Date   
Re: Stock Car Shipments in 1953

Douglas Harding
 

Dennis, I suspect you are correct. I had forgotten about "feeders." What you
describe is accurate. Lot of calves coming from the western grass lands to
small rural areas, local farmers bought a car load or two to feed out, ie
what they call value added product in today's business world.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

Re: Stock Car Shipments in 1953

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dennis S. wrote:
Keep in mind, no one in the US likes grass fed beef, unless they grew up out west.
Certain true in the period of this list, but . . . times are changing, Dennis. As some consumers become interested in more local foods, and as the energy and other costs of corn feeding become apparent, range-fed beef is enjoying a nice comeback. And visiting a feedlot is not unlike watching sausage being made.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Re: Stock Car Shipments in 1953

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Douglas Harding" <doug.harding@...> wrote:

Charles thanks for posting the post-war stock car shipments. Interesting
that Illinois is the leader for carloads, both originator as well as
termination. Termination I can see, due to the large slaughter operations
still in existence in Chicago in 1953. But the origination as me wondering.
As almost all railroads coming into Chicago from the "west" had feed and
rest stations in the western suburbs, which included facilities to handle
livestock for extended time to "fatten" them up after their lengthy trip, I
am wondering if some of these loadings were simple animals that had arrived
a week earlier from western states. If the animals were off loaded longer
than the required 5 hrs (8hrs if confined for 36 hrs), ie while a shipper
waited for higher prices, when reloaded were they counted as a new load?



Doug Harding
Doug,

I suspect the originations are "feeder" cattle. Yearlings (I think) that are shipped into Illinois from the west in the spring, and fattened on corn through the summer, then sold for slaughter in the fall. The business still continues; there is a one truck stock transit company in Big Rock who is busy in the spring. One of the ladies who used to work here had a story about a wayward relative who was a stock buyer; one year he went out west, and disappeared, never to return. As the story went, his wife took a trip out west years later and found him; he had a whole second family.

There was a packing plant in Elburn years ago, but the C&NW also maintained a small ten pen stockyard; the packing plant eventually closed their yard and leased pens from the C$NW. It was typical for stock to arrive by rail, consigned to local farmers who trucked them out to their land for the summer, then trucked them back to the packing plant, or to Chicago if they felt they could get a better price. Before the days of long distance trucking, that last fifty mile trip was likely by rail.

Keep in mind, no one in the US likes grass fed beef, unless they grew up out west. In order to get corn fed beef, you needed to ship the cattle east of Omaha for fattening. Now that they irrigate eastern Colorado for corn, they can fatten beef out west. Montfort, in Greely, is reputed to be the world's largest feedlot, but this post-dates the 1960 cut-off of this list.


Dennis

Re: Stock cars on the UP in Wyoming...1949

Mikebrock
 

Dave Evans asks:

"In the spring time, could this be movement into the higher elevations for grazing - possibly on national forest land - at least for the cattle and sheep? Could these be cows and ewes for spring births?"

No. The western destinations are either Ogden or points west and southwest of there. When written in the book, the stock was taken from Denver. No idea how it got to Denver.

Mike Brock

Re: C&O box car for sale

Bill Welch
 

I am not Clark but given his description of add-on parts it is 1/87.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., oscale48@... wrote:

Is this an HO Model?
Rich Yoder

----- Original Message -----
From: cepropst@...
To: "STMFC" <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2013 8:08:27 PM
Subject: [STMFC] C&O box car for sale

I have a Des Plaines Hobbies C&O Viking roofed Red Caboose box car renumbered 5483. It has Keith Retterer three panel doors and Duco ends. Photo on request.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Stock Car Shipments in 1953

Douglas Harding
 

Charles thanks for posting the post-war stock car shipments. Interesting
that Illinois is the leader for carloads, both originator as well as
termination. Termination I can see, due to the large slaughter operations
still in existence in Chicago in 1953. But the origination as me wondering.
As almost all railroads coming into Chicago from the "west" had feed and
rest stations in the western suburbs, which included facilities to handle
livestock for extended time to "fatten" them up after their lengthy trip, I
am wondering if some of these loadings were simple animals that had arrived
a week earlier from western states. If the animals were off loaded longer
than the required 5 hrs (8hrs if confined for 36 hrs), ie while a shipper
waited for higher prices, when reloaded were they counted as a new load?



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

Re: Freight Car Trucks Article Published

davesnyder59
 

Thanks Mr. Hendrickson. My light bulb finally came on after many years of trying to decipher the meaning of L,T, and U. I kept trying to fathom it in the frontal plane, instead of cross section. Gee I hope my illumination is correct! Unless I'm incorrect and then I'm lost again. This is a wonderful learning experience for me, great presentation!

Dave Snyder
Louisville, Ky.

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

Some STMFC members have seen the clinic I've presented at Naperville, Cocoa Beach, and other meetings covering prototype freight car trucks from 1900 to about 1960. An expanded version of that clinic has now been published in the May issue of the on-line magazine Model Railroad Hobbyist, which came out this morning. It is extensively illustrated and will, I think, answer most of the questions modelers are likely to have about plain journal trucks. It also includes the web address for a companion article on HO scale freight car trucks, which I will update from time to time as new trucks come on the market. Take a look at the latest issue of MRH and, if you have questions or comments, let me know.

Richard Hendrickson




Re: Stock cars on the UP in Wyoming...1949

devansprr
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Mike Brock" <brockm@...> wrote:

I did a quick look at the loaded stock cars running between Laramie and
Rawlins, WY, in March/April 1949. The results are a bit surprising.

1. Of the 34 frt trains listed there were 10 trains carrying loaded stock
cars.

2. All but one train is westbound.

3. There were 106 loaded stock cars located in 10 trains.

4. 34 stock cars were located in one train, 42 in another and 22 in another.

5. 8 cars were foreign, 98 were UP.

6.Foreign cars were 2 CB&Q, 1 CGW, 1 SP, 3 unknown [ #324, 325, 325 ] appear
to have a 3 letter name beginning with "C", and 1 B&O.

7. Loads were 65 cattle, 15 hogs, 24 sheep, 2 horses.

8. Even though, in 1953, Omaha was the largest cattle market in the world
[ according to a 1953 TV documentary Omaha: Rail Metropolis On The Plains
produced by Mark I Video and, it contains a starting sequence with a 4-12-2
with actual sound ], all but one load is WESTBOUND.

9. The eastbound car is the B&O.

Mike Brock
Mike,

In the spring time, could this be movement into the higher elevations for grazing - possibly on national forest land - at least for the cattle and sheep? Could these be cows and ewes for spring births?

Hogs make sense for consumption - today I think most hogs are raised close to the supply of grain - don't know about '49. Has there ever been large scale hog raising west of the Rockies and east of the Sierras?

Dave Evans

Re: C&O box car for sale

Rich Yoder
 

Is this an HO Model?
Rich Yoder

----- Original Message -----
From: cepropst@q.com
To: "STMFC" <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2013 8:08:27 PM
Subject: [STMFC] C&O box car for sale

I have a Des Plaines Hobbies C&O Viking roofed Red Caboose box car renumbered 5483. It has Keith Retterer three panel doors and Duco ends. Photo on request.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Post War Stock Cars

Tom Vanwormer
 

Mark,
at the same period, 1880s, the private owner stock car fleet grew to its
largest. Many of these private owner cars were equipped with extra hay
racks and water tanks for the "in car" feeding and watering of the
livestock with a goal of attempting to maintain the weight of the
livestock during transit from the western US to the midwest feedpens
surrounding Omaha, Denver, Chicago and Kansas City.

During this period the Colorado Midland had a major spring time influx
of cattle from Texas, New Mexico, Idaho, Old Mexico, Arizona going to
the high pastures in the rockies and then shipment to the stockyards in
Denver or the feedlots in the Midwest. It wasn't until after the snow
blockade of 1899 that the ranchers in the high country realized they
could feed the livestock for two summers and get much more money for
their efforts.

Tom VanWormer
Monument CO

Anthony Thompson wrote:



Mark Rickert wrote:
That's why the invented the reefer. The packers could Slaughter the
meat out west and just ship the valuable parts and no 28 hour rule to
worry about. It seemed the IC stock car fleet dropped about as fast if
not faster than the steam locomotive fleet as the loading switched off
"on the hoof" to "on the hook".

Good summary, Mark, except this happened in the 1880s, led by Gustavus
Swift and his colleagues.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail,
thompson@... <mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>
Publishers of books on railroad history

Re: Freight Car Trucks Article Published

Joe Bower <jnbower1@...>
 

Hello Richard.



I caught the MRH May issue today, before the ink was dry, and selected your
treatise on Freight Car Trucks 1900-1960 first thing. I look for your posts
on STMFC, and appreciate the tremendous contribution you're making to the
model railroad hobby,.and also setting straight when there is
misinformation. This article is by far the most complete, detailed
presentation on the subject, and the illustrations superb. Thank you very
much.



Joe Bower

Model Chairman, Maryland and Pennsylvania Railroad Historical Society.



_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Richard Hendrickson
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 12:32 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Freight Car Trucks Article Published





Some STMFC members have seen the clinic I've presented at Naperville, Cocoa
Beach, and other meetings covering prototype freight car trucks from 1900 to
about 1960. An expanded version of that clinic has now been published in the
May issue of the on-line magazine Model Railroad Hobbyist, which came out
this morning. It is extensively illustrated and will, I think, answer most
of the questions modelers are likely to have about plain journal trucks. It
also includes the web address for a companion article on HO scale freight
car trucks, which I will update from time to time as new trucks come on the
market. Take a look at the latest issue of MRH and, if you have questions or
comments, let me know.

Richard Hendrickson

Re: Stock car hours

Don Strack
 

On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Anthony Thompson <
thompson@...> wrote:

Chuck Peck wrote:
While the topic of stock cars is active, when did the 28 hours on-car
period start and end? I can imagine it taking several hours to load a train
. . .

Each car had its own loading time, which had to be shown on the waybill.
The clock started when the first animals entered the car. And BTW, the
28-hour rule could be waived by the shipper to a 36-hour interval. If the
shipper chose this, it too was shown on the waybill.

I found this resource at the USDA web site. It points to a PDF for USDA
Bulletin No. 589, dated January 5, 1918. The 25-page bulletin is a summary
of the requirements of the 1906 law and includes drawings of recommended
resting facilities.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/legislat/28hour1918.pdf

Of course, my own interest is for anything that happened in Utah, and it
was at Ogden that UP, SP, and D&RGW interchanged livestock. The first
facility in Ogden was a corral jointly owned by Oregon Short Line and Rio
Grande Western. Completed in 1898, it continued to grow until it was
competing for space among the roundhouses and car shops of Union Pacific
and Southern Pacific. In April 1917, a new Ogden Union Stock Yards was
opened for business. Located across the Weber River west of the old stock
yard, it was owned by Ogden Packing & Provisioning Co., which was purchased
in 1924 by American Packing & Provisioning Co., a large interstate
corporation that controlled the slaughter and sale of livestock products,
mostly beef and sheep. In 1935, a federal court ordered the breakup of this
monopoly, and in 1936 Ogden Union Stock yards was sold to Denver Union
Stock Yards. The facility grew and continued in operation throughout the
late 1950s and 1960s as trucks took over the transportation of livestock.
Ogden Union Stock Yards finally closed in 1970.

Ogden had 356 pens for all livestock, and 214 low pens for hogs only. The
yards had 19 loading chutes for single-deck cars and 14 loading chutes for
either single-deck or double-deck cars. In comparison, facilities at Denver
were roughly three times the size of those at Ogden, with 1,000 pens and 79
loading chutes. Ogden was the largest stock yards west of Denver.

The peak year for numbers of animals was 1945, with almost 1.8 million head
of sheep, 300,000 head of cattle, and 350,000 hogs. The year 1945 was also
the peak year for livestock-related rail traffic, with 20,000 cars of
sheep, 19,000 cars of cattle, and 6,000 cars of hogs being either unloaded
at Ogden, or loaded after sale, or re-loaded after the prescribed five-hour
rest period. Sheep and the processing of lamb and mutton was the reason
Swift & Co. purchased the American Packing & Provisioning Co.'s plant in
Ogden in 1949. The Swift plant in Ogden furnished almost all of that
company's lamb and mutton meat for Eastern markets.

Don Strack

Re: Train Miniature

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., "pullmanboss" <pullmanboss@...> wrote:

In the dim recesses of my memory I have this notion that Ted's given name was Francis. Francis E. "Ted" Hollow. ???

Thomas C. "Tom" Madden
Of the three men I'se known during my lifetime named Francis, only one had the stones to go by that name; everyone called him Franny. The other two went by Bill and Buddy. If Francis E. Hollow's middle name was Edward, he could very well just chosen to go by Ted.

I remember discovering TM cars about '67 or '68. I never heard that they were undersize (which they are not)but recall that they were always a buck or so more expensive than the "blue box" alternative, which was significant for a high school kid.

No model railroad product has ever sold too many... one could always use more sales. Even with the use of common components like floors, the TM line built a lot of tooling, costing a lot of bucks, in a relatively short period, and when dealing with a finite market, this tends to cannibalize the sales on the earlier items, leading to disappointment.

Biggest disappointment to me was AHM, TM, and MDC all followed Irv's lead with the operable doors with oversize tracks, especially the lower track. It took another decade for manufacturers to decide that appearance trumps play value, and that you can't have both (although Kadee did a nice job of it on the N scale PS-1, but then patented the door retainer system). Anyway, as soon as one decided they couldn't live with these tracks, it was time to put the TM cars on the swap table, because revising the doors was more trouble than they were worth.

Dennis Storzek

Re: Train Miniature

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Al Westerfield wrote:
I can remember the first TM cars I ever saw, at a hobby shop in Beacon, NY. I bought all that the dealer had. For their time they were wonderful. One of the reasons I got into the business was that I couldn't bear to see all of those cars rolling by with the same height and length. -
Well said, Al. I too remember these cars as a revelation when they appeared: a whole bunch of DIFFERENT cars. That the TM folks mixed and matched (in some cases) roofs, ends and sides that had no prototype, or that every house car had the identical underframe, didn't seem so important then. After all, we were used to living with the Athearn "mirror image" brake gear on THEIR underframes . . .

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Re: Train Miniature

Bob Chapman
 

Yes, the Train Miniature boxcars were passable for their day, and not so much today. But there's an exception -- the T-M PS-3 hopper. With improved detailing such as wire grabs, slope sheet braces, train line, heap shields, etc., it blends well with today's state of the art, and if you need a some PS-3's, it's still the only game in town.

Bob Chapman

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Stock car hours

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Chuck Peck wrote:
While the topic of stock cars is active, when did the 28 hours on-car period start and end? I can imagine it taking several hours to load a train . . .
Each car had its own loading time, which had to be shown on the waybill. The clock started when the first animals entered the car. And BTW, the 28-hour rule could be waived by the shipper to a 36-hour interval. If the shipper chose this, it too was shown on the waybill.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Stock cars on the UP in Wyoming...1949

Mikebrock
 

I did a quick look at the loaded stock cars running between Laramie and Rawlins, WY, in March/April 1949. The results are a bit surprising.

1. Of the 34 frt trains listed there were 10 trains carrying loaded stock cars.

2. All but one train is westbound.

3. There were 106 loaded stock cars located in 10 trains.

4. 34 stock cars were located in one train, 42 in another and 22 in another.

5. 8 cars were foreign, 98 were UP.

6.Foreign cars were 2 CB&Q, 1 CGW, 1 SP, 3 unknown [ #324, 325, 325 ] appear to have a 3 letter name beginning with "C", and 1 B&O.

7. Loads were 65 cattle, 15 hogs, 24 sheep, 2 horses.

8. Even though, in 1953, Omaha was the largest cattle market in the world [ according to a 1953 TV documentary Omaha: Rail Metropolis On The Plains produced by Mark I Video and, it contains a starting sequence with a 4-12-2 with actual sound ], all but one load is WESTBOUND.

9. The eastbound car is the B&O.

Mike Brock

Re: Post War Stock Cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Mark Rickert wrote:
That's why the invented the reefer. The packers could Slaughter the meat out west and just ship the valuable parts and no 28 hour rule to worry about. It seemed the IC stock car fleet dropped about as fast if not faster than the steam locomotive fleet as the loading switched off "on the hoof" to "on the hook".
Good summary, Mark, except this happened in the 1880s, led by Gustavus Swift and his colleagues.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Re: Train Miniature

 

Thanks to everyone who responded to my question. My John Galt Line had over
100 TM cars because they and MDC were the only shake-the-box kits that were
suitable for my era. Because I needed about 350 car to run the layout
properly, I couldn't afford the time to build wood kits or scratch build but
a portion of the fleet. All of this came to mind the other day as I opened
another storage box to sell more stuff on eBay. Of the 10 models I pulled
out, 8 were TM.

I can remember the first TM cars I ever saw, at a hobby shop
in Beacon, NY. I bought all that the dealer had. For their time they were
wonderful. One of the reasons I got into the business was that I couldn't
bear to see all of those cars rolling by with the same height and length. -
Al Westerfield



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Re: Train Miniature

Charlie Vlk
 

Train-Miniature was also an innovator in Model Railroad Marketing.



They, for a while, had a regular predictable new product release program
with point-of-sale merchandising packaging.


As far as I know the only ones that have had any success since were
Micro-Trains (with their monthly program) and to a lesser degree Model Die
Casting with their HO and N Scale kit program in the 90's.



Charlie Vlk