Date   

Re: Intermountain Kits-sporadic availability

ajferguson@...
 

I think that sporadic availability is fine if the wait is in months, it means that they are still selling. The guys you gotta worry about are the ones selling 10 year old stock, they'll never re-run that stuff if it sells out. 
I have 300 different sets in my decal cat alog. About half, when they sell out I probably won't reprint. Alps (& Roland) consumables will be gone next year. Screen printing will soon be the only way to go but you need volume to do that and volume has been dropping off. 
Made to order is fine if you want a hundred or more. 
So you'll be left with rolling your own with the laser or inkjet printers (no white) or paying for more than you want.
Allen Ferguson
Black Cat Publishing


Re: NYC ARA Boxcars

rwitt_2000
 

Some notes from the last discussion in March of 2014.

NYC Spec. 486 Boxcars

 

Suppose I want six of the NYC steel boxcars modeled by BLI. For 1951 - 53 how many should be 7/8 ends and how many should be Dreadnaught?

 

I suspect the answer to my question is in RPCyc21, which I do not yet have. – Jeff Aley

 

In the October 2006, MRC, Essential Freight Car article #34, NYC USRA design box cars, there is a table that lists all of the cars, and their similarities/differences. - Aaron Gjermundson

 

That information is also in the roster in my March, 2007 Railmodel Journal article on these cars. The only Spec. 486 box cars that had Dreadnaught ends were those built in 1927: 1,000 cars for the Big Four (later absorbed into the NYC roster), 50 cars for the Peoria & Eastern, and 1,000 cars for the NYC itself. So that's 2,050 cars out of almost 21,000, approximately one in ten. All the other cars had 7-8 corrugated ends. - Richard Hendrickson


Roster NYC Specification 486 Box Car from March, 2007 Railmodel Journal

Lots 539-B, 560-B and 563-B had Dreadnaught ends

TrainLife - March 2007 - Page 43

 

By the summer of 1946, most of the NYC’s USRA design steel box cars had new roofs - the rebuilding process started before WW II. – Richard Hendrickson mar-2014 STMFC Steam era freight car discussion group. The time period covered will be from 1900-1960.

 

And there is much more in the STMFC archives ...

Bob Witt


Re: NYC USRA-Steel Design Boxcars

Benjamin Hom
 

John Sykes wrote:


"Actually, the photo you provided the link to (which is excellent), adds more smoke than light to the discussion.  Some of the cars appear to have flat-panel roofs with wood running boards, some appear to have raised panel (Murphy) roofs with US Gypsum running boards and at least one car near the foreground has a diagonal panel roof with USG running boards, but no roadnumber visible.  Finally, the one in the very foreground has raised panels & wood running boards but no visible number."

You're missing the point that Bruce Smith and I are making.  As NYCS upgraded these cars over time, there were a variety of roof and running board combinations.  The BLI car models one of them.  Richard Hendrickson was a leading advisor to BLI on these models - I don't know about you, but that gives me a high degree of confidence.  After all, you admitted you weren't an NYC expert.


Ben Hom


Re: Question on exNYC boxcar sold to Rutland - NOT!

Benjamin Hom
 

Charlie Duckworth asked:
"Am building the Dennis Storzek 1916 NYC boxcar and am finishing it as a Rutland boxcar circa 1954 as shown in Ed Mines photo."




Armand Premo replied:
"Unfortunately the ends of the NYC Cars were different than the ends of the Rutland cars."

Armand is correct.  The NYCS cars had 7/7 inverse Murphy ends; the Rutland cars, BUILT NEW FOR THE RUTLAND AND NOT SECONDHAND NYC CARS, had 6/8 ends.

No need to hunt up the Storzek kits if you want these cars in HO - they're available from Westerfield in their 10100-series kits.
https://id18538.securedata.net/westerfieldmodels.com/merchantmanager/index.php?cPath=80


Ben Hom


Re: Model identity question

 

I agree. – Al Westerfield
 

Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2014 11:19 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Model identity question
 
 

Hello Tom: The frame and radial roof look like they came from my 1900/2000 series kits.
Can't tell about the rest at this time.

Andrew Dahm
Westerfieldmodels@...


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

 

From: pullmanboss@... [STMFC] ;
To: ;
Subject: [STMFC] Model identity question
Sent: Sun, Aug 3, 2014 3:25:08 AM

 

I recently won an eBay auction for a resin  double sheathed box car, ostensibly Sunshine, but now that it's arrived it looks like a Westerfield. Car is assembled body only, weighted, with trucks & Kadee couplers, in a nice Reboxx box. No instructions, no detail parts, no decals, no identification, just the body. It was one of a half dozen similar models offered, probably from an estate. Assembly is very well done.


I have no clue what it is. Gray resin 40' double sheathed wood body, wood doors, 5-5-6 inverse Murphy ends, B end has retainer valve cast in place, radial roof, straight center sill, floor has trainline cast in place. Set up for ladders on sides & ends. Tichy K brake cylinder installed but no levers or rigging. Found a 5-5-6 inverse Murphy end in Westerfield's Parts catalog, but it doesn't have poling pockets while the model in question does. It's either a one-piece body casting or a spectacularly well done assembly job. Floor is bonded in place so I can't examine the inside. End fascias are fashioned from styrene.


Probably should stay away from these things, but  the radial roof intrigued me and my low bid won. I can't find anything like it in Sunshine's product line, and I'm not familiar enough with the breadth of the Westerfield line to begin to know where to look. Anyone recognize this? EBay auction number was 161374111648.


TIA


Tom Madden


Re: Intermountain Kits-sporadic availability

caboose9792@...
 

But as an economist will point out it is an elastic market. Manufactures seem to fight to have the highest prices these days yet sales seem to be in free fall. Its a hobby and buyers can sit out of the market if I don't like the price, buying food well not so much.
 
Mark Rickert
 

In a message dated 8/2/2014 4:18:50 P.M. Central Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:
All of this merchandise is market driven. If kits, paint and decals sold briskly more would be available. 


Re: Question on exNYC boxcar sold to Rutland

Charlie Duckworth
 

Phil
Thanks for the information.
Charlie Duckworth


Re: Intermountain Kits-sporadic availability

caboose9792@...
 

They should move to a made to order business plan like most industries. Buying because you "may need it some day" sounds like the story line on hoarders. I've sold off most of my non-HO stuff  so the market is out there, it seems like the manufactures are the one to blame as they refuse to adapt. It was painful to make the change from the "make it and wait till they buy it" model to the "make it when they buy it" model, but has since saved us when our comparators failed because they could not adapt.
 
Mark Rickert
 

In a message dated 8/2/2014 11:33:58 P.M. Central Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:

I feel that Intermountain are simply applying the same business plan to undec kits that they have applied successfully* to their RTR products.

Make to order.

So if you want or think you may want a kit in the foreseeable future, order one.

If not, you are relying on sufficient orders from other to generate a production run.

I believe Intermountain are testing the water to see what demand still exists for slower moving kits.

They don’t want to fill their shelves with stuff that doesn’t sell, so they are implicitly asking us to hold our hands up if we are interested.


Re: Model identity question

James SANDIFER
 

Contact Westerfield. Andrew is a fine guy to work with and can supply your needs.



__________________________________________________

J. Stephen Sandifer

Minister Emeritus, Southwest Central Church of Christ

Webmaster, Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2014 12:43 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Model identity question





Thanks, Andrew - and to Paul Kohler who replied off list. It's clearly a Westerfield T&P boxcar, kit # 2051. Finding the parts to finish it looks pretty straightforward, now to find some decals. Maybe Armand has some..... :-)



Tom Madden





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Intermountain Kits-sporadic availability

Pierre Oliver
 

Normally I prefer to stay out of these debates, however...
The term "debacle" to describe what was in part a series of unfortunate tragedies ending in Martin Lofton's death is, at best, a poor choice of words. Martin's widow is struggling with deciding what to do with what is left of Sunshine Models. Ask yourself, "How well would my world hold up if I died suddenly?"
Of course, you could try creating your own kit business and rectify all the problems you see.
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 03/08/2014 7:57 AM, caboose9792@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

Right there is the problem. JG's irregular business practices probably has done more to hurt the hobby than about anything. So who would make the same decals as JG given your never sure if he is going to start cranking them out again then there is all the people that seem to have been burned by him. It seems like about half his "buyers" have gotten burned.
 
Running concurrently was the "sunshine" debacle with the send us money and we may have your kit (shopping by lottery?) and again no word about reentering the market making new versions of the kits previously offered a risky proposition.  I guess I'm lucky that the only thing I could use is IC hoppers about 50-100 more to displace or totally retire my primarily bluebox fleet of two bay hoppers.
 
Mark Rickert
 
In a message dated 8/2/2014 4:58:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:
Jerry Glow has made a few sets for me .I try to collect cars that I can   document that actually ran on the roads that I model.My stash is rather small now as I have built just about all I had.A.Premo


Re: Intermountain Kits-sporadic availability

caboose9792@...
 

Right there is the problem. JG's irregular business practices probably has done more to hurt the hobby than about anything. So who would make the same decals as JG given your never sure if he is going to start cranking them out again then there is all the people that seem to have been burned by him. It seems like about half his "buyers" have gotten burned.
 
Running concurrently was the "sunshine" debacle with the send us money and we may have your kit (shopping by lottery?) and again no word about reentering the market making new versions of the kits previously offered a risky proposition.  I guess I'm lucky that the only thing I could use is IC hoppers about 50-100 more to displace or totally retire my primarily bluebox fleet of two bay hoppers.
 
Mark Rickert
 

In a message dated 8/2/2014 4:58:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:
Jerry Glow has made a few sets for me .I try to collect cars that I can   document that actually ran on the roads that I model.My stash is rather small now as I have built just about all I had.A.Premo


Re: Intermountain Kits-sporadic availability

caboose9792@...
 

 
 
In a message dated 8/2/2014 10:22:07 A.M. Central Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:

I am not sure why you would make such a blanket statement like that when there are lots of decals still out there.  I would even say that the there are more accurate sets available than at any other time.  Sure Walthers, Champ, and Herald King no longer offer decals but many of these sets were inaccurate or came with generic data.  


There are a lot more smaller companies or individuals selling many more accurate sets.  

Staying on the Intermountain undec theme I have finished the following cars starting with the Intermountain undec 1958 cuft covered hopper car.  While most are too modern for this list it still shows the variety of decals still available:

DT&I - MG Decals
EL- Prime Mover Decals
CofG - Mask Island
ICG - Kohlberg 

-Tom Haag
Given the EL and ICG post date the list would be a start, leaving you with just two regional lines. I do have some of Dan's decals but his stem ere IC stuff is rather limited and that is intentional.
 
Mark Rickert


Re: Digest Number 8881

N Fries <nfriespf@...>
 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone

STMFC@... wrote:


Re: Model identity question

Tom Madden
 

Thanks, Andrew - and to Paul Kohler who replied off list. It's clearly a Westerfield T&P boxcar, kit # 2051. Finding the parts to finish it looks pretty straightforward, now to find some decals. Maybe Armand has some..... :-)


Tom Madden


Re: Intermountain Kits-sporadic availability

North Model Railroad Supplies <nmrs@...>
 

I feel that Intermountain are simply applying the same business plan to undec kits that they have applied successfully* to their RTR products.

Make to order.

So if you want or think you may want a kit in the foreseeable future, order one.

If not, you are relying on sufficient orders from other to generate a production run.

I believe Intermountain are testing the water to see what demand still exists for slower moving kits.

They don’t want to fill their shelves with stuff that doesn’t sell, so they are implicitly asking us to hold our hands up if we are interested.

 

*The success I refer to is their management of their inventory control, not our ability to buy anything when we want to- grin.

 

So far as decals are concerned, there are a number of custom decals makers using silk screen or ALPS printers, many of whom post to this list.

Plus if the decal doesn’t include white, Micro Mark and others sell Ink Jet compatible decal paper.

A number of railroad fonts are available from Ben Coifmann and they work in Word or Corel Draw, so for simple jobs you can “roll your own”.

 

I recently met a guy here in Australia who has a Roland printer and he has indicated an interest in making custom decals.

He bought the printer to make decals for a line of limited run Australian outline N scale models.

He showed me some sample and they were impressive.

 

And as far as paint is concerned, Tru Color seem more than happy to accept new color suggestions to add to their ever expanding line of acetone based paints. Plus Scalecoat and Badger are still making product.

 

I don’t feel that I’ve said anything here that isn’t already common knowledge (except about the Roland guy), but I sense that there is a “self fullfilling” thought process coming through in the hobby especially since Floquil’s demise.

 

If we let that thinking influence our buying then there won’t be any kits, and the surviving paint and decal manufacturers will stop making decals.

IMHO, given that the kits are an “add on” to the RTR production runs, if the members of this list alone bought one kit each, that would be enough for IM to run the kits.

 

Just my 10c worth

Cheers

Dave North

(Climbs down off soap box and sits quietly in the corner)

 

 

 


Re: Model identity question

dahminator68
 

Hello Tom: The frame and radial roof look like they came from my 1900/2000 series kits.
Can't tell about the rest at this time.

Andrew Dahm
Westerfieldmodels@...


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad


From: pullmanboss@... [STMFC] ;
To: ;
Subject: [STMFC] Model identity question
Sent: Sun, Aug 3, 2014 3:25:08 AM

 

I recently won an eBay auction for a resin  double sheathed box car, ostensibly Sunshine, but now that it's arrived it looks like a Westerfield. Car is assembled body only, weighted, with trucks & Kadee couplers, in a nice Reboxx box. No instructions, no detail parts, no decals, no identification, just the body. It was one of a half dozen similar models offered, probably from an estate. Assembly is very well done.


I have no clue what it is. Gray resin 40' double sheathed wood body, wood doors, 5-5-6 inverse Murphy ends, B end has retainer valve cast in place, radial roof, straight center sill, floor has trainline cast in place. Set up for ladders on sides & ends. Tichy K brake cylinder installed but no levers or rigging. Found a 5-5-6 inverse Murphy end in Westerfield's Parts catalog, but it doesn't have poling pockets while the model in question does. It's either a one-piece body casting or a spectacularly well done assembly job. Floor is bonded in place so I can't examine the inside. End fascias are fashioned from styrene.


Probably should stay away from these things, but  the radial roof intrigued me and my low bid won. I can't find anything like it in Sunshine's product line, and I'm not familiar enough with the breadth of the Westerfield line to begin to know where to look. Anyone recognize this? EBay auction number was 161374111648.


TIA


Tom Madden


Re: Model identity question

Tim O'Connor
 

Tom, the underframe immediately said "X29" to me and the placement
of the trucks underscores that, with the wheels almost sticking out
from the ends. I can't find any car like this in Sunshine et al --
could it be someone's improvisation?

Tim O'Connor

I recently won an eBay auction for a resin double sheathed box car, ostensibly Sunshine, but now that it's arrived it looks like a Westerfield. Car is assembled body only, weighted, with trucks & Kadee couplers, in a nice Reboxx box. No instructions, no detail parts, no decals, no identification, just the body. It was one of a half dozen similar models offered, probably from an estate. Assembly is very well done.


I have no clue what it is. Gray resin 40' double sheathed wood body, wood doors, 5-5-6 inverse Murphy ends, B end has retainer valve cast in place, radial roof, straight center sill, floor has trainline cast in place. Set up for ladders on sides & ends. Tichy K brake cylinder installed but no levers or rigging. Found a 5-5-6 inverse Murphy end in Westerfield's Parts catalog, but it doesn't have poling pockets while the model in question does. It's either a one-piece body casting or a spectacularly well done assembly job. Floor is bonded in place so I can't examine the inside. End fascias are fashioned from styrene.


Probably should stay away from these things, but the radial roof intrigued me and my low bid won. I can't find anything like it in Sunshine's product line, and I'm not familiar enough with the breadth of the Westerfield line to begin to know where to look. Anyone recognize this? EBay auction number was 161374111648.


TIA


Tom Madden


Model identity question

Tom Madden
 

I recently won an eBay auction for a resin  double sheathed box car, ostensibly Sunshine, but now that it's arrived it looks like a Westerfield. Car is assembled body only, weighted, with trucks & Kadee couplers, in a nice Reboxx box. No instructions, no detail parts, no decals, no identification, just the body. It was one of a half dozen similar models offered, probably from an estate. Assembly is very well done.


I have no clue what it is. Gray resin 40' double sheathed wood body, wood doors, 5-5-6 inverse Murphy ends, B end has retainer valve cast in place, radial roof, straight center sill, floor has trainline cast in place. Set up for ladders on sides & ends. Tichy K brake cylinder installed but no levers or rigging. Found a 5-5-6 inverse Murphy end in Westerfield's Parts catalog, but it doesn't have poling pockets while the model in question does. It's either a one-piece body casting or a spectacularly well done assembly job. Floor is bonded in place so I can't examine the inside. End fascias are fashioned from styrene.


Probably should stay away from these things, but  the radial roof intrigued me and my low bid won. I can't find anything like it in Sunshine's product line, and I'm not familiar enough with the breadth of the Westerfield line to begin to know where to look. Anyone recognize this? EBay auction number was 161374111648.


TIA


Tom Madden


Re: Type "D" vs. Type "E" Coupler Tests

Guy Wilber
 

Dave, you asked:
 
"Did the ARA report cite anything about the actual value of the maximum strength for either type?  Essentially is that 40,000 lbs. greater strength a 1% improvement or something like a 20% improvement?"
 
Dave,
 
The value of maximum strength for the Type "D" was 295,000 lbs., while the Type "E" was 335,200.  An 8.8% improvement. 
 
Kindest Regards,

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada
 
 


For fans of the ATSF

hvyweight41
 

Disclaimer: I have no connection with the person selling these books.


FYI, I just saw what looks like a large collection of ATSF Society reference books come up for sale on eBay, including the out of print Frank Ellington Stock Car book. IMHO, they are reasonably priced. It's a good opportunity to fill out your reference library. I don't think they'll last long.


Thanks,

Keith Kempster

Jacksonville, FL