015, August 2013, and October 2011 releases.


Ben Hom


Re: 1932 ARA MP cars and atlas

Brian Carlson
 

Ugh. Thanks Dave. Don’t always think to check the web interface for the Group when I am on the phone. 
MP body style 1. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Jan 5, 2021, at 1:28 PM, Dave Parker via groups.io <spottab@...> wrote:

Wasn't this question answered just last April in msg 172473?

It took maybe 8 seconds to find by searching Messages for "Atlas 1932".
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: 1932 ARA MP cars and atlas

Bill Keene
 

Thanks Dave.

It took me a bit longer than your eight seconds. Yes. I confess that I am perhaps the world’s second worst “researcher” on the www. 

Cheers & Happy Modeling,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA



On Jan 5, 2021, at 10:28 AM, Dave Parker via groups.io <spottab@...> wrote:

Wasn't this question answered just last April in msg 172473?

It took maybe 8 seconds to find by searching Messages for "Atlas 1932".
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA

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