Date   

Re: UP Freight Car Red

Tony Thompson
 

Arved Grass wrote:

 

Sorry if this has been asked in the past, but it's an old issue that's been bothering me. Star Brands paint lists their STR-30 paint as S.P./U.P. freight car red. I've never considered the U.P. and S.P. colors the same . . .


     Depends on era, Arved. They were certainly the same in the Harriman era, and appear to have remained the same through the 1930s, until UP adopted a much redder, even orange-tinged, color. After that, no, they were certainly not the same. 
      As a passing comment, I can tell you from personal examination of SP color drift panels, that the "mineral" color did not change significantly from 1920 to 1960, and even the 1994 panel I have is only very slightly different. Some have claimed that after World War II, SP went to a richer, deeper color, but the drift panels I have seen do not bear that out.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: UTLX tank car

Brian Carlson
 

Garth, read Bruce's email again. He didn't say what you think he said 
BrianCarlson 


On Dec 5, 2014, at 4:31 PM, Garth Groff sarahsan@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Charlie,

By now you've seen Bruce's comment that this is a Van Dyke tank car. 


Car weight question

Pierre Oliver
 

I'm looking at a certain class of boxcar that was built with 3 different styles of trucks through it's series. ASF A-3, Sullin and Buckeye trucks.
Would there have been enough difference in the weight of the different trucks to have the different build orders show different "Light weight" stencils on the cars?
-- 
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com


Re: UTLX tank car

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Charlie,

By now you've seen Bruce's comment that this is a Van Dyke tank car. There is a very good color shot of one of these on page 28 of John Henderson's CLASSIC FREIGHT CARS vol. 2. The car in the photo is a 4,000 gallon car numbered 57400-59119, built in 1916, and still going strong in 1969.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 12/5/14 12:53 PM, 'Charlie Morrill' badlands@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

There is a high walkway UTLX tank car in this photo:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Negative-Southern-Pacific-Railroad-Steam-Locomotive-2769-Lake-Tahoe-Branch-/271694384724?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f423f4e54

I'm guessing an 8000 gal capacity. Note the single top-of-dome relief valve
instead of the side relief valve and the bolted cover plate on the tank end.
Any idea of the number series?

BTW To help date the photo, this branch line was abandoned Nov. 1943.

Charlie



UP Freight Car Red

arved_grass
 

Sorry if this has been asked in the past, but it's an old issue that's been bothering me. Star Brands paint lists their STR-30 paint as S.P./U.P. freight car red. I've never considered the U.P. and S.P. colors the same:

UP 126281:

http://lariverrailroads.com/freight_car/up126281.jpg

SP 210931:
http://lariverrailroads.com/freight_car/sp210931.jpg

Assuming I'm right (boy, is that a big assumption!), what's the scoop? Is there a better match for UP freight car red in the Star Brand/Tru-Color paint lineup?

Arved Grass
Arved_Grass@yahoo.com or Arved@I-Do-Photography.com
Fleming Island, Florida


Re: Accurail USRA hopper

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Clark,

Users of coal need certain thermal properties, whether for industrial or power plants, steam boilers, or smelting. This often this means that coal is blended to get the exact properties needed. When I was in the Coast Guard I managed to get a Conrail vice-president and myself a tour of the N&W loading facilities at Norfolk. I was astounded to learn that each hopper car's load was graded by thermal level, sulfur content, granular size, and probably ash type. When a ship arrived, cuts of various types were pulled and dumped into each hold to blend the coal to the buyer's specifications. So maybe those NYC hoppers were on their way to "spike" some lower grade mid-western bituminous or lignite (Iowa used to produce a lot of low-thermal "brown" lignite).

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 12/5/14 12:27 PM, Misc Clark clark.cone4@... [STMFC] wrote:
 
Curious, what are the chances of a Q car ending up on the east coast? Was the midwest bituminous a competitor of the east coast bituminous thus resulting in local service (localized regionally as opposed to national distribution) only so the Q cars would not cross the Mississippi? How is it that NYC cars ended up in Iowa? Empties to be loaded with that bituminous or loaded with east coast bituminous or, God forbid, anthracite...?
Clark Cone
SPF - Elmira Branch - coal conduit



Re: Rivet Counter and truss rod counter!

Nolan Hinshaw
 

On Dec 5, 2014, at 4:12 AM, Howard R Garner cascaderail@bellsouth.net [STMFC] wrote:

Count truss rods? Every day.

One! One truss rod!
Two! Two truss rods!
--
"Not only is it not right, it's not even wrong!"
From Wolfgang Pauli, perpetrator of the Pauli Exclusion Principle


Re: Accurail USRA hopper

David
 

Midwest coal tended to be lower quality than good Appalachian bituminous, so it would not have been common to send it east. However, hoppers did tend to be confiscated by connecting roads to alleviate their own car shortages, so it's not impossible for the occasional rogue car to show up in unexpected places.

Per NYC, keep in mind that it did run through the same Illinois-Indiana coal territory as Burlington, IC, C&EI, C&NW, etc.

David Thompson


Re: UTLX tank car

Charles Morrill
 

Bruce,
You are correct.  I’ve since located my copy of the Speedwitch tank car manual and they describe that as a mid-height walkway.
 
Charlie

Sent: Friday, December 05, 2014 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] UTLX tank car
 


Charlie,
 
I don’t think that it is really appropriate to call this a “high walkway” tank car.  True high walkway cars had the walkway up around where the hand rail is.  This car is appears to be a UTLX Type X design (based on the absence of a lip at the bottom of the tank which would indicate a type V, Van Dyke frames design).  If there is only a single relief valve, then the capacity must be 6,000 gallons or less.  However, there may be a second valve at the opposite end of the dome, which is obscured.
 

Regards

Bruce

 

Bruce F. Smith           

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."


 
 


Re: UTLX tank car

Bruce Smith
 

Charlie,

I don’t think that it is really appropriate to call this a “high walkway” tank car.  True high walkway cars had the walkway up around where the hand rail is.  This car is appears to be a UTLX Type X design (based on the absence of a lip at the bottom of the tank which would indicate a type V, Van Dyke frames design).  If there is only a single relief valve, then the capacity must be 6,000 gallons or less.  However, there may be a second valve at the opposite end of the dome, which is obscured.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Dec 5, 2014, at 11:53 AM, 'Charlie Morrill' badlands@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

There is a high walkway UTLX tank car in this photo:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Negative-Southern-Pacific-Railroad-Steam-Locomotive-2769-Lake-Tahoe-Branch-/271694384724?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f423f4e54

I'm guessing an 8000 gal capacity.  Note the single top-of-dome relief valve
instead of the side relief valve and the bolted cover plate on the tank end.
Any idea of the number series?

BTW To help date the photo, this branch line was abandoned Nov. 1943.

Charlie 


UTLX tank car

Charles Morrill
 

There is a high walkway UTLX tank car in this photo:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Negative-Southern-Pacific-Railroad-Steam-Locomotive-2769-Lake-Tahoe-Branch-/271694384724?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f423f4e54

I'm guessing an 8000 gal capacity. Note the single top-of-dome relief valve instead of the side relief valve and the bolted cover plate on the tank end. Any idea of the number series?

BTW To help date the photo, this branch line was abandoned Nov. 1943.

Charlie


Re: Accurail USRA hopper

Misc Clark
 

Curious, what are the chances of a Q car ending up on the east coast? Was the midwest bituminous a competitor of the east coast bituminous thus resulting in local service (localized regionally as opposed to national distribution) only so the Q cars would not cross the Mississippi? How is it that NYC cars ended up in Iowa? Empties to be loaded with that bituminous or loaded with east coast bituminous or, God forbid, anthracite...?
Clark Cone
SPF - Elmira Branch - coal conduit

On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:21 PM, Bill Hirt whirt@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Alex,

All of the CB&Q cars were 55 ton cars.  The ORER lists the SLSF series as 55 ton cars, C&O, IC and N&W as 50 ton cars, MP series 56901-57899 70 ton cars, MP series 58750-60949 as 55 ton cars, and the L&N cars a mix of 50 and 55 ton cars.

The IC cars in model form were Sunshine Models Kit #75.1.

Bill Hirt

On 12/4/2014 1:25 PM, Alex Schneider aschneiderjr@... [STMFC] wrote:



Re: Rivet Counter

golden1014
 

Quoting Richard: "The rivet counting will continue!"


Actually rivet counting is important for a lot of reasons I don't need to explain here.  If rivets aren't important, then are weld lines, or panel lines or panel spacing, or dimensions, or anything else?   One of the best examples I can explain is applying accurately-scaled decals on a car that doesn't have rivets in the right place, or panel lines in the wrong place, and so forth.  They won't fit and your model might not look right.  


Accuracy is important and the market shows it.  Look at all the new locomotive and freight car manufacturers out there.  They're thriving in a time when money is pretty tight, because they're taking the time to get it right. 


John Golden

O'Fallon, IL




Re: UP Freight Car Red

Armand Premo
 

Arved,Ask Mike Brock. Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2014 4:29 PM
Subject: [STMFC] UP Freight Car Red

 

Sorry if this has been asked in the past, but it's an old issue that's been bothering me. Star Brands paint lists their STR-30 paint as S.P./U.P. freight car red. I've never considered the U.P. and S.P. colors the same:

UP 126281:

http://lariverrailroads.com/freight_car/up126281.jpg

SP 210931:
http://lariverrailroads.com/freight_car/sp210931.jpg

Assuming I'm right (boy, is that a big assumption!), what's the scoop? Is there a better match for UP freight car red in the Star Brand/Tru-Color paint lineup?

Arved Grass
Arved_Grass@... or Arved@...
Fleming Island, Florida


Re: the riddel of the rivets, was MDC 40-ft SD & DD steel boxcar

Eric Neubauer <eaneubauer@...>
 


If you're making a model, counting rivets is a matter of personal preference.
If you're trying to project part of the car which is not visible (e.g. interior hopper bracing), counting rivets can help.
If you're doing historical research, sometimes counting rivets is the only option left when all else fails.
 
The latter applies to a current project where whether the top of the side posts is cut square and open or has is closed with a 3" taper speaks volumes when even though the official records are incomplete. I'm only responsible for finding a detail that does the job. Reality is responsible for how visible or invisible it is. Knowing that it is significant, I'd probably make an effort to get it right on a model as long as it wasn't too much trouble.
 
Eric N.


Re: Rivet Counter and truss rod counter!

Clark Propst
 

Clark Propst, I am sure joins me, in the subsection of Rivet Counters devoted to counting truss rods.

Gary Laakso
 
Ha, ha...I’m building an enginehouse now. Never want to see another truss rod.
 
On a related subject, a guy at work was into Civil war re-enacting. I asked if he ever went out east to the big battles with lots of guys. I thought that would be the thing to do. (Like going to a major RPM meet) He said he stayed away from those because of the “Stitch Nazis”. Their equivalent of “Rivet counters” I guess.
Obviously he was playing with their Lionel type crowd. Never talked to him about it again...

Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: the riddel of the rivets, was MDC 40-ft SD & DD steel boxcar

tyesac@...
 

I once gave a clinic that was subtitled "rivets count/count rivets!".  The reason being was that the clinic showed how to kitbash a car (a heavyweight diner) using  an existing plastic car.  At the time published plans were not available, however, I did have color photographs of both sides of the car taken on the same day.   The rivets on the prototype were basically my "scale ruler".   Later on, a published floor plan was avaialble, and I found out I was within 4" over all length on a 82' car.  
 
There are a lot of freight cars that have nothing but a general arrangement drawing or lettering diagram, but did get photographed, so, you're forced to count rivets to get an accurate model.  That is if the difference between a 10'-0" IH vs a 10'-6" car matters, which covers everyone on this list.
 
Otherwise, I think we'd still be running nothing more faithful to the prototype than three rail 027 toy trains with molded on grab irons that resemble scale book shelves.
 
Tom Casey   
and panel counters, and corrugation counters, and rivet row counters, and
board counters . . . . . i.e. modelers

Rob Kirkham

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 8:59 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: the riddel of the rivets, was MDC 40-ft SD & DD
steel boxcar

Jim Betz asks:
P.S. Is there a yahoo group for "Rivet Counters"?

Why yes, it is called "The Steam Era Freight Car List". Perfect place for
rivet counters!

Regards
Bruce Smith
Happily counting rivets in Auburn, AL




-----Original Message-----
From: Robert rdkirkham@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC
Sent: Fri, Dec 5, 2014 12:31 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: the riddel of the rivets, was MDC 40-ft SD & DD steel boxcar

 
and panel counters, and corrugation counters, and rivet row counters, and
board counters . . . . . i.e. modelers

Rob Kirkham

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 8:59 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: the riddel of the rivets, was MDC 40-ft SD & DD
steel boxcar

Jim Betz asks:
P.S. Is there a yahoo group for "Rivet Counters"?

Why yes, it is called "The Steam Era Freight Car List". Perfect place for
rivet counters!

Regards
Bruce Smith
Happily counting rivets in Auburn, AL

------------------------------------
Posted by: "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@...>
------------------------------------


Re: Boxcar End: What Kind?

Eric Lombard
 

Good Morning,
That is very likely a remnant of ATSF 35802-36501, BX-Z, built by Haskell & Barker in 1915. These were the first ATSF box cars with all-steel ends. There are general arrangement drawings and a nice photo in Railway Mech. Eng., Jan. 1916, Vol. 60, No. 2; p58. Also, Dobyne's "Santa Fe Boxcars 1869-1953 in the Santa Fe Railway Rolling Stock Reference Series - Volume Four,  pages 66, 217, 224, 242, provide more information about these cars.

The only other cars with these unique ends that wrap to the sides under the safety appliances that are known to me are AA 6069, 6077 also built by H&B, also 1915, as replacements into AA 6300-6399

Anyone know of any others?

On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 11:51 PM, jon miller atsfus@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

On 12/4/2014 9:37 PM, thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC] wrote:
Is there enough detail in the photo on the link below for someone to identify the type of end this is?

    Just a quick hip shot without checking books and old memory but Bx-Z or related???????

--

Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS



Re: Rivet Counter and truss rod counter!

earlyrail
 

Clark Propst, I am sure joins me, in the subsection of Rivet Counters devoted to counting truss rods.

Gary �I love doing stiles� Laakso
south of Mike Brock
Count truss rods? Every day.
99% of my cars have truss rods.
And most have the correct number of them in the correct locations, including the ends.

Howard (hanging out in 1905) Garner


Re: the riddel of the rivets, was MDC 40-ft SD & DD steel boxcar

Robert kirkham
 

and panel counters, and corrugation counters, and rivet row counters, and board counters . . . . . i.e. modelers

Rob Kirkham

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@auburn.edu [STMFC]
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 8:59 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: the riddel of the rivets, was MDC 40-ft SD & DD steel boxcar

Jim Betz asks:
P.S. Is there a yahoo group for "Rivet Counters"?

Why yes, it is called "The Steam Era Freight Car List". Perfect place for rivet counters!

Regards
Bruce Smith
Happily counting rivets in Auburn, AL

------------------------------------
Posted by: "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@auburn.edu>
------------------------------------

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