Date   

Re: Erie 75656

John Sykes III
 

I think it is a reversed Buckeye (only the Erie . . .)?

-- John


Erie 75656

Dave Nelson
 

From Ted’s collection – what kind of car end is this?

<<http://www.ebay.com/itm/Erie-75656-1923-ARA-design-box-car-8x10-builders-photo-/371433789543?hash=item567b2dd867>>

 

Dave Nelson


Re: Sylvan HO/O Single Sheathed Box Car

Larry Wolohon
 

John & all you Steam Era Freight Car  fans,

I saw Clare, not sure of spelling his first name, Gilbert of Sylvan Scale Models about 2 weeks ago in Portland, Oregon @ the Train Show following the NMRA Convention & spoke with him for a while. I have known him a few years. In his display @ the National Train Show, there were a lot of model resin automobile kits in mostly HO, but NO freight cars. I asked him about his models & Clare stated that he is NOT making any more freight car models, just vehicle models for now.

I have one of the single sheathed boxcars that he made several years ago in O scale, I have yet to build it but it looks to be a nice kit. 

Larry Wolohon


From: "John Golden golden1014@... [STMFC]"
To: "yahoogroups"
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 12:30:00 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Sylvan HO/O Single Sheathed Box Car

 

Hi Guys,

Sylvan Scale Models at http://www.sylvanscalemodels.com offers an HO and O scale single sheathed box car model that they say is appropriate for CN -and- Frisco. Unfortunately I can't access and send the direct link for your reference but it's easy to navigate their site to find the model.   

Would anyone be able to shed some light on the claim that this model is good for a SL-SF car?  Do you have any photos or comments or references?

Thanks,
John
 
John Golden
O'Fallon, IL



Re: Sylvan HO/O Single Sheathed Box Car

Bill Welch
 

John, I could not get your link to the HO kit to work but maybe this will work: 1051

I think I built The Steam Shack (F&C patterns) version of this car. I could not find the claim that the car is good for the Frisco's version on the Sylvan web site. My memory is that Sunshine did two versions of the Frisco's cars with two different board width's or sizes and never offered one of the CN's Howe truss kits and Martin rarely passed up an opportunity to do decals if his kits were a match for something. Then again maybe he missed it. I do know that the CN and SL-SF cars had Dreadnaught ends and Hutchins roofs. I am not sure I clarified anything. LOL

Bill Welch


Bachmann gondola

ed_mines
 

Haven't seem the Bachmann gon in the flesh but it might be the same as the Erie car (haven't seem the ends at all). It is out of my price range.


p. 217 1940 CBC "Fig 221 - Plan elevation and sections of Pere Marquette 70-ton 50 ft. 6 in. low-side drop-end gondola with wood floor" spacing between ribs varies from 3'9" to 3'11'. Car is not exactly symmetrical around center line - 2'1-3/4" centerline to rib to left, 1'8" centerline to rib to the right. Photo of the car on following page (18400 cap 1439) shows a car close if not identical to the Erie car!


My recollection is that PM had a second group of 50'6" gons capacity 1439 with 2 more ribs (#18650-18889?) built some time later. Found a photo of one of these cars - 18737. I really like these PM gons - they have big jack pads.


Ed Mines


Sylvan HO/O Single Sheathed Box Car

golden1014
 

Hi Guys,

Sylvan Scale Models at http://www.sylvanscalemodels.com offers an HO and O scale single sheathed box car model that they say is appropriate for CN -and- Frisco. Unfortunately I can't access and send the direct link for your reference but it's easy to navigate their site to find the model.   

Would anyone be able to shed some light on the claim that this model is good for a SL-SF car?  Do you have any photos or comments or references?

Thanks,
John
 
John Golden
O'Fallon, IL


Re: Bachmann gondola/Erie 14500 series

Charles Tapper
 

Ed, the C&O cars are the ex-PM cars IIRC. From Al Kresse's excellent book on C&O hoppers and gondolas, not with me right now also. Bachmann's model was based on one or the other.
 
I have one each to make stand-ins for an Erie and C&O ex-PM car. Just have to remove the foobie paint schemes at some point.
 
Erie builders photo of the 50'6" 14,500 series car car, there are interior shots with and without wood flooring also on Fallen Flags:
 
I forgot to mention the MTH Greenville car. It has cast-on ladders as on NYC/P&LE cars, but all of the liabilities (deficiencies) of the P2K car as well. I bought one to check it out.
 
Charlie Tapper
Broken Arrow or OKC,  OK, depending...



On Friday, September 11, 2015 9:35 AM, "ed_mines@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Plans for the Bachmann gondola appear in the 1940 CBC. I believe PM had cars of this design.

Erie's 14500 series gons are different and were built around 1930. Builders photos (take a look) and diagram are on the Fallen flags site. These unusual looking cars had an asymmetrical rib spacing, i.e. there's a panel near the center of the car between 2 ribs less wide than the 2 adjacent panels. If I not mistaken C&O had cars of this design too.

Ed Mines



Resin kits for sale

bnpmodeler
 

Greetings list;

In order to focus my modeling time, I'm modernizing my era to the future of
this list, so I can model the trains I watched in the early 70's. Therefore
I have a good number of unbuilt Steam-Era kits to dispose of. I have 29
kits, from Sunshine (10), Speedwitch (6), Westerfield (5), F&C (7) and
Rocket Express (1). I would prefer to sell the bunch as one lot, and will
entertain bids for the lot, with a reserve set at $600.00. Failing a
satisfactory bid for the lot, I will sell kits individually; shipping costs
are outlined in the list.

I have created a list (in PDF format) with kit details and pricing, which I
will email to any and all interested parties that respond OFF-LIST to me at
bnchmark_AT_embarqmail_DOT_com (watch that your spellcheck doesn't add the
'e' back into bnchmark ;-).

I will close bidding for the lot at 7 PM eastern time on MONDAY, Sept. 14,
2015.

(As a separate sale, I also have three pro-built Westerfield stock cars:
ATSF SK-2, SK-3 and SP S-40-4. Serious inquiries only, e-mail OFF-LIST for
photos and info. $175 each FIRM.)

Thank you to head honcho Mike B (I finally got around to this, chief ;-) and
to all for remembering to reply OFF-LIST!

Jim Harr

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

James Harr
Model Maker
P.O. Box 121
High Bridge, NJ 08829-0121
908-797-0534
www.jamesharrmodelmaker.com


Bachmann gondola/Erie 14500 series

ed_mines
 

Plans for the Bachmann gondola appear in the 1940 CBC. I believe PM had cars of this design.


Erie's 14500 series gons are different and were built around 1930. Builders photos (take a look) and diagram are on the Fallen flags site. These unusual looking cars had an asymmetrical rib spacing, i.e. there's a panel near the center of the car between 2 ribs less wide than the 2 adjacent panels. If I not mistaken C&O had cars of this design too.


Ed Mines


Re: ERIE 50' 6-32 Gons (was NYC 710000-710999 / P&LE 41000-41999 gons)

Charles Tapper
 

I believe that car, in Erie 14500-14949 series and Greenville-built but 50'6" inside, is a possible prototype for the latest Bachmann gondola. The concepts were certainly in place early on and the Greenville 52'6" version is prewar but was not selected for the war emergency design.
 
Charlie Tapper



On Friday, September 11, 2015 6:45 AM, "Andy Carlson midcentury@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Hello-
From a Picture posted by Ted Cullotta, which closes today on Ebay, ERIE had very similar cars dating back to 6-32.  ERIE 14666 Had Dreadnaught reversed drop ends (The sometimes called "Pickle Fork"or "Bifurcated" Dreadnaught). I have captured the B&W Ebay image if anyone reading this is too late to find it on Ebay; simply request (off-list; midcntury@...) a scan and I will send one. Ted's collection of B&W prints is massive, and he sells about 200 per week on Ebay.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA




From: "Charles Tapper charlestapper@... [STMFC]"
Those are "Greenville" design cars. That design is pre-war, with Erie getting some in 1940, for instance.............And an Erie Car: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/139-11-355.gif

Charlie Tapper














ERIE 50' 6-32 Gons (was NYC 710000-710999 / P&LE 41000-41999 gons)

Andy Carlson
 

Hello-
From a Picture posted by Ted Cullotta, which closes today on Ebay, ERIE had very similar cars dating back to 6-32.  ERIE 14666 Had Dreadnaught reversed drop ends (The sometimes called "Pickle Fork"or "Bifurcated" Dreadnaught). I have captured the B&W Ebay image if anyone reading this is too late to find it on Ebay; simply request (off-list; midcntury@...) a scan and I will send one. Ted's collection of B&W prints is massive, and he sells about 200 per week on Ebay.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA




From: "Charles Tapper charlestapper@... [STMFC]"
Those are "Greenville" design cars. That design is pre-war, with Erie getting some in 1940, for instance.............And an Erie Car: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/139-11-355.gif

Charlie Tapper












Re: NYC 710000-710999 / P&LE 41000-41999 gons

Charles Tapper
 

Those are "Greenville" design cars. That design is pre-war, with Erie getting some in 1940, for instance.
 
The P2K car needs a lot of modifications to be made correct for NYC and P&LE, including replacing the grabs with ladders for all except the P&LE 13,000 series cars (lot 871-G). The folding stake pockets must go, the rivet pattern on the outside and inside of the gon on the side ribs is wrong. There is no riveted strip at the top of the inside sheets. The seam caps are missing on the #2 ribs on the inside, there is no angle at the bottom of the sides where they meet the floor, there are cargo ties welded to the side of these cars (not all classes are the same), and some have steel floors and some have wood. On the P&LE the steel floor is dominant.
 
 
I have been spending quite a bit of time documenting all the changes I need to make to these cars to match prototypes and be up-to-date. One of the RP Cycs, which is not with me, has an outstanding article on these cars.MY P&LE gon book by Polaritz is also not with me.
 
This should be a good starting point, others will embellish or correct as needed.
 
Charlie Tapper



On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 8:11 PM, "'Dave Nelson' Lake_Muskoka@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
NYC built 2000 identical gons in 1941-42 – typical 52’ 6” IL, fishbelly side, with 14 side panels, in lots 689-G and 702-G.  My question is:  Are these cars of a standard design with identical cars found on other roads or are they just another homebrew car?
 
To add context, the 52ft gons obtained after these cars  were WWII Emergency gons and after those Greenville design gons.
 
Dave Nelson



Re: Meat Reefers in Produce Service

np328
 

On the prior post I sent, I sent it out too soon. Point 5 should reference 4. 
                                                                                                                                Jim Dick


Re: Central Valley NP stock car model

Tim O'Connor
 

Matt, I think to warn people to "stay away" from the Champ set is somewhat
overstating the case. Unless you are sitting with a good photo and doing a
letter by letter comparison, I challenge you to pick up a model lettered with
the Champ decals and describe precisely what is wrong with letters. Moreover,
the NUMBERS in the Champ set appear to be perfect to my eye. The letters are
a bit on the 'thin' side in some of the verticals and diagonals (we're talking
very sub-millimeter here) and the serifs are thinner.

What might be MORE noticeable is if you have cars done with different sets of
the decals. I've already got Champ decals on "fat" cars so when I use the ends
to make "thin" cars, I'll use Rick's decals. I honestly never noticed any
issue with the Champ decals until Rick's decals came out.

Tim O'Connor

Bill,

A-Line did make decals for the NP Central Valley stock car designed by Rick Leach about 20 years ago. Still have a stash of them but believe they are no longer in production. The NPRHA set is the one to get as Rick also helped design them. Stay away from the Champ set as it has the wrong "font" which prompted Rick to do the set for A-Line.

Matt Herson


Re: Meat Reefers in Produce Service

np328
 

1) If you ask for facts, sorry as I will explain below, I cannot entirely provide them.

2) Next - absence of proof does not constitute proof.

That said, I have looked at quite a few train consists at Northern Pacific Railway Conductors Report of Cars Delivered - Form 1496 - more commonly known as wheel reports, from east bounds over many decades and have NEVER seen a meat reefer, marked as carrying fruit.

3) This idea - does not make sense as applied to the Northern Pacific's way of moving apples. There were massive cold storage warehouses in the Washington State area. The NP tried to keep an even flow of apples moving east. 

      Why did the NP want to throttle back the flow? Because if the market got glutted, prices would fall. Simple supply and demand. And they could keep a smaller reefer fleet busier longer, making more money with less idle time on the cars. Everyone (shippers, sellers, the railroad) comes out ahead.

     Lettuce on the other hand, (Like out of Calif.), well Tony can address that. Soft fruits (Peaches, Plums, Strawberries) from the Yakima Valley of Washington, had to move, because just like Bananas, the clock was ticking, always. However that was REALLY sensitive (point 5 below) and prone to claims. Yes they did grow lettuce in Washington and it was listed as superior to Calif. lettuce. However again, incredibly time sensitive which is why it fell aside.  

    Apple movement on the NP went well into February. I would think as the UP had access to that area, the same applied to the UP.

      In the Wenatchee, GN's apple area, in the 30's and 40's they did move the apples out faster as there was less flat ground in that area to build warehouses. However trucking them a few miles to where there might be warehouses, does take care of that. And that happened post WWII.

    And as one heads from the 30's into the 60's, there were more warehouses, however these were what I will term - fruit consolidation warehouses. In the late 50's things changed (from what I have researched about the WA fruit trade) in that a wrapped pallet having several cases of peaches, several cases of strawberries, two dozen cases of other fruit, and some cases of apples went out to a single consignee, like Valley City, ND produce. The market was changing.  


4) Is not a meat reefer designed to hold REALLY cold temps? And apples, like potatoes if frozen, became unpalatable and mealy in texture. How would claims be handled? It seems like an application just asking for claims.

With all due respect, this idea (to me) is just not logical.           Jim Dick - St. Paul, MN


Re: NOT&M box car build

Charlie Duckworth
 

I worked with Hubert Mask and Mask Island made a NOT&M caboose set for those that were converted to cabooses. This set can be used for the boxcar.

Charlie Duckworth


Re: Car Service Rules

George Courtney
 

    I have a faint memory of reading an artlcle about 30 maybe 40 years years ago about how on the Southern Railway, at that time being discussed in the article,  the local agent called over the line for an empty car for one of his industries.  He received a reply from another agent somewhere up the line who said he had a suitable empty and would send it on the next freight that could pick it up.
    I also have a dim memory of the artlcle mentioning local agents "hiding" some cars nearby for use by their local customers.  The article then discussed how this was changed with a program "Designed by Headquarter Geniuses to be ran by the Fools in the Field,".
    I don't know, but I would suspect that local control was lost with the coming of more powerful computers at Headquarters.  Sorry, I can recall where I read the article and I know it only discussed Southern Railway at that time.

George Courtney


Re: [Reefer-madness] Meat Reefers in Produce Service (apples)

David Sieber
 

Bob and Bob,

     May I suggest that the poetically phrased caption does not actually state that apples from Washington state were being shipped in the line of meat reefers shown, but that the writer - more likely the transcriber! - of the Internet caption gives that misimpression by failing to use punctuation in the second sentence of the caption, as follows:  "The line of refrigerator cars seems to have no end. Solid trains of perishables [comma] meat in the Midwest [comma] apples from Washington [comma] potatoes from Maine or North Dakota or California [comma] were common sights on railroads for over a century [period]"  Makes a lot more sense when punctuated, doesn't it? 

     As was already suggested, it sure looks like a delivery of brand new PC&F reefers for delivery to Wilson Meat Packing ...

HTH, Dave Sieber, Reno NV 


Re: Meat Reefers in Produce Service

Tim O'Connor
 


That (contamination/cleaning) -- plus (1) most meat reefers were leased or
owned privately and (2) meat reefers were in more or less steady-state demand,
whereas there were seasonal, regional surpluses of produce reefers. Probably
able to easily obtain hefty numbers of produce reefers for seasonal peak
traffic than to try to locate (and thoroughly sanitize) hundreds of meat
reefers.

Evidence: photos on MEC/BAR of FGE, MDT and NWX reefers during potato season;
photos of BAR and NWX reefers mixed with PFE reefers in California; FGE cars
mixed with WFE cars on GN in Washington.

Conclusion: You get more variety if you model peak season! :-)

Tim O'


More or less zero, according to PFE people. Cross-contamination issues.
Tony Thompson


How common was this practice of using meat reefers in produce service, in this case apples from Washington state, no doubt during peak of the harvest.
Bob Witt


Re: NOT&M box car build

James E Kubanick
 

For those who cannot locate the Storzek kit, Speedwitch still has their SOO kit listed.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV



On Thursday, September 10, 2015 2:46 PM, "Bill Keene wakeene@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Eric,

Thanks.  I see another “fun project” in my future!!

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Sep 10, 2015, at 11:33 AM, 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


Bill, 
 
Charlie says:
 
Mask  Island just released a set for the NOT&M caboose and it's good for the boxcar as well.
 
 
Here’s the  Mask  Island website.
 
Eric Hansmann
El Paso,  TX
 
 
 
 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@... ] 
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2015 10:58 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NOT&M box car build
 


Hello Eric & Group,
 
Thanks for the link to Charlie’s blog. 
 
As I happen to have an “extra” example of the Storzek Sawtooth box car kit on the shelf, this seems like a good use for it. My question is … for those of us that do not have a well developed decal “scrap pile” what would be the recommend decal source?
 
Cheers & Happy Modeling,
Bill Keene
Irvine ,  CA
 
 
 
On Sep 10, 2015, at 7:03 AM, 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 
 
Charlie Duckworth offers build and weathering tips on a Storzek Sawtooth box car kit on the Resin Car Works blog this week. Charlie modified the kit to reflect a NOT&M prototype that was discussed recently here on the STMFC list.
 
Eric Hansmann
El Paso,  TX
 
 
 





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