Date   

Re: Western Pacific DS box cars

Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 


WP 16001-16800 also 4-17
WP 16801-18300 MtV 11=12-18 some to SN 2301-2328
WP 30001-30200 MtV 1917? similar but XV, to WP 18301-18500 XW
 
Eric N.
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2014 9:06 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Western Pacific DS box cars

 

Tony,  I have a Mt. Vernon catalog from 1921.  It has an illustration (maybe a photo) of WP #16700, built 3-17, with a wood DS end and vertical sliding lumber door.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


Re: Western Pacific DS box cars

Tony Thompson
 

Brian Leppert wrote:

 

Tony,  I have a Mt. Vernon catalog from 1921.  It has an illustration (maybe a photo) of WP #16700, built 3-17, with a wood DS end and vertical sliding lumber door.


    Thanks, Brian. That may be the source of my knowledge of the builder and year for the first batch of these cars (I just have "Mt. Vernon, 1917").

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: diagonal panel roof drawing?

Richard Townsend
 

I am sure several drawings of 40' diagonal panel boxcar roofs appeared in Mainline Modeler over the years. It shouldn't too hard to find one. Unless you don't have any MMs there in London. If that's the case, let me know and I'll try to dig one out.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: benjaminscanlon@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC
Sent: Sun, Dec 7, 2014 8:12 am
Subject: [STMFC] diagonal panel roof drawing?

 
Hi

I am wondering if anyone has a diagram with a top view, of a diagonal panel 40' boxcar roof, that they could share. I wanted something to do a master from, for TT scale. 

Regards

Ben Scanlon
London, England 


Re: Another UTLX Tank

Douglas Harding
 

Tom look closer, both cars are lettered CAPY 80000, as in 40 tons, not gallonage.

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2014 4:59 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Another UTLX Tank

 

 

You may wish to take a close look at the following tank car as it is
in the same series as the car in question. UTLX 58008 trailing is
marked with an 8000 Capacity. They are sisters. This series is
listed in the October 1953 and is continued in the January 1961 ORER.

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware, 19711

On 12/7/14, water.kresse@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
>
> Could it be 40K pounds capacity?
>
> Al Kresse
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Steam Era Frt Car Group" <STMFC@...>
> To: "Steam Era Frt Car Group" <STMFC@...>
> Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2014 1:21:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [STMFC] Another UTLX Tank
>
>
>
>
> Bruce,
>
> O.K. I screwed up. In Henderson's book he said 57801 was a 4,000 gallon
> tank. Had I dug out my ORER before posting, I would have discovered that
> there were no 4,000 gallon cars in this series, at least when this photo or
> the Jim Sands photo were taken. There were six 6,000 gallon cars in this
> series, mixed with 8,000 and 10,000 gallon cars. I can't see any clear
> gallonage on the car in the Sands photo, and it looks like there is a single
> safety valve (wrapped in plastic?). Therefore, it appears to be a 6,000
> gallon car.
>
> Yours Aye,
>
>
> Garth Groff
>
> On 12/7/14 8:07 AM, 'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC] wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Garth,
>
> 4K? I'm trying to figure out what this is in reference to? It isn't a 4K
> gallon car, it isn't in 4xxx number series... were there 4,000 of them
> built?
>
> Regards
> Bruce Smith
> Auburn, AL
> ________________________________________
> From: STMFC@... [ STMFC@... ]
> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2014 5:11 AM
> To: STMFC@...
> Subject: [STMFC] Another UTLX Tank
>
> Friends,
>
> I just ran across another photo of one of those 4K UTLX tank cars in the
> Jim Sands collection:
> http://jimsands2.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=72875 . The
> photo is dated 1969, and as a bonus, there is a readable number of
> another of these in the photo.
>
> Yours Aye,
>
> Garth Groff
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
> ------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


Re: Western Pacific DS box cars

brianleppert@att.net
 

Tony,  I have a Mt. Vernon catalog from 1921.  It has an illustration (maybe a photo) of WP #16700, built 3-17, with a wood DS end and vertical sliding lumber door.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


Re: Car weight question

Pierre Oliver
 

Now that I can see, the amount of moisture in even "dried " lumber is remarkable.
I've learned a lot from this question.
Thanks to everyone who contributed
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 12/7/2014 8:39 PM, 'William Darnaby' wdarnaby@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

I was told by a former Monon car shop employee that putting a new floor in a box car could increase the car’s weight by 1500 lbs. depending on how deteriorated the original floor was.

 

Bill Darnaby

 




Re: Car weight question

william darnaby
 

I was told by a former Monon car shop employee that putting a new floor in a box car could increase the car’s weight by 1500 lbs. depending on how deteriorated the original floor was.

 

Bill Darnaby

 



Re: NYC early steel boxcars

Eric Lombard
 

Hello Ben,

Here is a service history of these cars. The formatting will, as usual be problematic so I will also send it to your offline.

Cheers,
Eric

This series reconstitutes cars that originated as LOTS 440-B, 464-B, and 465-B (4000 cars) and that were not RBLT with increased IH to 10-0 (1500 cars) or with 6-0 side door (~1000 cars) and so remained for a while in their original configuration and with auxiliary door functional.

 

1940-

1949            RENO as XM unmodified cars out of:

MC 95000-95499, LOT 465-B

MC 96000-97999, LOT 440-B

MC 98000-99499, LOT 464-B

                As well as cars which had auxiliary
                doors temporarily fixed
in
                NYC 189300-190999 (originally from
                MC LOTs above).

1940(4)       7 As 145600-146999. ORER notes as new

                  addition.

1941(1)      25

1942(4)     238

1943(7)     725

1944(7)     894

1945(7)     976

19xx            Doors replaced with Youngstown 5-6-5 as

                originals wear out.

1946(10)   1110

1947(7)    1240

1948(4)    1322 As 145400-146999.

1949(7)    1366

1950            Begin RBLT to 6-0 side door and RENO

                into:

                  29000-30499, LOT 804-B.

                Begin securing auxiliary side door on

~150 and RENO

                  into 183300-190999. Based on ORER analysis.

1950(10)    1238

1951(10)    904

1952(4)     856

1953(1)     751 Cars are 30 years old. 3906 of original 4000 (97.7%) cars

                  in combined MC 95000-99499, 96000-99499

                  (LOT 440-B, LOT 464-B, LOT 465-B) and their

                  rebuilt and/or renumbered derivatives are in service.

1954(7)     283

1955(4)     111

1957(1)       33

1959(10)       5

1960(4)        5

1963(10)       1

1964(7)     ... Not listed in ORER.


On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 5:35 PM, benjaminscanlon@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Hi


I understand that the auto cars that were not rebuilt or otherwise reclassified by the NYC fell into the numbering category NYC 145400-146999.  I'm wondering how long that series persisted for?  The car in the photo here:


Steam Era Freight Cars - Gallery - NYC USRA Design Steel Auto Cars


is particularly interesting because of its kinda 'door and a half' arrangement.  W! ith a bit of luck some TT 8/7 ends are arriving soon.


On ends, the car 102578 in the Hendrickson Prototype Modeler (Jan-Feb '84) article seems to have a 7/7 end, or is that just because the lowest pressing is obscured?  And does this model have a radial roof?


Regards of the season,  


Ben Scanlon

London, England 



Western Pacific DS box cars

Tony Thompson
 

I have been researching the WP cars in the 16001-18500 series. What I have is this. These were mostly (or all) built by Mt. Vernon, the first 800 in 1917, the balance over the next five to ten years. Originally delivered with steel underframes and inverse corrugated ends, it looks like WP replaced many cars' ends with recessed Dreadnaught ends in later years but kept the double sheathing.
Can anyone offer corrections or more facts? TIA.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Another UTLX Tank

Tony Thompson
 

Ben Hom wrote:

 

Important lesson here - DO NOT TRUST JOHN HENDERSON'S CAPTIONS IN THE CLASSIC FREIGHT CAR SERIES. The books are nice collections of photos, but the captions are poorly researched and contain some howlers.


     Quite right. Another one of those books in which you browse each photo while keeping a thumb over the caption. Many captions are partly wrong; a number, as Ben says, total howlers.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Another UTLX Tank

Benjamin Hom
 

Garth Groff wrote:


"O.K. I screwed up. In Henderson's book he said 57801 was a 4,000 gallon tank. Had I dug out my ORER before posting, I would have discovered that there were no 4,000 gallon cars in this series, at least when this photo or the Jim Sands photo were taken."

Important lesson here - DO NOT TRUST JOHN HENDERSON'S CAPTIONS IN THE CLASSIC FREIGHT CAR SERIES. The books are nice collections of photos, but the captions are poorly researched and contain some howlers.


Ben Hom


NYC early steel boxcars

Benjamin Scanlon
 

Hi


I understand that the auto cars that were not rebuilt or otherwise reclassified by the NYC fell into the numbering category NYC 145400-146999.  I'm wondering how long that series persisted for?  The car in the photo here:


Steam Era Freight Cars - Gallery - NYC USRA Design Steel Auto Cars


is particularly interesting because of its kinda 'door and a half' arrangement.  With a bit of luck some TT 8/7 ends are arriving soon.


On ends, the car 102578 in the Hendrickson Prototype Modeler (Jan-Feb '84) article seems to have a 7/7 end, or is that just because the lowest pressing is obscured?  And does this model have a radial roof?


Regards of the season,  


Ben Scanlon

London, England 


Santa Fe wood sided Caswell gon #17492 with lots of gaps in the wood

gary laakso
 

This is a great picture of Santa Fe gon # 17492 with lots of spaces showing sun light passing through gaps between parallel boards (not to mention some apparently broken boards).  I guess that I need to thin my wood sides on some CB&Q gondolas moving up in the assemble the kit queque.  Has anyone done this, and, if so, any tips? 
 
 
gary laakso
south of Mike Brock


Scratch Building Ladders photos

Bill Welch
 

Well the joke is on me as apparently all 3 of my attempts worked but because photos require permission I saw a message that the folder was empty. Look for Scratch Built Ladders


You will see three different ladders. One example are ladders I made for my two SAL Vents to match exactly the spacing of the grabs on the sides that form the side ladders where I used Tichy ladder rungs. A second photo shows a pair of ladders made for a model of a MILW DD 40-ft car from "Rib Side Cars." The third photo shows ladders for a project that I cannot remember.


Here is my attempt to describe what I do.


I all cases I begin by creating 4-5 pair of Stiles using something like 4x6 styrene strip to glue the stiles to well above and below their actual terminus. I call these the "Connecting Strips." I usually use .020 x .030 for the stiles and glue the first on down. I have already used styrene to make a template the exact width of the ladder I need. I then put the template in place to keep the next stile square and parallel and glue the new stile to the two Connecting Strips, then squeeze everything with tweezers to make sure the new stile is snug against the template. I am using Testors BTW. I have a another Template, this one narrower that I use to create between the first pair of new stiles and the next pair. Then I repeat until I have four pair of stile, maybe five if my mood tells me I need a spare. I let this assembly cure over night.


Next I use masking tape to glue the assembly down and having determined the rung spacing, I mark carefully one pair of stiles with an .005 pen, then use these marks and a ruler to mark the rest of the stile. Then it is just a matter of gluing down lengths of .010 styrene rod to the stiles and letting it cure, the cutting everything apart and to length.


I don't do this on every model but on ones I want to be the best I can do, I find it satisfying to make my own ladders. This will be part of my presentation at THE Beach where I can make everything clearer.


Bill Welch

 


Re: Another UTLX Tank

Thomas Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

You may wish to take a close look at the following tank car as it is
in the same series as the car in question. UTLX 58008 trailing is
marked with an 8000 Capacity. They are sisters. This series is
listed in the October 1953 and is continued in the January 1961 ORER.

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware, 19711

On 12/7/14, water.kresse@comcast.net [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Could it be 40K pounds capacity?

Al Kresse
----- Original Message -----

From: "Steam Era Frt Car Group" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
To: "Steam Era Frt Car Group" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2014 1:21:10 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Another UTLX Tank




Bruce,

O.K. I screwed up. In Henderson's book he said 57801 was a 4,000 gallon
tank. Had I dug out my ORER before posting, I would have discovered that
there were no 4,000 gallon cars in this series, at least when this photo or
the Jim Sands photo were taken. There were six 6,000 gallon cars in this
series, mixed with 8,000 and 10,000 gallon cars. I can't see any clear
gallonage on the car in the Sands photo, and it looks like there is a single
safety valve (wrapped in plastic?). Therefore, it appears to be a 6,000
gallon car.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 12/7/14 8:07 AM, 'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@auburn.edu [STMFC] wrote:





Garth,

4K? I'm trying to figure out what this is in reference to? It isn't a 4K
gallon car, it isn't in 4xxx number series... were there 4,000 of them
built?

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
________________________________________
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [ STMFC@yahoogroups.com ]
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2014 5:11 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Another UTLX Tank

Friends,

I just ran across another photo of one of those 4K UTLX tank cars in the
Jim Sands collection:
http://jimsands2.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=72875 . The
photo is dated 1969, and as a bonus, there is a readable number of
another of these in the photo.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff

------------------------------------
Posted by: Garth Groff <sarahsan@embarqmail.com>
------------------------------------

------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links










DVD set with lots of steam era freight cars - RAILROADS - TRACKS ACROSS AMERICA

Steven D Johnson
 

Last week, my wife picked up this little gem of a two DVD set for me at a Michael’s craft store here in Nashville.  It was $5.99 and a bin with a bunch of other DVDs of various TV shows, etc.  I saw the various “foreign” locomotive photos on the cover and was at once skeptical of the content, thinking these were just “generic” railroad DVDs, but then I read the titles of the features.  I recognized some as AAR publicity films, and others as made by railroads, such as SP, DRG&W, N&W, NYC, NKP, Rock Island and New Haven. 

 

There are 36 titles on these DVDs, with running time of 12 hours and 36 minutes, in color and black & white.  I have only had time to watch a few minutes each of about a third of the titles, but have so far seen a wealth of STEAM ERA FREIGHT CARS, not to mention scenes of loading and unloading said cars, footage of industries, automobiles, trucks, etc. along with steam and diesel locomotives, passenger cars, terminals, structures and right-of-way scenes. 

 

These DVDs are put out by Mill Creek Entertainment.  Here’s the link to the sets on their website:

 

Standard packaging:

 

http://www.millcreekent.com/railroads-tracks-across-america.html

 

Collector’s tin:

 

http://www.millcreekent.com/railroads-tracks-across-america-collector-s-tin.html

 

 

These sets can also be found on eBay.  While you could probably find these films on YouTube or elsewhere on the internet, here they are together.  Highly recommended, if for nothing else than all the STEAM ERA FREIGHT CARS to be seen!

 

Steve Johnson

 

 

Description and title list from their website:

 

 

A Timeless Journey Riding the Rails!

This comprehensive documentary collection is composed of 36 fascinating features chronicling the development of the railroad industry from the first transcontinental line, freight and Pullman cars, to modern diesel engines. See the people and machines that built the Tracks Across America which is sure to please train enthusiasts old and new.

Including in-depth features chronicling:
Steam Trains
Passenger Trains
Freight Trains
The Nickel Plate Railroad
And much much more!

All Aboard for a Coast-to-Coast Rail Adventure!

Ride along with this nostalgic collection that takes you to a romantic place where steam rises from the dense population centers in the East to the snow-peaked mountains of the West. Go back to the days when trains brought loved ones home to small towns where the American railroad network is still a vital part of their transportation system today. Indeed, it moves more goods than the rest of the world's rails combined. Discover this and other fun facts about an industry that shaped American culture and its economy.

Disc 1
Wheels of Progress
A Great Railroad at Work
Desert Empire
The Big Train
New Horizons
Troop Train
The Passenger Train
This is My Railroad
At this Moment
Big Trains Rolling
Mainline USA
Beef Rings the Bell
Safe Roads
3rd Ave El
Operation Fast Freight
The Modern Coal Burning
Steam Locomotive
Flight of the Century

Disc 2
The Steam Locomotive
Railroads and Westward Expansion: 1845-1865
The Nickel Plate Story
End of an Era
The California Zephyr
Return of the General
The Freight Train
Railroad Man
The Railroad Story
Song of the Pioneer
Rolling the Freight
Snow on the Run
The Power behind the Nation
Clear Track Ahead!
A Railroad at Work
Last of the Giants
Progress on the Rails
Wheels of Steel
Opening a New Frontier


Re: Lancaster and Chester 829

Richard Dermody <ddermody@...>
 

Guys,

I think what got missed here was that Bill's "MIM" reference appeared to be to Intermountain and their ATSF "RR" reefer ends. Don't know about dimensions, but visually they seem pretty close to those on the L&C boxcar.

Dick


On Dec 7, 2014, at 3:14 PM, tgregmrtn@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

Arved,
 
I will have to check Richard's masters for the Westrails parts, I have one that is similar, but with one too many lower ribs that could be modified. 
 
The Lancaster and Chester hosted a lot of second hand cars in this paint scheme.
 
Greg Martin
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 
In a message dated 12/6/2014 9:47:09 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:
And they are not listed in the January 1953 ORER. They were probably acquired around that 1955 date.

Whew! I was tempted to model it. It's a snazzy paint scheme on a vintage car. One less for the workbench backlog! LOL

Thanks everyone!

Arved Grass
Arved_Grass@... or Arved@...
Fleming Island, Florida



Re: Car weight question

John Barry
 

Pierre,

Unfortunately, I do not have your answer, but I strongly suspect that the three different trucks had different average weights.  As others have pointed out, the tariff is based on weight for dry goods and the tare weight of a car is key to charging for the net of a given shipment.  Section 15 of my 1940 Car Builder's Cyclopedia is rife with claims of lighter trucks to permit greater carrying capacity.  However, it is woefully short of specific weights.  

Standardized parts and steel car construction contributed to a decrease in car to car weight variance.  But a given configuration would still vary car to car as more or fewer rivets were used.  A doubler plate to repair a botched rivet job, or any number of variables could add a few ounces to several hundred pounds.  I strongly suspect that this variability was small on a 1940's steel car compared to a 1920 composite car, which in turn should have been less variable than a wooden car.  The basic parts became more uniform over time with smaller new empty weight ranges.  One thing that could vary between cars identically assembled was paint.  Each coat added a finite amount of weight to the car, so varnished vs bare linings could result in a weight variance.  And a pound or two either way on a car that weighs in near a multiple of 50 pounds will push it higher or lower when you are rounding to the closest 100 pounds.  The rules allowed you to not reweigh the car if repairs brought the new weight was within 300 pounds of the old weight.  

If someone could answer your original question and give us the average truck weight by type, and you could find a photo or car card listing the empty weight of a car with that configuration, the others SHOULD average that weight plus or minus the difference between truck weights, assuming other configuration items such as running boards, brake wheels, etc. were the same.  


 
John Barry

ATSF North Bay Lines
Golden Gates & Fast Freights

707-490-9696

PO Box 44736
Washington, DC 20026-4736


From: "Pierre Oliver pierre.oliver@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2014 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Car weight question

 
Or just a little too quick with snappy responses? :-)
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 07/12/2014 1:40 PM, cepropst@q.com [STMFC] wrote:
 
I understand way you wanted to know Pierre. Guess I was taken to literally?
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa




Re: Lancaster and Chester 829

Greg Martin
 

Arved,
 
I will have to check Richard's masters for the Westrails parts, I have one that is similar, but with one too many lower ribs that could be modified. 
 
The Lancaster and Chester hosted a lot of second hand cars in this paint scheme.
 
Greg Martin
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 

In a message dated 12/6/2014 9:47:09 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:
And they are not listed in the January 1953 ORER. They were probably acquired around that 1955 date.

Whew! I was tempted to model it. It's a snazzy paint scheme on a vintage car. One less for the workbench backlog! LOL

Thanks everyone!

Arved Grass
Arved_Grass@... or Arved@...
Fleming Island, Florida


Mather 42' Reefer Question

Gene Deimling
 

List members
I am searching for information on the appearance of the roof and running board attachment of the Mather 42' reefers built in the early '50s.    I understand it was flat steel as opposed to a raised panel design.

Thanks for your help
Gene

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