Date   

Re: Mask Island, Oddalls, Glow was Champ Decals vendors: Are there a

asychis@...
 

Nope, Jon, not a "grin"  Jerry Michels


Re: Champ Decals Shortcomings

Brian Termunde
 


"Present day standards" did not occur
overnight and just fairly recently. Folks like Richard Zenk, Richard
Hendricskson The East Coast RPI guys and dozens of others popularized prototype
modeling and many great efforts blossomed forth.-Andy Carlson Ojai
CA
**************************************************************

Not long ago, on another Yahoo group that I am no longer a member of (I left as I felt it no longer met my needs), "Prototype Modelers" / "Rivet Counters" were being criticized as being detrimental to the hobby. I pointed out that thanks to "Prototype Modelers" and "Rivet Counters", we had gone from generic diesels, steam locomotive and freight cars (steam era of course! <G>) that ran poorly (if at all) with huge couplers, to the current situation where we have great models of all kinds, so many that oftentimes we get a bit spoiled I think! Well my defense of "Prototype Modelers" / "Rivet Counters" didn't go over very well, and so I decided to part ways.

Personally, I'm very grateful for all the "rivet counters", I may ignore what they teach me, but instead of doing so blindly, at least I'm doing so KNOWINGLY. Also, I enjoy learning and using the proper terms rather then made up model railroad terms. It doesn't necessarily make me a better person or modeler, but hopefully at least a more knowledgeable one.

Take Care,
 
Brian R. Termunde
Midvale, UT
 
"My Train of Thought left the station without me!"


Re: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?

Pierre Oliver
 

If a master "tool" wasn't taken from the original styrene pattern, then the patterns could very easily be worn out. You can only make so many rubber molds from a styrene pattern.
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 9/01/15 4:02 PM, Mike Bauers mwbauers55@... [STMFC] wrote:

�

Can someone explain how the masters can be worn out????


They would only be used to make new molds. [misused and abused ?]

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Sep 1, 2015, at 1:55 PM, ajfergus wrote:

Thanks Jon.�

Norwest kits a little history-
All masters were �by the master Brian Pate. He also cast for many years (10?).
He then decided to stop casting and gave the masters to Brian Rudco who cast kits for several years(<10years). He is no longer casting. the masters are worn out I'm told.
The research material for the passenger cars are with BGR who has said he will redo.
Freight cars into the mists of time. If ya got em build em.�
Allen


Re: Mask Island, Oddalls, Glow was Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?

David Siegfried
 

Sorry, meant for this to go off list.


Dave Siegfried




From: STMFC@... on behalf of Jon Miller atsfus@... [STMFC]
Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 4:45 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Mask Island, Oddalls, Glow was Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?
 
 

On 9/1/2015 1:31 PM, asychis@... [STMFC] wrote:
Still waiting on those new ALPS printers from China I suppose

    I haven't heard about this but maybe it's a grin?  And speaking about an ALPS I have one I haven't used in ages, mostly like new with dust.  Anyone interested?

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Mask Island, Oddalls, Glow was Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?

David Siegfried
 

How much are you asking, Jon>


Dave Siegfried

6419 River Styx Rd.

Medina,OH 44256




From: STMFC@... on behalf of Jon Miller atsfus@... [STMFC]
Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 4:45 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Mask Island, Oddalls, Glow was Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?
 
 

On 9/1/2015 1:31 PM, asychis@... [STMFC] wrote:
Still waiting on those new ALPS printers from China I suppose

    I haven't heard about this but maybe it's a grin?  And speaking about an ALPS I have one I haven't used in ages, mostly like new with dust.  Anyone interested?

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Mask Island, Oddalls, Glow was Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 9/1/2015 1:31 PM, asychis@... [STMFC] wrote:
Still waiting on those new ALPS printers from China I suppose

    I haven't heard about this but maybe it's a grin?  And speaking about an ALPS I have one I haven't used in ages, mostly like new with dust.  Anyone interested?

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Mask Island, Oddalls, Glow was Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?

asychis@...
 

As a comment, the Missouri Pacific Historical Society and the Amarillo Railroad Museum have used Mask Island decals (Hubert Mask), and have been very satisfied with his work. 
 
I bet if an inquiry was made, Mr. Stolte still considers himself in business and would be HAPPY to take your cash or check.  So he most likely would not be interested in selling his artwork.  Still waiting on those new ALPS printers from China I suppose
 
As to Jerry Glow, he produced great decals.  I wish he had taken the opportunity to exit the business in a more "customer-friendly" way.
 
Jerry Michels


Re: Oregon lumber traffic

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Tim,

The WP/GN did handle quite a bit of perishable traffic as well as lumber. I have no figures, but many of my WP photo books show refrigerators running at the front of consist in the 1950s and 60s on the inside gateway, and there was an ice dock at Bieber (IIRC). It isn't clear which direction the trains are going in most photos though. I suggest Washington apples and cherries went southbound in season, with California peaches and plums, plus truck crops, going north.

The WP also handled a LOT of canned goods, and were pioneers in using 50' RBLs for that traffic beginning in 1955 with their first order of insulated, "compartmentizer-equipped" plug door PS-1s. Some of their northbound traffic had to have been canned goods.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 9/1/15 1:09 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Jeff Aley wrote

 > In short, the total OR – CA shipment of Products of Forests is 49,400 carloads
 > for the year 1950. See

   http://hdl.handle.net/2027/mdp.39015019920837?urlappend=%3Bseq=287

 > Please note that these statistics are from the 1% waybill sample, so the real numbers
 > are 100X bigger (that's how I got 49,400 carloads from the 494 carloads in the table).

That sounds about right -- the bulk of the traffic via this route would have been
forest products and other non-time-sensitive traffic. While the SP lines probably
didn't get 10x this amount of forest products (more likely 5x-6x) they would have
had far more perishables, merchandise and especially LCL traffic. Before 1950 LCL
was a still a sizable percentage of box car loadings.

Don't forget UP's contribution -- the UP interchanged with CP (via Spokane International)
and had plenty of forest products coming down from Idaho & Washington on its own lines.
I suspect almost all of that going to northern California markets would go via Portland
and the SP, while they'd probably try to route southern California traffic via LA&SL.

Tim O'Connor






Re: Pacific Northwest lumber traffic

Greg Martin
 

I always find it interesting when the lumber moves to California becomes the topic.
 
Let me just say that for the California market the majority of products consumed were by in large just a few species like Douglas Fir, Western Hemlock ( also referred to as Hem Fir, or White Fir), Redwood, Western and California Incense Cedar Ponderosa Pine, Inland Douglas Fir/Larch (DF-L). Very little as to say a negligible amounts of Canadian Spruce/Pine/Fir SPF was consumed. Timbers, dimension, boards trim and plyscore/plywood were mostly gathered from Washington State south with the majority of products coming from the mid Willamette Valley, then Northern California and them Washington State, followed by Idaho and Montana, then British Columbia.
 
Roll paper did come across the boarder as did grain, but for the Canadian Lumber that crossed the boarder it was BC coastal mills trying to access points like Oklahoma and Texas and parts of Colorado and a small percentage for the California market for specialized products.
 
As for Southern California the SP owned the receivers by about five to one. The folks that were on the Santa Fe could gain SP wood through the Stockton or Bakersfield interchange with the SP really pushing the Bakersfield interchange.  For the shippers on the OE the normal interchange was Portland, OR via the NP or the GN. SP&S was to the GN at the Oregon Trunk to the WP at K-Falls to the Santa Fe at  Stockton to receivers in Southern California. The NP could utilized this route as well but favored the SP, but let us not forget the choice of routes was the shippers. The NP to the SP was a short haul but less bridge routes involved. The Milwaukee favored the UP and the few UP receivers in the LA Basin could often be found with lumber from Washington State in their yards. 
 
Greg Martin  
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 
Doug Polinder writes:

"My observations of Pacific Northwest lumber traffic agree with Chuck Soule's sightings in Tacoma. GN received interchange cars from CN at New Westminster BC, and I believe CN forwarded cars from PGE to GN. In many of the southbound trains through Ferndale WA the majority of the cars were Canadian, the vast majority of them CN. CP tended to interchange with NP at Sumas WA/Huntingdon BC, and CP cars on GN were uncommon. NP had one train a day from the border, while GN usually had three or four.

The Canadian cars flowed south to California. NP moved cars to Portland and handed them off to SP. GN had a longer linehaul since it interchanged with WP at Bieber CA. Very little Canadian traffic moved east on GN or NP, since the Canadian roads did not wish to shorthaul themselves when they could carry their own traffic east to Minneapolis or Chicago (via SOO or other interchange partners).

Former GN employees confirm these observations. I have not yet uncovered any wheel reports or other documentation from the steam era or 1960s; that would be like finding the Holy Grail or Schliemann's Mask of Agamemnon.

Doug Polinder
Grand Rapids MI


Re: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?

mwbauers
 

Can someone explain how the masters can be worn out????

They would only be used to make new molds. [misused and abused ?]

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Sep 1, 2015, at 1:55 PM, ajfergus wrote:

Thanks Jon. 

Norwest kits a little history-
All masters were  by the master Brian Pate. He also cast for many years (10?).
He then decided to stop casting and gave the masters to Brian Rudco who cast kits for several years(<10years). He is no longer casting. the masters are worn out I'm told.
The research material for the passenger cars are with BGR who has said he will redo.
Freight cars into the mists of time. If ya got em build em. 
Allen


Re: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?

Allen Ferguson
 

Thanks Jon. 
Norwest kits a little history-
All masters were  by the master Brian Pate. He also cast for many years (10?).
He then decided to stop casting and gave the masters to Brian Rudco who cast kits for several years(<10years). He is no longer casting. the masters are worn out I'm told.
The research material for the passenger cars are with BGR who has said he will redo.
Freight cars into the mists of time. If ya got em build em. 
Allen


Re: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?

Anspach Denny <danspachmd@...>
 

I can surely connect to the successful use of old decals, some coming from Champ’s old Cleveland address, and some coming from Bill Walthers himself (with correspondence) in the ‘50s.  

That said, I also caution to first  test whether or not the decal film is still intact, and if not, or perhaps  even if it is, coat it first with Microscale’s decal film. Some old decals have difficulty separating (a problem also with some recent custom decals), and there is not much that I know what to do about it except exercise hope and patience.

Denny 
Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento





Re: Oregon lumber traffic

railsnw@...
 

As to Oregon Electric traffic heading North and East, some of this would have been handed over to the Great Northern in the Portland/Vancouver area than it headed East to Wishram on the SP&S than South on the Oregon Trunk to Bend and than to Klamath Falls before heading to Beiber and the hand off to the Western Pacific.Also a fair bit of lumber traffic would have been picked up at Bend by the GN and headed South.

Richard Wilkens


Pacific Northwest lumber traffic

Doug Polinder
 

My observations of Pacific Northwest lumber traffic agree with Chuck Soule's sightings in Tacoma. GN received interchange cars from CN at New Westminster BC, and I believe CN forwarded cars from PGE to GN. In many of the southbound trains through Ferndale WA the majority of the cars were Canadian, the vast majority of them CN. CP tended to interchange with NP at Sumas WA/Huntingdon BC, and CP cars on GN were uncommon. NP had one train a day from the border, while GN usually had three or four.

The Canadian cars flowed south to California. NP moved cars to Portland and handed them off to SP. GN had a longer linehaul since it interchanged with WP at Bieber CA. Very little Canadian traffic moved east on GN or NP, since the Canadian roads did not wish to shorthaul themselves when they could carry their own traffic east to Minneapolis or Chicago (via SOO or other interchange partners).

Former GN employees confirm these observations. I have not yet uncovered any wheel reports or other documentation from the steam era or 1960s; that would be like finding the Holy Grail or Schliemann's Mask of Agamemnon.

Doug Polinder
Grand Rapids MI


Re: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?

Eric Hiser <ehiser@...>
 

Tom Casey observed:

 

Probably the best hope is for short run projects researched, sponsored, developed and marketed through the hobby via cooperation betwen any specific historical society and a custom decal printer.  I think the days of having a broad in -stock selection of decals is waning.   Even as far as the mini-kit concept that Martin Lofton offered via Sunshine Models.

 

Tom Casey 

 

The Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society would be interested in pursuing some specific decal projects of this nature.  We are in the process of establishing a modeling committee for this purpose. If any member of this list would like to assist in that process, please email me at Pres@... and I will forward your interest to the modeling committee.

 

Eric Hiser

President

Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society

Pres@...

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: aschneiderjr@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tue, Sep 1, 2015 9:05 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?

 

Today's best decals have an uneven coverage of steam era roads, even major ones like NYC. As to aging, I have successfully applied Champ decals from a package giving the address as Cleveland 2, Ohio - probably 1950s.

 

Alex Schneider
 


From: "asychis@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 6:56 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?

 




Compared to the quality and accuracy of today's best decals, buying Champs' stock would be akin to buying Lionel's "Prototypically Correct Paint Schemes" handbook for half a million dollars. By the way, don't the owners know that those decals are "aging?" 

 

Jerry Michels

 

 





Re: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?

Allen Ferguson
 

You can get your joint bars for your rail here:
Allen

 




(No subject)

Don Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Since this is 1 September and not 1 April one really has to ask,
WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU GUYS SMOKING? I do not think
it was, or could be, legally transported in a steam era freight car
of any known type!

Cordially, Don Valentine


Schuyler Larrabee
Message 1 of 9 , Today at 12:02 PM
View Source


That happens with some decoders now . . . usually only once, though.

Schuyler


Sure, like someday we'll have "real digital" smoke someday.

Tom Casey
We do have machines that 3d print in full color.

As of today, they do not have the required resolution we need for scale model lettering…….. or NBW-rivet detail.

Some tomorrow to come, we will have that as well.

Sometime after that, we will have perfect scale models of accurate scale materials. But you won’t be able to handle
them at all without damaging them.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Aug 31, 2015, at 10:23 PM, Charles Peck wrote:

By the way, I do know one way to do the lettering without decal film.
You put the model into your little 3D printing machine, align the laser
marks, and print the lettering right in place on the car. No, I don't have
that machine. But I bet someone will try.
Chuck Peck in FL

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 11:18 PM, Charles Peck <lnnrr152@...> wrote:
The technology in the hobby has advanced by leaps and bounds. It's not going to
stop advancing tomorrow. In 25 years some of us, probably not me, will be seeing
advances hard to imagine today.




-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Bauers mwbauers55@... [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
To: STMFC <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Sep 1, 2015 9:44 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Champ Decals Shortcomings


We do have machines that 3d print in full color.

As of today, they do not have the required resolution we need for scale model lettering…….. or NBW-rivet detail.

Some tomorrow to come, we will have that as well.

Sometime after that, we will have perfect scale models of accurate scale materials. But you won’t be able to handle
them at all without damaging them.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Aug 31, 2015, at 10:23 PM, Charles Peck wrote:

By the way, I do know one way to do the lettering without decal film.
You put the model into your little 3D printing machine, align the laser
marks, and print the lettering right in place on the car. No, I don't have
that machine. But I bet someone will try.
Chuck Peck in FL

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 11:18 PM, Charles Peck <lnnrr152@...> wrote:
The technology in the hobby has advanced by leaps and bounds. It's not going to
stop advancing tomorrow. In 25 years some of us, probably not me, will be seeing
advances hard to imagine today.

………………..


Re: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?

Tim O'Connor
 


Don is very open about his business plans, although he can certainly
drag his feet with the best of them. :-) If we don't find out sooner I'll
ask him at one of the train shows I go to over the next 6 months...

And also, poke him about HO scale fishplates !! I'd love to have a few
hundred, or thousand, to apply to trackwork and scenery...

Tim O'Connor



Tim O'Connor wrote:

Don Tichy has acquired Jerry Glow's decals -- this was reported by John Riddell.

    That is absolutely great news. There are really a lot of terrific decals in Jerry's line. Do we know when the line may be back on sale, e.g. listed on a web site or otherwise announced?

Tony Thompson


Re: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?

Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

 

Don Tichy has acquired Jerry Glow's decals -- this was reported by John Riddell.


    That is absolutely great news. There are really a lot of terrific decals in Jerry's line. Do we know when the line may be back on sale, e.g. listed on a web site or otherwise announced?

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Oregon lumber traffic

Tim O'Connor
 

Jeff Aley wrote

 > In short, the total OR � CA shipment of Products of Forests is 49,400 carloads
 > for the year 1950. See

   http://hdl.handle.net/2027/mdp.39015019920837?urlappend=%3Bseq=287

 > Please note that these statistics are from the 1% waybill sample, so the real numbers
 > are 100X bigger (that's how I got 49,400 carloads from the 494 carloads in the table).

That sounds about right -- the bulk of the traffic via this route would have been
forest products and other non-time-sensitive traffic. While the SP lines probably
didn't get 10x this amount of forest products (more likely 5x-6x) they would have
had far more perishables, merchandise and especially LCL traffic. Before 1950 LCL
was a still a sizable percentage of box car loadings.

Don't forget UP's contribution -- the UP interchanged with CP (via Spokane International)
and had plenty of forest products coming down from Idaho & Washington on its own lines.
I suspect almost all of that going to northern California markets would go via Portland
and the SP, while they'd probably try to route southern California traffic via LA&SL.

Tim O'Connor




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