Date   

Re: diagonal panel roof drawing?

Misc Clark
 

Hi Ed - thanks for the info...I'll be sure to update the drawing!
regards,
Clark Cone

On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 10:46 AM, Ed Hawkins hawk0621@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

On Dec 8, 2014, at 7:35 AM, Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] wrote:

Clark Cone wrote:
 "Ben - you said "Make sure you don't get the drawing that's 41 ft long"... Ha! which drawing is that?"

 Whichever one Branchline used. Always verify any drawing, but especially Hundman's. I can think of at least three significant HO scale manufacturers' errors attributed to them - the initial run of Branchline postwar AAR boxcars, the botched lettering of the Ertl USRA DS boxcars, and the botched lettering of the pilot model and incorrect trucks on the Broadway Limited PRR Class K7A stock car.
 Ben Hom

Clark,
The drawing appeared on pages 33-34 of the May 1993 Mainline Modeler. It was actually drawn to scale, but two lengthwise dimensions were erroneously inserted (31'-10" truck centers, 42'-10" over strikers) with both dimensions one foot too long.

After Branchline Trains realized the problem (I won't go into the story), to their credit they fixed the problem & subsequent releases of 40'-6" A.A.R. box cars were well done.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Car weight question

David
 

I have something like that... but I have no idea where it came from. Sunshine decal set maybe?

David Thompson


Re: Scratch Building Ladders photos

golden1014
 

Terrific work, Bill!  I used the Tichy rungs on a NYC (Proto) gon some years back and they were very delicate. I broke them off repeatedly when handling and storing the car but they were easy to repair.

I'd be interested to see how you're fixing the ladders to the car side.

John Golden
O'Fallon, IL


Re: diagonal panel roof drawing?

Ed Hawkins
 

On Dec 8, 2014, at 7:35 AM, Benjamin Hom b.hom@att.net [STMFC] wrote:

Clark Cone wrote:
"Ben - you said "Make sure you don't get the drawing that's 41 ft long"... Ha! which drawing is that?"

Whichever one Branchline used. Always verify any drawing, but especially Hundman's. I can think of at least three significant HO scale manufacturers' errors attributed to them - the initial run of Branchline postwar AAR boxcars, the botched lettering of the Ertl USRA DS boxcars, and the botched lettering of the pilot model and incorrect trucks on the Broadway Limited PRR Class K7A stock car.
Ben Hom
Clark,
The drawing appeared on pages 33-34 of the May 1993 Mainline Modeler. It was actually drawn to scale, but two lengthwise dimensions were erroneously inserted (31'-10" truck centers, 42'-10" over strikers) with both dimensions one foot too long.

After Branchline Trains realized the problem (I won't go into the story), to their credit they fixed the problem & subsequent releases of 40'-6" A.A.R. box cars were well done.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Book Review

Dennis Storzek
 

Listers,

I've had a few weeks to page through my copy of SOO LINE Freight
Equipment and Cabooses, by Kenneth J. Soroos, and I'm surprised this
book hasn't had more mention here. For the last several years people
have been asking when there would be a Soo Line "color guide" type
book. This is the Soo Line Historical & Technical Society's answer.

As I recall, early on there was some discussion with the publisher of
the popular color guide series, but the publishers insistence that
all the images in the book be color photos was at odds with the
society's vision of one book that documented the entire freight car
roster, and led the society to go its own way... and the results are
outstanding. The scope of the book is to present every freight car
the Soo Line operated in the last one hundred years... actually just
a bit more as the coverage begins in 1910, when the roster of the
newly leased Wisconsin Central was incorporated into the Soo fleet,
through the consolidation of 1961, when the former DSS&A cars joined
the fleet, and continues to the present day, including all the cars
Canadian Pacific purchased in recent years that were assigned SOO
reporting marks. Amazingly, Ken and the tireless staff at the society
have managed to find photos of every single group of cars, with only
one or two exceptions. Whether the car was built new for the Soo,
acquired through merger, or simply leased, if it wore SOO reporting
marks, it's included.

Of course, beginning at 1910, most of the oldest cars are only shown
in black and white, many as builder's photos, but every effort has
been made to present later color views of cars that survived into the
color film era, and the first color image is only three pages in.
Aside from a couple pages of general history of the railroad, the
text is mostly limited to photo captions, which also include built
dates, builders lot numbers, and citations to both equipment diagram
page numbers, and previous articles published in The SOO, the society
magazine. Because of the book's completeness, it can double as an all
time freight roster. Because of its scope, the Soo fan can trace the
development of the car fleet as a whole over time. For the modeler,
there are numerous in-service photos that show typical weathering patterns.

For the Soo fan, the caboose section is an added bonus, showing both
the road's unique signature wood hacks, and also the lesser known
odd-balls. For the modeler who doesn't specialize in the Soo, this
section still has value, as it illustrates how some surprisingly
divergent designs grew, with time and rebuilding, to have a strong
family appearance. Two pages of work equipment photos suggest how the
modeler can incorporate outdated and archaic equipment into a more
modern roster.

SOO LINE Freight Equipment and Cabooses, with 152 pages filled with more than 550 photos is a bargain at $49.95, and
can be ordered directly from the society store:

http://store.sooline.org/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=367

Dennis Storzek
Dennis Storzek


Re: diagonal panel roof drawing?

Richard Townsend
 

Thanks, Ben. I did find a manufacturer's drawing in a CBC that I will scan and send off to London.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Mon, Dec 8, 2014 3:44 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] diagonal panel roof drawing?

 
Richard Townsend wrote:
"I am sure several drawings of 40' diagonal panel boxcar roofs appeared in Mainline Modeler over the years. It shouldn't too hard to find one. Unless you don't have any MMs there in London. If that's the case, let me know and I'll try to dig one out."

Make sure you don't get the drawing that's 41 ft long.

Ben Hom


Re: [EXTERNAL] Santa Fe wood sided Caswell gon #17492 with lots of gaps in the wood (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Gary;

I have done a number of wooden gondolas (and flat cars) which I distressed, or sometimes created broken boards, gaps, holes in flooring, etc. I used a new pointed blade, which I repeatedly scored the "wood" with to create cracks, gouge out hunks, and also make areas of "dry rot". I also took resin flat kits and sanded down the backs, scribed them, and then dragged the blade over them to create "grain", and to create board detail where there was none.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2014 6:27 PM
To: stmfc
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] Santa Fe wood sided Caswell gon #17492 with lots of gaps in the wood



This is a great picture of Santa Fe gon # 17492 with lots of spaces showing sun light passing through gaps between parallel boards (not to mention some apparently broken boards). I guess that I need to thin my wood sides on some CB&Q gondolas moving up in the assemble the kit queque. Has anyone done this, and, if so, any tips?

http://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/Emil-Albrecht-Photos/1948-Aug-and-Sep-Salt-Lake/i-KbP8BdZ/A

gary laakso
south of Mike Brock



Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: diagonal panel roof drawing?

water.kresse@...
 

Check 1957 ORER supplier advertisement drawing.
 
Al Kresse


From: "Steam Era Frt Car Group"
To: "Steam Era Frt Car Group"
Sent: Monday, December 8, 2014 8:35:26 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] diagonal panel roof drawing?

 

Clark Cone wrote:
"Ben - you said "Make sure you don't get the drawing that's 41 ft long"... Ha! which drawing is that?"

Whichever one Branchline used. Always verify any drawing, but especially Hundman's. I can think of at least three significant HO scale manufacturers' errors attributed to them - the initial run of Branchline postwar AAR boxcars, the botched lettering of the Ertl USRA DS boxcars, and the botched lettering of the pilot model and incorrect trucks on the Broadway Limited PRR Class K7A stock car.

Ben Hom



Re: diagonal panel roof drawing?

Benjamin Hom
 

Clark Cone wrote:
"Ben - you said "Make sure you don't get the drawing that's 41 ft long"... Ha! which drawing is that?"

Whichever one Branchline used. Always verify any drawing, but especially Hundman's. I can think of at least three significant HO scale manufacturers' errors attributed to them - the initial run of Branchline postwar AAR boxcars, the botched lettering of the Ertl USRA DS boxcars, and the botched lettering of the pilot model and incorrect trucks on the Broadway Limited PRR Class K7A stock car.




Ben Hom


Re: diagonal panel roof drawing?

Misc Clark
 

Ben - you said "Make sure you don't get the drawing that's 41 ft long"... Ha! which drawing is that?
Clark Cone

On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 6:44 AM, Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Richard Townsend wrote:
"I am sure several drawings of 40' diagonal panel boxcar roofs appeared in Mainline Modeler over the years. It shouldn't too hard to find one. Unless you don't have any MMs there in London. If that's the case, let me know and I'll try to dig one out."

Make sure you don't get the drawing that's 41 ft long.

Ben Hom



Re: diagonal panel roof drawing?

Benjamin Hom
 

Richard Townsend wrote:
"I am sure several drawings of 40' diagonal panel boxcar roofs appeared in Mainline Modeler over the years. It shouldn't too hard to find one. Unless you don't have any MMs there in London. If that's the case, let me know and I'll try to dig one out."

Make sure you don't get the drawing that's 41 ft long.


Ben Hom


Re: Car weight question

paul.doggett2472@...
 

What we need is a source of decals with just lots of reweigh weights on suitable for the steam era.

Paul Doggett UK


Re: Surviving WP & SN DS box cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Tony

I'm with Andy here. Turning the end 180 degrees is just "reversed". "Inverted" is
more like a mirror image, which is what this looks like to me.

We need a terminology standards committee! :-)

Tim O'


       Thank you, Andy. Small nit: the Dreadnaught ends were NOT inverted, merely recessed so the outermost rib surface was in the plane of the end of the sides. To me, "inverted" means rotated 180 degrees around a vertical axis, so the major ribs face inward instead of outward (as done on some gondola ends). The WP ends were NOT that way, as photos clearly show.

Tony Thompson 


Re: Western Pacific DS box cars

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Tony,

Make that Murphy ends on some WP cars. SN 2301 was the only one of their cars that had the Murphy ends. I have some paper documentation on these cars, including general arrangement drawings, etc. I can send some of this to you in the snail mail if you need it.

Yours Aye,


Garth

On 12/8/14 5:23 AM, Garth Groff wrote:
Tony,

Try: http://www.wplives.org/sn/boxcar.html . The SN wooden-end cars were a separate order from the WP. The SN steel end cars were ex-WP. I wrote a history that concentrated more on the WP cars, but I can't find that right now, and it may have been a victim of the great computer melt-down. :~(

All three groups of these cars were delivered to the WP in 1917 and 1918. The steel ends were applied around 1929-1931. Both inverse Dreadnaught and Youngstown ends were used, and the car numbers that carried them are quite random. There were also two types of roofs.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 12/7/14 8:36 PM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

I have been researching the WP cars in the 16001-18500 series. What I have is this. These were mostly (or all) built by Mt. Vernon, the first 800 in 1917, the balance over the next five to ten years. Originally delivered with steel underframes and inverse corrugated ends, it looks like WP replaced many cars' ends with recessed Dreadnaught ends in later years but kept the double sheathing.
Can anyone offer corrections or more facts? TIA.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history




Re: Western Pacific DS box cars

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Tony,

Try: http://www.wplives.org/sn/boxcar.html . The SN wooden-end cars were a separate order from the WP. The SN steel end cars were ex-WP. I wrote a history that concentrated more on the WP cars, but I can't find that right now, and it may have been a victim of the great computer melt-down. :~(

All three groups of these cars were delivered to the WP in 1917 and 1918. The steel ends were applied around 1929-1931. Both inverse Dreadnaught and Youngstown ends were used, and the car numbers that carried them are quite random. There were also two types of roofs.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 12/7/14 8:36 PM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

I have been researching the WP cars in the 16001-18500 series. What I have is this. These were mostly (or all) built by Mt. Vernon, the first 800 in 1917, the balance over the next five to ten years. Originally delivered with steel underframes and inverse corrugated ends, it looks like WP replaced many cars' ends with recessed Dreadnaught ends in later years but kept the double sheathing.
Can anyone offer corrections or more facts? TIA.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history



Re: Western Pacific DS box cars

gary laakso
 

Photos of 16173 and 17626 are contained in Volume Two of Focus on Freight Cars published by Speedwitch and authored by Richard Hendrickson.
 
gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
 

Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2014 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Western Pacific DS box cars
 
 

Brian Leppert wrote:

 

Tony,  I have a Mt. Vernon catalog from 1921.  It has an illustration (maybe a photo) of WP #16700, built 3-17, with a wood DS end and vertical sliding lumber door.

 
    Thanks, Brian. That may be the source of my knowledge of the builder and year for the first batch of these cars (I just have "Mt. Vernon, 1917").
 
Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
 




Re: Third Attempt to Upload photos failed

Tim O'Connor
 

Bill, why not use your Flickr account instead? Flickr and Yahoo are the
same company, and use EXACTLY the same storage mechanism. Except that with
Flickr (on which you already have an account -- your Yahoo account) you
get 1 GB of free storage, and no one has to approve your photos.

Then just post a link to your Flickr album to STMFC.

Tim O'Connor

Just tried to use Firefox to upload photos with same failed result. I know that photos are held until approved by Mike or Jeff. I that what is actually going on and that the photos will be the Scratch Built Ladder folder at some point?!

Bill Welch


Re: Surviving WP & SN DS box cars

Tony Thompson
 

Andy Carlson wrote:

 
As mentioned earlier, these cars were delivered with wood ends. The Sacramento Northern got some of these cars, also delivered with wood ends. WP in the early 30's started an upgrade program, and replaced the ends with the then currently available Murphy corrugated end. The program continued slowly until the period in which the inverted Dreadnaught end debuted. So later upgraded cars got the more modern end. Both ends utilized polygon gussets to attach to the sides which show along the left and right edges of the car sides.

       Thank you, Andy. Small nit: the Dreadnaught ends were NOT inverted, merely recessed so the outermost rib surface was in the plane of the end of the sides. To me, "inverted" means rotated 180 degrees around a vertical axis, so the major ribs face inward instead of outward (as done on some gondola ends). The WP ends were NOT that way, as photos clearly show.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Surviving WP & SN DS box cars

Andy Carlson
 

Hello-
As mentioned earlier, these cars were delivered with wood ends. The Sacramento Northern got some of these cars, also delivered with wood ends. WP in the early 30's started an upgrade program, and replaced the ends with the then currently available Murphy corrugated end. The program continued slowly until the period in which the inverted Dreadnaught end debuted. So later upgraded cars got the more modern end. Both ends utilized polygon gussets to attach to the sides which show along the left and right edges of the car sides.

Sacramento Northern's cars were never upgraded with steel ends, and kept their wood ends until retired. Many of the WP's upgraded cars were transfered to the SN, so photos exist of SN lettered cars with and without steel ends.

Many of these cars survive. I measured one such survivor at the Niles Canyon Museum in Northern California. Two cars are in the Fillmore & Western's Southern California collection, and luckily with one each of both variations. One of these cars shows in a current TV ad for a finance corp. The folks are riding in a passenger train through orange groves and the fake tunnel portal (Built for the Disney "Escape to Witch Mountain"). The WP DS car is shown broadside in the closing 2 seconds of the commercial. 

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA 35 miles from the F&W




Re: Western Pacific DS box cars

Tony Thompson
 

Eric Neubauer wrote:

 

WP 16001-16800 also 4-17


WP 16801-18300 MtV 11=12-18 some to SN 2301-2328

WP 30001-30200 MtV 1917? similar but XV, to WP 18301-18500 XW

      Thanks, Eric Just what I needed.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history




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