Date   

Re: Photos, copyright etc.

Dave Nelson
 

Two more comments: There is a yahoogroup thatr Mike setup for discussing copyright issues… IIRC it is called Licen@....  Second comment is there is a whole lot of copyfraud going on… people asserting the have a copyright on something when they do not.  One example that comes to mind is a xeroxed booklet reproducing some freight car folio drawings.   Maybe the original is in the public domain, maybe not, but making a Xerox of something you didn’t author doesn’t grant you copyright on anything.

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 9:39 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Photos, copyright etc.

 



Mike,

 

Please post at what point an image is out of copyright and available for general use? You post we must own the copyright and there are those outside of copyright that have no such ownership. We need to be certain of those for posting.

 

Thank you,

 

Best to ya,

Mike Bauers

Milwaukee, Wi

 


Re: Photos, copyright etc.

Tony Thompson
 

Claus Schlund wrote:

 

I am sending this on-list, and I hope it is OK to do that. I have a question regarding your post, and am seeking clarification. You
wrote "copyright must either be held by the displayer or copyright must be expired"
For purposes of posting to this list - at what point is copyright expired? How does one determine this, so one can know if it is OK
(or not) to post an image to the list?


      The broad answer is that anything copyrighted later than 1922 MAY still be in copyright if copyrights were renewed. Anything created later than 1978 IS copyrighted, automatically under the law. But photos are a special problem, if taken before 1978, because they were not then automatically copyrighted by the creator as they are today, and very few photographers bothered to register copyright for photos prior to 1978. If they were not copyrighted earlier, and you purchased the negative or original slide, AND you are sure no one else holds written transfer of copyright, it's yours, and in fact if the legitimate owner, YOU can copyright it now. That's why owning a print or slide copy conveys exactly NOTHING to you in the way of copyright, because there is an original somewhere. There ARE photos in the public domain, but you need to be sure. That's the case for many but NOT all railroad PR photos, for example. You have to check.
       The short answer, which Claus probably wants and Mike too, is that you need to be either (a) the original photographer, or (b) be able to offer PROOF you have rights to reproduce and/or publish an image, or (c) be able to prove public domain, before you can safely post on line. These are similar to the points made by Tom Madden in his post.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Photos, copyright etc.

Dave Nelson
 

AFAIK the most conservative answer is 70 years before the current date for anything created by an individual for himself and 90 for works for hire and/or corporate creations.  If you assume books are works for hire you get June, 1925.  If you assume photos are personal works you get June 1945.  General speaking the owner of a print does not hold the copyright… the guy with the negative does (it’s just like owning a book… you own the printed paper but the author owns the story).

 

I have read conflicting answers WRT works that were copyrighted but had not requested an extension.

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 9:39 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Photos, copyright etc.

 



Mike,

 

Please post at what point an image is out of copyright and available for general use? You post we must own the copyright and there are those outside of copyright that have no such ownership. We need to be certain of those for posting.

 

Thank you,

 

Best to ya,

Mike Bauers

Milwaukee, Wi


Re: Photos, copyright etc.

Mikebrock
 

Mike Bauers writes:

"Please post at what point an image is out of copyright and available for general use?"

First, I suggest you read my message of 12:04 PM where I say that I don't have time right now to study and comment more on the copyright laws. You may, however, study them yourself.

"You post we must own the copyright and there are those outside of copyright that have no such ownership. We need to be certain of those for posting."

There is one really certain way of knowing that you own copyright. Take the photo yourself. And, for sure, do NOT under any circumstances send me any money.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: Photos, copyright etc.

Tom Madden
 

Mike Bauers pleaded:
> Please post at what point an image is out of copyright and
> available for general use? You post we must own the copyright
> and there are those outside of copyright that have no such
> ownership. We need to be certain of those for posting.
 

If Mike Brock will permit, here's what I do on the Passenger Car List. (The PCL and STMFC lists are, if not conjoined twins, at least closely related. There is a huge membership overlap, and Mike is one of my PCL moderators.)

The issue is, photos posted to a group's Photos area can be downloaded and shared. Yahoo has made it very clear that there will be no Napster-like unauthorized sharing of copyrighted material going on in Yahoo Groups. This applies to both the Photos and Files areas, but is much more of a potential problem with photos.

It is up to the person submitting the photo to determine whether he has the right to post that photo. If you submit a photo to the PCL and it isn't obvious (to me) that it's one you took, I will email you and ask if the photo is:
A. one you took or
B. in the public domain or
C. you have documentable permission from the person holding the copyright to post the photo.

If you respond that you do have the right, I will approve the photo, no questions asked. I will also save your email asserting your right to post the photo. If the vaunted and feared Copyright Police were to come calling, they will be given a copy of your email.

Again, it is not up to the list owner or moderators to decide whether you have the right to post a particular photo - you have to do your own due diligence.

Tom Madden



Re: Photos, copyright etc.

mwbauers
 

Mike,

Please post at what point an image is out of copyright and available for general use? You post we must own the copyright and there are those outside of copyright that have no such ownership. We need to be certain of those for posting.
 
Thank you,

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Jun 9, 2015, at 10:11 AM, 'Mike Brock' brockm@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 
Guys,
A quick note about photos on the STMFC. Due to copyright laws...yes, we
still have them...copyright must either be held by the displayer or
copyright must be expired to be displayed on the STMFC. This is mandated
both by the federal gvt and Yahoo. So, before you send a photo to the Yahoo
Group photo area, be sure you own copyright of the photo. STMFC management
must approve all photos placed in the photo section in order to ensure
compliance with copyright laws. It is, obviously, not easy to do that. I
would also note that one upload of a photo to the STMFC photo area is all
that is required. Multiple uploads do NOT enhance approval of a photo.

I would also add that the STMFC is NOT the forum to discuss copyright laws.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner 


Re: Photos, copyright etc.

Spen Kellogg <spninetynine@...>
 

On 6/9/2015 10:24 AM, Charles Peck lnnrr152@... [STMFC] wrote:
 
FYI, it has been rumored that our esteemed sheriff likes to play Monopoly. Do NOT cross him by buying a railroad.

Shucks. I was going to buy the UP and rename it SP.

Spen Kellogg


Re: Photos, copyright etc.

Charles Peck
 

FYI, it has been rumored that our esteemed sheriff likes to play Monopoly. Do NOT cross him by buying a railroad.
Chuck Peck

On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 12:03 PM, 'Mike Brock' brockm@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

​ 


Last, under no circumstances is anyone allowed to send me $1000 which I am
allowed to use as I wish. Such an action will get you jail time so don't
send me the $1000...or any other sum for that matter. Oh, I accept personal
checks.

Mike Brock



Re: Photos, copyright etc.

Mikebrock
 

Claus Schlund writes:

"For purposes of posting to this list - at what point is copyright expired? How does one determine this, so one can know if it is OK
(or not) to post an image to the list?"

First, it is always OK to submit a photo for inclusion in the STMFC photo area. It is certainly best to own copyright of the photo.

Second, unfortunately, the copyright laws are complex. I don't have time now to explain how they impact the STMFC. Copyright laws were impacted significantly on Jan 1, 1978. My suggestion is to do your own research into copyright law by simply going to the below site.

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ15a.pdf

I would also note that one of our members, Tony Thompson, is very knowledgeable about copyright laws and if Tony wishes to comment on the laws and the STMFC, I welcome
it.

I would add that circumventing the requirement that STMFC management approve all photos by using a different photo system is not a good idea and, in fact, will not be permitted. This is a yahoo requirement.

Last, under no circumstances is anyone allowed to send me $1000 which I am allowed to use as I wish. Such an action will get you jail time so don't send me the $1000...or any other sum for that matter. Oh, I accept personal checks.

Mike Brock


Re: Photos, copyright etc.

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Mike,

I am sending this on-list, and I hope it is OK to do that. I have a question regarding your post, and am seeking clarification. You wrote "copyright must either be held by the displayer or copyright must be expired"

For purposes of posting to this list - at what point is copyright expired? How does one determine this, so one can know if it is OK (or not) to post an image to the list?

- Claus Schlund

----- Original Message -----
From: "'Mike Brock' brockm@cfl.rr.com [STMFC]" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 8:11 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Photos, copyright etc.


Guys,
A quick note about photos on the STMFC. Due to copyright laws...yes, we
still have them...copyright must either be held by the displayer or
copyright must be expired to be displayed on the STMFC. This is mandated
both by the federal gvt and Yahoo. So, before you send a photo to the Yahoo
Group photo area, be sure you own copyright of the photo. STMFC management
must approve all photos placed in the photo section in order to ensure
compliance with copyright laws. It is, obviously, not easy to do that. I
would also note that one upload of a photo to the STMFC photo area is all
that is required. Multiple uploads do NOT enhance approval of a photo.

I would also add that the STMFC is NOT the forum to discuss copyright laws.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner




------------------------------------
Posted by: "Mike Brock" <brockm@cfl.rr.com>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links




Photos, copyright etc.

Mikebrock
 

Guys,
A quick note about photos on the STMFC. Due to copyright laws...yes, we still have them...copyright must either be held by the displayer or copyright must be expired to be displayed on the STMFC. This is mandated both by the federal gvt and Yahoo. So, before you send a photo to the Yahoo Group photo area, be sure you own copyright of the photo. STMFC management must approve all photos placed in the photo section in order to ensure compliance with copyright laws. It is, obviously, not easy to do that. I would also note that one upload of a photo to the STMFC photo area is all that is required. Multiple uploads do NOT enhance approval of a photo.

I would also add that the STMFC is NOT the forum to discuss copyright laws.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: Hoppers from early 20th century

Steve Caple <stevecaple@...>
 

OK, I thought it might be moderation delay - just didn't see it explained. Given the flood of porn and worse, no wonder they have to do that.


Re: RESURECTED CAR

 

Very nice! – Al Westerfield

From: mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2015 3:51 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] RESURECTED CAR




As I am not a child of the space age and posting photos to folders is not an item that I have mastered I submit the enclosed
photo th hsow that some modeling is done in Paradise. Since some have recently attached photos I thought that I would
take a cahnce with this.

This is a Quality Craft Kit that I originally did in the 70's. AS I did not have access to much prototype information back then I pretty much followed the kit instructions. It remained one of my favorite cars but suffered some damage over the years.
I recently obtained some good photos and some decals from a list member. The rebuilding went on and on but is finally
completed.

Hope you enjoy:

Bill Pardie





DSCN2245






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [EXTERNAL] PRR G25 gondolas (UNCLASSIFIED)

Mark Stamm
 

Gene,

The link to the equipment diagrams is half way down the page. 

Mark

Mark P Stamm
Mark at Euphoriatt dot Com

Sent from my mobile device

On Jun 8, 2015, at 11:58 PM, genegreen1942@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Thanks to Elden Gatwood and Rich Orr for the information provided.  Your responses suggest that one photo will work for all, more or less.  
Elden, to answer your question, I haven't thought that far ahead so I don't know what the hand brake will be.  Next step is search for an equipment diagram.
Simply because of short industry sidings, 22" and 24" curves, and short trains, cars in excess of a nominal 40' will be underrepresented on my railroad, I predict.  
Gene Green


Re: Hoppers from early 20th century

Scott H. Haycock
 

After Blowing this image up, I don't think the structure in the middle distance is a scale house. It appears too large for that purpose, and has no windows facing the tracks.

The long, thin, vertical object just to the right of this structure looks like an electrical pole with it's cross arms edge on to the plane of view. Considering the power lines to the right of the cut of hoppers on the higher track, this power pole could be connected there, and supply electricity to the structure, which may be a pump house for the nearby water tank.  

Scott Haycock


 

Yes, John, but this is the DL&W.  There was a good bit of ??? on the erielack list about that gauntlet track.  The speculation is that it’s involved with the scale house in the far distance.


Schuyler

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2015 4:00 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Hoppers from early 20th century

 

 

Also interesting is the center track which looks like dual guage or long gauntlet track.  Don't  I've ever seen a piece quite like this.  Wasn't the Erir 6' originally?

 

John Larkin

 



Re: [EXTERNAL] PRR G25 gondolas (UNCLASSIFIED)

genegreen1942@...
 

Thanks to Elden Gatwood and Rich Orr for the information provided.  Your responses suggest that one photo will work for all, more or less.  
Elden, to answer your question, I haven't thought that far ahead so I don't know what the hand brake will be.  Next step is search for an equipment diagram.
Simply because of short industry sidings, 22" and 24" curves, and short trains, cars in excess of a nominal 40' will be underrepresented on my railroad, I predict.  
Gene Green


Re: Hoppers from early 20th century

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Chill, Steve.  STMFC rules say that all photos uploaded have to be reviewed and permitted by (cough) “management.”  AKA Mr. Brock or his west coast henchman, Mr. Aley.  Your photo is in the queue to be reviewed.  Look sometime tomorrow.

 

Schuyler

 

 

 

Wish I could upload a photo  -  process says I have, but album remains empty.   Google has so thoroughly screwed up Picasa that I can't find my old Picasa albums, let alone set up a new public one.  And they want their tentacles on ALL the photo files on your computer.   Anyone know what's with photo process here?  How can I add to photostream here?


Re: Hoppers from early 20th century

stevecaple@...
 

Wish I could upload a photo  -  process says I have, but album remains empty.   Google has so thoroughly screwed up Picasa that I can't find my old Picasa albums, let alone set up a new public one.  And they want their tentacles on ALL the photo files on your computer.   Anyone know what's with photo process here?  How can I add to photostream here?


Re: Hoppers from early 20th century

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Ray, two thoughts:

1.     Viewing these images pretty much daily as I am on the erielack email list, where five images are posted daily, the use of tie plates (which I presume you meant to say) is the rare instance, not the norm, not at all.

2.     In later years, the DL&W may have been a high speed main line, though it never would have rivaled the Nickel Plate.  But in 1912, or thereabouts, speed was not the issue.  We’re moving coal here, not perishables.  Coal doesn’t really spoil in transit.  Now, yes, guys, I know that coal will age and lose some of its caloric value over time, but we’re probably shipping coal in this case to someplace like Coalberg, NJ (no longer named that) where the DL&W stored literal mountains of coal each summer so it was ready to be reloaded and shipped to market in cold weather.  Six or eight months in a pile won’t damage coal much at all.

 

Schuyler

 

 

 

And where exactly would that be, "just west of Scranton"?

 

Occam's Razor applies here: they're guard rails on a sharp S-curve on an incline. And actually, review the other 18,000 images in this collection: this isn't unique on the DL&W.

 

I'm a bit surprised more people aren't mind-boggled by the lack of fish plates on a high speed mainline.

 

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL

 

 


From: "stevecaple@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, June 8, 2015 9:14 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Hoppers from early 20th century

 



I'll post a photo of some manipulation I did in CorelDraw X7  -  cropped to section of the three tracks, drew horizontal line between left most track rails (yellow line).  copied that line, it was pretty close to the. gauge of inner set of rails in second track.  Copied line again, changed color to red, and entered x axis dimension as the existing dimension x 54.5 / 36.  That equaled gauge of outer rails in center track  -  if first line was 36", new one was 54.5", of 4' 8 1/2".  Copied it, and copy pretty closely matched distance between rails in right hand track.n So my guess is 3' gauge on left, dual gauge with 3' in center of standard gauge center track and standard gauge on right.

Steve Caple

 


Re: Hoppers from early 20th century

MDelvec952@...
 


Fish plates were coming soon.  My thoughts were that they were outside guardrails. Note, too, that there's a switch point on the high rail of the curve.

This the Cayuga Breaker within the city limits of Scranton, and near Cayuga Junction, just a couple of miles from DL&W's Keyser Valley Car Shops which maintained every car in the photo                 ....Mike Del Vecchio



-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Breyer rtbsvrr69@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Mon, Jun 8, 2015 10:17 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Hoppers from early 20th century

 
And where exactly would that be, "just west of Scranton"?

Occam's Razor applies here: they're guard rails on a sharp S-curve on an incline. And actually, review the other 18,000 images in this collection: this isn't unique on the DL&W.

I'm a bit surprised more people aren't mind-boggled by the lack of fish plates on a high speed mainline.
 
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL



From: "stevecaple@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, June 8, 2015 9:14 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Hoppers from early 20th century



I'll post a photo of some manipulation I did in CorelDraw X7  -  cropped to section of the three tracks, drew horizontal line between left most track rails (yellow line).  copied that line, it was pretty close to the. gauge of inner set of rails in second track.  Copied line again, changed color to red, and entered x axis dimension as the existing dimension x 54.5 / 36.  That equaled gauge of outer rails in center track  -  if first line was 36", new one was 54.5", of 4' 8 1/2".  Copied it, and copy pretty closely matched distance between rails in right hand track.n So my guess is 3' gauge on left, dual gauge with 3' in center of standard gauge center track and standard gauge on right.

Steve Caple



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